Is this how its supposed to look when its running VIDEO

[xlandguy]

Well I don't get how the ESC is 60 amp but the boat seems to pull more than that? And a 6,000mah 30c can do 180 amp continuous, way more than the ESC is rated for??? I would think those batts are plenty for this boat.

[Old Sloppy]

[QUOTE=pavmentsurfer;416953I have 8200's but only run them in my summit as they are only 30C.[/QUOTE]

a) 8200 30c = 246 amps rating

b) 5000 50c = 250 amps rating

c) 15000 40c /2 = 300 amps rating

this is what I run in my Cat, I have 2 motors so the 300 amps rating ( actual 15000 40c = 600 amps, but it is devided by 2 motors)

My batteries do not get hot. I estimate 125.3 amps (per motor).

Harry

[Brushless55]

Well I don't get how the ESC is 60 amp but the boat seems to pull more than that? And a 6,000mah 30c can do 180 amp continuous, way more than the ESC is rated for??? I would think those batts are plenty for this boat.

Higher amps maintains Voltage, more Watts, more RPMs = higher speeds

[DjFlipNautikz]

i run two 5000mah Turnigy 4s batteries in parallel. i actually have never tried 2s batteries because 3s and 4s is all i have. here is a video of her running.

[xlandguy]

So you get what, 10 mins runtime with the two 4s in parallel? Motor must get kind of hot running that long? And it looks like its going pretty good even with the added weight of all that battery!

[Brushless55]

So you get what, 10 mins runtime with the two 4s in parallel? Motor must get kind of hot running that long? And it looks like its going pretty good even with the added weight of all that battery!

If your cooling is setup proper, you wont have heat issues not matter how long you run
and on the flip side, a cooling system setup wrong wont last 1min

[pavmentsurfer]

Im not sure that 60 amp ESC rating is entirely correct. If I'm getting 2 50C batteries really warm after a run its obviously pulling a heck of alot more than 60 amps. Ive got a Turnigy 120amp ESC to go into this boat. I bought it mostly for the adjustable LVC... but I was thinking maybe it would also be more robust.

I got my battery information from the guy who actually sells the SPC packs that I run. Tom from SPC. His answer was that when the 8200mah pack is full then yes, your amp ratings are correct. However, when the battery is being drained and there is less MAH in the pack, your amp ratings drop as well. At the end of a run you may be pushing that pack too hard. Whereas a 50C rated pack can still deliver the amps when its empty because it is a true 50C... it sounded like good logic and Tom has never steered me wrong. He has an SV27 and runs it pretty hard. He also has thousands of dollars in data logging equipment and battery testing equipment. So, I trust that he knows his stuff.

[Brushless55]

Im not sure that 60 amp ESC rating is entirely correct. If I'm getting 2 50C batteries really warm after a run its obviously pulling a heck of alot more than 60 amps. Ive got a Turnigy 120amp ESC to go into this boat. I bought it mostly for the adjustable LVC... but I was thinking maybe it would also be more robust.

I got my battery information from the guy who actually sells the SPC packs that I run. Tom from SPC. His answer was that when the 8200mah pack is full then yes, your amp ratings are correct. However, when the battery is being drained and there is less MAH in the pack, your amp ratings drop as well. At the end of a run you may be pushing that pack too hard. Whereas a 50C rated pack can still deliver the amps when its empty because it is a true 50C... it sounded like good logic and Tom has never steered me wrong. He has an SV27 and runs it pretty hard. He also has thousands of dollars in data logging equipment and battery testing equipment. So, I trust that he knows his stuff.

UHHHH???
so he Tom says that the 50c he sells can deliver what he says the packs can and others don't?
so he is saying that the 8200mah 30c (240A)pack when they are down to 1500mah only deliver 60amps but his 50c remain the same
not good logic at all, actually bull really...

and what temp is warm with your packs?
90*F
100*F
???*F
packs can get to about 140*F without harm
most packs heat up good when they go beyond 80% use
if you have 20% and greater left in the packs after a run and they are hot, then they are not true 50c to begin with..

