Obsession with 6s

[Simon.O.]

One thing I have to say time and time again as I bang my head on a wall
Cell count does not automatically equal power
Cell count is volts
Amp draw plus volts eqauls power VxA=W

What I am saying is that I go for a higher cell count and lower kv to get the desired power, it is easier on all of the component of the power system right up to the coupler and then it is nominal.
The coupler, shaft and prop do give to monkeys nads what is spinning is as long as there is enough power and rpm coming down the line.

I am done with high amps and low volts, just too much heat and stress.

I am near through with having to explain this so often.

If some bell end sets up his new boat and smokes it without doing some reading and a little asking then I have very little sympathy! If that sounds harsh then I apologise now......do some reading !!

[Brushless55]

Most of us understand, but because of marketing I believe some of the new guys will be turned away by all the smoke...

[Alexgar]

I agree with Simon lv high voltage is great but not out of a rtr or budget build nice lipos motor and escs cost money there is no cheap way to a fast vessel planning and experience is worth more than the 800+ I spend burning down my pride boats

[Diesel6401]

Bump

[MSTHTD]

I have a boating buddy that embodies this principle, and the guys at the lake call him "Mr. Rowboat" ' cause he has to row out to retrieve his boats just about every time he gets them in the water.

Kind like this---> That just made my night, Thanks Properchopper!

[mrfabrications]

want to make sure i get this right 2200kv on 4's should get me to the sweet spot of 30000rpm?

[sailr]

3.7V per cell x 4 cells = 14.8V x 2200/rpm per volt (KV) = 32,560 NO LOAD RPM

I run the NEU 1515 1Y (2200KV) on my P Mono using an X447/3 prop. She screams!

[Steven Vaccaro]

I have a new word to use for you compulsive voltage freaks, "Voltageria" = "the act of over volting and under amping your toys".

[Diesel6401]

I normally do a range...

3.7 is nominal and 4.2 is fully charged. so i go:

3.7 x 4 = 14.8 and 4.2 x = 16.8

range would be

32,560 - 36,960 unloaded rpm that's just how I do it.

[mrfabrications]

Thanks wanted to make sure I had the formula right

[electric]

Always enjoy these threads. It took me a while to finally get a grip on the whole topic and after burning up some esc's and motors I finally got a handle on the whole equation. That said, for some people, who are not engineers, it does take awhile and some experiences to have it all make sense. Not fogetting the whole prop disussion. So patience is required.

I did see something earlier in the thread which is a "different" way of thinking of it for me, but makes perfect sense.

Watts = Power. So, I don't think I have seen a chart that also suggests what is a good wattage to have for a typical boat. Something like you need 1/2 horsepower (in watts) for small boat and 4hp (Watts) for a bigger boat. So rather than only looking at rpms (volts) you are also considering how much power you need. I know that is implicit in the charts that shows cell count and rpm's to some degree, but it might help others grapple with the equation of backing into what they need for a boat? Hope that made sense... Chuckle.

Added: So, given we know the optimal rpm range based on the chart(volts), what is the optimal amps that should be pulled to get the corrrect watts that are needed for a given sized boat...

[electric]

If you look at the chart provide, it would be neat to add into that chart a suggested amperage range and boat size range as well. This is to Jay's point of running a supervee at 50mph..there is a point where the watts/horespower become too much for the boat...

And..then lay on top of that watts to horsepower, since most people have an easier understanding of horsepower.

[petej]

Thank you Properchopper for making this terrific chart and Diesel6401 for posting it.

As a FE newbie, I have an MG with the stock 1500kv motor, Turnigy 120A ESC, 1.6" dia Pro Boat SS prop and typically run 5s, 30C or 40C batteries. After a run, the motor, ESC are always cool, but the series ESC, battery connections get quite hot.

Question: How do you estimate or calculate the current (amps) a configuration or setup will draw?

Pete

[Boaterguy]

People want to run low voltage on high Kv motors, because they are cheaper, but running the same rpm's on a lower Kv motor with higher voltage will result in less anp draw, and more torque, resulting in less rpm's lost under the water. I agree with everyone wanting to run 6S being a bad thing, and some people know what they are doing, like the SAW guys who push the limits of their equipment.

