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Thread: KNPC's 43'' Conquest build

  1. #1
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    Default KNPC's 43'' Conquest build

    I'm starting a new cat biuld. The hull is a 43'' Aeromarine Conquest with an Avernger hatch. I have almost all the components for the build, just waiting on the motor which has been ordered. I've been able to do a few things, mostly planning at this point. Just about everything for this build was bought from OSE and forum members.

    This is the plan so far
    - 43'' Aeromarine Conquest hull reinforced with CF
    - Speedmaster strut w/ skeg
    - Speedmaster rudder
    - .250 flex stepped down to 3/16
    - CC Hydra 240 HV
    - Neu 2230/1y (725kv)
    - 10s2p 35c lipos (four 5s 5000mah packs per run)
    - motor mount from Peter Zicka
    - 8mm-.250 coupler from Jeff Wolt
    - decals from monojeff
    - prop?

    Here are a few pictures. This is by far the biggest hull I've built, everything to this point has been 4s or 6s setups.


    Kevin
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    Rico 29, Sprintcat 34, Insane FE 30 Hydro, 43'' Aeromarine Conquest

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    A few more
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    Rico 29, Sprintcat 34, Insane FE 30 Hydro, 43'' Aeromarine Conquest

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    I'm open to any setup suggestions you guys may have, like I said this is my first BIG cat. A couple questions to start with. As far as c.o.g. I was thinking to set in around 33% with room to adjust forward and back 1'' or so. Also what props should I try, would a X460 be a good place to start?
    Rico 29, Sprintcat 34, Insane FE 30 Hydro, 43'' Aeromarine Conquest

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    U running twins or a single?Oh duh a single. I see the mount. that 2230 is a beast when It moves a mono with a prop that size @ 70 plus mph I think that 2230 will chew that 460 up and spit it back out at you lol hell yeah try it. But I bet It can do more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TotalPackage View Post
    U running twins or a single?
    Single motor, one big Neu. I'm not looking to break any records, my goal is for it to run mid to high 60s, maybe 70 and stable.
    Rico 29, Sprintcat 34, Insane FE 30 Hydro, 43'' Aeromarine Conquest

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    Quote Originally Posted by knpc View Post
    Single motor, one big Neu. I'm not looking to break any records, my goal is for it to run mid to high 60s, maybe 70 and stable.
    Aww sh.. 70 will be cake I bet for a big Neu.

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    cool hull

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    Default KNPC's 43'' Conquest build

    Forget about the boat, your kid is adorable. That being said, that setup will fly. You may need more than 33% C/G with the speeds you are going to hit. I just built my 1st cat as well. An Aeromarine Cyclone. Certainly two different approaches to a build. I wish I got one of Peter's motor mount esc setups, it is truley a work of art. The best of luck, and enjoy the build. I will be following your build.

    Killer V

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    Cool

    An x462 or x465 are pretty standard for that motor and hull. Depending on the use you could go up a bit like an x665. That was a bit too much for the Lehner 3060 in my Stryker cat but your big Neu should eat it up. I like the Avenger Pro hatch on this hull.


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    The conquest is a fantastic boat! Hands down one of the best handling boats I ever built and ran in that length. I ran a pro mod zenoah with these props http://www.voodoopropellers.com/ Having said that, I don't know if they can be used with an electric setup but I do remember running close to 70 with these prop's and handling really well. (I don't remember which one's, it's been a few years) perhaps someone else here might have experience with voodoo props??

    It's nice to have some options I guess..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer V View Post
    Forget about the boat, your kid is adorable.

    Killer V
    Thanks. It's our first. she is almost 3 months old and is such a great baby. I thought it was an interesting size camparison and snapped a picture.

    I've been watching your Cyclone build. It came out real nice, paint is great too. Looking foward to a video


    Thanks for the prop advise Jay, I'll give the x462 and x465 a try and go from there. I like this hatch much more than the stock one as well, completely changes the look of the boat IMO.
    Rico 29, Sprintcat 34, Insane FE 30 Hydro, 43'' Aeromarine Conquest

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    First of all, congratulations on your baby! May she outgrow the conquest real soon.

    According to my cat speed formula, the speed ranges for the following props are:

    x462 ~ 63mph
    x465 ~ 66mph
    x468 ~ 68mph
    x665 ~ 75mph

    I am all done with small boats as for the past year, I've been contemplating on a Conquest 43in build. I've got more 6S than 4S setups, and it would be nice to go with 12S in that hull. I wonder if the 725 kV would be too high for 12S as the 485 kV sounds too low?...

