Obsession with 6s

[Diesel6401]

All my boats run on 6s. For me, all I buy is 3s packs. Connect in series and put the throttle in rabbit mode. It comes down to simplicity as far as I go. As far as my land vehicles go, they run on 3s, so its a win win for me. But, I also know what kv to use with each.

That's the key Larry. Your not here running a CC1515 on 6s in a MG or such!

[bill34207]

Good thread Diesel. There are far too many newbies that tend to jump in over their heads and wind up totally frustrated. I can think of one of our club members off the top of my head. One that is now working on selling all his stuff (although he's using the excuse of wanting to spend more time traveling.) You should post this on RCG as well and try to get them to make it a sticky.

[Stephavee]

Im running 53-54mph on 6s with the stock motor/esc. so i would like to see alittle faster with a setup that is made for 6s. IDK what esc i was thinking a seakind 180? or on the bigger end would be a swordfish 240 HV, or CC ice 240? what do you think? And Martin, thanks i found all info on the motors but not sure what one is right?

[Steven Vaccaro]

Im running 53-54mph on 6s with the stock motor/esc. so i would like to see alittle faster with a setup that is made for 6s. IDK what esc i was thinking a seakind 180? or on the bigger end would be a swordfish 240 HV, or CC ice 240? what do you think? And Martin, thanks i found all info on the motors but not sure what one is right?

this one in the 1700kv version should work well for you.
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pro...?prod=leo-3674
You dont need a huge esc, a seaking 180 would be fine.

[Stephavee]

Thanks again Steve! i just wanted to make sure that my next $200s was going to be what i was after. FE is very cool because of how much power these boats can have, that 3674 will make about 1.3-2 hp right?! thats nuts!!! Yes this is a good thread for newBs like myself. Thanks guys!

[Goonboy2]

Great thread Diesel. However, I think the title "Obsession with 6S" could very easily be changed to "Obsession with 6S, 7S & 8S". Most people who read this forum will respect the limits of hulls and motors and ESC's but some will not stop until they fry their motors or split their hull like an over-ripe tomato. Newbies don't understand KV and amps and how they relate to hulls, motors and electronics - they just know that more volts makes their boat go faster (for a while). Those that leave the hobby in frustration would probably not have been the ones to come up with innovative designs and tweaks anyway.

[iamandrew]

I agree with the owner of this thread 1000%
Im so glad i stuck with 4S for my persuit, its overkill.
5S in the genesis is pushing it as well, the money savings on 4S is pretty good compared with 5,
ive seen a lot of youtube videos of the genesis on 6S doing 65MPH!! which is odd, because ive ran mine doing 75kmph and on 5S and found that its hard enough to keep that on the water!

[CatMan]

I keep reading this stuff and still having trouble understanding it. 1st it seems to stay away from 6S, then it sounds like it's better, when higher voltage & less amp draw to get same performance as 4s is used this way?
I thought i wanted to stay with 4S until I started reading about this high voltage/ low amp draw set up on 6S is that a safer setup? and how do you use 6S and get 4S performance?
Sorry but I'm an idiot on this high volt/low amp thing for some reason. I seem to be a sport boater, looking more for longer run times than all out speed.
So it probably won't apply to me but it's gonna bug me until i figure it out. I think for some reason that I want to stay with 4S ( i think im afraid of 6S)
I don't know if there's a diagram or picture? of this 6S setup someone can post to help me understand it or not but I've been seeing this pop up here and there and still cant figure it out?
Heck I'm not sure what the numbers in the pdf diagram above are?, if I had a 4S 2200Kv motor is that 32,560 number in green the rpm's? you should be trying to achieve when experimenting with different prop sizes?
Sorry to keep asking, but I've been looming around here reading everything I can. and still can't get the little light over my head to turn on, over this 6s setup. and have a feeling everyone will say....
yeah, this moron needs to stay with 4S (quietly, to yourselves) and that's ok I need to understand what I'm doing before i actually try and do it or at least learn enough to know why I don't want to do it.
Not afraid of speed, afraid of fire
Sorry to keep asking, I really am trying to just read more and ask less.

[CatMan]

oh yeah... thanks Diesel for re-posting this. I had not seen it until now, and didn't know it existed

[Diesel6401]

Catman a number of factors come into play when determining which voltage would be best for what application. Typically size of the hull plays a big part, but a lot of other factors come into play also. With time and reading you'll start to find out which setups work best for each particular hulls. Some hulls such as a Pursuit 32 can run on 4-6 cells very easily, just depends on which direction u go with kv. You can get the same speeds and same wattage on 4s - 6s, but the amp draw will greatly vary depending on which route u go. 6s setups will pull less amps, but cost more money for bigger cells. Best advice is too continue to ask questions!

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[Fluid]

Sorry but I'm an idiot on this high volt/low amp thing for some reason.

Absolutely wrong! No one is born knowing all this, like Diesel said, keep asking questions until you understand.

...I seem to be a sport boater, looking more for longer run times than all out speed...

