Futaba 2.4 had a bit of an issue!!!

[Steven Vaccaro]

I've been told on more than one occasion that the Futaba 2.4 is much more reliable than a Spektrum. Please explain that to the gas guy at my pond. See pics

The boat lost signal and literally drove straight as an arrow for about 1/2 mile. It then hit the rocks and totaled. If it was about 100-200 left of where he hit, the boat would have hit a gradual shore and up into the play ground. The good news is that the radio is now binding perfectly again.

[tiqueman]

Scary. Ive been running a Futaba 2.4 for a few years now and have it linked to ALL my FE boats and never had an issue, except if the RX gets wet.. then it gets a mind of its own. Had that happen twice and have since stopped slacking and filled all my rxs w/ di-electric grease. Ive seen quite a few spektrum issues at the local club races. A lot of folks reference a "dead" spot but Ive never had an issue.

[GP73]

I thought they had a failsafe built in?

That's scary.

[tiqueman]

I belive they do, but it takes 3 seconds for it to kick in. In a stock 40mph boat, thats waaay too long, let alone all the other speeds we are running. Both times I lost rx do to water intrusion, the boat went full tilt at the shore line and cut out before it hit the bank. the first time it did it, 100 yards of clear shore line and it was going straight for the 4 foot wide concrete culvert. It lost powere and barely bumbed into the concrete. Talk about having to chage your britches....

[line6]

Thats a shame. but that one dont look like a fasst.



Jason Sims

[Steven Vaccaro]

No fail safe in this one or it didnt work. It ran for probably 20 seconds or longer.

[tiqueman]

Im using the 603FF's and Ive been told they have one and are on a delay... Ive never been ambitious enough about it to look it up though. I do know that the one pictured compared to mine is a bit less expensive.... I hate buying new Rxs.... Although, at the local shop, the last time I got one they had dropped in price by $20.00 or so.

[GP73]

Well you could test it on the bench, I have done testing with my Spektrum receivers and they do go into failsafe fairly quickly, but that kind of damage is still scary...

[fuse01]

i use FASST as well no issues . but i'm on the new RX 614 on 4PKS

[jcald2000]

You MUST keep any reciver dry, i use conformal coating on my ESC's and receiver's.
Plus if you use analog servos you must push the fail safe button EACH time you run.

[Fluid]

One failure is proof of nothing. The Futaba radios have become de rigeur for the gas clubs in Texas, although there are some Spektrum and Airtronics seen. I was the first to show up at a mixed fuel race with a 2.4 radio about 4 years ago and the gas guys all thought I was nuts. Now at a race with 75 drivers only a handful of 27 and 75 band radios are seen.

No radio will work with low receiver batteries, set up wrong or with the antenna shielded by the tuned pipe. The gas guys learned the latter the hard way and usually place their receivers at the top of the radio box. Some even extend the antenna for better reception. It is hard to tell from the photo, but the antenna exits the radio box quite a ways from the receiver - meaning less extending up in the air. Still, runaways are far less prevalent today than they were three years ago at 300-boat races. All the ones I've seen recently (very very few) were with Spektrum radios, but that does not mean Spektrum radios are bad. Human error is still the chief cause of problems.


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[Steven Vaccaro]

One failure is proof of nothing.

.

I dont think I said it was. I would be pretty tunnel visioned to think differently.

I'm just tired of hearing people bash Spektrum. I've been running Spektrum in cars and boats for about 4 years now. 0 failures. 0 run aways. Every time some a post comes up about the two someone will always say that they have never seen a Futaba 2.4 issue. Well its now been reported to them.

[Grimracer]

Steven,

I would place a bet that the ON/OFF switch gave up.. most of the gas guys just do not take care of there switches… the vibration is lower then a nitro boat and can be very hard on switches..

I can say "without even seeing the setup" the switch failed.. most of the time the switch will work again on shore and then if the boat survived they “Launch it again” Scary!

Grim

[Grimracer]

looking at the pics..

He put a budget FHSS system in a gas boat.. need more be said..

THE SWITCH!

Grim

[don ferrette]

I always find it interesting how as soon as a boat goes out of control the radio automatically gets blamed regardless of who makes it........

