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Thread: Finally scored one- setting up for NAMBA P-Ltd Cat Sprint race

  1. #1
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    Cool Finally scored one- setting up for NAMBA P-Ltd Cat Sprint race

    Now that there'll be a P-Ltd Cat Sprint class at the FE Nat's this June, I've been experimenting. I set up a MM with a 2030KV AQ; runs 45mph with a M445 (& cooling fan on motor). Runs & handles very well but I picked up a used MC in the swap. After hearing of some production flaws I was apprehensive, but this one is el perfecto beautiful. I had my choice of dropping in the 1800KV AQ motor, but I'm starting out with the 2030 to see if she'll hold sprint race time. Probably begin with the 42/55 but since the MM held the M445 I may give it a cautious try as well with the 2030.

    Glassed the inside of the hatch. Put in a UL-1 rudder and opened up the water inlet some.Had a spare FCR 140A speedy so dropped it in. Has stock flex; tinned the end but will be ordering an upgrade shaft (what's up with the stock shaft ? - heard it has issues) One sponson tip had a slight crunch so a little Formula27 & red tips now. Sponson bottoms not too bad; might blueprint some. Set strut @ 3/32" & level to start.

    Comments/advice welcomed. Will vid & post soon.

    Tony

    DSC03114.JPG DSC03117.JPG DSC03115.JPG

    DSC03116.JPG
    2008 NAMBA P-Mono & P-Offshore Nat'l 2-Lap Record Holder; '15 P-Cat, P-Ltd Cat 2-Lap
    2009/2010 NAMBA P-Sport Hydro Nat'l 2-Lap Record Holder, '13 SCSTA P-Ltd Cat High Points
    '11 NAMBA [P-Ltd] : Mono, Offshore, OPC, Sport Hydro; '06 LSO, '12,'13,'14 P Ltd Cat /Mono

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    Tony,

    You may find that moutning/installing the controller infront of the motor on the other side of the motor mount and rotating the batteries (all connections forward) might be easier to manage. You will end up moving the batteries forward before you move them rearward.

    Later,
    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by longballlumber View Post
    Tony,

    You may find that moutning/installing the controller infront of the motor on the other side of the motor mount and rotating the batteries (all connections forward) might be easier to manage. You will end up moving the batteries forward before you move them rearward.

    Later,
    Mike
    Thanks Mike - I'll give it some thought - I just took the easy way out with the speedy location - I also have a stock 60A AQ speedy I might put in- they have always worked really well 'tho these setups routinley pull 80A + yet the AQ 60A seems to handle it.
    2008 NAMBA P-Mono & P-Offshore Nat'l 2-Lap Record Holder; '15 P-Cat, P-Ltd Cat 2-Lap
    2009/2010 NAMBA P-Sport Hydro Nat'l 2-Lap Record Holder, '13 SCSTA P-Ltd Cat High Points
    '11 NAMBA [P-Ltd] : Mono, Offshore, OPC, Sport Hydro; '06 LSO, '12,'13,'14 P Ltd Cat /Mono

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    Set the hull up on the loose side (lighter weight lipos mounted more rearward and strut angle/depth) for max speed and less strain on motor using the higher kv 2030 motor. Per Grimracer

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    Tony,

    Keep us posted on your progress. It’s fun to see and hear about the boat in use.

    As you all know we had the 2030 out on the market before the Motley Crew. During testing I was just not all that happy with the current draw with the 2030 in the crew. Sure it would have worked but I wanted just a tick more run time and a little less current draw.

    I messed with props and started testing the new 1800 we had been working on in the boat.. BINGO.. just right.. A great balance of speed, power and power consumption.

    I have quite a bit of data logged regarding the testing of the boat.. fun to look back at all the hours of design and testing that went into that boat.

    BTY.. EVERY ASPECT of the hull and hardware were designed and tested here in the US BY ME.. no pulling the wool over the eyes of anybody.. If it sucks.. I TAKE FULL RESPONSIBLITY.. if its fantastic.. the same.. No pointing fingers or any of that BS..
    To bring it to market however adds a ton more people..

    Have fun with the boat tony!.. love the tip paint!


    Grim

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    Mike,

    Thanks for chiming in, always good to hear from you. I figured that the decision to use the 1800 motor in production versions was to afford the sport boaters less amp draw/more run time with the ability to experiment with prop options and stay in the safe zone. For sprints the 2030 with the right prop should be the ticket.

