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Thread: Rio EP brushless conversion HELP??????? plz

  1. #31
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    Some pics. Center of gravity is about 7.5 inches from transom. 25 inches from back to front. pushing batteries back as far as I can get them gives me a 7.75 cg , close.
    I like the turn fin ideas, those would be fine tuning I assume. Notice proximity of rudders to prop, literally will hit the prop if the rudder turns far enough. I had the prop pushed inwards towards the transom when videos were taken. Could the prop wash be hitting the rudders too much contributing to the roll? I will pull it out maybe 1/8 inch or a hair more? What u think?


    I have a spartan stock, it screams an a bit unstable wobbly at full speed. This rio is more exciting to me and more fun because we try things out and build, creativity is wonderful.
    Last edited by aminoacid; 12-20-2011 at 12:50 AM.

  2. #32
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by aminoacid View Post
    Some pics. Center of gravity is about 7.5 inches from transom. 25 inches from back to front. pushing batteries back as far as I can get them gives me a 7.75 cg , close.
    I like the turn fin ideas, those would be fine tuning I assume. Notice proximity of rudders to prop, literally will hit the prop if the rudder turns far enough. I had the prop pushed inwards towards the transom when videos were taken. Could the prop wash be hitting the rudders too much contributing to the roll? I will pull it out maybe 1/8 inch or a hair more? What u think?


    I have a spartan stock, it screams an a bit unstable wobbly at full speed. This rio is more exciting to me and more fun because we try things out and build, creativity is wonderful.
    So pushing the batts all the way back puts the cg at 7.75" from the transom? If so you are at 31%...............where was it before?

    Im with you on the creativity..............i have just as much fun with my brushless Villains that i built from the ground up.
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  4. #34
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    I didnt check what the cg was before i moved batteries back, but i moved them back at least 2 inches.

    wondering if i can shave down the prop I have to shrink it a little and give it a whirl, water here is freezing and i doubt i have a week for props to arrive in the mail.
    If I shave the entire blade edge equally, will that work for a temp fix?

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by aminoacid View Post
    I didnt check what the cg was before i moved batteries back, but i moved them back at least 2 inches.

    wondering if i can shave down the prop I have to shrink it a little and give it a whirl, water here is freezing and i doubt i have a week for props to arrive in the mail.
    If I shave the entire blade edge equally, will that work for a temp fix?
    Yeah, just for a temp job................i've done that before, wouldnt recommend a whole summer of running that way, but on a cheapy plastic prop i'd do it............try to get it as close as you can to equal. Then with the new cg and smaller prop it should run better.
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  6. #36
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    I actually found a 32mm prop from traxxas blast that I modified a bit the shaft hole and got it to work for now.ill give it a run tomorrow. Quick question about lipos I have 5000mah and a complete charge is showing about 2100 mah on the charger which is onyx 235. I have the charger set to 5000 mah capacity. Both batteries are showing up like this. Showing about 4.2 volts each cell. Charger has built in balancer. Ideas? Batterie are bran new turnigy 2s.

  7. #37
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    4.2v per cell is fully charged, brand new turnigy's come in storage mode at 3.85-3.90v per cell so they wouldnt take a full charge.

    Looking forward to hearing/seeing how it runs now...................one more thing, you may need to move the batts up slightly if it porpoises bad on the first short run.................just play with em.
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  8. #38
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    You could remove the left rudder to, And it may help some with the roll and drag.
    Your prop dog should be out from stuffing tube no more than 1/8 " and should not hit the rudder with the stock 42mm prop.
    If it does, Adjust your steering trim on your tx so the rudder will not hit the prop.
    Where are the lipos setting at in the hull ?
    I think you could rotate the esc for better cg to,
    May be with a bridge across the cells with velcro strapping to hold in place for easy in and out,
    With the cells to.

    Need some picture with lipos in the hull.
    Last edited by lenny; 12-20-2011 at 01:16 PM.

  9. #39
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    Lenny ~ how might offsetting the left battery aft/right battery forward mitgate torque roll?
    Is the idea to put the counterweight closer to the plane of the prop, to reduce lever arm length from counterweight to torque/walking force?

  10. #40
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    Possibly the batteries are fully charged, given the 4.2V voltage each cell (balanced, to boot), and it was just that they only needed 2100mah of juice to get to their 'full' 5000 mah capacity (more or less: I've read that new lipos need some cycles to get up to snuff, then I expect they drop off as they age). You might be able to get some advice from Turnigy directly via sales@hextronik.com.

  11. #41
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    UPDATE

    32mm prop
    batteries moved back as much as possible
    pulled the prop/shaft out little less than 1/4 inch
    a little snow falling towards the end of video. time is running out!!!

    Results: I can now get somewhat of a plane on the boat. 32mm is too small/slow with too much cavitation. never had porpoising either way.
    Still leaving to the right, but much less, so turning right will make it 360. often i couldn't get it to go straight, it'll go left to right, im thinking prop wash.
    V I D E O with improvements.
    I might try using 1 battery placed on left side, going to 35mm prop and see what happens. have to wait for the prop to come in. Good plan? should I keep the 32mm prop and use another brushless i have rated at 2600kv?
    I seen a youtube vid of this, he said he's using 2600kv motor, 3s lipo, 38x55 metal prop..... but WHERE should the battery be placed?

  12. #42
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    that might be correct, not sure if thats what the charger means that it only gave it that much mah. on 2x2s 5000mah ...i only got about 12 minutes of run time in this last video. ... doesn't seem right does it?

    another note, i took out the spartan too and one battery swelled up like a damn sausage. turnigy said take a pic, we need to see volts of each cell and send the email. wtf?

