Seaking 180A ESC CAPS bulging!

[tlandauer]

I got carried away a bit today after my MG ran well for the first time (riding pads were trued).
Set up is Leopard 4082/2200kv, 4s2p, m445.
The three original caps are bulged, can I just desolder them and put new ones on? http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pro...k-cap-35v-1000 and even add an extra bank?
Anyone done this? Is the ESC toasted? When I brought the boat in it was still working, temp was on the hight side, 138* on the heat sink and caps were at 168* I always time my run, today was stupid.

[SirBudman32]

I have a Hobby King T-180 (Same as Seaking) And thats what I did to mine. One of my caps swelled up, took all 3 off and put on new ones. No biggie.

[tlandauer]

Thanks, SirBudman32. Will do just that.

[1945dave]

I agree this is no biggie as SirBudman stated. But I have a question. Why are your temps so high using a M445 on 4S, are you sure your water cooling is proper? Your stated setup seems fine and I have to think something else is part of this story. The caps themselves don't work all that hard but they do not handle heat very well. The Seaking 180 is pretty tough. To answer your original question go ahead and replace all of the caps and even add a few more.

Dave

[Rumdog]

all depends on driving style. continuous on/off, or partial throttle will heat em up pretty quick.

[1945dave]

all depends on driving style. continuous on/off, or partial throttle will heat em up pretty quick.

I have pretty much the same setup and I have never had temp readings like these. wonder what motor timing he is using. I was told to not run 15 degrees on my Leo 4082 to run around 10 and I think my program card for the controller only let me set it to 11.25. Perhaps he should lower his timing?

Dave

[Mecka1990]

got a question to on capacitor banks, i got 2x swordfisch 200ams plus esc on a 2x 5s setup with 2x 2075KV 3674 brushless inrunner, 43mm prop, did i need capacitor banks? and is my esc waterproofed? im not sure how to waterproof it

[tlandauer]

all depends on driving style. continuous on/off, or partial throttle will heat em up pretty quick.

This is the only thing that I can think of, I was also running it for a long time, since now I am running 4s2p. the running time is longer . I used to run 4s1p and after 2 or 3 min. the LVC will kick in. This boat used to bounce badly before so that heat was never a problem because all I did was short sprints with long in between Had this for two years and I was very new at the time and put it aside, so really it is the first time I really ran it. Weather is hot, but I would be looking for an excuse if I attribute to that.
Rumdog, thanks for the diagnose!

[tlandauer]

I have pretty much the same setup and I have never had temp readings like these. wonder what motor timing he is using. I was told to not run 15 degrees on my Leo 4082 to run around 10 and I think my program card for the controller only let me set it to 11.25. Perhaps he should lower his timing?

Dave

I will look into the timing, and yes, they only allow 11.25* timing. I was too anxious to see how my new "trued" riding pads worked, forgot everything else, thay's why I said I was stupid.

[Make-a-Wake]

That is odd...............your setup shouldnt have strained a T180. 168* on caps is really nothing to be concerned about in my book..............they are "rated" up to 105*c or roughly 225*f.

The caps are going to be tough to take off as they use some sort of "high grade" solder, i used a dremel and cut mine off, redrilled the little holes and resoldered new ones on, good luck and I'm curious to hear how it goes for you if you try to just desolder them............

[tlandauer]

Will report back, thanks for the heads-up! I was really considering fixing the MG your way---selling it. ( Sorry if I got it wrong, but I seemed to remember you said that once before)

[BHChieftain]

I was having a cap overheating problem-- the ESC and motor were cool, but caps very hot, actually burnt out one of 'em on a seaking 120. It was on an OPC tunnel, 4S on aquacraft 2030kv, x442 prop. Fluid advised me to shorten my ESC leads as much as possible. Problem solved.

Chief

[tlandauer]

Hi Chief,
do you mean the motor to ESC wires or the ESC to batteries wires?