You need to decide what is most important to you. Most seem to have missed the fact that you will pay the same for a 4S or a 6S setup giving the same run time and speed (except you may be able to get by with a cheaper ESC for 6S). The thought that 4S is somehow "cheaper" is based only on the up-front cost. If run time is important to you, then 6S is simply a better way to go if you can avoid the temptation of putting on more and more prop. If a low up-front cost is more important, then go with the cheapest, lowest capacity packs you can buy. You will not be very fast nor run for very long, but boy you will have saved a lot of money!

[detox]

I like the Grimracer or Hyperion 2s and 4s 4200mah packs. I can use two of the 2s packs in my UL1 (4s1p), one of the 4s packs in my spec rigger (4s1p), two of the 4s packs in my P sport hydro and P mono (4s2p), and combine the 2s and 4s packs for Q sport hydro (6s2p)

[Diesel6401]

This thread needs a bump. Some of our new friends REALLY NEED TO READ. Their has to be a end in site soon. This 2200kv motors on 6s craze is driving me bananas! New guys aren't getting it.... :banghead:
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[Stinger9D9]

This thread needs a bump. Some of our new friends REALLY NEED TO READ. Their has to be a end in site soon. This 2200kv motors on 6s craze is driving me bananas! New guys aren't getting it.... :banghead:
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With the new Proboat Blackjack 29 and it's stock 1800kv recommending up to 6s out of the box, don't hold your breath. If stock 1800kv is good, isn't a 2200kv "upgrade" going to be better?

Too bad they went that route - following the Spartan that started this mess.

[Diesel6401]

With the new Proboat Blackjack 29 and it's stock 1800kv recommending up to 6s out of the box, don't hold your breath. If stock 1800kv is good, isn't a 2200kv "upgrade" going to be better?

Too bad they went that route - following the Spartan that started this mess.

Yea I'm not overly pumped about that. From a Marketing stand point is prob why they did it, I noticed they also put 50mph on the box. SMH on that as well. I hope we get away from the 6s is the new norm phase. I'm actually so sick on reading about, hearing about and looking at all these freaking 6s rtr boats. Sucks, if someone is saying yeah I went to 6s to lower the amps that's freaking awesome, but no its "hey I wanna run 6s on my 2200kv motor".... so frustrating.

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[SldWrksGod88]

What about a Novak Ballistic 550 motor @ 7.5 turns (3000kv) with a Xerun 150A esc on 4S for straightaway runs? Does this fit into everybody's "too much power" theory? It's sensored btw.

[Diesel6401]

What about a Novak Ballistic 550 motor @ 7.5 turns (3000kv) with a Xerun 150A esc on 4S for straightaway runs? Does this fit into everybody's "too much power" theory? It's sensored btw.

Over 40k unloaded yea that's not good. That's close to the same unloaded rpms as 6s 2200.

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[SldWrksGod88]

Over 40k unloaded yea that's not good. That's close to the same unloaded rpms as 6s 2200.

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Why exactly is this "not good"? You are never going to (and should never) run an electric motor with no load on it. Its much less than 40k when you have the proper load. Thoughts?

[Diesel6401]

Why exactly is this "not good"? You are never going to (and should never) run an electric motor with no load on it. Its much less than 40k when you have the proper load. Thoughts?

Yea you shouldn't that's right, but in boating we use unloaded rpms as a gage. 25k-30 is typically a good avg for sport boating and racing. When you get into the upper 30s and 40s unloaded (loaded the drop isn't as much as you think), the amp spikes are to high which leads to pre-mature esc failure, the bearings in the motor start to go wear faster and the strut bushing and flexcables wears faster. You can try if you want, I'm sure you'll have fun (until it blows).

This isn't anything new. running boats at those rpms always ends in failure its just a matter when. Ask a SAW racer how many motors and esc's they've fried. That's why saw racing isn't for the faint of heart and isn't for the boater w/ a small wallet. I bet any money the number of people that have fried something is far greater then the number who are having success w/ it, you just won't read about because they don't want to hear all the "we told you so's). I just say whoevers doing please get video because I enjoy watching esc's smoking from terrible setups. Guys trying to run 5 minutes on this setups are just fooling themselves, then other people read it and it spirals out of control.

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[Diesel6401]

Scroll through the names on this thread, seasoned veteren racers w/ many YEARS under their belt some are boating legends and they're all agreeing its bad, why do you think that is? Why attempt to re-invent the wheel.

[SldWrksGod88]

Ok thanks for the input. I feel like I should have mentioned first I designed all my running hardware with the higher rpms in mind, including a custom machined prop (I'm a mechanical engineer) though. I was purely wondering if store-bought electronics like what I mentioned could handle it or should I design my own (you mentioned amp spikes?). There doesn't seem to be very much model motor design data on the internet apart from what you guys say here in the forums, so any help I can get is useful.

[Diesel6401]

Ok thanks for the input. I feel like I should have mentioned first I designed all my running hardware with the higher rpms in mind, including a custom machined prop (I'm a mechanical engineer) though. I was purely wondering if store-bought electronics like what I mentioned could handle it or should I design my own (you mentioned amp spikes?). There doesn't seem to be very much model motor design data on the internet apart from what you guys say here in the forums, so any help I can get is useful.

