Blueprinting UL-1 Motor Wires

[properchopper]

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After having several UL-1 motors short out the wires where they enter the endbell ( due both to pushing the motor hard and the low-spec insulation these motors come with), I've taken to "blueprinting" these wires on my own motors. When Stephen gave me this previously run motor for the new Spec FE 30 I'm building for him, I went ahead and began the procedure. You can see in the photos that this motor was ready to go After removing the bullets, I slide 1/8" shrink all the way to the coils, and reinforce with another piece of shrink. " An ounce of prevention....."

[m4a1usr]

Looks good Tony. That guy was headed for a "show down". Polyolefin should work just fine.

John

[properchopper]

The insulation on the motor is stamped " 125 C ". That's 257 deg. F. I don't doubt that, given how hard some of us push these motors that that internal temperature
( not what gets measured with the temp gun on the can after retrieval and untaping) can reach these temps. While I'd like to see a higher (or more accurate) spec on the wire insulation and especially on the stator windings, these are good motors for the money and, realistically, were not likely intended to be pushed as hard as many of us do. Then again, the race goes on.....

[CHIEFY_44]

All i can say is thank you tony

[ray schrauwen]

Thanks Tony!

[jasoncyclone]

Thanks Tony, I will fix my UL1 motor tonight!!!!

[stadiumyamaha]

ive put new covering on my motor wires but never that far in. I will be now. Thanks for the pics showing how you do it

[Chilli]

Is this legal for NAMBA Spec Classes??

[properchopper]

Is this legal for NAMBA Spec Classes??

That's a good question. I'll check.

[Doug Smock]

Man I surprised to see this. Some of the "experts" say these little 50 amp motors will take 90 to 100 amps without damage.

Great idea Tony, I've done it myself on my O/B, because of the possible chafing at the end bell.

Don't let this give you a false sense of security guys. Remember, if you are heating up the motor leads like that, it is possible that there are " spots" in the stator core that you can't see. Keep pushing and you'll find them.

Good luck,
Doug

[properchopper]

Man I surprised to see this. Some of the "experts" say these little 50 amp motors will take 90 to 100 amps without damage.

Great idea Tony, I've done it myself on my O/B, because of the possible chafing at the end bell.

Don't let this give you a false sense of security guys. Remember, if you are heating up the motor leads like that, it is possible that there are " spots" in the stator core that you can't see. Keep pushing and you'll find them.

Good luck,
Doug

Very good point, Doug. Last weekend I had an AQ 1800 quit after some hard test runs on my tunnel. I removed the endbell and the wires entering the stator looked fine but I did the shrink thing anyway. Everything else looked good. Reassembled, bench tested with a 120A Turnigy; cog city & blew my extra cap. ( replaced cap & speedy survived).

What likely happened is that the laquer insulation somewhere in the stator core melted and caused the hidden, internal short. These motors are great when operating within their comfort zone, but won't survive too much internal overheating, and the only way to prevent this is to keep the setup within reason.

Mike raised an interesting point about spec legality. I know that its been an accepted practice up 'till now to replace the stock connectors with 5.5's, but going one step further by "blueprinting" the wires needs to be checked out. I will check it out now that spec ( or P-Ltd.) has changed from a club-level to a NAMBA class.

[Chilli]

I ususally don't stick my nose in NAMBA business Tony. I know the Spec classes are record trials eligible now and don't want anyone to find out the hard way. Some people might have a problem with opening up the end bell. In our district spec classes, we specifically permit any connector on the motor. Thats a great idea none the less.

Is the laquer insulation what causes the whispy oderless white smoke when a UL1 motor gets too hot? I was proped a little hot on one of my UL1 set ups. I would see just a bit of smoke at then end of a heat when I pulled the hatch off and the motor would be in the upper 140's. I dediced to kept the prop on and see how long she would last. She lasted about three race weekends before she died during a heat. It wasn't anything catastrophic. She just quit running during the race. By the time the heat was over, she cooled down where I could bring her in. Upon inspection I could smell the slight burnt electrical smell and see inside the motor that the windings were a little discolored. So I trashed her and proped down just a bit.

[properchopper]

I ususally don't stick my nose in NAMBA business Tony. I know the Spec classes are record trials eligible now and don't want anyone to find out the hard way. Some people might have a problem with opening up the end bell. In our district spec classes, we specifically permit any connector on the motor. Thats a great idea none the less.

Is the laquer insulation what causes the whispy oderless white smoke when a UL1 motor gets too hot? I was proped a little hot on one of my UL1 set ups. I would see just a bit of smoke at then end of a heat when I pulled the hatch off and the motor would be in the upper 140's. I dediced to kept the prop on and see how long she would last. She lasted about three race weekends before she died during a heat. It wasn't anything catastrophic. She just quit running during the race. By the time the heat was over, she cooled down where I could bring her in. Upon inspection I could smell the slight burnt electrical smell and see inside the motor that the windings were a little discolored. So I trashed her and proped down just a bit.

Mike, no prob, I'm glad you brought it up. Could be a "bone of contention" among the race crowd. I hope Brian and Darin weigh in - I respect their judgement and they had a lot to do with the birth of the spec phenomenon and rules.

I've had that "wispy smoke" before and chalked it up to lube smoke or bilge water boiling. Usually when the stator insulation melts it smells - you know that smell !

[Rumdog]

If it isnt legal to reinsulate your wires...... that make this sport kind of a rediculous joke. Really.