[BHChieftain]

Hi Chief,
do you mean the motor to ESC wires or the ESC to batteries wires?

The ESC-to-battery wires for the caps.

But, it is also a good idea to have as short as possbile ESC-to-Motor, but don't think that affects the cap temps. If you shorten the ESC-to-Motor path, cut the ESC wires and not the motor wires, as some motor wires are very hard to tin for soldering later (they have a coating on them).

Chief

[Make-a-Wake]

Hi Chief,
do you mean the motor to ESC wires or the ESC to batteries wires?

All of them, I even shortened the motor wires on my 1717 so that every wire was a short as possible in the whole setup, reduces heat and cuts down on amp loss.

[oscarel]

The caps are on the input side. This is from Castle Creations site

"CC CapPack is useful in all brushless motor applications, where it serves to give just that little boost needed to overcome ripples in the battery voltage caused by hard acceleration or long battery wires. Remember, ripple voltage is hard on an ESC, adding the CC CapPack can help reduce the load on the controller's on-board capacitors."

Also make sure your lipo's are in good shape. If they sag under load then they will also cause the caps issues.

[tlandauer]

Thanks for all the inputs, I will see if shortening the wires is a possibility. I think it is.
The batteries are relatively new, they are Sky Lipo 4s, 5000mah 40C. I run 4s2p in my Persuit and Lizard Xtreme w/o any issues.( Leopard 4082 2000kv with Seaking 180A.)
I strongly suspect I ran too long and constant on-and-off throttle just to study the attitude of the boat did me in. When I brought her in the batteries had 20% capacity left. I never run below 30% and on 4s2p usually between 40% or 50%. Run time is longer and I rarely exceed 4 min. run per set of lipos.

[silver]

I'm planning also to run my mystic with Leo's 2200kv on the T180 version 3
The props are 447 and the power will be 5s
So I hope this will work planning to hit the water in September
Will be more story's later

[1945dave]

I'm planning also to run my mystic with Leo's 2200kv on the T180 version 3
The props are 447 and the power will be 5s
So I hope this will work planning to hit the water in September
Will be more story's later

Silver, I wish you the best but need to ask you how did you derive your target objectives for a starting point? I am always surprised when someone starts out with a stated target for a new or newly rebuilt setup with a target rpm of 40,000 rpm's. Perhaps you have unlimited funds and perhaps you will be the next SAW record holder but your projected setup would be a 98 mph design before factoring in slip oercentages. At 20 percent slip you are shooting for 78 mph. I am not sure the robust T-180 ESC can hold up to this expectation. Perhaps someone else with more specific information and experience can jump in but I would suggest going easier to start. Try 440 props and watch your temps carefully. Just my limited opinion.

Dave

[Make-a-Wake]

I'm planning also to run my mystic with Leo's 2200kv on the T180 version 3
The props are 447 and the power will be 5s
So I hope this will work planning to hit the water in September
Will be more story's later

I have to agree with Dave, the 2200 is a perfect "4s" motor, 5s is a bit extreme but can and has been used. You're asking for trouble with an x447. I would also recommend the same prop, x440 to start with which is what I did with my Pursuit and the same exact setup.................i even went up to an x442 for just one GPS run to see what she would do, I now have a 4s 4082 setup in it.

Vid of my 5s x442 run

[tlandauer]

That is odd...............your setup shouldnt have strained a T180. 168* on caps is really nothing to be concerned about in my book..............they are "rated" up to 105*c or roughly 225*f.

The caps are going to be tough to take off as they use some sort of "high grade" solder, i used a dremel and cut mine off, redrilled the little holes and resoldered new ones on, good luck and I'm curious to hear how it goes for you if you try to just desolder them............

Thanks Make-a-Wake, I was able to desolder the caps, had a helper holding the ESC while I yanked them away. I was careful not to over heat them. Resoldering was easy. I think the solder has a high melting point which makes it hard to desolder.
I also shortened the wires a bit, wish OSE was open this week so I can add a Cap Bank, maybe later.

