Diesel Battery Testing:

[Brushless55]

Guys very sorry I have not been able to continue my battery testing. Me and the wife just moved while she is pregnant with our first and last week she ended up in the hospital for a few days with pre-term larbor. All in all it's been kinda crazy for us last month or so with everything going on and we found out she has to be on best rest now until it's time to deliver. So lot's of crazyness to say the least and very sorry I haven't been able to continue this.

Hey bro, my prayers are with you guys!
I'll be running a 2hr set at Heaven Fest today and will lift up lots of prayers for you guys..

[Diesel6401]

Hey bro, my prayers are with you guys!
I'll be running a 2hr set at Heaven Fest today and will lift up lots of prayers for you guys..

Thank you so much buddy. Sorry for the delayed response. Heaven Fest sounds like something my wife and I would have loved to see. Hope your set went good. Interested in what type of music you play?

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk

[Paul Susbauer]

There is definitely a difference in punch out of the hole with warming the cells up prior to use , the internal resistance of the cells goes down so in essence even though they go out warmer the usually come back in cooler . that has been a real world observation that we have seen . Warming the cells to about 100* - 110* is also better for them

I'd back up this statement. I've seen diminished performance on lipos even in air temps of 60-70 degress, vs when running in 80+ degrees. I've warmed them up to the 100-110 range also, works well. I think it actually winds up stressing the pack less as you've allowed it to work more efficiently. The final running temp never is higher than when I just run the packs cold.

[Brushless55]

Thank you so much buddy. Sorry for the delayed response. Heaven Fest sounds like something my wife and I would have loved to see. Hope your set went good. Interested in what type of music you play?
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk

I was mixing for Rachel Nicole at the 24/7 worship tent
I have mixed for about 16years now, and mix for all kinds of music
and POD kicked butt at the event!

[FloatDaBoat]

Insaniac:

It may balance while disharging at levels above 3.0 volts, which is the default cut-off voltage for this charger. I haven't verified that, as I was discharging the packs until the charger auto terminated (Bad Idea). It would be nice if the discharge voltage cut-off could be set to 3.2 volts. I checked at A Main Hobbies' website [ProTekRC distributor] for any Firmware updates, but came up empty. Also, I've been unable to access the PC based analysis mode - - anyone have any tricks or tips ???

[FloatDaBoat]

Are you discharging all the way to cutoff? In the storage mode it seems to go to 3.85v.
When you say PC-based analysis mode do you mean the graphs of the voltage, current & etc.?

I was initially discharging my newly purchased packs to the charger cut-off (3.0 volts) to try to verify that the new packs were not defective, but was informed by Fluid not to do that, as cell damage might occur.

Yeah, I meant the graphic mode as in your pic. According to the manual, channel 1 will support that function when temperature monitoring is set to “OFF”, but my charger isn't doing that. Did you have to connect the PC first to get it to work?

Concerning your “drop-out”, it appears to have happened at the ten minute mark. That's the default time frame for the charger to perform a cell count verification check in order to prevent continued charging if an incorrect voltage level was initially selected. I ain't got a clue as to why you had a mysterious “stoppage” on that pack . . . .

[Insaniac]

I was initially discharging my newly purchased packs to the charger cut-off (3.0 volts) to try to verify that the new packs were not defective, but was informed by Fluid not to do that, as cell damage might occur.

Yeah, I meant the graphic mode as in your pic. According to the manual, channel 1 will support that function when temperature monitoring is set to “OFF”, but my charger isn't doing that. Did you have to connect the PC first to get it to work?

Concerning your “drop-out”, it appears to have happened at the ten minute mark. That's the default time frame for the charger to perform a cell count verification check in order to prevent continued charging if an incorrect voltage level was initially selected. I ain't got a clue as to why you had a mysterious “stoppage” on that pack . . . .

Interesting about the 10 minute voltage check. That was the only pack I tried in the "charge" mode. All my other packs I put into "storage" mode and they all had to discharge to get to the final voltage.