[pavmentsurfer]

Tom says the packs he sells have been tested and proven to deliver a minimum of 50C... whereas MANY other companies packs DONT deliver their actual C rating. Im AM saying that yes.

However, what I'm NOT saying is what you wrote about the 8200's. Keep in mind, those packs are SPC's as well. What he said is that a 30c pack that is down to 1600mah is not putting out as many amps as a 50C pack that is down to 1000mah. I don't run my packs below 3.6vpc just to be safe but the logic says a pack with a higher C rating will be delivering more amps when it gets low than a pack with a lower C rating. it makes sense.

If you do the math, An 8200mah 30C pack that has been run down to %20 capacity now has 1600 (approx) mah remaining. 1.6X 30 = 48amps... thats what the math says.
A 5000mah 50C pack that has been run down to %20 has 1000mah remaining. 1 X 50 = 50. So yes, the 50c pack at %20 remaining is capable of delivering more amps.

What would be ideal would be an 8200mah 50C pack. Then, IT would be putting out more amps than the 5000mah 50C pack at %20 capacity.

When i bought my boat i asked tom what packs would be better to run. my 5000mah 50C's or my 8200mah 30C's. He said the 5000mah packs would be better as they would be capable of putting out more amps as the pack drained. I didnt question him, I just did it.

My packs currently temp at around 120 degrees at the end of a full, non stop run. Thats the outer plastic of the hard case so I'm sure the cells inside are a bit warmer.

[Brushless55]

Tom says the packs he sells have been tested and proven to deliver a minimum of 50C... whereas MANY other companies packs DONT deliver their actual C rating. Im AM saying that yes.

However, what I'm NOT saying is what you wrote about the 8200's. Keep in mind, those packs are SPC's as well. What he said is that a 30c pack that is down to 1600mah is not putting out as many amps as a 50C pack that is down to 1000mah. I don't run my packs below 3.6vpc just to be safe but the logic says a pack with a higher C rating will be delivering more amps when it gets low than a pack with a lower C rating. it makes sense.
If you do the math, An 8200mah 30C pack that has been run down to %20 capacity now has 1600 (approx) mah remaining. 1.6X 30 = 48amps... thats what the math says.
A 5000mah 50C pack that has been run down to %20 has 1000mah remaining. 1 X 50 = 50. So yes, the 50c pack at %20 remaining is capable of delivering more amps. What would be ideal would be an 8200mah 50C pack. Then, IT would be putting out more amps than the 5000mah 50C pack at %20 capacity.

When i bought my boat i asked tom what packs would be better to run. my 5000mah 50C's or my 8200mah 30C's. He said the 5000mah packs would be better as they would be capable of putting out more amps as the pack drained. I didnt question him, I just did it.

My packs currently temp at around 120 degrees at the end of a full, non stop run. Thats the outer plastic of the hard case so I'm sure the cells inside are a bit warmer.

first off, I quoted what you said about what that moron said
his logic that he has you believing is 100% WRONG!
his math is dead wrong..
if you run a lipo that can only put out 50a, you will jack them up!!
and IMO the 8200's would be the better pack as you will have about 50% more runtime

and again, most packs will heat up if ran beyond there 80% capacity
if your not doing this and they are getting hot, then that tells me they are not true 50c packs
I have 40c Turnigy packs in my P-Spec that the motor pulls 80a cont and they only get about 105* after a race.. so what does that tell you?

and by the way, 3.6v per cell is not a safe range, that's about 100% empty...

[pavmentsurfer]

Well, this thread jumped into territory I'm not comfortable with pretty fast. The math I'm using to determine how many amps the pack is putting out is not MINE or TOMS... its the math everyone uses to calculate amps. So I can't really see how that can be WRONG. MAH/1000 X C = amps. Its the math that everyone uses. But no big deal.

I don't appreciate you suggesting a person I know and trust is a "moron". There is NO need for name calling or insults here. Maybe its acceptable on this forum. Its not what I'm used to and Id prefer it be kept out of this thread.