    I'm really jazzed to finally get a MC - It just lights up my workbench. Like my first UL-1, I know I'll get max use/grins from this boat.


    BTW FE Nat's June 6/19 - 6/23 at Legg Lake

    Two Words, Bro : ROAD TRIP
    2008 NAMBA P-Mono & P-Offshore Nat'l 2-Lap Record Holder; '15 P-Cat, P-Ltd Cat 2-Lap
    2009/2010 NAMBA P-Sport Hydro Nat'l 2-Lap Record Holder, '13 SCSTA P-Ltd Cat High Points
    '11 NAMBA [P-Ltd] : Mono, Offshore, OPC, Sport Hydro; '06 LSO, '12,'13,'14 P Ltd Cat /Mono

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    Quote Originally Posted by properchopper View Post
    Mike,

    Thanks for chiming in, always good to hear from you. I figured that the decision to use the 1800 motor in production versions was to afford the sport boaters less amp draw/more run time with the ability to experiment with prop options and stay in the safe zone. For sprints the 2030 with the right prop should be the ticket.

    I'm really jazzed to finally get a MC - It just lights up my workbench. Like my first UL-1, I know I'll get max use/grins from this boat.


    BTW FE Nat's June 6/19 - 6/23 at Legg Lake

    Two Words, Bro : ROAD TRIP
    I suck at FE racing.. I will have to send my hired gun.......... THE SNOWMAN!

    Take care!

    Grim

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    Quote Originally Posted by grimracer View Post
    i will have to send my hired gun.......... The snowman!
    GULP!!

    Hahahaha...
    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

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    Default First run Video & Modifications

    First test on smooth water. Run #1 she bobbed some; moved batt's forward to motor mount & adjusted strut to point nose down a tad. Ran Wet. Moved batt's back @ 2/12" & ran really nice. Hull runs really wet in turns (like gas cats). Did 45.7 mph compared with exact setup on Mean Machine which ran 44.4 (M445) ( I noticed the cooling lines were dry on the first two runs, this run they had water in them-more on that to follow)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKJLl3c3azQ

    I decided that the rudder pickup (rudder from UL-1) was high; I lowered it, installed larger diameter cooling lines, and moved the outlet to the side so I can see output better. [If you want to know how I got the larger diameter hose through the transom & hull side holes, It'll cost 'ya ]

    DSC03143.JPG DSC03144.JPG DSC03146.JPG DSC03145.JPG
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    2008 NAMBA P-Mono & P-Offshore Nat'l 2-Lap Record Holder; '15 P-Cat, P-Ltd Cat 2-Lap
    2009/2010 NAMBA P-Sport Hydro Nat'l 2-Lap Record Holder, '13 SCSTA P-Ltd Cat High Points
    '11 NAMBA [P-Ltd] : Mono, Offshore, OPC, Sport Hydro; '06 LSO, '12,'13,'14 P Ltd Cat /Mono

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    Default More mods

    I didn't like the sound of the stock driveline - seemed to have some buzz, so I replaced flex with an Octura .150 and installed lead-teflon bushings in place of the brass bushing. Some may argue with this, but I run lead-teflon in nearly all of my non-stinger struts and they're ultra-smooth and easy to replace.


    DSC03153.JPG

    I re-did the servo linkage to make it easier to adjust center point and reduced the rudder throw ratio - helps calm down straightline jittering (which is more my fault than the boats)

    DSC03147.JPG

    Now that I can count on the cooling system, I hope to find a few more mph. We'll see.

    She sure is purdy :

    Zi6_0559.jpg Zi6_0560.jpg
    Last edited by properchopper; 04-23-2012 at 12:29 PM.
    2008 NAMBA P-Mono & P-Offshore Nat'l 2-Lap Record Holder; '15 P-Cat, P-Ltd Cat 2-Lap
    2009/2010 NAMBA P-Sport Hydro Nat'l 2-Lap Record Holder, '13 SCSTA P-Ltd Cat High Points
    '11 NAMBA [P-Ltd] : Mono, Offshore, OPC, Sport Hydro; '06 LSO, '12,'13,'14 P Ltd Cat /Mono

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    Tony.. looked stuck.. the RPMs seemed a tick off too.. make sure you round the bottom of the rudder blade.

    Cool vid! Did you see the one I did for Scott Roman.. allbeit all stock its really running well.