[1945dave]

and is my esc waterproofed? im not sure how to waterproof it

Sorry meant to address that mini question and got side tracked. First, in my opinion there is no such thing as a water proof ESC. This is a double edge sword. Many guys spray liquid tape or some such spray on water proofer, with mixed results. Some guys even dunk their ESC into a bottle of some protectant sealer. Still many controllers have a heat shrink tube cover everything except the ends. Then a very good boater on this forum says he uses "Shoe Goo" to seal the ends. Here is the problem. Some parts of the ESC respond well to water proofing and some other areas do not, such as the finned cooling plates. Spray on coatings and worse the dunked coatings seal everything and do sort of protect against water intrusion.....With a trade off of adding a blanket or over coat that retains heat that should be bled off. If you are following me on this think of it this way. The form that the manufacturer provides your ESC is pretty much the best amount of blended features they desire. They usually use a urethane coating on the printed circuit board, with no such coating on the water cooled plate, sometimes finned and some times not. Since this thread started out addressing the Sea King (or Turnigy) T-180 there is no shrink wrap on this particular ESC yet you can see around the plastic base cover a sealent pretty much protecting the inside electrical components from water while the finned water cooling heat sink is not coated in anyway. The three 1000 mf end caps are exposed but do not require water cooling and should not be that sensitive to minor water exposure anyway. Now the newest T-180 version 3 has 4 smaller capacitors shrink wrapped and dangling with light gage wire soldered directly to the incoming battery leads.

Anyway, I don't know if I ansered your question to your satisfaction but realize if you think for your application water risk is higher priority than the concern for heat disapation go ahead anth shrink wrap and shoe goo or spray on tape sealent. Just never use a RTV product that smells like vinigar, if will corrode your electronics. One guy on this forum mounts his T-180 in a very small Tupperware container with the wire pigtails sealed to the exit holes. Totally water proof. Perhaps the only such ESC that I can recall. There are You Tube videos of guys showing their electronics working submerged in a glass of water. So you might understand there are a lot of ways to skin this cat. I just can't tell you the best way.

Dave

[tlandauer]

Sorry meant to address that mini question and got side tracked. First, in my opinion there is no such thing as a water proof ESC. This is a double edge sword. Many guys spray liquid tape or some such spray on water proofer, with mixed results. Some guys even dunk their ESC into a bottle of some protectant sealer. Still many controllers have a heat shrink tube cover everything except the ends. Then a very good boater on this forum says he uses "Shoe Goo" to seal the ends. Here is the problem. Some parts of the ESC respond well to water proofing and some other areas do not, such as the finned cooling plates. Spray on coatings and worse the dunked coatings seal everything and do sort of protect against water intrusion.....With a trade off of adding a blanket or over coat that retains heat that should be bled off. If you are following me on this think of it this way. The form that the manufacturer provides your ESC is pretty much the best amount of blended features they desire. They usually use a urethane coating on the printed circuit board, with no such coating on the water cooled plate, sometimes finned and some times not. Since this thread started out addressing the Sea King (or Turnigy) T-180 there is no shrink wrap on this particular ESC yet you can see around the plastic base cover a sealent pretty much protecting the inside electrical components from water while the finned water cooling heat sink is not coated in anyway. The three 1000 mf end caps are exposed but do not require water cooling and should not be that sensitive to minor water exposure anyway. Now the newest T-180 version 3 has 4 smaller capacitors shrink wrapped and dangling with light gage wire soldered directly to the incoming battery leads.

Anyway, I don't know if I ansered your question to your satisfaction but realize if you think for your application water risk is higher priority than the concern for heat disapation go ahead anth shrink wrap and shoe goo or spray on tape sealent. Just never use a RTV product that smells like vinigar, if will corrode your electronics. One guy on this forum mounts his T-180 in a very small Tupperware container with the wire pigtails sealed to the exit holes. Totally water proof. Perhaps the only such ESC that I can recall. There are You Tube videos of guys showing their electronics working submerged in a glass of water. So you might understand there are a lot of ways to skin this cat. I just can't tell you the best way.