Finally, you can say what you want about the packs I'm running. They are tested and proven to be 50C, if not higher. Im very happy with them. From my understanding of how amps and lipos work, it makes sense to me and ill be sticking with the logic. Run times aren't the most important factor to me. But I'm new to boats. So clearly I don't know anything about RC electronics right.

For the record, 3.4 volts per cell is empty. at 3.6 volts per cell I'm putting about 4000mah back into my 5000mah packs when I charge. By my calculations, thats %20 remaining.

[Brushless55]

......

[Brushless55]

Im not sure that 60 amp ESC rating is entirely correct. If I'm getting 2 50C batteries really warm after a run its obviously pulling a heck of alot more than 60 amps. Ive got a Turnigy 120amp ESC to go into this boat. I bought it mostly for the adjustable LVC... but I was thinking maybe it would also be more robust.

I got my battery information from the guy who actually sells the SPC packs that I run. Tom from SPC. His answer was that when the 8200mah pack is full then yes, your amp ratings are correct. However, when the battery is being drained and there is less MAH in the pack, your amp ratings drop as well .

At the end of a run you may be pushing that pack too hard. Whereas a 50C rated pack can still deliver the amps when its empty because it is a true 50C... it sounded like good logic
and Tom has never steered me wrong. He has an SV27 and runs it pretty hard. He also has thousands of dollars in data logging equipment and battery testing equipment. So, I trust that he knows his stuff.

UHHHH???
so he Tom says that the 50c he sells can deliver what he says the packs can and others don't?
so he is saying that the 8200mah 30c (240A)pack when they are down to 1500mah only deliver 60amps but his 50c remain the same
not good logic at all, actually bull really...

and what temp is warm with your packs?
90*F
100*F
???*F
packs can get to about 140*F without harm
most packs heat up good when they go beyond 80% use
if you have 20% and greater left in the packs after a run and they are hot, then they are not true 50c to begin with..

Tom says the packs he sells have been tested and proven to deliver a minimum of 50C... whereas MANY other companies packs DONT deliver their actual C rating. Im AM saying that yes.

However, what I'm NOT saying is what you wrote about the 8200's. Keep in mind, those packs are SPC's as well. What he said is that a 30c pack that is down to 1600mah is not putting out as many amps as a 50C pack that is down to 1000mah. I don't run my packs below 3.6vpc just to be safe but the logic says a pack with a higher C rating will be delivering more amps when it gets low than a pack with a lower C rating. it makes sense.

If you do the math, An 8200mah 30C pack that has been run down to %20 capacity now has 1600 (approx) mah remaining. 1.6X 30 = 48amps... thats what the math says.
A 5000mah 50C pack that has been run down to %20 has 1000mah remaining. 1 X 50 = 50. So yes, the 50c pack at %20 remaining is capable of delivering more amps.
100% WRONG!

What would be ideal would be an 8200mah 50C pack. Then, IT would be putting out more amps than the 5000mah 50C pack at %20 capacity.

When i bought my boat i asked tom what packs would be better to run. my 5000mah 50C's or my 8200mah 30C's. He said the 5000mah packs would be better as they would be capable of putting out more amps as the pack drained. I didnt question him, I just did it.

My packs currently temp at around 120 degrees at the end of a full, non stop run. Thats the outer plastic of the hard case so I'm sure the cells inside are a bit warmer.

first off, I quoted what you said about what that moron said
his logic that he has you believing is 100% WRONG!
his math is dead wrong..
if you run a lipo that can only put out 50a, you will jack them up!! stupid logic for sure..
and IMO the 8200's would be the better pack as you will have about 50% more runtime

and again, most packs will heat up if ran beyond there 80% capacity
if your not doing this and they are getting hot, then that tells me they are not true 50c packs
I have 40c Turnigy packs in my P-Spec that the motor pulls 80a cont and they only get about 105* after a race.. so what does that tell you?

and by the way, 3.6v per cell is not a safe range, that's about 100% empty...

Well, this thread jumped into territory I'm not comfortable with pretty fast. The math I'm using to determine how many amps the pack is putting out is not MINE or TOMS... its the math everyone uses to calculate amps.
No one on these forums uses this bogus logic when the pack is being used up!
So I can't really see how that can be WRONG. MAH/1000 X C = amps. Its the math that everyone uses. But no big deal.

