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Thread: Cap banks - the pre-emptive answer

  1. #61
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    OK, so one of these would be ok to replace the broken one ?

    47pf1KVdc.jpg

    Do they go on one way ore another ore is it same same ?

    Now to find one localy
    Drammen rock City

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by drwayne View Post
    That's rooted, mate !
    hahaha
    I hope someone with a T180 can supply us with the details as embossed on their undead Surface mount capacitors .... ??

    That being said.. a 47pf ceramic cap would do nicely as an alternative.. ensure the existing remnant(s) are removed before you add new.





    Very pleased to spoon feed information to an appreciative audience, Steven.

    0¿0

    W
    Great thread Wayne. A side note on the ceramic caps. I did alot of testing a year and change back, a few observations with some input from Rubicon.

    Ceramic, or solid caps last only 1/3rd the life of the newer film variety for our applications, high voltage, fast discharge. Not good for ceramic type caps.
    When they "burn out" they turn to powder inside or simply dead short and do not explode or bulge as the fluid/film do most times. When you lose one you will have to test your bank to find it the majority of the time.
    They DO NOT have the same high performance at high discharge that film does, at lower constant voltage apps, computer mobos, power supplies, tv, stereos, they rule over film caps.
    To match the performance of a film cap the engineer said the solid caps would need to be much larger verse a film cap. The next question was what is the comparison for our applications, he said there is none. The two types could have close to the same numbers but in our applications the solids will always fail first.
    DO NOT mix solid and film caps, even if specs are the same (which would be rare).

    I spoke with an engineer at Rubicon least year and change ago and to get a ceramic/solid cap working like the film caps out currently would be cost prohibitive, pennies on the dollar to test and manufacture for the regular types compared to 9-25 bucks per cap to meet our applications.

    **Rubicon Engineer** "Why do you guys do that anyway?" Reference FE boating.

  3. #63
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    Surface mounted caps are available from some of the larger online sellers such as jamesco. You need to know what you want as thy are not marked. Are you sure it is a cap and not a resistor?
    http://www.jameco.com/1/1/23404-1206...ount-1206.html

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by stractor View Post
    Surface mounted caps are available from some of the larger online sellers such as jamesco. You need to know what you want as thy are not marked. Are you sure it is a cap and not a resistor?
    http://www.jameco.com/1/1/23404-1206...ount-1206.html
    I don't have a clue, as to why I asked in post 44 what do they do (ore what is it)
    Drammen rock City

  5. #65
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    @grail.
    Ceramics are rated 50 000 hrs in avionics when within spec. Diel's 200k, but then again my shed's 1976 transistor radio still works 24/7 !
    Used within tolerances they're good
    Chopper's youtube link amusingly shows caps outside tolerances.
    '98 almost lost both legs when the ' cap array ' beneath an MRI blew itself to shi.t.
    Lucky me, only lost half.

    The T180 looks outside design tolerances to me, hey !

    However, any high power setup will most likely exceed design expectations of the circuit. All these extra bits we hlue on the outside are done to defer imminent smoke.
    ESC. Encapsulated Smoke Container

    W
    Wayne Schutte PhdCSE BaSE BaEE. Australian, & damn proud of it YOUTUBE
    @ 36" H&M Maritmo twin1512/1800 6S1P 88mph @ 40" drag hydro#1 twin 5692 12S1P .....always for fun @

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by stractor View Post
    Surface mounted caps are available from some of the larger online sellers such as jamesco. You need to know what you want as thy are not marked. Are you sure it is a cap and not a resistor?
    http://www.jameco.com/1/1/23404-1206...ount-1206.html
    Cap
    If resistor it would be a shunt between inputs.
    Or there's a track beneath the smt that feeds into pcb.
    ive not taken the T180 apart to have component sheets.
    W
    Wayne Schutte PhdCSE BaSE BaEE. Australian, & damn proud of it YOUTUBE
    @ 36" H&M Maritmo twin1512/1800 6S1P 88mph @ 40" drag hydro#1 twin 5692 12S1P .....always for fun @

  7. #67
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    I put together 3 cap banks over the weekend.