    Here it is
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ucNx...vakVq7_G_Yg%3D

    Keep the info coming.

    Grim

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    Quote Originally Posted by properchopper View Post
    I didn't like the sound of the stock driveline - seemed to have some buzz, so I replaced flex with an Octura .150 and installed teflon bushings in place of the brass bushing.
    Tony... when you say "teflon"... you mean LEAD-Teflon, right?? You aren't running straight Teflon bushings, are you??
    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimracer View Post
    Tony.. looked stuck.. the RPMs seemed a tick off too.. make sure you round the bottom of the rudder blade.

    Cool vid! Did you see the one I did for Scott Roman.. allbeit all stock its really running well.

    Here it is
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ucNx...vakVq7_G_Yg%3D

    Keep the info coming.

    Grim
    Mike, thanks for the feedback; I agree with you on both points. I need to play with strut height/angle and CG to loosen things up a bit - the run in the vid was on glassy water and I've found that stepped sponsons like granular water to break loose. I'm setting up for the cat sprint class so If I loosen up too much for smooth play water I may go too far in that direction.

    Also, I'll be trying my favorite "spec" prop, the Grim 42/55. The M445 loads more than I like on this hull (so far as I can tell). In addition, my "seat of the pants" (and ear) impressions tell me that the stock AQ speedy works best with this motor so I'm switching back to it as well.

    I'm really impresed with this boat, visually it's killer, and needs NO mods out of the box for max use ( I'm a compulsive modder, so what I've done is unneccesary for most users). A really important side benefit I've found for efforts to promote and introduce FE to the general public is the fact that when a Father and Son come up to my table at the lake and ask about dollar investment, instead of pointing (and wincing) to my purpose-built raceboats, and explaining the cost, which will scare away most Dads , I can show that a totally cool boat like the MC can be had without breaking the bank.

    More to come
    2008 NAMBA P-Mono & P-Offshore Nat'l 2-Lap Record Holder; '15 P-Cat, P-Ltd Cat 2-Lap
    2009/2010 NAMBA P-Sport Hydro Nat'l 2-Lap Record Holder, '13 SCSTA P-Ltd Cat High Points
    '11 NAMBA [P-Ltd] : Mono, Offshore, OPC, Sport Hydro; '06 LSO, '12,'13,'14 P Ltd Cat /Mono

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darin Jordan View Post
    Tony... when you say "teflon"... you mean LEAD-Teflon, right?? You aren't running straight Teflon bushings, are you??
    OOps - lead-teflon it is !
    2008 NAMBA P-Mono & P-Offshore Nat'l 2-Lap Record Holder; '15 P-Cat, P-Ltd Cat 2-Lap
    2009/2010 NAMBA P-Sport Hydro Nat'l 2-Lap Record Holder, '13 SCSTA P-Ltd Cat High Points
    '11 NAMBA [P-Ltd] : Mono, Offshore, OPC, Sport Hydro; '06 LSO, '12,'13,'14 P Ltd Cat /Mono

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    Quote Originally Posted by properchopper View Post
    oops - lead-teflon it is !
    phew!
    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimracer View Post
    Tony.. looked stuck.. the RPMs seemed a tick off too.. make sure you round the bottom of the rudder blade.

    Cool vid! Did you see the one I did for Scott Roman.. allbeit all stock its really running well.

    Here it is
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ucNx...vakVq7_G_Yg%3D

    Keep the info coming.

    Grim
    Good ear. Just discovered timing was set to 7 degrees. Reprogrammed to 11 degrees - sounds better on bench.
    2008 NAMBA P-Mono & P-Offshore Nat'l 2-Lap Record Holder; '15 P-Cat, P-Ltd Cat 2-Lap
    2009/2010 NAMBA P-Sport Hydro Nat'l 2-Lap Record Holder, '13 SCSTA P-Ltd Cat High Points
    '11 NAMBA [P-Ltd] : Mono, Offshore, OPC, Sport Hydro; '06 LSO, '12,'13,'14 P Ltd Cat /Mono

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    roger that..