I wasn't using a temperature probe when I hooked the charger to the PC. I connected the charger to the PC first. Then I opened the software and then I started the charge/discharge cycle. I checked to see which COMM port the charger software came up on; had to change the PC COMM port as COMM 2 wasn't available in the charger monitor software. Ended up using COMM 6.

BTW, where did you find the additional detail on the ProTek?

[FloatDaBoat]

On my initial attempt at installing 'Charger Monitor' on my notebook PC, I couldn't select between Temperature & USB Enable modes in User Setup as directed by the 'Help' Menu, so I didn't go any further. I ignored that portion this go-round, & the program worked OK. That part of the instructions must be some residual information that was applicable during the developmental phase of this charger that no longer applies. Chinese documentation has a lot to be desired!!!

I used the Temp Probe during my testing. In the attached Pic, the graph shows the exhaust temperature of my Notebook's cooling fan. The other is the info concerning the charger self check.

[G-UNIT]

I'v discharged my batterys a couple times on my Hyperion charger and it balances the cells while discharging.

[Diesel6401]

I'm back.... Sorta (still a whole lot going on), i plan on running tomorrow (weather permitting) and ran into some problems..

First problem comes with the Venom batteries. The very small bullets that are built into the case have started to migrate. These cells have less then 10 runs on them and only 3 runs in a boat and 7 runs in a Blitz. Not what I expected from $99.99 batteries.Both batteries are doing the same thing.

[Diesel6401]

Second problem came with my Turnigy nano-tech. This battery has less then 5 runs on it, when i plugged it into my charger showed connection break. I checked everything reset the charger and same thing. I hooked my small cell checker to it and it showed dead. I then checked the overall voltage with a meter and it checked normal. I pushed on top of the battery where the plugs are attached while having the cell checker hooked up and bingo it worked. I then tore down the battery and found a crack in a connection tab. I repaired the tab and cell now works. Those (like all my batts) are always properly stored and well maintained they where never dropped or abused or used in anything other then boating.

Video of issue: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skWXP2d037Q

[ksm2001]

Looks like you had a bad soldered pack, to bad. The Nano Techs seems to be great from people I know that use them and no problems. BTW nice solder job and the fusing aviation tape looks good. Thanks for all the work your doing and posting on the battery testing.

Ken

[lenny]

I had to do the same thing with some,
Just bad Q & C at the factory I guess.
But not just turnigy,
I had the some thing happen with Li-poly Enerland xq series 2s 30c 5050mah.
These tabs do not take the solder to well at all, Tried and tried not easy.
So I bridged the tabs with copper flashing held by zip ties and tape.
One year and still working good.

PS
Dale,
How are the gens working out for you ?

[RandyatBBY]

3 reason I don't personally like hard packs.

้้้1) these packs are a perfect example. You can change the end plugs, but not the plugs that the leads go into the batts. I placed 5.5mm bullets on the end, but where the leads plug into the batt still only 3.5mm, so if I put this in a high amp setup, that's going to be the weakest part of the batts, those small connectors aren't gonna cut it in semi-high amp draw boating purposes. JMO

2) unneeded extra size/weight. Sometimes weight is good, but when you don't want/need extra weight your screwed with these packs

3) hard packs are meant to keep the cells safe, but what about a submersion water will find away into those packs if fully submerged, my soft packs I can shake out of blow out with electrical cleaner and if really bad easily cut the shrink wrap dry out and re-wrap, not so easy with hardcases.

Also the hardcase takes up more space.

I have used 5.5 plugs and with 130 amp draw the plugs were 150f degrees after the run. Not good I believe they are supposed to be good to 150amps. I prefer 8MM plugs but the cost of replacing all that is need is restrictive.

[RandyatBBY]

At the top of the page there is a thread tools button, check it out.

I did not see them thank you. Very nice of you to take the time to help.

[RandyatBBY]

You did not put the run time on all the packs it is necessary to understand temptitures of the packs. The longer you run and the more amp draw compared to the discharge C rating the hotter the pack will get. A good pack will discharge close to it max C discharge rating and not get over 130F over the full discharge leaving 30% when done discharging.

I did like that you type in the results. I could not see all the graphs (on my lap top) even after I clicked on them. On my desk top with a bigger screen it was fine.

