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Thread: Rio EP brushless conversion HELP??????? plz

  1. #1
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    Default Rio EP brushless conversion HELP??????? plz

    Ok. I have a stock Rio EP and want to convert brushless.
    I have an ESC from the UL1 which is 60 amp water cooled.

    my question is what size battery and motor can i use? the UL1 had 2x 2s 3200 mah setup in series 14+ volts.
    Im a beginner modder and new to brushless. I have blackjack55 and shockwave 55 gas boats and nitro tmaxx and revo.

    i'm thinking 2200kv from hobbyking with maybe 4s 5000mah single battery? not sure really what i should use considering the hull size and weight it can handle. I'll try to take out the left rudder and stick with one only if thats a good idea?

    suggestions appreciated.

  2. #2
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    If thats the 25 inch version you wont need much to speed it up quite a bit. I'd go with the two 2s batts you have on each side for easier CG adjusment, at 3200 mah they arent real heavy either.

    This motor should be plenty with that boat and you can keep the prop small to lessen the torque roll effect:

    http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s..._Inrunner.html

    or you can go with the 1500kv version and a bit bigger prop:
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  3. #3
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    I have a Rio mod, And it runs on 2s and 3s, 3S gps at 32.5mph with a X440/3 s & b prop.
    Runs pretty good, Look hears the video,https://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/...-Rio-Brushless
    Last edited by lenny; 12-19-2011 at 09:19 PM.

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    Default Rio with ProBoat A3630-1500 on 6S

    I don't have advice, but I can offer an example: see photos of my work in progress @ http://s985.photobucket.com/albums/a...in%20Rio%20EP/

    The RCS Sickcess is to be vastly overpowered (with two water pickups: one stock & one thru-hull), and will retain both rudders for slow speed maneuverability. She will use the stock prop (or smaller!) to minimize torque roll.

    Intent is to build an able rescue boat capable of towing many meters of floating rope & noodle to lasso & tow wayward racers to shore. Also have notions of running in the surf line of the Chesapeake Bay.

    Retaining the water-tight box drove me from a 3S to 6S configuration, given my stockpile of 3S batts, the weight & balance tradeoffs, and my speculative concern about moving the center of gravity too far forward (starting with removal of the stock ESC from the box aft, and a ProBoat ESC that does not fit in its place). Throttle discipline will be required. I have high hopes the heavyweight solution will run well on the water...if it does porpoise it should get interesting, fast.

    The ProBoat A3630-1500 Motor, the 36mm diameter 1500kv brushless motor, is the stock replacement Motor for the BlackJack 26 Brushless Catamaran from http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pro...rod=dh-prb3310.

  5. #5
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    how would i couple for example a 5mm shafted motor to the stock drive cable?

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    i am having trouble figuring out what size motor is appropriate. the link you gave me in backordered. ... suggestions?
    Quote Originally Posted by Make-a-Wake View Post
    If thats the 25 inch version you wont need much to speed it up quite a bit. I'd go with the two 2s batts you have on each side for easier CG adjusment, at 3200 mah they arent real heavy either.

    This motor should be plenty with that boat and you can keep the prop small to lessen the torque roll effect:

    http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s..._Inrunner.html

    or you can go with the 1500kv version and a bit bigger prop:

  7. #7
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    A 2858 to a 3660 will work........

    This 380 9xl on 3s - http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pro...380-xL&cat=116

    This 12s on 3s - http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pro...i-540S&cat=116

    This for monster power on 4s, 13L version - http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pro...i-540L&cat=116
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    I bought a 5mm x 1/8 Collet (Item # 529B30) from KintecRacing, for $8 plus tax/shipping from the page @ http://www.kintecracing.com/Collets_Couplers.html.

    There is some question as to whether one of the set screws grabs the flexible shaft in addition to the collet, or if it supposed to be collet-only. I think it is the former, but have not installed the coupler, nor asked Kintec Racing how to properly install the colletted coupler.

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    The coupler end with the set screw is for motor shaft only, Flex is held by coupler nut only.

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    Just a thought: decide how you are going to mount the motor before you order anything. It is possible...likely, even... that you willl put several different motors/ESCs in your Rio over its lifetime...and any number of props...but probably only one motor mount.

    For the right-sized motors recommended in this thread, you'll probably want to mount a motor mount in the boat.