    I used the FighterCat 5 cap bank board. I used Rubycon 1000 mincro farad caps 35V. The whole this soldered up easily using my weller adjustable iron and 1/16" tip and .030" electrical solder. Usually on PCB (Printed Circuit Boards) one has to be extra careful with the heat or you will lift a trace. These boards seem REALLY robust!

    42" Osprey, 32" Pursuit, 26" Bling Rocket (rescue), Blizzard Rigger, JAE 21FE rigger, Hobby King rigger (RIP)

  8. #68
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    They sound the biz. Are those boards assembled upside down ?
    Show us a pic of the other side, plz.
    W
    ps .. off to work it's 0915 here.. so e patient for my next reply.
    W

    Quote Originally Posted by Basstronics View Post
    I put together 3 cap banks over the weekend.

    I used the FighterCat 5 cap bank board. I used Rubycon 1000 mincro farad caps 35V. The whole this soldered up easily using my weller adjustable iron and 1/16" tip and .030" electrical solder. Usually on PCB (Printed Circuit Boards) one has to be extra careful with the heat or you will lift a trace. These boards seem REALLY robust!

    Wayne Schutte PhdCSE BaSE BaEE. Australian, & damn proud of it YOUTUBE
    @ 36" H&M Maritmo twin1512/1800 6S1P 88mph @ 40" drag hydro#1 twin 5692 12S1P .....always for fun @

  9. #69
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    Sorry they have black heat shrink with silicone on the ends now. I assembled them myself.

    I hope I didnt assemble them wrong, but if I did I can fix... lol
    42" Osprey, 32" Pursuit, 26" Bling Rocket (rescue), Blizzard Rigger, JAE 21FE rigger, Hobby King rigger (RIP)

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by drwayne View Post
    @grail.
    Ceramics are rated 50 000 hrs in avionics when within spec. Diel's 200k, but then again my shed's 1976 transistor radio still works 24/7 !
    Used within tolerances they're good
    Chopper's youtube link amusingly shows caps outside tolerances.
    '98 almost lost both legs when the ' cap array ' beneath an MRI blew itself to shi.t.
    Lucky me, only lost half.

    The T180 looks outside design tolerances to me, hey !

    However, any high power setup will most likely exceed design expectations of the circuit. All these extra bits we hlue on the outside are done to defer imminent smoke.
    ESC. Encapsulated Smoke Container

    W
    It is pretty funny to talk to folks and give specs and they say things "why would you ever do that" or "what are you building that would need that?!" good just to chuckle a bit at the insanity of some setups and attempts at pushing the edge of our hobbies available tech.

  11. #71
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    Looks like circuit tracks beneath the caps is why I ask. Also the leads ontop adds to the thought. Burn and learn, hey !
    Hope Im just confused. W
    Ps I hate tiny touch screen phones, so gard to typ.
    Quote Originally Posted by Basstronics View Post
    Sorry they have black heat shrink with silicone on the ends now. I assembled them myself.

    I hope I didnt assemble them wrong, but if I did I can fix... lol
    Wayne Schutte PhdCSE BaSE BaEE. Australian, & damn proud of it YOUTUBE
    @ 36" H&M Maritmo twin1512/1800 6S1P 88mph @ 40" drag hydro#1 twin 5692 12S1P .....always for fun @

  12. #72
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    My favorite slogan is ' burn and learn'.
    Sometimes to avoid the grief it's helpful to pre-emptively offer the 'why not' scenarios.
    W

    Quote Originally Posted by graill View Post
    It is pretty funny to talk to folks and give specs and they say things "why would you ever do that" or "what are you building that would need that?!" good just to chuckle a bit at the insanity of some setups and attempts at pushing the edge of our hobbies available tech.
    Wayne Schutte PhdCSE BaSE BaEE. Australian, & damn proud of it YOUTUBE
    @ 36" H&M Maritmo twin1512/1800 6S1P 88mph @ 40" drag hydro#1 twin 5692 12S1P .....always for fun @

  13. #73
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    I looked at the boards on Fightercat and they are parallel caps, the dark line is the void between + and - . The actual trace is almost 1/2 the board width, minus the void down the center.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by graill View Post
    Great thread Wayne. A side note on the ceramic caps. I did alot of testing a year and change back, a few observations with some input from Rubicon.