Eagletree is your friend or the ICE series of esc's. Data-logging rocks. Numbers don't lie.

The higher the rpm you typically need to run a smaller prop just to keep the amps in check, to small a prop mixed with high rpms then the hull may cavatate, too big a prop and poof goes the esc. Unless your out to break records, high rpms is just asking for problems.

* twins are a different story*


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[keithbradley]

I am also sick of the 6s stuff. I think 7s is where it's at.

You guys think the bj29 is intended to run on 6s? It must have a tiny prop if so. 50mph is not at all impressive for 1800kv on 6s. Maybe the ESC is just 6s "capable"?

[Steven Vaccaro]

6s is the way to go with the correct motor. When comparing 4s and 6s, running in the same boat, and wanting to attain the same speed, the Motors run cooler, esc's run cooler, batteries run cooler. What am i missing?

[jcald2000]

6s requires a 1250 to 1400kv motor and 6s2p for good life.

[Steven Vaccaro]

6s requires a 1250 to 1400kv motor and 6s2p for good life.

Jim I agree and disagree,

6s requires a 1250 to 1400kv motor YES

6s2p NO

Why would lower amp setups require 2p?

[Diesel6401]

I am also sick of the 6s stuff. I think 7s is where it's at.

You guys think the bj29 is intended to run on 6s? It must have a tiny prop if so. 50mph is not at all impressive for 1800kv on 6s. Maybe the ESC is just 6s "capable"?

I think the PB1500 would have been the better choice for going with 6s. 1800 is a 5s setup max in my book.

6s is the way to go with the correct motor. When comparing 4s and 6s, running in the same boat, and wanting to attain the same speed, the Motors run cooler, esc's run cooler, batteries run cooler. What am i missing?

Agreed, problem is folks aren't thinking like that, at all.

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[properchopper]

Yea you shouldn't that's right, but in boating we use unloaded rpms as a gage. 25k-30 is typically a good avg for sport boating and racing. When you get into the upper 30s and 40s unloaded (loaded the drop isn't as much as you think), the amp spikes are to high which leads to pre-mature esc failure, the bearings in the motor start to go wear faster and the strut bushing and flexcables wears faster. You can try if you want, I'm sure you'll have fun (until it blows).

This isn't anything new. running boats at those rpms always ends in failure its just a matter when. Ask a SAW racer how many motors and esc's they've fried. That's why saw racing isn't for the faint of heart and isn't for the boater w/ a small wallet. I bet any money the number of people that have fried something is far greater then the number who are having success w/ it, you just won't read about because they don't want to hear all the "we told you so's). I just say whoevers doing please get video because I enjoy watching esc's smoking from terrible setups. Guys trying to run 5 minutes on this setups are just fooling themselves, then other people read it and it spirals out of control.Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk 2

Well said. While, as I've said before, a well-balanced 6S setup has distinct advantages in certain instances, the main thrust of much of this discussion has to do with providing well-meaning caution to those that simply "wannagofaster" by bumping up the voltage from, say 4S, to 6S with motors that will have trouble at higher rpm's.

Here's my main concern : I've observed several comments from those that use the term "SAW setup" as a means of simply wanting to bump up their top speed (and there's nothing wrong with doing that) by duplicating a SAW RACER"S setup and then make pass after pass just for the pure thrill of it (again, nothing wrong with that) until the inevitable happens. As Mr. Diesel correctly pointed out, SAW RACING is a highly specialized and risky endevour. While data logging is becoming a must for a SAW racer, much of the procedure often involves pushing the equipment to the breaking point, then backing down a notch to get two back-to-back passes in to get a record. Kinda' like striking a match to see if it lights. And , here's the biggie : Most SAW runs are done in SECONDS. A run up to the lights at full throttle and 330 feet through the lights, then off throttle. If near or above the record, a second (or in rare cases a third and forth) run is done. It's over in seconds. My P-Ltd Offshore record of 67.771 mph was done in 3.32 seconds. I'd never run that setup for "fun". In fact most SAW racers don't bother with watercooling the motors ; watercooling takes time for temperatures to equilibrate and the SAW run is over before this takes place. And just for the record, for the enlightenment of those that are stuck on the concept that the only way to gofaster is to jump the cell count, consider Mr. Buass's TWO CELL (N-2) Hydro record of 103.3 mph on 2S !!

Bottom line : While bumping the cell count to gofaster is in the short run (yes I purposely chose that term) one way to get there, you miss the learning experience associated with practicing the essential lessons inherent in the fine Oriental Art of "Too-Ning". Just keep in mind Mr. Dylan's words : "There's no success like failure, but failure's no success at all."

Happy Days

Tony

[Darin Jordan]

I've actually been contemplating putting 6S in a Miss G and seeing if I could survive for Q-Offshore at the Nats... But then, I'm NUTS!!

[properchopper]

I've actually been contemplating putting 6S in a Miss G and seeing if I could survive for Q-Offshore at the Nats... But then, I'm NUTS!!

Hmmm.. Dem Q-Boats make big 'ole waveo's, Kemosabe Needum big wings like Eagle on Geico