[Chilli]

It's just the nature of the class. Spec is a specialty class and specialty classes have funky rules. You should see what the rc car racers do in the spec classes. They are really hard core (sealed motors and motors that are handed out at the race).

[properchopper]

If it isnt legal to reinsulate your wires...... that make this sport kind of a rediculous joke. Really.

Really ? The spec (or P-Limited) classes specify certain motors. If, say, I was going for a 2-lap record at a NAMBA sanctioned race I'd know through testing what the most agressive prop I could run before melting the motor leads on a stock/spec motor. Then someone shows up with modded wires to allow a more agressive, faster prop. He goes faster and gets the record. The idea behind P-Ltd classes is to have motor parity, as best as possible.

In the now defunct LSO class, section 28/g/jjj/vi of the NAMBA rules state : " No modifications may be made to the motor. Except for normal wear, it must be run as shipped from the manufacturer."

In the Electric 1/10 Scale Unlimited Hydroplane class in NAMBA (which allows Himax HB3630-1500,Blackjack A3630-1500, or AQ 36/56), 28/C/iv/b states : "No modifications may be made to the motor. Except for normal wear, drive flats or keys,electrical connectors, and water cooling, it must be run as shipped from the manufacturer."

I don't have the rules for P-Limited motor specs but I suspect it will follow the 1/10 class specs.

I await further more learned input.



{ Papa BB, If I screwed up here, I deserve a good spanking . I'll even wear my little boy's sailor suit when you do it. Really)

[CHIEFY_44]

Well if you used the same color heat shrink how will anyone know

[properchopper]

Well if you used the same color heat shrink how will anyone know

STEPHEN !! The point is not to break the rules.

[Boaterguy]

So LSO doesn't allow water cooling or the addition of connectors? most motors come without connectors and are not water cooled.

[CHIEFY_44]

I understand that tony and im all for rules and will & do abide any rules, all I was pointing out was like every rule/law there is away to scheme or bend rules. The answer to one is aquacraft need to use better grade heat shrink, or make a ruling for a spec prop and have a specific timing everyone has to run, thats mpo anyways.
For the record I dont believe in cheating at anything and if namba or anyone turns round and says this is not allowed I will return my motor to aquacraft for it to be repaired, no biggie, but I thought the reason for spec class was to make it cheaper/easier for the beginer to race competively so adding some extra heat shrink to help stop motors burning up imo is no biggie, whats up people dont we want more people to join our great hobby or not, but like tony said in a earlir reply darin or someone needs to step in and sort this out ASAP.

[LarrysDrifter]

So LSO doesn't allow water cooling or the addition of connectors? most motors come without connectors and are not water cooled.

It allows for water cooling. These motors come in RTR boats that have cooling jackets on them stock.

[Boaterguy]

I see, it requires motors from RTR boats.

[Jedi Master]

ive put new covering on my motor wires but never that far in. I will be now. Thanks for the pics showing how you do it

+1. Good advice, thanks!!

[RandyatBBY]

It depends on the CD, If it is me I would say that the pictures tell the story! Maintenance to prevent future problems and in my mind acceptable.

[properchopper]

It depends on the CD, If it is me I would say that the pictures tell the story! Maintenance to prevent future problems and in my mind acceptable.

Randy, my fear is that reinforcing the insulation could allow the motor to better survive being pushed harder and be interpreted as creating an unfair competative advantage. No problem with sport running, but in spec racing all motors should have equal survival potential. I have a bad feeling that I goofed up here by illustrating a "mod" that very likely can be construed as outside the rules.

There was a very protracted and learned discussion regarding insuring parity in spec motors and the "teching" issue before spec was introduced as a NAMBA class. The overall consensus, as I recall, was that above all we must all be honest in conforming to the rules. I think that reinforcing the insulation opens the door to the teching thing, and I don't want to go against what's already been agreed on and start another reason for re-opening that discussion. I hope my flogging will be over quickly.

[ray schrauwen]

Or you are fixing a deign fault. Neu motors have chaged the way wires exit their motors because of past faults from wire vibration.

There is a point to which these motors fail that your mod will not help anyway.

[properchopper]

Or you are fixing a deign fault. Neu motors have chaged the way wires exit their motors because of past faults from wire vibration.

There is a point to which these motors fail that your mod will not help anyway.

Ray, you're on the money there from what I've experienced in toasting lots of spec motors. The stator windings will likely fail long before the lead wires, and the rotor will let loose before the leads as well.

[LuckyDuc]

I have added additional heat shrink tubing to my motor leads for 3 years now. I do this right after I solder new 5.5 bullet connectors on, and just cut the heat shrink long enough to cover the bullet and to extend into the end bell. It is quite easy to nick the OEM insulation and tear a hole in it. This is more of a general maintenance item IMHO. Worn spots can also develop quite easily on the insulation in out board applications too. I wouldn't worry too much about this violating the current rule set for P-Ltd in NAMBA.

[Doby]

Gotta love FE rules...ambiguity at its finest.

[egneg]

I have added additional heat shrink tubing to my motor leads for 3 years now. I do this right after I solder new 5.5 bullet connectors on, and just cut the heat shrink long enough to cover the bullet and to extend into the end bell. It is quite easy to nick the OEM insulation and tear a hole in it. This is more of a general maintenance item IMHO. Worn spots can also develop quite easily on the insulation in out board applications too. I wouldn't worry too much about this violating the current rule set for P-Ltd in NAMBA.

I have done this as well in my sport boats, but have not needed to in boats I raced as last year was my first year and our local IMPBA sanctioned club didn't have any races this year.