    Ceramic, or solid caps last only 1/3rd the life of the newer film variety for our applications, high voltage, fast discharge. Not good for ceramic type caps.
    When they "burn out" they turn to powder inside or simply dead short and do not explode or bulge as the fluid/film do most times. When you lose one you will have to test your bank to find it the majority of the time.
    They DO NOT have the same high performance at high discharge that film does, at lower constant voltage apps, computer mobos, power supplies, tv, stereos, they rule over film caps.
    To match the performance of a film cap the engineer said the solid caps would need to be much larger verse a film cap. The next question was what is the comparison for our applications, he said there is none. The two types could have close to the same numbers but in our applications the solids will always fail first.
    DO NOT mix solid and film caps, even if specs are the same (which would be rare).

    I spoke with an engineer at Rubicon least year and change ago and to get a ceramic/solid cap working like the film caps out currently would be cost prohibitive, pennies on the dollar to test and manufacture for the regular types compared to 9-25 bucks per cap to meet our applications.

    **Rubicon Engineer** "Why do you guys do that anyway?" Reference FE boating.
    Interesting on the film caps.

    My brother is an audiophile and has tons around, the best in the world too. He knows his Caps and I don't mind using film caps of the right size and value if I knew what size and value to use??
    He would not mind lending me some for testing. They are only about $35 -$50 each

    Once he gets back I'll get some and snap some pics. He gets some custome made, then yer talkin' +$100 a pop.

    I forgot how he always scoffed at manufacturers cheaping out on a great amp design using cheap caps or too many noisey electolytics. Then we modified the hell out of them with film caps and our ears were quite astonished.

    Never thought of using them in this app. because of well, I just don't know?? Maybe because they are polarized??
    Nortavlag Bulc

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by ray schrauwen View Post
    Interesting on the film caps.

    My brother is an audiophile and has tons around, the best in the world too. He knows his Caps and I don't mind using film caps of the right size and value if I knew what size and value to use??
    My favorite amp is filled with glass, copper rails and excited electrons B). None the newer encapsulated smoke variety can compete against the pure aural joy once mine gets warmed up.

    Caps. the correct ones to borrow from Bro' depend upon capacitance, resistance curve / return rates, batt pack discharge survivability, esc load expectations, and how much bang for effort you want. final bank size comes into play too.
    Ive penned several 1P systems shared to large twins that survive anything thrown.. for that 90 secs for oval racing... and a few bitey single systems for sprint or SAW.

    One size does not fit all . despite marketing otherwise.

    That being said, 5000uf is a good start for generic system's esc and pack survival.
    If you seek more output from esc., cooler packs, consistent high voltage flow .. then the additional capacitance needs to be tailored to suit.

    More can be achieved than simple ripple clipping by smothering with cap ballast.

    W
    Wayne Schutte PhdCSE BaSE BaEE. Australian, & damn proud of it YOUTUBE
    @ 36" H&M Maritmo twin1512/1800 6S1P 88mph @ 40" drag hydro#1 twin 5692 12S1P .....always for fun @

  16. #76
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    Question on soldering caps, ok.--- I noticed my turnigy 120 caps were 390-35v which i think are to small. I took the 2 caps off and replaced with 470-35v but my question is , can i twist 2 cap + wires together and solder to + side of esc. Next take the same caps-2 wires and twist and solder to - side of esc . Info asap before i use esc. To hot today for boating 93+ oh yes thanks.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by FRED View Post
    Question on soldering caps, ok.--- I noticed my turnigy 120 caps were 390-35v which i think are to small. I took the 2 caps off and replaced with 470-35v but my question is , can i twist 2 cap + wires together and solder to + side of esc. Next take the same caps-2 wires and twist and solder to - side of esc . Info asap before i use esc. To hot today for boating 93+ oh yes thanks.
    Yes... so long those 'twisted' leads make sufficient contact the esc input rails, thats ok.
    Do make sure the replacements are low esr with high temp survivability else they'll be 'rooted' very quick.
    Wayne Schutte PhdCSE BaSE BaEE. Australian, & damn proud of it YOUTUBE
    @ 36" H&M Maritmo twin1512/1800 6S1P 88mph @ 40" drag hydro#1 twin 5692 12S1P .....always for fun @

