feigao vs ammo

[chunt92]

mysv 27 is gettin only 38.9 mph i know its a prop issue any recomendations . ammo 2300 smc 2c 5000 lipos 2 pacs. hydra120 using a ballanced and shapened GrimRacer 40x52 3-Blade. also what should the settings be as far as timming and the current limmiter should it be disabbled? some people are saing it should be 48.9 so what am i doing wrong? is ammo 2300 not as good as a feigo and is it worth the extra cash 4 a hacker or a neu motor?

[chunt92]

here's some pics if it helps?

[andym]

Disable the currant limiter, with 20c 2p it is not an issue and try a m445. The way the currant limiter works it will never allow the esc to run flat out and this can cause more heat.

[kin]

i just got her GR 40x53/3 prop and the rest on stock cond, runing 2s 500mah lipos , yet to see the diff on the from stock props , and soon planning to get hydra 120 and feigao 9xl motors , i think as for me this would be the ideal set up for a very fast sv already ...

[chunt92]

ill give the limmiter a try this weekend i dont have a m445 i guess a m447 is to big? the reson i ask about that is i have it. and what about the timming low normal?

[obrien]

I would try the x642. I know of a couple of people running that prop on the SV and love the way the boat runs. From what I have seen with my buddies SV, it seems the grim racer props have alot of bow lift. I am going to try and get him to run my 642 once we get a chance to get back out.

[Ctonez]

Chunt - How do you know it's a prop issue?

I run a barracuda 125...basically the same ESC as you.
I run the Ammo 2300kv...same as you.
I prefer the 437/3 blade (smaller prop)because I race in an oval, but I still get 48+ on the GPS.
the 440/3 blade is basically the same as the grim prop, and I get 52+ with that prop...which is too much for the hull, and the reason i run the 437/3, but either way, 38.9 w/ the Ammo 2300 and lipos is too slow.

What temps are you seeing?
How often do you lube the drive cable?
Is the stuffing tube aligned correctly?

I'd look at the drive line, not the prop as the main slowing factor.

...unless that grim 40x52/3 is a big pig anchor of a prop, but I don't see how that'd cost you 10mph+ on this setup.

[chunt92]

437 prop tests.temps on the motor was warm with batts. about the same i can hold my hand over the end of the motor and keep it there.i cant get an accrate reading due to the water cooler covers the whole motor (water shoots out about a foot and a half)the drive ling is almost purfect as far as alighnment the shaft is very easy to turn and gets lubed every day after a run. i only have a set of lipos. i took a vacation day at work to run it this afternoon and did some prop changes the 437 was 39.2 the grim was 37.5 and i tried a m447 39.6and that was a big and costly mistake all of this was with the timing on normal and the current limeter off. the motor seized up u could smell some thing burned got it home unpluged the motor and hooked up a castle creations motor from a emaxx just to see if the speedo was ok then the smoke rolled. so it needs to be sent back. ill post some vids on utube tonight.

[SweetAccord]

Try to remove the right rear turn fin unless you need to turn at high speeds. If you are just running straights, remove it, you should gain 1-2 MPH Don't unscrew from the bracket off the SV either, just remove the one screw that is holding the fin.

By your pic, your water pickup maybe causing a drag too, maybe losing 1-2 MPH? Try to move it up more looks kinda deep/low, or go to the water pickup on the rudder. without changing any props yet, see if you gain on that alone. Or go for the prop changes already recommended, get an average speed and from there try the changes mentioned.

Good luck!

[chunt92]

its gona be a while both the motor and speedo are cooked im uploading some vids on utube as we speak and after that ive got some pretty cool looking pics of the motor and speedo tring to keep a good frame of mind couse its probably gonna cost at least 150 bucks to fix my mess lol.

[SweetAccord]

Ugh on the fixing the mess. Sorry to read that .

Oh hey, also check that they flex cable is very free and not binding. Should move pretty freely by hand.

Also, some report a gain in speed by not using the teflon liner and just run the cable bare. It does make it more free, but not sure HOW much gain is attained by that alone, if any really .

[chunt92]

it felt pretty good before and after the run i just checked it. very little resistance.

[SweetAccord]

Kewl, when you can run it, try what I mentioned. I've also found threads where "scuffing" the bottom of the boat allows more speed too. Don't know if you have ever heard of that or have done that one. I won't do that to mine unless the gain is dramatic!

[chunt92]

yes ive tried it on my minivee it seemed to help but it wasnt much.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMTYd0Vk5t8 this is the second fastest 39.2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrDQW0WWaYU this was the grim prop at 37.5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCrzMHF3e3cand last was the killer lol. m447 at 39.6
pics comming soon..

[chunt92]

hope i get mony back on my taxes lol some one posted a reply about the temps how can i get an accurat reading. in one of the pics it shows how long the motor is compared to the water cooler i know people check them but i dont know how?

[Dale Koblitz]

Get an IR temp gun and point it at the ends of the motor, at the batterys, and at the esc.

[Dale Koblitz]

i just got her GR 40x53/3 prop and the rest on stock cond, runing 2s 500mah lipos , yet to see the diff on the from stock props , and soon planning to get hydra 120 and feigao 9xl motors , i think as for me this would be the ideal set up for a very fast sv already ...

What kind of run-times and speeds do you get with 500mah lipo's Must have meant 5000mah I hope.

[Dale Koblitz]

yes ive tried it on my minivee it seemed to help but it wasnt much.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMTYd0Vk5t8 this is the second fastest 39.2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrDQW0WWaYU this was the grim prop at 37.5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCrzMHF3e3cand last was the killer lol. m447 at 39.6
pics comming soon..

