Motor wires cut

[RandyatBBY]

I have a Leopard motor that the customer cut the wires, any one know how to fix? I Had a Hacker many years ago and I did the same thing to it and had to send the motor back to Hacker to be striped and re soldered. I was wondering if there was some one with the information that I could do it my self with the right solder.

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[stadiumyamaha]

Can you not just put bullets on it the way it is?

[stadiumyamaha]

It's hard to see in the pic but are the wire cut close to the motor?

[SweetAccord]

Ugh! You need to have the right length of the factory spec. I think you know that hence why you are asking. The way brushless motors work is that if they have bullets on them like a Tenshock, you can have any length wire on it. When a brushless motor has the lines go into the motor they have to be the right length as the length is used as a resistance for the signal line. Hopefully someone has the same motor and give you the exact correct length and or if Leopard can provide the info. Good luck!

[RandyatBBY]

Ugh! You need to have the right length of the factory spec. I think you know that hence why you are asking. The way brushless motors work is that if they have bullets on them like a Tenshock, you can have any length wire on it. When a brushless motor has the lines go into the motor they have to be the right length as the length is used as a resistance for the signal line. Hopefully someone has the same motor and give you the exact correct length and or if Leopard can provide the info. Good luck!

That sounds correct.

Can you not just put bullets on it the way it is?

No I do not think l so

It's hard to see in the pic but are the wire cut close to the motor?

Doubble click on the picture and you will be able to see better.

[JimClark]

will they not take solder? Somewhere on the board or RR I remember a thread about getting rid of the coating on the strands to allow solder to stick

[RandyatBBY]

will they not take solder? Somewhere on the board or RR I remember a thread about getting rid of the coating on the strands to allow solder to stick

I have not tried yet, I wanted more info. I did have a Pro motor that I had to clean the varnish off to get a good solder but the wires were not cut. I think we talked about it then a little.

[T.S.Davis]

Randy, it's shellac or lacquer or something on each strand...........I think. There is a way to strip some off but I don't remember how either. I know it's a pain in the butt. Wonder if sulfuric acid would work. Totally guessing.

[Fluid]

I am not familiar with the large Leopards, but if the wires exiting the can are extensions of the windings - and they are on most BL motors - then they are coated with lacquer and solder will not stick. There two ways to solder on bullets - either scrape off all the lacquer on every strand of wire with a sharp knife, or use a 'solder pot' to melt off all the lacquer. A soldering iron just won't work, especially on those thick wires. Get them hot enough to burn off the lacquer and you risk causing a short in the motor windings. Most acids will attack the copper wire while it's dissolving the lacquer. That's how printed circuit boards are made. If the wires are soldered onto the windings like on Castle motors, then no problem.

The lengths of wires on the motor are certainly not critical - neither the motor or the ESC knows if the wire length from the ESC to the motor windings is on one side of the plug or the other! All they care about is the total length from the windings. Otherwise it would make a big difference to the ESC how long the ESC wires are - which within limits it does not. The shorter the wire from the motor to the ESC the better - I have plugged the connectors on the motor wires directly into Schulze controller boards and set SAW records - but usually anything under 4 inches is fine.


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[cacofonix]

hi there

i have asked this question to Leopard during summer
because a customer (i'm selling Leopard in france) cut the wires
and esc burnt during next run.

Leopard answer me that solder bullet on cutted wires is very difficult
due to coating.

the only solution is to take each small wires one by one, and remove coating with thin blade

i agree that wires lenght is not critical

herve

[RandyatBBY]

I am not familiar with the large Leopards, but if the wires exiting the can are extensions of the windings - and they are on most BL motors - then they are coated with lacquer and solder will not stick. There two ways to solder on bullets - either scrape off all the lacquer on every strand of wire with a sharp knife, or use a 'solder pot' to melt off all the lacquer. A soldering iron just won't work, especially on those thick wires. Get them hot enough to burn off the lacquer and you risk causing a short in the motor windings. Most acids will attack the copper wire while it's dissolving the lacquer. That's how printed circuit boards are made. If the wires are soldered onto the windings like on Castle motors, then no problem.