  18. #78
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    Thanks Wayne. When bro gets back from Phillipeans I'll ask him to help me out with the values and bounce your info off his.

    Sounds good. What brands have you played with or think would be sufficient? I know he has used WonderCaps with audio PS's in the past but, I never kept an ear of what he's been using the last 10 years.
    Nortavlag Bulc

  19. #79
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    So today I got my small caps in the mail.
    I got some 22 / 47 / 101 /221, they did not cost a thing.

    I also got an answer from support at hobbyking, were I was asking the value on those small ones. The reply was that I could replace them with caps with 30v.
    Since I don't know much about caps I thought maybe they were talking about the big ones, wich I'm replacing withe the ose etti cap bank anyway.
    So I sent a mail to were I bought the small ones,asking the V range and heat range, but they have not reply's as of yet. Maybe some of you can help me out (wayne)
    before I start soldering.

    Also, can I cut the 'legs' to make them shorter ore will it affect the value/performance of the cap ?
    Should I replace all with new ones, ore can I just try changing the damaged one first ?

    The etti bank, best to fit it onto the esc ore can I have a short wire between? Not sure I have the head room in the geico if I solder it onto the speed controller.

    thanks
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Drammen rock City

  20. #80
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    Hi
    The original capacitors were rated as ?uf and ?V
    HK have suggested you use 30V with original uf .. this is what I understand from your post here
    The etti caps are a good replacement for the originals.. forget what HK have said !
    The etti cap bank circuit board has holes for +ve and for -ve power wires.. make the esc wires go through that hole.. trim some cover from each wire so you can solder to it... use the wire that goes through the board to connect to battery.
    Keep the cap bank close to the esc.. within 30mm is best.
    "small" esc like the T180 will work okay with the onboard replaced by a much larger external bank

    Id not like to see this 'cheat' on high voltage or high A esc as this creates issues with emf

    regs
    Wayne

    Quote Originally Posted by maxmekker View Post
    So today I got my small caps in the mail.
    I got some 22 / 47 / 101 /221, they did not cost a thing.

    I also got an answer from support at hobbyking, were I was asking the value on those small ones. The reply was that I could replace them with caps with 30v.
    Since I don't know much about caps I thought maybe they were talking about the big ones, wich I'm replacing withe the ose etti cap bank anyway.
    So I sent a mail to were I bought the small ones,asking the V range and heat range, but they have not reply's as of yet. Maybe some of you can help me out (wayne)
    before I start soldering.

    Also, can I cut the 'legs' to make them shorter ore will it affect the value/performance of the cap ?
    Should I replace all with new ones, ore can I just try changing the damaged one first ?

    The etti bank, best to fit it onto the esc ore can I have a short wire between? Not sure I have the head room in the geico if I solder it onto the speed controller.

    thanks
    Wayne Schutte PhdCSE BaSE BaEE. Australian, & damn proud of it YOUTUBE
    @ 36" H&M Maritmo twin1512/1800 6S1P 88mph @ 40" drag hydro#1 twin 5692 12S1P .....always for fun @

  21. #81
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    yes sir. The new small ones, I still waiting on reply as to if they are above 30v. Hope so :-)

    you told me a 47 pf would be enough on that 180 some post's back, I asked Hobbyking but they use 5 day's answer so I just got some, then they answer,and say 30v ore above :-) I will see tomorrow if the caps I got are usable.
    Drammen rock City

  22. #82
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    Hi
    The 47pf are toreplace the surface mounted caps that were damaged in one the pics above.. you still need the larger capacitors... although the etti cap bank can serve in their place...
    you will still need the 47pf on the esc board to aid the system.
    W.