I don't appreciate you suggesting a person I know and trust is a "moron". There is NO need for name calling or insults here. Maybe its acceptable on this forum. Its not what I'm used to and Id prefer it be kept out of this thread.
Ok so the guy is a used car sales man or something?? using bogus logic to sell you his packs and to over look some other packs that could be a better choice..

Finally, you can say what you want about the packs I'm running. They are tested and proven to be 50C, if not higher. Im very happy with them. From my understanding of how amps and lipos work, it makes sense to me and ill be sticking with the logic. Run times aren't the most important factor to me. But I'm new to boats. So clearly I don't know anything about RC electronics right.
LOL

For the record, 3.4 volts per cell is empty. at 3.6 volts per cell I'm putting about 4000mah back into my 5000mah packs when I charge. By my calculations, thats %20 remaining.

most pack are about done at 3.6v per cell.. you might have about 10% left in the packs
all my packs when they are at about 3.7v per cell I am putting back the 80% used back into them
had to quote all this tom given logic for you that is bogus

[siberianhusky]

IF you batteries are getting hot AND they are "50c" packs then either there is something wrong with the boat (don't think so because it runs) or the batteries are junk.
You are drawing amp spikes of not much over 100 amps and average of 60-70 most likely.
My other spec cat see spikes of about 110 and an average of about 75. It's a butt load faster than my MC!
A quality 25c 5000mah pack can run this without overheating the packs. In fact I have run this setup with a pair of 25c 5000mah Enerland packs with no heat problems at all. Not ideal but very,very possible. I have the eagletree data available.
Since nothing has gone up in smoke I'd have to say your packs are no good because they don't seem to be able to deliver 100 amps without heat issues.
Or you are running them down too far.
I completely agree with the 3.7v number, thats my baseline as well. With my Crew thats about 4 minutes hard non stop running with a 5000mah setup, resting voltage before I charge is always 3.7x V. Also works out to an approximate amp draw of 60 amps.

[Brushless55]

IF you batteries are getting hot AND they are "50c" packs then either there is something wrong with the boat (don't think so because it runs) or the batteries are junk.
You are drawing amp spikes of not much over 100 amps and average of 60-70 most likely.
My other spec cat see spikes of about 110 and an average of about 75. It's a butt load faster than my MC!
A quality 25c 5000mah pack can run this without overheating the packs. In fact I have run this setup with a pair of 25c 5000mah Enerland packs with no heat problems at all. Not ideal but very,very possible. I have the eagletree data available.
Since nothing has gone up in smoke I'd have to say your packs are no good because they don't seem to be able to deliver 100 amps without heat issues.
Or you are running them down too far.
I completely agree with the 3.7v number, thats my baseline as well. With my Crew thats about 4 minutes hard non stop running with a 5000mah setup, resting voltage before I charge is always 3.7x V. Also works out to an approximate amp draw of 60 amps.

sounds about right..

[xlandguy]

there is some good info here. But I agree that we don't need to be calling anyone a moron. C'mon now. I would say that most packs will get "warm" running in a high performance FE boat. I run 25c 5,000mah from SPC and 40c 4,400mah packs by Sky Lipo. Both seem to get a bit warm but not of concern. I have 4 more batteries on order, these are Zippy 45c 5,000mah packs. $27 bucks a pack, what a price.

[siberianhusky]

One other thing is C rating is not tied to how much capacity is left in the pack, It is simply how much amperage the pack is capable of delivering. It can still put out 120 amps or whatever and only have 1500mah left in the battery, it just will not do it for very long before the pack is at 0.
If it actually worked the way you think it does we'd all be destroying equipment on every run.

If you do the math, An 8200mah 30C pack that has been run down to %20 capacity now has 1600 (approx) mah remaining. 1.6X 30 = 48amps... thats what the math says.

