THe death of music

[detox]

David Letterman's favorite band
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rvbw...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crOZk88eCcg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87bcPisyTHs

[properchopper]

If ever one song speaks to all of us :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pe0U7rG3xyw

[egneg]

Mike Oldfield - Tubular Bells Live in 3 parts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9A60e16SvM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwctZ...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaygI...eature=related

[properchopper]

What's the death of music? This partially explains why older recordings sound better.

http://turnmeup.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=122114058

Excellent discussion pointing out how music marketers rob us of the realism of recorded music by compressing the dynamic range and moving the overall amplitude (loudness) of music to a higher Db range with the supposition that "louder is better". Dynamic range gives music it's ability to arouse the emotions (the real job of music) and once reduced takes the listening experience to a sad level. The other side to this, given the restraints imposed by broadcasting equipment requirements, is reproducing the actual dynamic range (mostly as it exists in classical music). The human ear can just detect (notice) a loudness increase of 3 Db {known in psychoacoustic terms as a "JND", or "just noticeable difference"}. Classical music has enormous dynamic range, so some compression needs to be done to make it reproduceable. Since amplification power also needs to be capable of handling this musical information, and it takes a doubling of amplification power just to increase the musical output 3Db (or one JND), the best way to enjoy the full range of music comes from a system with enough (amplifier) power to reproduce the huge transients occuring in music, especially live music.

This moves us into the realm of the analog vs. digital discussion. Digital recording is handled by converting source material into those little sterile, impersonal "ones" and "zeros" which are easily manipulated at the recording engineer's discretion. Compressing dynamic range and bringing the "averaged" level up to a "net" louder area pleases those intent in luring us into thinking "this rocks." Now, take vinyl storage of musical content. A vinyl record has analog content converted to striations on a rotating medium. Because the width of these striations translates to frequency, and a linear translation of said frequency would create striations that would be so large as to be imposible track by the phonograph stylus given their lateral acceleration limits, the range of frequencies (low notes to high notes) is equalized according to the standard created by the RIAA (Recording Industry Association of America). Then the equalized signal is decoded by a "reverse RIAA" equalization curve built into the phono input of one's preamp (which is why plugging a phonograph's output into an aux input doesn't work). For the most part, dynamic range is preserved, and given that one's home system has the phono tracking ability, amplifier headroom to reproduce the original dynamic range and the transient response of the loudspeakers are up to the task, you'll get the full musical experience.

Next up : Reproducing Ambience ( the reflected wave from the rear of the concert hall). Nah, I got boats to build

[detox]

Next up : Reproducing Ambience ( the reflected wave from the rear of the concert hall). Nah, I got boats to build

I can here this ambience on my simple FM radio listening to NPR.

A+ properchopper

[properchopper]

I can here this ambience on my simple FM radio listening to NPR.

A+ properchopper

Truly spoken. Musical enjoyment has much to do with "set and setting" - enjoying the groove often has nothing to do with the equipment, for sure. After a decade of immersion in the extreme, outerlimits of beyond "over-the-top" audiophilia, it's taken me years to get de-programmed so that I can simply enjoy the music instead of "listening to the system."

[Flying Scotsman]

I listen to the music but my system lets me enjoy the nuance of bad and good recordings plus crappy radio stations and there are a lot out there.

Douggie

[detox]

After a decade of immersion in the extreme, outerlimits of beyond "over-the-top" audiophilia, it's taken me years to get de-programmed so that I can simply enjoy the music instead of "listening to the system."

After discovering tone controls and loudness button, I finally settled on a 30 watt per channel Denon FM receiver with simple Denon turntable. Believe it or not, FM radio sounds awsome. I get that warm,well seperated, 3 dimensional sound.

[Flying Scotsman]

My tuner is a Cambridge Audio and yes there are some great FM stations but a lot are crap and yes I use an antenna to receive the signals. Also my system has no controls the preamp, amplifier etc. deliver the straight goods and please take no offence to this reply....I just like music

Douggie

[RandyatBBY]

I like my Rock and Roll with a Kicker Dual 2000 watt amp, Polk Audio 6X9 and two 10 inch woofers with two 6.5 to cover the mid range. I hear sounds in my truck I never heard before!

And those pesky kids do not stand a chance bothering me, Ha I can not evan hear them!