    Quote Originally Posted by maxmekker View Post
    yes sir. The new small ones, I still waiting on reply as to if they are above 30v. Hope so :-)

    you told me a 47 pf would be enough on that 180 some post's back, I asked Hobbyking but they use 5 day's answer so I just got some, then they answer,and say 30v ore above :-) I will see tomorrow if the caps I got are usable.
    Wayne Schutte PhdCSE BaSE BaEE. Australian, & damn proud of it YOUTUBE
    @ 36" H&M Maritmo twin1512/1800 6S1P 88mph @ 40" drag hydro#1 twin 5692 12S1P .....always for fun @

  23. #83
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    etti banks use 35V 1000uf x 6.
    Wayne Schutte PhdCSE BaSE BaEE. Australian, & damn proud of it YOUTUBE
    @ 36" H&M Maritmo twin1512/1800 6S1P 88mph @ 40" drag hydro#1 twin 5692 12S1P .....always for fun @

  24. #84
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    So it's ready for testing. Not exactly nasa stuff but it should hold up. The etti board was just a tad narrow to fit on my 180 board so I had to make some wires.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Drammen rock City

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    DSC_0642.jpgDSC_0641.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by tlandauer View Post
    Question: I plan to add cap bank to Seaking 180 ESC, I bought this one: http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pro...i-e041&cat=136. The recommended installation is to open up/strip the power wire near the base board and solder the + and - notches onto the wire. That will be difficult in my case, can I open up the power wires at the same location but instead solder two short ( very short , no more than 30 mm) wires and then attach them to the + and - notches on the cap bank?
    Attached are photos of the newest version of the T-180 as I recieved it just a few weeks back. It now includes this little external bank of 4 capacitors wired in series across the battery leads. Notice the small gauge wire.Don't know what this brings to the table but my other T-180's do not have this bank.

    Dave

  26. #86
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    They sell a 63V version that Maxmekker installed. Maybe a typo Wayne or do they have a 35V version too??
    Quote Originally Posted by drwayne View Post
    etti banks use 35V 1000uf x 6.
    Nortavlag Bulc

  27. #87
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    Looks more like parrellel to me unless you took off the heat shrink off the caps???

    Quote Originally Posted by 1945dave View Post
    DSC_0642.jpgDSC_0641.jpg

    Attached are photos of the newest version of the T-180 as I recieved it just a few weeks back. It now includes this little external bank of 4 capacitors wired in series across the battery leads. Notice the small gauge wire.Don't know what this brings to the table but my other T-180's do not have this bank.

    Dave
    Nortavlag Bulc

  28. #88
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    It looked like it was going to fit.... but, should work the way it is. I'm sure you will insulate the bare wires??

    Quote Originally Posted by maxmekker View Post
    So it's ready for testing. Not exactly nasa stuff but it should hold up. The etti board was just a tad narrow to fit on my 180 board so I had to make some wires.
    Nortavlag Bulc

  29. #89
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    I think it is wired in parallel, the small gauge wire suggests the maker does not bother to go the extra mile to include higher wire ga. However, as drwayne said earlier, efficiency is the main goal, I used 12ga wire to attach the cap bank, looks just like what maxmekker did to his T180. I did however replace the three caps that were originally on the ESC with identical ones bought here @ OSE.
    I ran the same set up and everything was cool, the cap bank was barely 100* and so were the three caps on the ESC, the boat however suffered a flip and is down for the week while I do repairs to the FG hull, will report back, so far running with the added cap bank has really cooled things down.

  30. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by ray schrauwen View Post
    It looked like it was going to fit.... but, should work the way it is. I'm sure you will insulate the bare wires??
    just with some tape now. 2 set's of lipo's charged, and if it works, temps/speed etc are good, I will sit down and do a better job. soon to cold and dark here in Norway to do boating anyway,( when sept hit's it's like a switch, chilly and early dark)
    but I have some fresh 65-130c 5000 lipo's just in the door I want to try out.
    Drammen rock City

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