Math may be right but the logic behind this is just plain old wrong! It just doesn't work this way. IF you are quoting your battery guy right I think you need to listen to some other people as he has no clue what he's talking about, as long as you are really stating his position and not what you think you understand. That pack would keep putting out 246 amps if so loaded until it's dead. It's a function of battery construction not capacity. Although capacity IS part of the equation, just not as a variable, it's set and doesn't change due to the state of a charge. A 8200mah battery is an 8200mah battery if it's fully charged or completely flat it's potential capacity is the exact same 8200mah.

[Brushless55]

One other thing is C rating is not tied to how much capacity is left in the pack, It is simply how much amperage the pack is capable of delivering. It can still put out 120 amps or whatever and only have 1500mah left in the battery, it just will not do it for very long before the pack is at 0.
If it actually worked the way you think it does we'd all be destroying equipment on every run.

If you do the math, An 8200mah 30C pack that has been run down to %20 capacity now has 1600 (approx) mah remaining. 1.6X 30 = 48amps... thats what the math says.

Math may be right but the logic behind this is just plain old wrong! It just doesn't work this way. IF you are quoting your battery guy right I think you need to listen to some other people as he has no clue what he's talking about, as long as you are really stating his position and not what you think you understand. That pack would keep putting out 246 amps if so loaded until it's dead. It's a function of battery construction not capacity. Although capacity IS part of the equation, just not as a variable, it's set and doesn't change due to the state of a charge. A 8200mah battery is an 8200mah battery if it's fully charged or completely flat it's potential capacity is the exact same 8200mah.

Yes!
Another thought I had, if this all was true then my 3D planes could not 3D anymore when my packs got below 40% capacity, and I run them down to 20%.. I would not have enought amps to hang on the prop like I can at 20%

[DjFlipNautikz]

So you get what, 10 mins runtime with the two 4s in parallel? Motor must get kind of hot running that long? And it looks like its going pretty good even with the added weight of all that battery!

i always check my temps after a run. and i always run until the LVC kicks in. My temps are usually 100* - 110*F.

they really dont get that hot.

i like the extra weight of the batteries and i go as fast as my buddy with an MC just like mine but he runs two 2s batteries in series.

And also i would listen to these guys...they know their

good luck man!!

[xlandguy]

And also i would listen to these guys...they know their

good luck man!!

That fo sure!

[Old Sloppy]

i always check my temps after a run. . My temps are usually 100* - 110*F.

they really dont get that hot.

Did you know that Lipo's like to be over 100 degrees F ?

In fact 122 degrees F is the target tempature, for best perfomance.

Actually Lipo's hate to be below 100 degrees F, except when in "storage mode" then they like 45 degrees F.

Harry

[Brushless55]

But I'm new to boats. So clearly I don't know anything about RC electronics right.

For the record, 3.4 volts per cell is empty. at 3.6 volts per cell I'm putting about 4000mah back into my 5000mah packs when I charge. By my calculations, thats %20 remaining.

most pack are about done at 3.6v per cell.. you might have about 10% left in the packs
all my packs when they are at about 3.7v per cell I am putting back the 80% used back into them
had to quote all this tom given logic for you that is bogus

LOL... this picture says alot
just had to find this

[bdp1174]

Well I tried your suggestion on moving the packs further back and it helped a ton.I lowered the strut back to around the factory position and it seemed to be running pretty fast.I will probably try bringing the strut up a bit,but it seemed faster already.Here is a quick video of how it ran after moving the batteries,this is on 2 gens ace 5300 30c lipos on a grim 42x55.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skpK...e_gdata_player

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P10U...e_gdata_player

Sorry for the bad view from phone but my cameraman did not flip camera to get widescreen view.

[Brushless55]

Looks good to me man!
can you get a picture of where your stut is now?
thanks

[Old Sloppy]

Looks like you have it well trimmed, any further adjustments will be "Extra Fine Tuning"....remember:

the further back the batteries, the higher the bow (nose)

the higher the strut, the lower the bow.

a three blade prop will lift the bow, as compared to a two blade prop will lower the bow.

in my opinion; you want the batteries slammed back as far as possible, then raise the strut as high as possible ( this is how you set the bow height/angle of attack)remember strut too high will drop the bow , run a 3 bladed prop with a "M" blade shape. 3 blade prop will allow a higher strut setting than a 2 blade..