[properchopper]

My tuner is a Cambridge Audio and yes there are some great FM stations but a lot are crap and yes I use an antenna to receive the signals. Also my system has no controls the preamp, amplifier etc. deliver the straight goods and please take no offence to this reply....I just like music

Douggie

Never any offense Sir, but bear in mind that tone controls, or better yet multiband equalizers, besides being used to "goose up" the frequency response for individual tastes, are used to compensate for room acoustics. A room with thick carpets, drapes, upholstered furniture will soak up higher frequencies. Conversely, a speaker cabinet sitting on a hardwood floor will have the low frequency driver couple with the floor and yield a booming bass, particularly in ported enclosures. I use a Sony 35 x 35 watt(rms) receiver in my tiny apartment driving my vintage Advents, which at ear level need some tone-control tweaking to get the flattest response as well as compensate for my thrashed hearing.
Commercial FM sucks in L.A., but some college radio and public broadcast stations have worthwhile content although my cable service has a zillion channels of diverse programming which is what I listen to the most. Favorite channel 911 : the banner reads : "Groove to the positive cultural roots of Reggae, Ska, Dancehall, and Soka, intertwine in a blend of sunny Caribbean music" Jah Rastafari

[domwilson]

Excellent discussion pointing out how music marketers rob us of the realism of recorded music by compressing the dynamic range and moving the overall amplitude (loudness) of music to a higher Db range with the supposition that "louder is better". Dynamic range gives music it's ability to arouse the emotions (the real job of music) and once reduced takes the listening experience to a sad level. The other side to this, given the restraints imposed by broadcasting equipment requirements, is reproducing the actual dynamic range (mostly as it exists in classical music). The human ear can just detect (notice) a loudness increase of 3 Db {known in psychoacoustic terms as a "JND", or "just noticeable difference"}. Classical music has enormous dynamic range, so some compression needs to be done to make it reproduceable. Since amplification power also needs to be capable of handling this musical information, and it takes a doubling of amplification power just to increase the musical output 3Db (or one JND), the best way to enjoy the full range of music comes from a system with enough (amplifier) power to reproduce the huge transients occuring in music, especially live music.

This moves us into the realm of the analog vs. digital discussion. Digital recording is handled by converting source material into those little sterile, impersonal "ones" and "zeros" which are easily manipulated at the recording engineer's discretion. Compressing dynamic range and bringing the "averaged" level up to a "net" louder area pleases those intent in luring us into thinking "this rocks." Now, take vinyl storage of musical content. A vinyl record has analog content converted to striations on a rotating medium. Because the width of these striations translates to frequency, and a linear translation of said frequency would create striations that would be so large as to be imposible track by the phonograph stylus given their lateral acceleration limits, the range of frequencies (low notes to high notes) is equalized according to the standard created by the RIAA (Recording Industry Association of America). Then the equalized signal is decoded by a "reverse RIAA" equalization curve built into the phono input of one's preamp (which is why plugging a phonograph's output into an aux input doesn't work). For the most part, dynamic range is preserved, and given that one's home system has the phono tracking ability, amplifier headroom to reproduce the original dynamic range and the transient response of the loudspeakers are up to the task, you'll get the full musical experience.

Next up : Reproducing Ambience ( the reflected wave from the rear of the concert hall). Nah, I got boats to build

We have become a on-the-go society and seldom take time to "smell the flowers" How many actually sit down and listen to a performance on a quality system? Not as many as "the good ol' days"
Mass marketing, deceptive marketing, changes in lifestyles and constant stimulus from varying mediums, etc. Have shifted our priorities. We assume that a big name brand offers great reproduction because everyone else is buying it. Tell enough people that the sky is green, eventually some will start believing it. Music allows us the comfort of being individuals and truly choosing what we as individuals truly enjoy. I listen to both analog and digital. One is convenient and allows for a long uninterrupted session of enjoyment. The other offers an experience. You just have to choose what is right for you at that moment. I find older recordings in both formats offer a degree of realism that many of todays recordings lack. However, there are still some artists who insist upon good recording techniques because they know that their talents will stand on their own rather what is dictated to them by some recording engineer or marketing department.

Compression takes out the realism and impact of the music and reduces the power demands and other technicalities of today lower powered portable devices.
Lastly, in 1997 the FCC changed the way audio amplifiers power ratings are measured. It used to be that both channels had to be driven simultaneous across a given frequency range where the amplifier would reproduce half it's rated power. Now it just one channel driven at one frequency (usually 1 khz) that the amplifier will produce its power. Only a small few still follow the old guidelines. These are the ones that have the hefty power supplies.

[properchopper]

Well said, Dom. I miss my old Crown DC300A ; 150/channel at less than .05THD at ANY frequency you could dream of - all day long.

[Flying Scotsman]

I love this discourse...my amp and preamp are always left with the power on. As for tone controls I had a system way back in 1971 which had all the bells and whistles...it was crappy. I tune my system with cables, interconnects and where to place the speakers and always listening to a new item in my abode prior to purchasing it and as Tony mentioned your room acoustics have a huge impact on the sound.