[Dustin Sontag]

Everybody that buys my Micro boats is obsessed with wanting to run them on 4S. All they do is create an uncontrollable boat and burn everything up. I try to warn 'em but whatcha gonna do?

lol and here i am trying to break a speed record running mine on 6s and 120 amps. Still cant believe that my stock motor is holding up!! Torque roll is a real problem at this stage, but it sure is fun!

i have had more fun with my little boat than any of my gas or nitro boats.

[Jacked1]

power=torque x radians/minute (radians/minute = rpm x 2pi)

[sailr]

I'm glad you're having fun with the Velocity! Still amazed about that motor! Dang! I knew they were a good motor but never would have guessed that good!

[JPriami]

I was a total FE boat newb when I came here.
When i converted over from nitro & gas to FE I started with a stock SV27 It was fun but wasnt much if any faster than my nitro boats. I ended up selling it because I didnt like how it would flip over so easy.

Later I sold my nitro and gas boats. Then got a UK boat called the saga. An EKOS clone type with slightly different electronics & motors. I ran it on 2 3S 45C packs. One 3S pack for each motor and esc combo. It was fun doing in the 30-40mph range and trying different props. Eventually I bumped it up to 4S and changed out the motors and props again. I got it up to about 62mph. That was pretty sweet.

After that I got the spartan and was taking the two 45C 3S packs I had and running them as 6S. That boat was in the high 50's after much modification. Not to impressive for 6S compared to my faster 4S cat. I ended up selling the spartan because I wanted another cat as ive never been a big mono fan.

So then came the Geico. I read some post and watch a bunch of videos with the geicos. Most of them were in the 40-50mph ranges. I wanted to get one that was mine into the 60's. So since I already had a T180, castle 1520 & later a 1518 I planned to put these in a geico and run 6S.
Mainly because I was aware that when you up the voltage in a system you lower the amp draw. These decisions were made because the 3S packs I had were 45C 5000mah. and the 4S packs I owned at the time were only 25C 4500mah. I felt I'd utilize what I had at the time instead of buying new motors and new packs.
Since the Miss geico I have invested in a few other lipo pack pairs and one is a 5S. I currently run my Miss geico with a 1518 on 5 & 6S. Its in the 55-63mph range.
I have also invested in a data logger because I was curious to see what was going on because I like to learn as much as I can. Mostly on my own because there arent any local boaters here in my area. Just a long drive away. Heck you learn better from experience anyways. Well with that data logger I have seen amp spikes on the MG that I really dont care for. My temps are always good. But the spikes are alarming. So I am currently trying a few ideas with the MG and might end up where I want to be with it.

Between all of this I have bought a CF daytona hull that i plan on building a twin out of during this coming winter. I originally wanted it to be a 6S boat because when I bought it I was playing with the spartan. But its now back on the drawing board and being thought out again. I do want that boat to run 80+ mph and look good doing it thats the goal and it will be achieved.

Currenty I have began a 32" cat build thats a twin and it will be a 4S boat. Its somewhat based on my 32" saga cat that started this need for speed craving. But this will be a little stronger boat with better motors, esc's, hull reinforcements, props and lipos. Its target will be a 70+ mph boat.

So basically I have run between 3s to 6S in my relatively new involvement in FE boating of my RC hobby. I have seen twin 4S boats do over 80mph and 6S boats struggle to hit 50mph. What it all boils down to is experience, learning, & knowledge. They all go hand in hand and one leads to the other. Plus you have to have a passion for this stuff otherwise you might get turned off if what your doing isnt working and you dont try to learn anything more than what you know & blame the equipment as the problem.

Honestly I feel this year the biggest 6S craze on this forum has probably been attributed to the Traxxas spartan. It has brought lots of new people to the forum with 6S on their lips and two 3S packs in their hands & a boat thats not doing what it was acclaimed to do.

[properchopper]

A few thoughts here (waiting for 24 hr. cure epoxy to set on build so whatever). I think there's two types of 6S setups under discussion. The first is the " it goes fine on 4S; let's see what it'll do on 6S". No need to explain what'll happen there, although it helps to caution these people. The second is the well balanced setup as Simon describes, which has some distinct advantages. One advantage that seems to be brought up frequently is more runtime. But let's examine this blessing : I seem to pick up that the thinking is that a 6S 5000 mah 1P setup runs longer than a 4S2P with 2X 5000 (10K mah) on board. I'm not convinced of this. Apples to apples - with both setups running 2P, the 6S setup is carrying the extra weight of a 4S 5000 pack. In most cases this extra weight will make the boat slower. OK, it'll draw less current, go slower longer, and cost more. Is this really desired ?