Harry

[pavmentsurfer]

Looks like you have it well trimmed, any further adjustments will be "Extra Fine Tuning"....remember:

the further back the batteries, the higher the bow (nose)

the higher the strut, the lower the bow.

a three blade prop will lift the bow, as compared to a two blade prop will lower the bow.

in my opinion; you want the batteries slammed back as far as possible, then raise the strut as high as possible ( this is how you set the bow height/angle of attack)remember strut too high will drop the bow , run a 3 bladed prop with a "M" blade shape. 3 blade prop will allow a higher strut setting than a 2 blade..

Harry

Man, where were you when I was trying to set up my boat. This is EXACTLY the info I had been looking for all along. It confirms what id done anyway but knowing what direction changes will take the boat is SO helpful.

I finally got the boat back home. (it was in my parents trailer while they were on holidays, they got home tonight) and I installed my Turnigy 120amp ESC and got it setup with my Traxxas TQI radio. I also installed the temp and voltage sensor the LINK app on my iPhone. It works pretty slick. Shows exactly how much voltage my 2 packs have combined. I can set alarms to go off at certain points as well and at multiple levels. Which is good because the highest I can set the LVC on the Turnigy ESC is 3.4VPC.

I also decided to TRY another motor I have here. Its an EZrun 4068 series 2700kv 4 pole. Its a big motor compared to the stock 36mm motor that comes in the MC. I have a Lepoard water jacket on it... I'm going to run it tomorrow and see how it does. If the boat runs like crap or if its just not right ill go back to the stock motor as I really had no complaints about it. I just thought id try this one for fun.

I also installed an SV27 rudder with the extra water pickup. So, I now cool the ESC from the stock pickup and the motor from the rudder... or the other way around... I can remember. Here are the pics just for fun.






Its alot of water line... but the way the Turnigy ESC has its cooling inlet and outlet (on the same side) there really weren't alot of options. I think its an O.K. job of cleaning it up but will having alot of line cause any issues with cooling? Do you think having double pickups will help keep things cooler than a single pickup?

[xlandguy]

Looks like you have no space between drive dog and strut? I like the dual cooling, if an inlet gets blocked at least only one component overheats, not both. What's the blue thing in front of prop nut?

[Grimracer]

Xland looks to be right.. you need to move the shaft back..

Also..all that money spent, motor, controller, whatnot and the prop has not been sharpend....

Might want to sharpen that prop.

Grimracer

[pavmentsurfer]

I tried to buy a sharpened prop... but couldn't find one in stock with shipping to canada. Ive never done it before and didnt want to screw it up. I know to do it right I need a balancer as well. So I'm on the lookout for one. The prop and rudder need to be sharpened... I know

The drivedog/strut spacing is all an optical illusion. Theres about 1/8... maybe a bit more between them. In the pic it just looks like there isnt. Is that too much.

The ESC I bought just for the LVC... but the motor was one I just had laying around I think I have less than $20 into it and $10 into the water jacket. Figured id try it. If its not ideal ill go back to the stock one. This motor is 1/3 high KV than stock so I have to think there will be some sort of cause VS effect with that drastic a jump. I could run it on 3S and STILL get higher RPM (theoretical of course) than the stock motor on 4S. Would there be any benefit to that or will it not work or translate the way I'm thinking?

[pavmentsurfer]

Well... that didnt last long. I found a few minutes to get out with this setup this afternoon and in 7 passes the ESC literally popped and blew orange goo all over the inside of the boat. I guess the 120 amp ESC wasn't enough to handle the motor. I guess I should try the 180amp. The boat was STUPID fast... and the motor didnt seem to get overly hot in the short time I ran it. The boat is going to need some handling tweaks before i can run it WOT though. It gets really squirrely and starts to hop really bad but when its settled it takes off like a rocket.

I think I'm going to order the 180 amp ESC and see how that works. any suggestions on brand? I know the 180's have dual inlet and outlet cooling pickups so I should be able to get rid of some of my cooling hose.