Also compression has a huge impact on the quality of the sound as Dom mentioned....I am an old fart and I still close my eyes to listen to the music and not to some Lady Honk video...Justin you are a sham!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AhXX...eature=related


Douggie

[domwilson]

I love this discourse...my amp and preamp are always left with the power on. As for tone controls I had a system way back in 1971 which had all the bells and whistles...it was crappy. I tune my system with cables, interconnects and where to place the speakers and always listening to a new item in my abode prior to purchasing it and as Tony mentioned your room acoustics have a huge impact on the sound.

Also compression has a huge impact on the quality of the sound as Dom mentioned....I am an old fart and I still close my eyes to listen to the music and not to some Lady Honk video...Justin you are a sham!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AhXX...eature=related


Douggie

What speakers do you have?

[Flying Scotsman]

Snells and that company is now toast

Douggie

What speakers do you have?

[domwilson]

It seems that a lot of the good companies that offered quality speakers at a reasonable price went under. And some of mass produced crap started misrepresenting themselves as quality stuff. There still are some good companies left but you pay a premium for good sound. It seems everyone is trying to push small speakers.

[Flying Scotsman]

My audio system cost a lot of cash....my video seperate system has Mission speakers and a not to bad Sony receiver( $700. bucks for the receiver) but the sound from my main audio system is great and yes buy a record and not a CD
My Rega CD player is pretty good though

Douggie

[properchopper]

Feet Tired ? Wanna set those toes a-tappin ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqSLn...eature=related

[detox]

I am not a big Gary Numan fan, but I like this song written by him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30DMi866ThM&feature=fvst

[Flying Scotsman]

Bose is one of the crappy morons....all marketing and you can not get good bass out of wee speakers....some sub powered woofers are OK but you need two and placement is critical ...do not believe the crap you get from big box stores sales? people!!

Douggie

It seems that a lot of the good companies that offered quality speakers at a reasonable price went under. And some of mass produced crap started misrepresenting themselves as quality stuff. There still are some good companies left but you pay a premium for good sound. It seems everyone is trying to push small speakers.

[Skullcracken]

Bose is one of the crappy morons....all marketing and you can not get good bass out of wee speakers....some sub powered woofers are OK but you need two and placement is critical ...do not believe the crap you get from big box stores sales? people!!

Douggie

Im in my 30's, but none of my CD's or MP3's sound as good as my dad's 70's Technics turntable and vinyl. I wish more current music was still produced on vinyl.

[Skullcracken]

It seems that a lot of the good companies that offered quality speakers at a reasonable price went under. And some of mass produced crap started misrepresenting themselves as quality stuff. There still are some good companies left but you pay a premium for good sound. It seems everyone is trying to push small speakers.

I think one of the old school companies still makes the best speakers... Klipsch. Mid end price, for high end sound.

[properchopper]

I think one of the old school companies still makes the best speakers... Klipsch. Mid end price, for high end sound.

Here you go (you'll need two)

http://www.klipsch.com/la-scala-ii-f...anding-speaker

[domwilson]

Here's a tip...To really deep clean old LP's, I've used Titebond II on them. It really works. Google or youtube it.

[RandyatBBY]

Im in my 30's, but none of my CD's or MP3's sound as good as my dad's 70's Technics turntable and vinyl. I wish more current music was still produced on vinyl.

I am in my 60ties and love my I-pod and the shuffle mode. Or the ability to find artist by looking down a list. rather than scratching vinyl any time you touch it. I bought The Beatles Revolver album three times in Vinyl, twice in 8Track, two times in cassette and once in CD, then the CD started to skip. So I bought it digitally over the internet. I have it saved on four hard drives along with 5000 other titles. I would not mind being young again, but with the technology.

[Flying Scotsman]

Dana one for you and try and match it ...an old farts thought and yes I have posted it before, but this is a live perfonance

Tony, the toes are tapping is great

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFpfureaCVs

Douggie

[properchopper]

Dana one for you and try and match it ...an old farts thought and yes I have posted it before, but this is a live perfonance

Tony, the toes are tapping is greathttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFpfureaCVs

Douggie

Douggie, glad you liked it. I'm a huge Jason Mraz fan; His vocal virtuosity and gorgeous musical arrangements definitely provide a counterpoint to the circus-act junk being passed off as music these days. Take a quiet moment and enjoy :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MXLC...eature=related

"There's no shame in being crazy..." Jason Mraz from "Beautiful Mess " (above)

[properchopper]

Musicians rehearsing for next Lady GagUs video :

http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/vid...Nrll&gt1=42010

[dana]

Good one Doug... Def some talent there. I'll try and post some more modern talent later... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wUWZ...e_gdata_player.
Here's something funny for now lol