Dave

Dave, that is really insightful, it is always refreshing to read something you think you already know with a different perspective. If I may relate my persoal experience with the Seaking (T)-180 ESC, I had it once submerged in water for 30 min. while trying to tow my half sunken FastTech back, besides some corrosion on the wireleads ( they turn green with batteries connected under water.) The ESC was fine, I am still using it, The sealent aroung the square plastic case worked in THIS CASE.( no pund intented) BUT, I remember reading another post saying it did not work because moisture was inside, so it is not fool prove, all depends how well the assembler sealed it.

[1945dave]

all depends how well the assembler sealed it.

Good point and that probably would suggest that I should boost my sealent protection with an additional glob of aquarium sealent all the way around just to be sure. Yes, I think I will do that now.

Thanks,

Dave

[silver]

Silver, I wish you the best but need to ask you how did you derive your target objectives for a starting point? I am always surprised when someone starts out with a stated target for a new or newly rebuilt setup with a target rpm of 40,000 rpm's. Perhaps you have unlimited funds and perhaps you will be the next SAW record holder but your projected setup would be a 98 mph design before factoring in slip oercentages. At 20 percent slip you are shooting for 78 mph. I am not sure the robust T-180 ESC can hold up to this expectation. Perhaps someone else with more specific information and experience can jump in but I would suggest going easier to start. Try 440 props and watch your temps carefully. Just my limited opinion.

Dave

Hello Make-a-wake and Dave, thanks for the input.
I’m bout my boat last year with those engines included, after that I’m started to read a lot on the forum
That I just made read that a lot of people had some different setups; I’m not planning to go for records just want to have a good and nice run with my boat.
For the moment I didn’t bout some lipo's but maybe it’s a good idée to go for the 4s in place the 5s?
The props I have already, so maybe order an extra set smaller on.
Regards

[Rich]

I to was seeing temps rising, but my wires are long and I am using cheap lipos so i decided to add 3 more caps now I see temps that don't go past 125f:

[tlandauer]

Rich, that is great, may I ask you how they are attached, I mean the extra three are soldered "parallel" to the stock ones? I had another 180ESC which I soldered this http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pro...035-lv&cat=136 on the wire leads, but for this set up your way is perfect, saves a lot of space which I don't have .
Thanks

[ray schrauwen]

Cap King has the 35Vdc 1000Uf RC30 130*C Caps for a great price. I use them to mod the esc like the most recent pic above.

Great caps, ETTI uses them on all thier esc's...

CapKing: http://thecapking.com/35rx1000.html

[1945dave]

but maybe it’s a good idée to go for the 4s in place the 5s?
The props I have already, so maybe order an extra set smaller on.
Regards

Silver we are not saying you can't make this 5S setup work just that starting with 447 props is too heavy to start with. By all means if you have 4S batteries that is a more typical battery configuration for a 2200 kv motor. The general accepted ideal target rpm's to shoot for are 25,000 to 30,000. 5S was setting your target at 40,700 rpm's. 4S is 32,560 and that would be more generally accepted as reasonable. I would go with 4Ss but I am a more conservative type.

Dave

[tlandauer]

Cap King has the 35Vdc 1000Uf RC30 130*C Caps for a great price. I use them to mod the esc like the most recent pic above.

Great caps, ETTI uses them on all thier esc's...

CapKing: http://thecapking.com/35rx1000.html

Thanks so much for the link! I still can't figure out how one add individual ones on though, i know how to add one that is ready made like the Etti or Castle Creations, when you add these do you just put these three paralle to the stock ones or they have to be in series? Am I not thinking correctly as usual?