    In any case, I'd love to see how it turns out, maybe you'll have it done this summer?! Keep us posted.
    Mean Machine Cat: 9XL, 4S2P, CC120, M545 (50mph) -- DF22 Hydro: 8L, 3S1P/4500, CC120, x637 (49mph) -- M-1 SuperCat: 1521/1Y, 6S2P, CC240, x447 (61mph) -- SV27 Mono: stock setup, 14-cell/4200, x642 (42mph) -- Micro Scat Cat: 28-3600, 3S1P/2100, Turnigy 60, x430 (41mph)

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    Looks like the King of the pond is building his defense !! Caileigh could ride in that thing, she is so small, 1/12 scale human?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jingalls007 View Post
    The conquest is a fantastic boat! Hands down one of the best handling boats I ever built and ran in that length. I ran a pro mod zenoah with these props http://www.voodoopropellers.com/ Having said that, I don't know if they can be used with an electric setup but I do remember running close to 70 with these prop's and handling really well. (I don't remember which one's, it's been a few years) perhaps someone else here might have experience with voodoo props??

    It's nice to have some options I guess..
    No challenging anyones expertise but weve yet to see a GAS prop as effective in an FE as they run in a different rpm range. Fluid has already told us this and I honestly cant remember seeing a gas prop run good . So i got to agree with him.Nothings impossible I know but stick to the octuras in the 55-65 mm range. ABC makes some good props too.

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    I've been running the big Neus for several years now and this is my take on it. In my mono I ran 12s and all sorts of 3 and 4 blade props in the 65 to 70 mm range from voodoo and prop shop and the motor handled all of them. What it comes down to is finding the right prop that the boat likes. For my mono it was a 6515 or 6715 prop shop prop with a little work done to be more mono friendly. I would figure out what prop the gas guys like running with that boat and start there. An X465 or 467 wont work that motor very hard on 10s. I agree most electric motors dont like gas props but the 2230 has no problem with them.

    Mark

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkF View Post
    I've been running the big Neus for several years now and this is my take on it. In my mono I ran 12s and all sorts of 3 and 4 blade props in the 65 to 70 mm range from voodoo and prop shop and the motor handled all of them. What it comes down to is finding the right prop that the boat likes. For my mono it was a 6515 or 6715 prop shop prop with a little work done to be more mono friendly. I would figure out what prop the gas guys like running with that boat and start there. An X465 or 467 wont work that motor very hard on 10s. I agree most electric motors dont like gas props but the 2230 has no problem with them.

    Mark
    Thanks Mark. I like that mono too mark shes screaming!

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    I have a similar conquest with a 2215 1.5Y on 10S2P. The hull likes the X series Octura props. I ran X457 up to X462 with speeds varying from 72 to 78 mph. For the larger 2230, i would swap out of the 3/16" step down shaft and just run a regular 1/4" flex. A X467 with added cup or a X670 will make her fly.

    https://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/...light=conquest

    Tyler

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    Quote Originally Posted by TotalPackage View Post
    No challenging anyones expertise but weve yet to see a GAS prop as effective in an FE as they run in a different rpm range. Fluid has already told us this and I honestly cant remember seeing a gas prop run good . So i got to agree with him.Nothings impossible I know but stick to the octuras in the 55-65 mm range. ABC makes some good props too.
    I wasn't sure so thank you for clarifying. Voodoo actually has a nitro/electric line now which I just noticed here: http://voodoopropellers.com/catalog/...cPath=21_22_26

    I know the gas props were fantastic, I know nothing about their electric/nitro line. Anyone?

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    Thanks for all the prop advise, this gives me a good idea of a few props to order to start out.

    RaceMechanix - I went with the 1/4 flex stepped down to 3/16 because this setup seemed right on the line of 3/16'' and 1/4'' props. I figured with the 3/16 I could run a sleeve bushing and use both sizes to give me the most options. I've looked at your Conquest build, great thread and also where I found out that the Avenger hatch would fit this hull.

    10gauge - those speeds you came up with seem like they will be very accurate with the real world speed, what formula did you use to produce those numbers? From what I know this motor would do great on 12s, I just don't trust the Castle on any more than 10s and didn't want to make the leap to a Shulze just yet.