The lengths of wires on the motor are certainly not critical - neither the motor or the ESC knows if the wire length from the ESC to the motor windings is on one side of the plug or the other! All they care about is the total length from the windings. Otherwise it would make a big difference to the ESC how long the ESC wires are - which within limits it does not. The shorter the wire from the motor to the ESC the better - I have plugged the connectors on the motor wires directly into Schulze controller boards and set SAW records - but usually anything under 4 inches is fine.


.

Interesting, thanks Jay. I would like to do it my self. I have a email in to leopard to see what they say.

hi there

i have asked this question to Leopard during summer
because a customer (i'm selling Leopard in france) cut the wires
and esc burnt during next run.

Leopard answer me that solder bullet on cutted wires is very difficult
due to coating.

the only solution is to take each small wires one by one, and remove coating with thin blade

i agree that wires lenght is not critical

herve

This had done the same thing to my customers ESC. It is now fixed

[Jason4636]

I learn something new everyday on this forum. I had cut my motor wires, and didn't think nothing about it. There's only about 1" of wire hanging out the back. I've only ran it one time. But I didn't fry my esc. Should I get another motor?

[egneg]

Put some brake fluid in a shallow dish and suspend the motor wires for 24 hours or so. The brake fluid will slowly dissolve the coating and not harm the wires.

[RandyatBBY]

Put some brake fluid in a shallow dish and suspend the motor wires for 24 hours or so. The brake fluid will slowly dissolve the coating and not harm the wires.

Ya brake fluid does eat paint

[AndyKunz]

Ugh! You need to have the right length of the factory spec. I think you know that hence why you are asking. The way brushless motors work is that if they have bullets on them like a Tenshock, you can have any length wire on it. When a brushless motor has the lines go into the motor they have to be the right length as the length is used as a resistance for the signal line. Hopefully someone has the same motor and give you the exact correct length and or if Leopard can provide the info. Good luck!

No, that's not right at all. They can be any length.

As for the coating, it's probably a high-temp enamel-coated magnet wire that you're dealing with. The high temp stuff is really REALLY hard to get off; the best bet is to scrape each and every strand. It's a lot of tedious work.

Randy, if it were me, I'd tell them they just destroyed their motor. It's a LOT of time you could spend doing something more useful.

Andy

[ray schrauwen]

I thought if you had a solder pot hot enough and dipped the ends in until they all tinned up but, you don't have a solder pot.

After all, I hardly think they have asians stripping the insulation off one strand at a time in the factory. I'll ask my bro if he has a solder pot and if I can try it out.

I'm pretty sure thats how they do it in the factory unless Andy or others know better...

[AndyKunz]

The high-temp stuff doesn't come off in a solder pot with lead solder either. It's HIGH temp to withstand motor heat. I've tried several times.

The stuff in brushed motors was usually OK, but the BL motors they seem to have figured out that they needed hotter stuff.

In a factory it's done with a abrasive system. I used to operate one for my father's electronics factory.

Andy

[ray schrauwen]

Thats why I pass the torch to you Andy. You know your stuff.

[kevinpratt823]

Small wire wheel on a dremel would probably clean it off.

[viper1]

Solder the wires on an aspirine, works a treat. recently I had the same problem and didn't believe it at first.... make sure you have plenty of ventilation though !!
It will eat the insulation but won't harm the copper.

[BHChieftain]

I thought if you had a solder pot hot enough and dipped the ends in until they all tinned up but, you don't have a solder pot.

After all, I hardly think they have asians stripping the insulation off one strand at a time in the factory. I'll ask my bro if he has a solder pot and if I can try it out.

I'm pretty sure thats how they do it in the factory unless Andy or others know better...

I recently saw a "How It's Made" show where they documented how brushless motors are manufactured.
During manufacturing, raw copper wires are wound around the stators. After the winding is complete, then the entire assembly is dipped in laquer except for the ends of the leads.

Chief

[ray schrauwen]

I wonder how that works? Keeping the wires insulated from each other??? Must be something I'm missing. I'll check out that episode.

