102 mph mono subs and smokes!

[Doug Smock]

Last but not least the most beautiful and original boat was in my opinion this "GLIDER"

BTW: it was n° 4 in the classification (159 km/h)

That's interesting. Any video of it?
Thanks,
Doug

[Punisher 67]

Very interesting

Ralf's 3080's has 12 outputs instead of the standard 6 , the only way to describe Ralf's boat coming out of the turn and into the straightaway is FEROCIOUS

[Ralf]

Hi,

sorry for the late post, took a long break.
but i want to comment some things.

We are normally aware of what speeds are realistic and what not.

The boat did on tests up to 110mph.
On the GPS there were 172km/h, equal to 107mph, not 102
Also i coupled two 3040/9 in it, since 09 i drive the 3080 and it cracked the 100mph many times on the GPS. And you learn fast that you can even drive 110+, but get it avg through the traps you have simply one problem: space

You cannot simply pull the trigger like you can do it with a cat.

Look at the distance jerry accelerated (this is for technical disc, do not interpret something mad...i congratulate jerry for his record and have a lot of respect cause i know how fast that is).
You have to accelerate a single prop electric mono with its potential accelerating power of 24kW absolutely careful. Something like a supersnake on ice

That was the idea behind driving a slight oval.

The boat crashed because there was some room left on the throttle. And i am a idiot and pulled it even the boat was already above 100mph and would had easy a good traptime. bad idea with that punch.

Dmg on parts were not that critical, escs and Motor okay. only lost the Lipos (10S2P).
The boat and its bottom were the critical part. And it is fully dead. Built a second one, but it is not running well.
Current was normally 500A+ in the staights.
Tried it with a 303.I did it some weeks before the Italy Saw, at 103mph GPS i reached the limit of the esc. Also a 3060/6 is enough for that.
But it is not enough through the traps for the small lakes we had.

We will see what is going on next season

Regards
Ralf

PS: this 3080 is in principle the same like two 3040. But a little more risky for the escs
This is why we did not make a lot of promotion of that. It is simply poker, try and error or whatever you call it.
It only works with one selected pair of escs.

[Punisher 67]

Ralf thanks for posting , I am going to be ordering the 3080/6 - 12 wire and already have the mount designed for it to use the dual old copper board 40/160,s . Any advice or thoughts you want to share using that combo .

What did you mean by this comment - It only works with one selected pair of escs.
- Did you mean that it only works with the V16 40/160's

Thank you

[Ralf]

Hi Peter,


hm, i am not sure if it makes really sense with a 6er. It is a soft motor, if you want to take advance of dual escs 500A upwards you need rrrreeeeaaaalll big props. I think it could be end in a problem with the driveability :)

[Punisher 67]

Ralf I am not trying for any records but do want a 80mph+ boat and I think a single 40/160 wouldn't handle the load , Right now the boat has a 3080/7 on a single 40/160 and I want to step it up a notch without having to buy a 40/303 to put up on top . This is by far a more compact setup than mounting a 40/303 on top like in the picture .

This is the direction I was going - If I was serious about saws I for sure would use the 5 turn 3080 .

again I thank you for any input and like Doug says below good luck next year - keep the cool stuff coming also.......

[Doug Smock]

Thanks for posting Ralph.

Good luck next season!
Doug

[Ralf]

Hi guys,

thanks, currently the motivation is very low.

Peter, i do not recommend using a 12-wire Lehner for that aim.
The drawbacks are heavy:
-You have to find good positioning of the parts because of the danger of interferences at that currents.
A single 333-setup is more compact
-out of 4 esc only one pair worked fine in partial and full throttle (and the schulzes are the best escs for coupling because of their smart software)
-sometimes i had crazy noise in the motor during acceleration and it was not coming from the drivetrain. i expected burning each time i drove that setup
-you do not need a 400A+ Motor like the 3080s for that speed, even two of the 160s.

Like is described: A 303, 10S2P and a 3060/6 was 103mph. And the motor was cool over 4x100m.
the 3080-setup give me the punch for 110mph+, only for that i used it. I would never drive that in a semi normal setup.

I read something like the germans seems to having too much money...now, i killed 20cells and a boat, thats all over 2 years.
Not that bad for the speeds i got and the fun it was working with. also, who said saw in t-class is cheap? What happens with a cat at 130mph?
But for fun i would think about the issue with the money.

It is much more easier using one esc like the 303 or 333, and a 3080 or 3060. If you want to drive 12S i would choose the 3080 too. Also everything is depending on the cellcount you want to drive (overall cellcount including p-wiring). The more paralled packs the longer the runtime the more important gets cooling.

I drove that system for max. 4x100m. No idea what is going on in long runs even at lower current.

It is simply a warning, do not misunderstand.
And for sure you have no guarantee for anything you do, wether for the motor nor the escs :)
Maybe you have luck and everything is working and maybe i am too careful. But that saves money

Order the 12wire anyway, because you can connect it standard too.