    I also suggest that you decide whether you are going to retain the water-tight box before you get far: the box limits your options, but is a robust solution to servo & receiver protection. I kept the box and put in a Traxxas watertight servo for good measure, and a bit better performance.

    And lastly to go firstly, decide if you want to retain the dual rudders: a lot of brushless Rios run on one rudder just fine. If it is all about the speed, I'd think about one rudder. I kept the stock rudders for rescue/surf boat reasons. If you go with one rudder you can integrate the water pick-up in the rudder assy and remove the stock pickup [which is a tad close to the prop stream, seems to me]. I added an Octura thru-hull pickup as a consequnce of retaining the stock rudders...and not being impressed with the stock pickup's performance.

    Every brushless Rio I have seen has taken a slightly/drastically different approach to mounting a motor mount, whereas my boat retains the original motor mount to minimize the chance that the motor action will crack the hull: I left the stock mount in for stress distribution, and modified the stock mount to fit the motor with water jacket. The motor sits very nicely in the tape I used to seal the mount, such that the strap will not have to carry all the load.

    Retaining the stock motor mount led me to the ProBoat motor/water jacket combo as the best natural fit to the stock mount, and in turn to the corresponding ProBoat ESC. I would not have ordered the ProBoat ESC if I realized how heavy it was...but perhaps it will reward me with reliability.

    And the size of that ProBoat ESC drove me to a layout that...well...where I had no choice but to go 6S for weight & balance & logistics. That's my story and I am sticking to it.

    Craft wood spacers...between the strap and the mount...are in the works, with intent to shape them to fit the motor: you can get a glimpse of them in the photos @ http://s985.photobucket.com/albums/a...ProBoat%20ESC/

    Rio stock mount mod for ProBoat motor photos start @ http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/a...P/DSCN3212.jpg

    Rio strap mod for ProBoat cooling jacket photos @ http://s985.photobucket.com/albums/a...%20A3630-1500/

    Octura thru-hull water pickup photos @ http://s985.photobucket.com/albums/a...In%20Rio%20EP/

  11. #11
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    Thanks much Lenny!

    To be clear, the coupler I bought has two set screws side-by-side, and I take it that both of those set screws are intended for the motor shaft, even though only one of them can fit into the flat on the motor shaft. The other set screw would go 'upshaft' of the flat, closer to the motor, I would expect.

    529B30_5mm_x_one_eigth_Collet_fm_KintecRacing.jpg

    Using only the only collet to grab the flexible shaft means the shaft is held at one point along its length, which would minimize whipping by allowing the shaft to flex instead of fighting it, perhaps.

  12. #12
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    I see the couplers.
    Which motor do you think is best. I'm not looking for a mega speed boat, just a nice, fast, reliable boat, nothing thats gonna torque roll like crazy, overheat..etc.
    MOTOR 1
    MOTOR 2

  13. #13
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    You dont need a 1000+ watt motor in a 25" plastic boat. The 3656 2600kv is a good choice.................its all of the power you will need..........it'll fly.
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    Given your ESC is 60AMP (http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pro...od=dh-aqum7011), if you plan to run 3S then that XK3665-2150KV Brushless Inrunner might be a good fit at about 54Amps for 11.1v.

    You might want to run 25C+ lipos, as a minimum, for similar reasons, such that the ESC cannot outdraw the battery(ies).

    A good ESC/motor/prop balance will give you even temps across the ESC & motor, with some margin on the ESC being the 'conservative' design.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeOvercoat View Post
    Given your ESC is 60AMP, if you plan to run 3S then that XK3665-2150KV Brushless Inrunner might be a good fit at about 54Amps for 11.1v.

    You might want to run 25C+ lipos, as a minimum, for similar reasons, such that the ESC cannot outdraw the battery(ies).

    A good ESC/motor/prop balance will give you even temps across the ESC & motor, with some margin on the ESC being the 'conservative' design.
    There's no way i would ever recommend you run that motor with a 60a ESC.......................i'll step aside and let you and Joe figure it out..........................
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    Now that is a very very smart man.
    I think I would run run and hide !
    Last edited by lenny; 04-15-2013 at 11:17 PM.

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    I thought Make-A-Wake recommended that motor, but now I see Make-A-Wake was not refering to either of the linked motors, but a third one. I would go with a motor that draws less wattage, myself. I'm not impressed with the Aquacraft ESC's cooling arrangement, so I would go easy on that ESC. But web sites are not clear to me...as to what voltage they are running their numbers at. If you are trying to balance the ESC & motor, you kind of need to know. I'm sure one of the more experienced members here could help with more specifics.