    Norm - I won't be able to hold you off for long, once that HPR is done the rest of us won't stand a chance.

    There are still a few things I can do until the motor gets here. I'm going to make the rails, battery trays, and finish up the hatch hold downs.


    Kevin
    Rico 29, Sprintcat 34, Insane FE 30 Hydro, 43'' Aeromarine Conquest

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    Quote Originally Posted by knpc View Post
    Thanks for all the prop advise, this gives me a good idea of a few props to order to start out.

    RaceMechanix - I went with the 1/4 flex stepped down to 3/16 because this setup seemed right on the line of 3/16'' and 1/4'' props. I figured with the 3/16 I could run a sleeve bushing and use both sizes to give me the most options. I've looked at your Conquest build, great thread and also where I found out that the Avenger hatch would fit this hull.

    10gauge - those speeds you came up with seem like they will be very accurate with the real world speed, what formula did you use to produce those numbers? From what I know this motor would do great on 12s, I just don't trust the Castle on any more than 10s and didn't want to make the leap to a Shulze just yet.

    Norm - I won't be able to hold you off for long, once that HPR is done the rest of us won't stand a chance.

    There are still a few things I can do until the motor gets here. I'm going to make the rails, battery trays, and finish up the hatch hold downs.


    Kevin
    If casle couldnt run 12s then that would be false advertisement but all the conponentry in it can handle more I think it would be ok . Dont take this to mean run 12s coz I really dont know if 12s with your kv is right im just saying im sure the castle can do 12s

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    Over three years ago, I derived a mathematical equation to calculate speed for catamarans. I guess it's been long forgotten by the forum or it never really caught on. I find it very useful for approximating performance without having to take the boat on the water or build a boat by hearsay or guessing. Maybe I should repost this? I based my formula on quantitative analysis and it is a fairly accurate statistical approximation of actual setups. My formula was verified by Jay Turner on RRR and it's within 3% of his calculations. I had more time to devote to RC boats back then...

    Here's my original formula:

    mph = [Prop Factor] x [Prop dia] x [kv motor] x [LiPo Volts] x 0.000687
    (Prop factor or pitch is 1.4, 1.5, 1.6, etc.; and Prop dia. is in inches).

    mph = [Prop Distance per Revolution] x [kv motor] x [LiPo Volts] x 0.000687

    Here are the original threads on the formula from February 2008:

    https://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/...ead.php?t=2695
    http://www.rumrunnerracing.com/fefor...culating+speed

    Here's the same formula for prop dia. in mm. Multiply Pitch, Dia, kV, V, then divide by 36970 for catamarans, and divide by 33610 for Hydros.

    mph (cat) = [Prop Pitch] x [Prop Dia.] x [kV] x [LiPo V] / 36970

    mph (Hydro) = [Prop Pitch] x [Prop Dia.] x [kV] x [LiPo V] / 33300


    So in your setup, just plug in the numbers:

    For a x462 prop: [1.4] [62 mm] [725] [37 V] / 36970 = 63mph
    For a x465 prop: [1.4] [65 mm] [725] [37 V] / 36970 = 66mph
    Mean Machine Cat: 9XL, 4S2P, CC120, M545 (50mph) -- DF22 Hydro: 8L, 3S1P/4500, CC120, x637 (49mph) -- M-1 SuperCat: 1521/1Y, 6S2P, CC240, x447 (61mph) -- SV27 Mono: stock setup, 14-cell/4200, x642 (42mph) -- Micro Scat Cat: 28-3600, 3S1P/2100, Turnigy 60, x430 (41mph)

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    10gauge - I just tried your formula for some of my current setups where I know what the actual speeds are. All were within a couple mph, very impressive and a tool I'll be using for future setups.