A 447 is way to big for that set-up you overloaded the motor and esc. Even with the stock set-up a 447 is to big. I wouldn't run over a 445 stock and with a hotter motor you would whant to start with a 437 not 447 and if temps are ok try a 440 or maybe a 442. This is my guess anyway. Motors need to run in the sweat rpm zone and if you gear tham up to much you will actually loose speed and even smoke something like you did. A higher KV motor would need a smaller prop and some motors just run differently as far as speed and torque go. You need to start small and watch temps very closely like after every minuite or 2 with a new prop or motor till you see how its reacting to the changes. Then when you find the sweet spot

[Dale Koblitz]

Hey, SweetAccord grim never got back to me but I read this and thought of you http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7029385/tm.htm
If you whant speed here you go! It might cost a little more but it's FAASSST.

[chunt92]

thanks dale. whats the temps on motor and speedo supost to be, max or dont exceed what? I think it was ctones is running the same set up that i have (ammo2300 lipos x437 typically 45-48mph) and im 10mph off? hes runing 2 turn funs one on each side so hes got more drag my trim tabs are maybe 2degs. down toward water. I just dont see whare my speed is lost?

[Ctonez]

thanks dale. whats the temps on motor and speedo supost to be, max or dont exceed what? I think it was ctones is running the same set up that i have (ammo2300 lipos x437 typically 45-48mph) and im 10mph off? hes runing 2 turn funs one on each side so hes got more drag my trim tabs are maybe 2degs. down toward water. I just dont see whare my speed is lost?

Yeah, that was me...been offline 'til now.
Sorry to hear you burnt some parts. Everybody does though, even the best, most experienced racers.
I re-examined your pics after reading about the suggestion to shorten the water pickup...I agree with that point...there is waaay too much tube hanging below the edge of the transom, and that could be scrubbing alot of speed. I use the stock rudder pickup on both my SV's. opened a bit, bigger tubing, OSE jacket.
Also, it's hard to tell from the pics, but is it possible your rudder bracket is slightly misaligned? It looks slightly off canter in pic #2. I've seen many of these be askew after a rough tumble. Many of the screws need to be retightened every few runs.
Another thing you do different than me is the ESC settings. I set my Barracuda 125 at the lowest setting...not sure about the current limiter...I never adjusted that.
My tabs are nearly O Deg. - the right side tab is -1 Deg.
you can get a temp reader at most hobby stores, and nicer ones at hardware/electronics stores. Always check temps, especially when trying props. I check temps of motor/ESC/batteries after every run.
The m445 was too big for the Ammo, let alone the M447. Those props are pushing the stock motor, and that motor has a much lower KV and torque than the AMMO, and can handle bigger props. On the same prop the Ammo heats up the entire system more than the stock motor...IME.
Temps on motor above 150 are no good.
Temps on ESC over 120 are not good.
Temps on (Lipo)batteries over 140 are not good.
These are just guidelines, refer to manufacturer for specifications.
My entire system rarely sees over 100 Degrees...except batteries, but that's intentional.

[Dale Koblitz]

First of all your running SMC 2s 5000mah 20c lipo's right? Because I saw 500mah and 2c which wouldn't even move the SV. As far as your speed problem goes unless you got a bad motor to begin with I would say the only thing that could rob 10mph would be an allignment issue. Are you certain that the stuff tube is allmost perfectly aligned with the motor shaft and does it slide right into the coupler? Do you have different batterys to try? Are you ballancing your props? This wouldn't make that big of a difference but only use a light coat of grease on the flex and prop shaft don't pack the stuff tube full. Where are you running your boat? Is it perfectly calm all the time? Boats run faster in light chop or loose water! Hows your set-up, is your trim tabs or strut way down? Are you sure your gps is accurate? That boat seemed to be going pretty well in the vidio. Go for a ride in the car and check the gps acuracy just to make sure. If everything I mentioned checks out then I'de guess you had a bad motor or esc, but I doubt it. It's hard to trouble shoot a boat w/o seeing it in person. Good Luck!

[chunt92]

the batts. are 5000mah. 22c 2cells per pack. i did check the gps in the car and still in the boat but with the lid off of the boat i will check the alignment both motor and rudder again i will say the grease was put in pretty heavy (stuffed) (AMSOIL#2 LITHIM COMPLEX heavy duty synthetic grease)also the picup tube is cut at a fairly sharpe angle so the intrance to the tube is right at the bottom of the hull ill posta pic but i work second shift so itll be late.

[SweetAccord]

Thanks Dale Koblitz for thinking of me! Thanks for the info!

[SweetAccord]

yes ive tried it on my minivee it seemed to help but it wasnt much.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMTYd0Vk5t8 this is the second fastest 39.2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrDQW0WWaYU this was the grim prop at 37.5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCrzMHF3e3cand last was the killer lol. m447 at 39.6
pics comming soon..

Great video, nice speeds chunt92!

[Ctonez]

again i will say the grease was put in pretty heavy (stuffed) (AMSOIL#2 LITHIM COMPLEX heavy duty synthetic grease)

sounds like you are over-lubing. I put just a light coating over the shaft with my finger and make sure I get the stub and shaft bearing too.
Not too much, just a very thin coating is needed...definitely don't stuff the tube.

[SweetAccord]

If you look at the pic's he had 5000mah.

[Ctonez]

Great video, nice speeds chunt92!

...that's the problem though. Those speeds are nice if he were running stock, not really nice with the Ammo on Lipos.

[chunt92]

heres a few more pics take a look see what ya think. just wondering has any one tried cutting the rudder down about half an inch off the bottom?

[chunt92]

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