[egneg]

It's called magnet wire and is coated before it is wound. Once it is wound they will dip it to add to the strength and insulation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnet_wire

[drwayne]

I recently saw a "How It's Made" show where they documented how brushless motors are manufactured.
During manufacturing, raw copper wires are wound around the stators. After the winding is complete, then the entire assembly is dipped in laquer except for the ends of the leads.

Chief

The 'RAW copper wire' winding is a narration fubar !
Meant to say something akin to 'Pure copper wire with insulation still pliable as it's wound to stators.. cures 24+hrs '
.. at least the stuff we use works that way !

brushless motor cable length can be almost any length, so long as all the same !.. same resistance seen by esc.

+1 for Ray's comment..shorter is better.

Phenolic acid will strip lacquer/epoxy/2pak coating from anything..
be scared, be very scared !
Dip the wires every hr or so.. .. air aids product degradation
Rinse in a small bath of tri-chloro phosphate to neutralize the acid when done

gloves, glasses, and tell someone what you're doing before you start...

We pour this stuff onto submersibles to remove paint and debris to allow weld/xray work to Aluminum/SSteel.

Do not use on/near Fg/Cf/Kv hull .. it will go soft !

W

[LuckyDuc]

Here's a similar thread with good info as well: https://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/...igy-motor.Help

I've had good luck with a 280 watt iron and 60/40 solder. I put the motor and wire in a glass of water with 1/2" of the wire ends sticking out of the water and hit the ends with the BIG iron and they tinned after 5 seconds.

[longballlumber]

Here's a similar thread with good info as well: https://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/...igy-motor.Help

I've had good luck with a 280 watt iron and 60/40 solder. I put the motor and wire in a glass of water with 1/2" of the wire ends sticking out of the water and hit the ends with the BIG iron and they tinned after 5 seconds.

Holly Balls Kewley,

Does that thing dim your house light when you plug it in?

[T.S.Davis]

That thing makes my old 80w hammer head look like a toy.

[SweetAccord]

I still stand by what I said for a few reasons, timing mostly, I could be wrong in that it's not enough here to make a difference.

On some brushless motors the wire leads are actually the magnet wire used in the windings. The magnet wire has insulation on each of the strands which would prevent solder from sticking to the wires when soldering the connector back on the shortened wire. This is why there is a warning in the CC manual stating for example to not shorten the wires. Directly from their manual:

"DO NOT CUT any part of the wire length from any other motor, regardless of brand or type. In most cases, only the last 1/4 inch or so of most motor wires is able to be soldered . If they are clipped shorter you may not be able to solder the remaining portion of the wire and the motor will not run properly"

If you must then you can desolder one of the connectors and look at the wire to see if it is normal wire or if there is insulation on it further down. The other test is to see if the wire is stiff -- then its a magnet wire or flexable which normal wire.

You also need to make sure the leads are of the the same lenght or you will have timing problems. MUST keep them the same length, since that is how the sensorless brushless controller keeps track of the motor position since these are not sensor type motors. I know some esc's don't care for the emf of the motor to know the timing as the motor is already preset internally with the timing mechanically like the Novaks. Other sensorless controllers are capable of measuring winding saturation caused by the position of the magnets to infer the rotor position.

The way brushless motors work (non sensor) is the back EMF voltage that the motor produces that is used by the esc for timing, there are no manufacture specs on how much more shorter you are to cut than how they already come from the factory. Personally I keep them factory length to not affect the timing. There is a reason why they are a length they are, but have not done any testing (never had to) to see if doing so would affect the timing between the ESC and the motor. Hopefully it works out and the timing is not effected.

[RandyatBBY]

I got this email this morning.

Thank you for choose LeopardHobby motor.

In regards to your problem, could you send me a picture about the wires?

One of our other customer have this question before. If the wire is not very short, you could buy golden plug and solder by yourself. However, if the wire is too short to solder, then it can only replace the coil. You could return it for us for free maintenance, just kindly note, the spare part will be charged if necessary.

Thanks and look forward to your reply!


Best Regards,
Angela

[SweetAccord]

Good news!!