[RandyatBBY]

Now that the packs are broke in I would like to see some bigger discharges, more in the 85% amp discharge.

[Paul Susbauer]

Hi Randy,
Diesel sent me an email a while back saying he was taking a little bit of a break from boats for a little bit.

In my laboratory testing, you are correct, 130F is a good cutoff. The best cells I see never reach that temp until the very end of the pack, even when pushing them. I actually see hotter running temps at middle range Amp loads. Basically high enough amps to heat up the pack, but low enough that they'll have a long run. At the high current levels, the pack doesn't have time to heat up...

I've also found that some packs will give better performance the harder you push them.

Example. I've tested some say 30C packs at XYZ current, and then test a 60C pack at the same current. Putting their voltage under load side by side, they look about the same. Push that 60C pack harder, and it seems that it'll have the same voltage. If anything, I'll get at least a better discharge profile.

On the soldering to the tabs... you need a special solder to correctly solder to the tabs. Your run of the mill hardware store solder isn't up to the task.

--Paul Susbauer
Venom Group International

[Diesel6401]

Back from the dead (so to speak)....

Since my small break (not by choice, medical issues) I have been using the Venom packs in my Blitz with no issues, we know that the amp draw is a lot lower, but the migration on the bullet connections into the hard case has stopped. It does worry me though that it will continue if used in setups pulling 60+ amps. I am not sure if the bullets pressed in the case are 3.5mm or 4mm, and they are just not going to handle the amp draw without heating up to bad. They are without a doubt one of the biggest weak points of these packs.

The Motley Crew is a lot different now. New setup is a Swordfish 200 with a Leopard 4068 2350kv and a modified x447/3 that is now 42mm in diameter and detongued. I ran 3 different packs (no data logging), the 2s 6000mah nano-techs keep tripping the low voltage cutoff throughout the run they did not handle the amp draw well at all. The repair job I did though is holding up. The Turnigy packs are just so hit or miss. Also I recently read that someone received some Turnigy (non nano-tech) packs and the output wires where switched... Just terrible QC. With the same setup listed above I then ran 4s2p with some Turnigy 4s 3600mah packs and the performance was just fine which was to be expected with a 2p setup. I then ran the Gens Ace packs in 4s1p and no issues with tripping the lvc. Needless to say I was amazed. I didn't run the Venom Packs due to the migration issue.

I wonder if there is anyway that I can open that hardcase and solder on a larger bullet connector onto the pack or even bypass that completly and just hardwire directly to the cells to eliminate extra resistance...

[Diesel6401]

Did find this post this morning: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...7#post20861114

[Drax21]

I believe Venom nearly lost all of their business on Lipos a few years ago as their packs were under performing and sometimes failing all together. They are now using a different mix in the Lipos and they say that they can contend with the best. They seem way overpriced but I have not retried any

Diesel, In order of 1st 2nd or 3rd where would you put the Venom packs?

[Diesel6401]

Venom nearly lost all of their business on Lipos a few years ago as their packs were under performing and sometimes failing all together. They are now using a different mix in the Lipos and they say that they can contend with the best. They seem way overpriced!

Diesel, In order of 1st 2nd or 3rd where would you put the Venom packs?

Number 1: Gens Ace packs
So far without a doubt the Gens Ace packs are the best. I have tried them in sereral different setups and they performed without a issue everytime. I was impressed with how they handled the new Motley Crew setup especially sense the Nano-Tech which are a higher mah (5300mah vs 6000mah) with the "same C" rating. I suspect (just my thoughts) the Gens Ace C rating is more accurate then the Turnigy packs.

I use Gens Ace and Sky Lipo batteries in my planes as well and also have Turnigy packs. When I swapped from my Turnigy packs to a Gens Ace packs (same with the Sky lipo) I swear the plane was a whole different plane. The performance was increase was amazing, even my rc buddy who has been involved with all the battery information asked "what the hell did you do to thing" I said switched to Gens Ace his response was "damn it's a whole different plane". Now that's just a story no data noted or gathered, but the difference is very VERY noticable. In planes the instant "punch" is very noticable.