  13. #43
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    OK.................gettin somewhere now!! Thats really not much cavatation at all............a bad case is when it just sits still and stirs the water, it only takes a couple seconds for you to get on plane. I bet the x435 will be the sweet spot for propping. You may have your steering rate up too high, either that or the rudder throw is set up to far..........thats mainly why its spinning out, basically turning the rudders too far at speed, plus FE boats hate to turn left.

    The x435 should get you the bite and speed you want without the bad torque roll the 42mm was giving you.

    You hit full throttle in the vid a couple times?
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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by lenny View Post
    Also, Now you have a lot more power,
    So you will need longer turn fins to.
    I made my turn fins 1/2"longer and trim tabs 1/4 longer then stock the ones.
    so the width of the trim tabs is ok, just need to extend them away from transom a bit?

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Make-a-Wake View Post
    You hit full throttle in the vid a couple times?
    actually most of that video was full throttle except turns and when it's starting to act crazy on me

  16. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by aminoacid View Post
    so the width of the trim tabs is ok, just need to extend them away from transom a bit?
    Yes.
    Or you could make two sets, One sets wider to try to.
    And take left rudder off, You do not need it.
    It just adds drag and more prop wash interference to.

  17. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by lenny View Post
    Yes.
    Or you could make two sets, One sets wider to try to.
    And take left rudder off, You do not need it.
    It just adds drag and more prop wash interference to.
    I got a 1.34" prop from proboat which is 34mm that fit. seems ok for now but boat is still very difficult to control i can't hit top speed even with this 34mm prop. boat still leans to the right. This is with 1 battery sitting where the stock battery sat which is perpendicular to the hull length butt against the radio box. ESC sitting on the battery also. got center of gravity at 7 inches now. left rudder removed. i still feel the other rudder is contributing to handling quite a bit. If i'm steady at a speed while its leaning a bit to the right of course, it'lll sometimes start going left which to me says prop wash and rudder interference ?

    I have yet to extend the trim tabs. any budget ideas? home depot and get a 90 degree corner like peice and cut to length should work? along with extending the turn fins.
    I really want to get this boat stable so i can use it. i have a supervee 27 stock hardware and no electronics at all but haven't touched it. I know that will be easier to work with but I have faith in the RIO EP cuz i've seen videos.

  18. #48
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    I would like to see three pictures of the back of boat,
    Looking at the back and down the sides of the boat,
    A dead center of back of boat and rudder straight.

    Just trying to see if anything look off.

  19. #49
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  21. #51
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    Wow.........that prop looks huge on there..........is that the stock 42mm prop?

    If it ends up where you give up on that big motor, get something more tame, like an 1800kv 3650 or similar.
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  22. #52
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    prop is a proboat 1.34" ....so 34mm prop.
    my setup is 36-60 2200kv motor, 4s lipo 20c (single battery)

    Heres the latest video with that setup. still not stable beyond 60% throttle i would estimate.
    VIDEO # ...lost count!!!


    '

  23. #53
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    You ever try limiting your servo throw or turning down the Steering rate?
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  24. #54
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    i tried lowering the rate, and lowering too much i can't really turn in the pond, i hit shore twice when i ran it today.

  25. #55
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    I am not sure from those pictures,
    But check that your turn fins are straight like the right side picture of mine.Pictures of 36 shockwave 053.jpgPictures of 36 shockwave 052.jpgPictures of 36 shockwave 051.jpgPictures of 36 shockwave 050.jpgPictures of 36 shockwave 048.jpg
    Ps Have you checked your temps yet ?
    Looks like your water tube from the transit is tight,
    How is the water flow ?

  26. #56
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    One thing that hasnt been mentioned is trim tab adjustment. I normally end up with my right tab a bit further down to counteract torque roll, yours look to be even...........bend the right(from rear view) tab down a couple mm's more than the left..........or bring the left one up a bit.
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  27. #57
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    water flow is ok i guess, i see water coming out of the side tube. Haven't checked temps with a guage, but everything seems cool when i bring to shore wrapping up my operation for the day. my turn fins are straight.

  28. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Make-a-Wake View Post
    One thing that hasnt been mentioned is trim tab adjustment. I normally end up with my right tab a bit further down to counteract torque roll, yours look to be even...........bend the right(from rear view) tab down a couple mm's more than the left..........or bring the left one up a bit.
    i tried that actually. didn't do much. those stock tabs look pathetic honestly. new ones are definately on my agenda (home made of course)
    the only other thing is an aftermarket rudder setup but not sure if that will help with torque roll.
    If a smaller motor will solve most of the major problems, i guess i can try that but need hobbyking prices and of course hobbyking is always backordered, usually anything I look for on that website is out of stock and not sure who else has similar prices i can look.
    the motors i got from them were about $20 each i belieive..maybe 25.

  29. #59
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    I have bought many of these in my RC career.............cars and Boats.........great motors for the $$. This is what i would use if I were wanting to tone it down a bit, still powerful but a bit smaller and less kv:

    http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s..._Inrunner.html

    and if you want it to be a mid-speed boat(which will handle better) this will work on 4s and still give you over 2 1/2 times the power of the stock motor.

    http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s..._Inrunner.html
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  30. #60
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    the 36-56 is of course backordered. for the 28mm can motor, i'd have to redo the motor mount...not sure how i'd go about doing that without turning this into an overhaul.

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