Now with that being said it's time for a few points to be made-

1- 2.4 RX's are even less tolerant of moisture than their FM counterparts. A clear radio box lid is not a good thing to have when it's exposed to direct sunlight like that one is. Even if the box is totally watertight the clear lid can and will allow for drastic temp and humidity level changes inside the box. This is why many manufacturers like Aeromarine tint their lids.
2- 2.4 RX's do not tolerate excessive heat and typically will shut down when too hot. As above the clear radio box lid out in the open like that is not good as well as it being a black boat. It's always good to toss a towel over any dark colored boat if it's going to sit in the sun for any length of time. This also applies to protecting a dark colored 'glass boat from getting to hot and warping, seen that happen a few times before as well to a newer boat left in direct sunlight. A 'glass and resin hull can take up to 6 months before it is truly 100% cured and can still be affected by excessive heat regardless of age.
3- 2.4 systems are all vertically polarized. This means simply that the RX antenna needs to be vertically mounted. Yeah there are those who are leaving the antenna laying in the box but to me that's like playing Russian Roulette with multiple bullets.
4- 2.4 systems have a tougher time dealing with metal and carbon fiber. This is why it's essential to get the last inch of the antenna above any metal or carbon fiber. The last inch is the actual antenna BTW, the rest is coaxial leader.
5- A strong 6 volts is an absolute MUST to power the RX. This is even more of a factor with so many people switching to digital servos which draw constantly on the battery even in neutral. I will not even consider running any less than 2000mah packs in a heat race application and most of my packs are 2500mah.
6- Do not rely on a "volt watch" type of accessory to tell you pack condition. All these things do is give you an approximate voltage reading which can change drastically under load. I also have seen on a few recently give false readings saying a pack was good when it wasn't, almost cost a well known boater a boat.
7- Spark ignition systems on gas boats are capable of generating way more RF interference than their nitro or FE counterparts. I have seen a gas boat have radio problems from nothing more than a bad resistor spark plug more than a few times. Extra care must be taken with these boats because of said ignition systems yet the gassers seem to cut corners more than most others. Still trying to figure that one out......
8- On-off switches need to be replaced REGULARLY! These are a moving part that see tons of use and wear out. I replace switches annually and use high quality ones as well. The switch is one place to NEVER cut corners. In all the years I've been doing this a vast majority of radio "issues" were from cheap or worn out switches or weak battery packs.

Now all this applies to any 2.4 system regardless of who makes it. Bottom line is in my opinion you can't "overdo it" when it comes to radio gear and is why I buy the best I can get. I've never understood the mentality of relying on a $50 radio to run a $1500 (or more) boat.

And I will still take a Futaba FASST radio over any other 2.4 system out there without hesitation.

[AndyKunz]

Don't assume that ALL 2.4's have the same limitations as your radio, Don.

Spektrum has receivers that are quite water-resistant and DESIGNED SPECIFICALLY FOR BOAT USE.

Spektrum receivers do not have problems with heat. We have published reports of them baking in ovens, working perfectly well, long after the plastic covers are useless.

Spektrum is used successfully in ignition-powered vehicles without any more protection than what would have been used in 72 MHz (usually with less).

Most of your other points I agree with - especially the $50 radio in the $1500 boat point.

I will still use my Spektrum radios in all my airplanes and boats. But then, I'm just a week bit prejudiced since I work on the design team.

Andy

[detox]

Eliminate the switch. I plug my rx batteries into receiver before running.

My FE boat once died on the water (no steering or throttle). The 1600mah receiver batteries were low.

[LuckyDuc]

Steven,

I would place a bet that the ON/OFF switch gave up..

Grim

That's what my money is on. I've seen it first hand too.
I don't use switches anymore. I use bullet connectors and a wire loop to close/open my Radio box circuit.

[don ferrette]

Don't assume that ALL 2.4's have the same limitations as your radio, Don.

Spektrum has receivers that are quite water-resistant and DESIGNED SPECIFICALLY FOR BOAT USE.

Spektrum receivers do not have problems with heat. We have published reports of them baking in ovens, working perfectly well, long after the plastic covers are useless.

Spektrum is used successfully in ignition-powered vehicles without any more protection than what would have been used in 72 MHz (usually with less).

Most of your other points I agree with - especially the $50 radio in the $1500 boat point.

I will still use my Spektrum radios in all my airplanes and boats. But then, I'm just a week bit prejudiced since I work on the design team.

Andy

Sorry Andy but I've seen every issue I've listed happen to Spektrum radios as well including serious range problems in the recent past. Unlike yourself I made it a point to not address any single manufacturer in regard to the 8 recommendations I made but have seen any number of them happen on boats with different brands of radio systems in them. Sounds like you guys have now addressed the issues that earlier plagued the Spektrum 2.4 radios and kudos to you and your design team.

[AndyKunz]

We haven't had any problems with the Marine systems.

Perhaps you are referring to the (wrong) usage of Spektrum Surface (car, SR-series) receivers in Marine applications. The Marine radios were one of the first projects I worked on when I got here; prior to that we (engineering) had not recommended use of car products on the water.

Andy

[Fluid]

Eliminate the switch. I plug my rx batteries into receiver before running.