I like oval racing. The P class in its various configurations represent a big share of the action. The 2012 FE Nat's will run 26 classes. Only 8 classes above P (divided between Q and T) are offered, two of which are offshore requiring a full load of cells. These Q and T boats are expensive ! The SC's longivity is frequently an issue, and keeping a few sets of batteries charging for each round gets pricey. For myself, and my racing budget , P class is all I'll do; not to mention that the last P & Q classes I saw run in sprint heats was a few years ago in AZ and there were only three boats there in those classes. ( Yes , SAWs are a different thing. Three guys - Mark, Tyler, and now Boyd had Q & T boats. Many problems abounded for these brave guys in the last and previous SAWs to say the least.)

All things being equal (where does this happen ?) I'd like to try a 6S setup someday. Until then, as they refer to me in Great Britian, I'll just be known as
"His Royal P-ness"

Tony

[LarrysDrifter]

Well said, Royal P-ness!!

[properchopper]

Well said, Royal P-ness!!

Uhh, hang on a minute.......

[Diesel6401]

I run a 6s2p setup and it's great reliable setup. My whole reason for this thread is that a lot of new comers were coming in running 6s on setups that were not properly setup or meant to run 6s on i.e guys running 6s on cc1515 2200kv motors, there was a common mis-understanding that the only way to have a fast boat was to run 6s on everything... I have nothing against 6s + setups, its just a matter of the proper setup. Like Jim said about guys running 4s on the micro boats, some guys just really don't get the point and "speed" chasing out ways logic and proper decision making/reliable setups.

[JPriami]

I smell what your cooking

[Stephavee]

If you look i have been reading posts in this website like crazy! Im a newbie and would like to make my bj26 a fast reliable boat. After reading this post Im rethinking 6s... Thanks i guess? I was thinking it would be Easyer to make use of the erevo 3s 2p packs i will always have on hand. That was on rough water i can run 3s and on glass water i could run 6s. I asked what to run in my boat for 6s but nobody has given any advice. I guess i have more to learn! I want to do things right and that might mean getting some 2s packs just for my boat. This thread just might have saved another newb!...thanks guys if anybody has a recommend set for me pls let me know

[Boaterguy]

so you want to run 4S?
http://fightercatracing.com/index.ph...emart&Itemid=1
there is a guy (carl?) building a lynx which is a 27" catamaran on one of these motors, I do not know if he is running 4S or 6S (6S on a lower kv version) in the boat but I don't think it will handle 6S very well.

[Drax21]

This is a great thread, thanks Diesel and thanks for the KV chart.
Its true about the RC car runners with 3s batts. They get a Boat and they don't think of buying new batteries for the boat they use the 3s packs combined for 6s and sometimes they are very low C rating so they cook em
This KV chart could be useful on the homepage listed as for NewB's
A member recently bought the a 1520 off me to put in his Hor Rocket 25" Mono on 6s(as he only had 3s batts). I hope he re-enforces that hull...
A delta force 26" with 4074 2000kv and 4s is fast enough!

[LarrysDrifter]

All my boats run on 6s. For me, all I buy is 3s packs. Connect in series and put the throttle in rabbit mode. It comes down to simplicity as far as I go. As far as my land vehicles go, they run on 3s, so its a win win for me. But, I also know what kv to use with each.

[Stephavee]

I want to run 6s in my BJ26 "just for simplicity" also but how do you find what can size to get? leo 3674, 4074, 4082? delta or Y? a link to the right info or just solid advice would be helpfull!

[keithbradley]

I want to run 6s in my BJ26 "just for simplicity" also but how do you find what can size to get? leo 3674, 4074, 4082? delta or Y? a link to the right info or just solid advice would be helpfull!

How fast do you want go, and what ESC will you be running?

[martin]

Go to www.leopardhobby.com for all the specs on their motors including what wind their motors are.