Regards
Ralf

[Punisher 67]

I really appreciate the input Ralf and have already decided not to go this route due to all the potential technical difficulties , I already have a 3080/7 for the Sniper build and will keep following this path . I just figured a Dual ESC setup like yours would be cool if it all worked .

[RandyatBBY]

Hind sight is 20-20. We have all burnt up a lot in our days of testing. Although it is costly and some times embarrassing you still have learned a lot in the experience. thanks for sharing Ralf, great in sight.

[Jeff Wohlt]

I'm still trying to figure out why he thought he could get away with that coming out of a corner as he was. She had to spin for sure.

[RandyatBBY]

I'm still trying to figure out why he thought he could get away with that coming out of a corner as he was. She had to spin for sure.

It was a instant decision, that in hind sight was the wrong move. He said he made a mistake in judgment.

[MarkF]

Very nice efforts Ralf. I know your pains in burning up equipment. I may try again to run my 10s mono and see what I can get. By the way what hull is that your running?

Mark

[jevmax]

Ralf I am not trying for any records but do want a 80mph+ boat and I think a single 40/160 wouldn't handle the load :

I ran a Lehner 3080-5, and then a 3080-6 on 10S-2P with a single 40-160 in a Sniper mono at the 2008 LASAWs. The boat ran easily into the 80s and beyond, and the 40-160 didn't seem to mind at all.

[Punisher 67]

I would have to say you got off lucky , My 2230/1Y pushes the 40/160 to almost 275 amps peak and I would say I am on the raged edge - I just don't want to push it any farther . In 30 years of running RC equipment I have only fried a single Astroflight cobalt 40/6 touch wood .

[Ralf]

I'm still trying to figure out why he thought he could get away with that coming out of a corner as he was. She had to spin for sure.

hm, maybe i don`t understand.
You think the problem was the cornering?
The boat was stable when going into the straights.

Already running straight, light and fast i used the throttle which was left (a friend of me said "go go", which translates into a fast pull of the trigger in my hands, even i knew that i cannot go faster). That punch lifted the whole back of the boat (you hear slightly titching), then the nose splashed on the water. Brain and fingers were disconnected tenth of a second

Mark, everything you can simply buy new does not matter. But invest 3 years in a hull which then is dead was the bad. It is a Virus made by Tom Lorenz.
Built a new one, but it is not that stabile and fast like the old one (got something around 96mph one way trap, 94 avg). Has something to to with the running surface even they look identical. One day fast, one day absolute no stability.
Looking forward at your work with 10S.

Peter, i tested the limit of the 160 (old ones). At 380A straight current (peak around 480A) you desolder some parts with two passes.
In my 1:6 Hydro i drove the esc in endurance up to 350A peak. No problem.
You can ignore peak, look at the straight currents.

[Jeff Wohlt]

Ralf,...it just looked to me that the boat really did not have time to get good and straight and settle before she was opened up but maybe that was just what I saw in the video. It looked like it hooked from where it landed that was why I thought she was really not straight when you gave her the power.Bummer to see the smoke!

[Ralf]

ah,. okay.
she was basically straight, the increased punch lifted the back, slight titching, and the torque induced instability to the right side, pushed the nose on the rightside into the water (hooks). thats why she landed far away towards right.

that was the impression i got on the throttle when i thought about it afterwards.

do not know what would be the better alternative: action like on the vid or a clear dive of the boat. Essentially it doesn`t matter, the hull was already broken and the cells damaged because of the hard deceleration when the nose hitted the surface.

[RandyatBBY]

ah,. okay.
she was basically straight, the increased punch lifted the back, slight titching, and the torque induced instability to the right side, pushed the nose on the rightside into the water (hooks). thats why she landed far away towards right.

that was the impression i got on the throttle when i thought about it afterwards.

do not know what would be the better alternative: action like on the vid or a clear dive of the boat. Essentially it doesn`t matter, the hull was already broken and the cells damaged because of the hard deceleration when the nose hitted the surface.

Rolling in to the throttle was the correct thing to do. I have seen it many time in SAW set ups if you punch it it causes prop walk extreme and spin out. .

[Punisher 67]

Peter, i tested the limit of the 160 (old ones). At 380A straight current (peak around 480A) you desolder some parts with two passes.
In my 1:6 Hydro i drove the esc in endurance up to 350A peak. No problem.
You can ignore peak, look at the straight currents.

Great info Ralf thanks a bunch - I figured with me pushing it to 275amps I was close - I guess I still have some room now

[Ralf]

Or say: no problem currently :)
You only have to look at the temps what is normal for endurance setups.

Regards

[ray schrauwen]

Last but not least the most beautiful and original boat was in my opinion this "GLIDER"

BTW: it was n° 4 in the classification (159 km/h)

Thats just..... I dunno? You have words for it?

[ray schrauwen]

Hey Ralf! Good to see you post.

Do you still have your 32" Cat with home made hardwaRE & ESC ?

[Ralf]

Thats just..... I dunno? You have words for it?

sick?

Hi Ray, hm, i never had a 32" cat

[ray schrauwen]

Sorry, had you confused with Gerwin...