    Totalpackage - I spoke with Joe Ford, the guy how heads up Castle's boat dept, he reccomended not to run the 240HV on 12s. I'm not saying it wouldn't work, it may be fine for years, it may go up in smoke in a minute, or it may just shorten the esc's lifespan a bit. As a rule I never run an esc at it's max voltage, I try to leave some room for user error (me).
    Rico 29, Sprintcat 34, Insane FE 30 Hydro, 43'' Aeromarine Conquest

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    For a x462 prop: [1.4] [62 mm] [725] [37 V] / 36970 = 63mph
    For a x465 prop: [1.4] [65 mm] [725] [37 V] / 36970 = 66mph
    i dont get it. why 37v?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by dana View Post
    For a x462 prop: [1.4] [62 mm] [725] [37 V] / 36970 = 63mph
    For a x465 prop: [1.4] [65 mm] [725] [37 V] / 36970 = 66mph
    i dont get it. why 37v?
    I'm going to run 10s2p. 3.7 volts per cell x 10 cells = 37 volts

    For my Sprintcat I ran an x455 on 6s2p - 1.4 x 2.17 x 1250kv x 22.2v x .000687 =57.9 the boat actually runs around 60-61mph
    Rico 29, Sprintcat 34, Insane FE 30 Hydro, 43'' Aeromarine Conquest

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    Default KNPC's 43'' Conquest build

    KNPC,

    Two things, your daughter is beautiful, enjoy her as she is so young. Mine is 24 now. Ahh the good old days. The other thing is, and I am not critisizing, but Peter's mount looks like it is to attach to stringers. Are you going to put some in. I am curious as to your layout.


    Jeff

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    Yes, I'm putting rails in. I thought it would be easier to make the rails the way I wanted them instead of having to modify rails that were already installed. The rails never come the way I would want them, not they they will be anything special its just a pain to try to shape them with a dremel while they're in the hull. I had Peter make the mount to fit betwen 5'' rails.
    I'm still working on the layout, even in this big hull I somehow still seem to run out of space . I guess with a motor the size of a coke can and 4 packs it fills up quickly.
    Rico 29, Sprintcat 34, Insane FE 30 Hydro, 43'' Aeromarine Conquest

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    Quote Originally Posted by knpc View Post
    I'm going to run 10s2p. 3.7 volts per cell x 10 cells = 37 volts

    For my Sprintcat I ran an x455 on 6s2p - 1.4 x 2.17 x 1250kv x 22.2v x .000687 =57.9 the boat actually runs around 60-61mph
    oh ok i get it now. so my MM comes out at 51 mph. sounds about right. ive never gps'd it tho.... i suppose i could also use this formula to calculate different props before i buy them... kinda neat

  28. #28
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    Guys, remember that this formula is not based on theoretical conditions. The data to derive the constant for cats (36970) and hydros (33300) was from a pool of 30 actual and running setups. The calculated speed is an average for a particular type of hull and the data pool doesn't represent "best case scenarios or runs." It keeps the numbers modest, so be pleasantly surprised if your actual setup goes a few mph faster than calculated speed, and not the other way around.

    Kevin, I am glad that 12S will work on the 725 kV motor. To bad Neu doesn't have an intermediate kV that keeps rpm <30,000 on 12S for such a large motor. I am just worried about current draw on a similarly large prop. I agree that the Avenger Pro Cowl looks great. I also like the Cyclone twin canopy design, but I wonder if it could be reworked to fit the Conquest?
    Mean Machine Cat: 9XL, 4S2P, CC120, M545 (50mph) -- DF22 Hydro: 8L, 3S1P/4500, CC120, x637 (49mph) -- M-1 SuperCat: 1521/1Y, 6S2P, CC240, x447 (61mph) -- SV27 Mono: stock setup, 14-cell/4200, x642 (42mph) -- Micro Scat Cat: 28-3600, 3S1P/2100, Turnigy 60, x430 (41mph)

  29. #29
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    The kv is as little in between 10s and 12s. On 10s its 27,00 and on 12s its 32,00, seems to me that 11s may be a good solution. 11s would put the rpm around 29,500, I am thinking about giving it a try after I get the boat dialed in depending on how it runs, I have the 5s and 6s packs to do it.

    The cyclone cowl is nice, I'm sure you could make it work if you got both cowls and did a little cutting and fiberglass work. I modified my sprintcat cowl by cutting out the entire center section and making my own cockpit and glassing everything, wasn't too hard and came out good.
    Rico 29, Sprintcat 34, Insane FE 30 Hydro, 43'' Aeromarine Conquest

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    I got a little more done on this, I've done just about all I can do until the motor arrives. I made the stringers, they are ready to install. I also put on the vinyl decals that monojeff made up for me, he did a great job making exactly what I wanted.

    Here are a few pictures
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    Rico 29, Sprintcat 34, Insane FE 30 Hydro, 43'' Aeromarine Conquest

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