Tied for second: Turnigy and Turnigy Nano-Techs
I was disappointed in the fact the Nano-Techs struggled and the Gens Ace packs shinned. The Nanos are suppose to be HK "higher end" line so to speak and I have read constant issues about them failing and having problems then my issue with the bad solder joint came about so QC is still the issue for them. My old orginal Turnigy 2s 5000mah 40c packs are still running awesome though. In terms of price and performace they rock as well!

Third Venom Packs:
To be honest I expected more for the price, the bullets pressed into the hardcase ( done in other brands also) is a downfall on these packs in the boating world. I'm still putting cycles on them in my land vehicles then I would like to try again in boats, but I need to do something about the bullets pressed into case. They simply aren't going to handle the loads us boaters put on them. I'll be on "house arrest" for a few weeks starting on Wednesday (back surgery), in that time I would like to come up with some solution on replacing those connectors then I can push them a little bit harder.

Lot's all be honest the first thing we change on any rtr boat out of the factory is the deans connections and the small bullets on the motor/esc combo (especially on the PB motor/esc's they are 3.5mm and I think AQ uses maybe 4mm). The 3.5mm are only good for around 35 amps or so (i think) and the 4mm maybe 70amps max. So the pressed in connectors either 3.5mm or 4mm are being pushed to there full limits on a stock rtr boat. We all know that we don't stay stock very long in sport boating. Props get swapped larger esc's put in ect ect... All my motor/esc connections are 5.5mm on spec motor/esc's and 6mm, 6.5mm and 8mm on other motor/esc combo's that I have so there is in issue with the small connections. Until that gets fixed, using them in any of my boats is just pushing things to max and knocking on the possibility of a failure.They are hardpacks better served for cars and such, be we all know that are used in boating as well.

[Diesel6401]

I do wish (and Paul I am sorry for this) I was able to gather more information over the last year for your guys, but needless to say "life is always changing". I love my rc time, but that time (and extra money) has shrunk quit a bit last few months. A newborn will tend to do that...

[srislash]

Well maybe those that are interested can keep an eye on our packs and post on our observations here.I have a set of high dollar Thunder Power packs and some Sky's that I am paying attention to.Trying to keep the same cycles and same boat runs.So far the TP's sure hold a balance better.

I think a thread like this is important for those contemplating spending $170 on a single 4s pack compared to $40.

Hope everything is going better for you Deisel on your home front.

[Boaterguy]

I'll keep an eye on my haiyin packs. I don't have data logging but I have a haiyin 4S 5000mah 40C and a zippy 4S2P 5300mah 45C, i'll compare them.

[Diesel6401]

Well maybe those that are interested can keep an eye on our packs and post on our observations here.I have a set of high dollar Thunder Power packs and some Sky's that I am paying attention to.Trying to keep the same cycles and same boat runs.So far the TP's sure hold a balance better.

I think a thread like this is important for those contemplating spending $170 on a single 4s pack compared to $40.

Hope everything is going better for you Deisel on your home front.

That sounds like a good idea to post your logging here. Data is always good as well. Things are getting a lot better on my end. My son (now 6 months old) had open heart surgery back in November and is doing AMAZING! I myself am actually having back surgery this wed the 29th so all in all things will be getting back to "normal".

I'll keep an eye on my haiyin packs. I don't have data logging but I have a haiyin 4S 5000mah 40C and a zippy 4S2P 5300mah 45C, i'll compare them.

O I am very interested in how those will do. Been looking at those packs.

[Boaterguy]

the only way to get them here was to take ups or to fork over 75$ in shipping. it ended up costing me 50$ to get my 60$ pack here, but that's ups, not haiyin so I can't blame them.
it looks really nice though.

[Diesel6401]

the only way to get them here was to take ups or to fork over 75$ in shipping. it ended up costing me 50$ to get my 60$ pack here, but that's ups, not haiyin so I can't blame them.
it looks really nice though.

Where are they located at? Shipping my not be as much to the states...

[Diesel6401]

Thread I started on the Haiyin Batts https://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/...iyin-Batteries

[Boaterguy]

Vegas I think.
I will contribute to that thread with my findings.