    Grim

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    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

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    Those were Tyler's EXACT words to me at the launch during a P-Mono heat (Tyler in Yellow, Me in White); watch (and listen to his voice) at exactly 1:46 in the vid

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0ixeztr-wE
    2008 NAMBA P-Mono & P-Offshore Nat'l 2-Lap Record Holder; '15 P-Cat, P-Ltd Cat 2-Lap
    2009/2010 NAMBA P-Sport Hydro Nat'l 2-Lap Record Holder, '13 SCSTA P-Ltd Cat High Points
    '11 NAMBA [P-Ltd] : Mono, Offshore, OPC, Sport Hydro; '06 LSO, '12,'13,'14 P Ltd Cat /Mono

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    Hahahahahaha! This is going to be FUN!
    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimracer View Post
    Tony.. looked stuck.. the RPMs seemed a tick off too.. *make sure you round the bottom of the rudder blade.
    *
    Cool vid! Did you see the one I did for Scott Roman.. allbeit all stock its really running well.

    Here it is
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ucNx...vakVq7_G_Yg%3D

    Keep the info coming.

    Grim
    Please explain more, round the entire bottom, or just the leading edge? Was about to do the latter, figuring it would reduce the chance of snagging, and holding onto weeds etc. But was warned against doing so by members here, and a
    rudder manufacturer. Was told the bottom should remain squared, and flat, "to reduce lift, and drag".

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    Quote Originally Posted by runzwithsizorz View Post
    Please explain more, round the entire bottom, or just the leading edge? Was about to do the latter, figuring it would reduce the chance of snagging, and holding onto weeds etc. But was warned against doing so by members here, and a
    rudder manufacturer. Was told the bottom should remain squared, and flat, "to reduce lift, and drag".
    Can't guarantee this is the correct shape, but this is how I did it for the MC

    DSC03156.JPG
    2008 NAMBA P-Mono & P-Offshore Nat'l 2-Lap Record Holder; '15 P-Cat, P-Ltd Cat 2-Lap
    2009/2010 NAMBA P-Sport Hydro Nat'l 2-Lap Record Holder, '13 SCSTA P-Ltd Cat High Points
    '11 NAMBA [P-Ltd] : Mono, Offshore, OPC, Sport Hydro; '06 LSO, '12,'13,'14 P Ltd Cat /Mono

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    Default Pretty sure I found the "sweet spot"

    By applying ancient Oriental practice of "Too-ning" (taught to me by Masters Darin-San and Brian-San) got first number on GPS to read "5" (other number not to be revealed because of secret pact with underground Spirit ).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RWB9wSlyMU

    This will be a fun race even for driving-impared peeps like me
    Last edited by properchopper; 04-24-2012 at 08:03 PM.
    2008 NAMBA P-Mono & P-Offshore Nat'l 2-Lap Record Holder; '15 P-Cat, P-Ltd Cat 2-Lap
    2009/2010 NAMBA P-Sport Hydro Nat'l 2-Lap Record Holder, '13 SCSTA P-Ltd Cat High Points
    '11 NAMBA [P-Ltd] : Mono, Offshore, OPC, Sport Hydro; '06 LSO, '12,'13,'14 P Ltd Cat /Mono

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    445 prop? Did you bend the prop in any way?

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    Lookin' good! They do run nice when dialed in. Just got my first run in on the weekend with my Drifter S. Fast right off the bench with a lot more to come once it's had some tuning voodoo.
    Your rudder is done about the same as mine, I ditched the stock crap motor mount and went with a standard glue in style, trimmed the stuffing tube cause I moved the motor back closer to the "hump", then added a pair of rails. Really stiffened up the floor of the tub, lol you can adjust the strut without the inboard end of the stuffing tube moving. Now you can pick up the boat by the motor and give it a good shake, nothing moves or bends. My stock motor mount bent in an about 50 mph crash with the stock setup.
    Also ditched the plastic braces inside the hatch and went with some carbon rod as well as another layer of glass, no stuffed in hatches since that mod.
    Glad the finish on your is good, I wish I had a later version, mine is really rough.
    All that aside I think the boat runs great, and fast with some tweaking and tuning!
    Guess it really comes down to not being a RTR kind of guy, I like things my way and done to my standards which are higher than mass production will allow.
    If my boats upside down then who owns the one I thought I was driving the last two laps?