    For reference the stock motor for the Aquacraft ESC in the UL-1 can be seen @ http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pro...ug7001&cat=115 and @ http://www.activepowersports.com/aqu...-ul1-aqug7001/
    Last edited by JoeOvercoat; 11-17-2011 at 09:04 PM.

  18. #18
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    ok. i put in KD36-60 motor, 60amp esc and 2x2s 5000mah (on on each side). stock everything else including prop.
    HORRIBLE torque roll, litterly barreling out of the water and leaning to one side. I tried trim tabs nothing helped. seems boat is too heavy in the water too. Any ideas?
    check out the video.
    VIDEO

    the boat leans to the right really bad with just barely increasing the throttle. it'll move ok at very low speed and verrryyy slowing increasing the speed, but at a certain speed no matter how i try it will prop walk or lean.

    If i punch it it will roll out of the water full 270 upside down.

    I will post pics also. I think the prop is too far in towards the transom i'll have to pull it out a bit and also what size prop should i try ? im running stock now.
    I have a sincle 4s lipo that I think i want to try and put on left side of hull.

    motor is 2200 kv. I have a 2600kv but haven't tried that yet, my guess it''ll do cart wheel and backflips with that motor.
    Last edited by aminoacid; 12-19-2011 at 07:04 PM.

  19. #19
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    Which motor is it............what kv??? Running 4s??

    If my memory is correct i think the stock prop is a 42mm diameter. Wish i knew the kv, but i think you need to go with a smaller diameter prop..............if you have the funds get an x435 and an x438 and try those. Start with the 435.

    The boat really doesnt look that bad in the vid...............go easy on yourself!! And remember you went with a very powerful motor!

    http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pro...?prod=oct-x435

    http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pro...?prod=oct-x438
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    sorry, i just updated the kv, 2200Kv to be exact on 4s. the esc i have is from a UL1 superior 60amp and i believe i can only run 4s. 2s won''t work

    which motor should I have tried?
    this current setup really isn't usable at all, the video does look much better than reality because I was giving maybe 15% throttle. then this thing leans to the right so game over, even at low speeds. I can get it to accelerate extremely slowly but at a certain speed it'll lean then i can't go any faster.

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    .......
    Last edited by aminoacid; 12-19-2011 at 07:26 PM.

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    I wasnt recommending 2s...................but here's the thing, the diameter of the prop is the main culprit in the torque roll. The motor you went with was also larger than i ever recommended but it can be usable. The smaller props will help alot.........heck, maybe even try an x 432........... A smaller prop will lessen the roll and also allow you to air the boat out with full throttle............ESC's dont like partial throttle and will burn up that way. If the props dont work, grab yourself a cheapy esc that you can run 3s with and try it, HKing selld some for like 25 bucks. Dont give up, it looks good.

    Lastly, if you find its just too much motor, maybe you have an application for that motor or can use it down the road.............or sell it for about 75% of what you paid for it.

    Here are other options:

    4s - http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...er_1350kv.html

    3s - http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s..._Inrunner.html
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  23. #23
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    more video
    V I D E O

    VIDEOOOOO

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    It may help if you dont "gun it"..............get it slowly up to speed.
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    it wont get up to speed either way. I was only pulling throttle more so you guys can see what its doing. If i slowly get it up to speed it'll lean to one side and prop walk,,,... retarded.

    I couldn't get it to a plane as you can see all the videos the hull contacts too much water even towards the front.

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    Your cg should be around 30% from transom.............can you move your batts back???
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    I can move them back about 3 inches excellent point I will try that

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    Quote Originally Posted by aminoacid View Post
    I can move them back about 3 inches excellent point I will try that
    The cg should then be about 6-7 inches from the transom...........you can hold the boat on your fingertips on the bottom and balance it...............or use a broomstick etc.........

    Maybe the cg adjustment and smaller prop will settle that beast down!!

    Just out of curiosity lemme know where the cg was...........
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  29. #29
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    When you move your lipos,
    Move left one 1" to the back more the right one.
    That may help with torque roll some,
    And mark where they are each time when you move them.
    And get some pictures up.

  30. #30
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    Also, Now you have a lot more power,
    So you will need longer turn fins to.
    I made my turn fins 1/2"longer and trim tabs 1/4 longer then stock the ones.

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