This doesn't work for gas boats. Most guys will not open their radio box during a day of racing, they need an external switch.


To clarify, when I noted the failure of Spektrum radios in my above post, I have no idea if they were the marine version or not. Frankly, based on how gassers seem to cut corners more than most others with their radios, I'd guess they were not marine versions.

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[don ferrette]

We haven't had any problems with the Marine systems.

Perhaps you are referring to the (wrong) usage of Spektrum Surface (car, SR-series) receivers in Marine applications. The Marine radios were one of the first projects I worked on when I got here; prior to that we (engineering) had not recommended use of car products on the water.

Andy

That's good to know, it's shame it took as long as it did for that information to get out. More than a few unhappy boaters looking for answers got told differently by Spektrum folks before it was said to not use them for boats (and those stories were posted on various "marine" forums). Most likely explains why you guys are still digging out from the bad rap that exists to this day. Glad to see that it appears it will no longer be the case with the Spektrum radios.

[LuckyDuc]

Here is an example of my external switch for my IC boat radio boxes. Nice, simple, and reliable.

[Fluid]

Elegant solution. Too bad few gas guys can solder reliably.....




.

[Grimracer]

We haven't had any problems with the Marine systems.

Perhaps you are referring to the (wrong) usage of Spektrum Surface (car, SR-series) receivers in Marine applications. The Marine radios were one of the first projects I worked on when I got here; prior to that we (engineering) had not recommended use of car products on the water.

Andy

Andy.. it has been working out better.. maybe it was the "Crash Investigation Team"

Grim

[tiqueman]

I also will say that I am running one Spektrum controlled boat (Mr3000) and have not had any issues with it. It is the unit that comes w/ the Proboat Geico. I did have steering gitters once but thats because I hit something in the water, blew the strut all outta whack and water intruded up the shafts and the rx and servo got sprayed as water slung around the hull. Within an hour it all worked fine. Although a lesser expensive unit, I do wish it had model memory as I do enjoy the radio. But Ive always had Futaba radios and very rarely have had an issue.

At some point or another something is going to fail, whether maintained or not, its electronics. Back in the day, I was one of those who would run a $1500. gasser and a $80 radio. Its the best I could do at the time. And even at that, I had a couple Rxs go under salt water and still use them today. They were FM type RXs and that was over 10 years ago. I still dont run the best of the best, but I love my Futaba Fasst 2.4 T3PM radio.

I can see this becoming a "Chevy vs Ford" type battle. I think as for brand, run what you can afford, run whats well suited for your application and maybe even run whats available in your LHS so its easy to pick up spare rxs etc..... At some point you may encounter a problem, but try and figure out what it was (switch, water, impropper install, etc) and move on to fix the issue. The older I get in life, Im finally begginning to accept that $h1t happens..... and focus more on why and how not to let it happen again.

[tiqueman]

Here is an example of my external switch for my IC boat radio boxes. Nice, simple, and reliable.

Thats a fantastic idea.... very clean. If I ever run my gassers again, looks like I have something to do to them.....

[AndyKunz]

Elegant solution. Too bad few gas guys can solder reliably.....

<flame suit on>

It's not just nitro and gas boaters that can't solder well, Jay!

Andy

<keeping flame suit on :) >

[siberianhusky]

I was very surprised how quickly 2 digital servos would drain a 6v AAA rx pack in my JAE 12.
Very easily could have turned ugly. As they say ignorance is bliss though.
So far never had an issue with my Spektrum that I honestly can't attribute to user error, bad antennae routing the two times funky things have happened, once blocked by the pipe on the rigger, once in a SV27 the antennae would go below the water line in sharp turns, both times extending the antennae properly above the hull completely eliminated the problems.
About 20 years ago I had a complete write off of a HotShot 3.5 running a Cox/Sanwa AM radio, full tilt left turn into the stone shoreline. Toothpicks everywhere! Changed to a Futaba Magnum SPort, ran that until I tried the Spektrum, this is my second season with it.
LOL I've owned a grand total of 3 radios in over 25 years!

[ron1950]

gas guys here in mississippi and louisanna all poo poo the spectrum....they all say they have seen guys with spectrum radio's have problems...i say when and its always a few years ago.....i asked if they ever tryed the marine recivers always get same answer,,NO.....i love my spectrum dx3r for my cars and dx3s for my boats...never in 6 years of oval car racing and boats have i ever had a problem with my spectrum radios at all......wish i had about 3 more mr3000 recivers is all i can say...when i put 800 dolllars in a boat i want to be able to trust the radio and that is exactly what i get from spectrum radio's i even put a spectrum decal on my tunnel boat and i dont usually put any free advertising on any of my stuff but i am sold on spectrum