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    Looks good Tony, now just get it running when there's a bit of consistent ripples on the water and she will loosen up a bit more for a bit more top end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by detox View Post
    445 prop? Did you bend the prop in any way?
    Yup; just pitched it up a teensy bit with a "tip tweak" - kind of a "poor man's mod" - I'm still a little lost in the art of prop magic

    DSC03157.JPG


    Temps seem ok with the upgraded cooling - a 445 on some spec powered hulls get the motor quite hot. I still need to do a full 2.5 min test to confirm that temps will be sustainable for a full race..
    2008 NAMBA P-Mono & P-Offshore Nat'l 2-Lap Record Holder; '15 P-Cat, P-Ltd Cat 2-Lap
    2009/2010 NAMBA P-Sport Hydro Nat'l 2-Lap Record Holder, '13 SCSTA P-Ltd Cat High Points
    '11 NAMBA [P-Ltd] : Mono, Offshore, OPC, Sport Hydro; '06 LSO, '12,'13,'14 P Ltd Cat /Mono

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doby View Post
    Looks good Tony, now just get it running when there's a bit of consistent ripples on the water and she will loosen up a bit more for a bit more top end.
    With seven boats entered in the P-Ltd Cat Sprint class , there'll be enough ripples to keep things loose . Actually, it's a bit of a challange to set up/predict how handling in racewater will be while testing with just one boat on the water. Our P-Ltd Sport Hydro and P-Mono heats being run during the H20 Gasser events occur in between the big gasser heats and the water is rife with rollers, freak waves, whirlpools and holes which keep things uber-loose
    2008 NAMBA P-Mono & P-Offshore Nat'l 2-Lap Record Holder; '15 P-Cat, P-Ltd Cat 2-Lap
    2009/2010 NAMBA P-Sport Hydro Nat'l 2-Lap Record Holder, '13 SCSTA P-Ltd Cat High Points
    '11 NAMBA [P-Ltd] : Mono, Offshore, OPC, Sport Hydro; '06 LSO, '12,'13,'14 P Ltd Cat /Mono

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    Quote Originally Posted by siberianhusky View Post
    Lookin' good! They do run nice when dialed in. Just got my first run in on the weekend with my Drifter S. Fast right off the bench with a lot more to come once it's had some tuning voodoo.
    Your rudder is done about the same as mine, I ditched the stock crap motor mount and went with a standard glue in style, trimmed the stuffing tube cause I moved the motor back closer to the "hump", then added a pair of rails. Really stiffened up the floor of the tub, lol you can adjust the strut without the inboard end of the stuffing tube moving. Now you can pick up the boat by the motor and give it a good shake, nothing moves or bends. My stock motor mount bent in an about 50 mph crash with the stock setup.
    Also ditched the plastic braces inside the hatch and went with some carbon rod as well as another layer of glass, no stuffed in hatches since that mod.
    Glad the finish on your is good, I wish I had a later version, mine is really rough.
    All that aside I think the boat runs great, and fast with some tweaking and tuning!
    Guess it really comes down to not being a RTR kind of guy, I like things my way and done to my standards which are higher than mass production will allow.
    I'm with you on the motor mount thing ! I just found out that the motor mount can easily flex forward, and coupled with what I discovered as a loose front motor endbell and insufficient (looked good on bench) dog-to-strut clearance, look what
    happened when the dog met the strut:

    DSC03159.JPG

    I'm taking the easy way out and reinforcing the stock mount to keep it flexing forward - a bottom mount, as you correctly observed needs the flexible bottom to be reinforced but it seems the stock mount is secure on the sides and should stay put once reinforced. Some CF plate should do the trick - doing it today and will post.

    DSC03160.JPG
    2008 NAMBA P-Mono & P-Offshore Nat'l 2-Lap Record Holder; '15 P-Cat, P-Ltd Cat 2-Lap
    2009/2010 NAMBA P-Sport Hydro Nat'l 2-Lap Record Holder, '13 SCSTA P-Ltd Cat High Points
    '11 NAMBA [P-Ltd] : Mono, Offshore, OPC, Sport Hydro; '06 LSO, '12,'13,'14 P Ltd Cat /Mono

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    Tony, not a bad idea, but that's still a pretty wide expanse to make rigid in that plane... You might consider doing something with some angle to "I-Beam" the mount instead... or simply make a couple of longitudinal braces for it to attach to the mount and down to the bottom of the hull... That's how I'd proceed... Then, once that was rigid, I'd cut those damn side pieces out and give myself some room in there without the lateral pieces spanning the interior... (In other words... I'd take that motor mount out and put in an OSE style one... )

    But, that's just me... :D
    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

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