No more Enerland LIPO cells

[lectriglide]

Not sure what to make of this. Are they waving the white flag to the Asian cell makers???

http://www.a123systems.com/a123racing.htm

What name brand "quality" Lipo's does this affect?

[sailr]

Enerland was an asian cell maker! Korean. A123 bought them out. Lots of history. As I understand it, the brother in law of the owner of Enerland was selling bad cells out the back door and they got to some of the bigger names like ThunderPower, Flightpower, etc. So they stopped paying their bills and Enerland cut them off. At least this is what I was told by more than one manufacturer. Could be wrong.

Not sure where the best stuff is coming from now but hasn't been from Enerland for quite some time unless Polyquest was the lone holdout.

[cybercrxt]

Well, I am not to happy about this. Basically these cheap "spec inflated" chinese packs have driven out one of the true quality brands. I can say I have 4-6s, 4-5s, 4-4s 5050mah, 35c Polyquest and polyrc (rclipos.com badged polyquest pack) packs. Once they got cycled in, they have been so perfect. No puffing, no swelling, I can run them on 1p setups and they handle it. Never, ever, ever was I able to do what I have been doing with those flightmax and turnigy 40c blue packs. They would swell, get hot as heck, wires would come disconnected, etc. etc. I finally got rid of all of them and made the switch. Heck, when I saw this thread, I immediately checked hobbyking for 2 more 4s 5050mah 35c packs, but they were permanently back ordered (too bad because once you put them in the cart the price went goes $133 to $83 which is why I bought as many as I did). Then I went to rclipos.com, and they are having a great discount on all polyrc (enerland cells) packs, and got myself 2 more for $106 shipped each.

I am not sure why some people feel these may not be quality packs compared to their hyperion counterparts, because they really are durable, well made packs. Got get some before they are gone. Lot cheaper than the $141 for hyperion 35c 4s 5000mah packs are right now!

Mike

[GP73]

I hear this over and over about "cheap" Chinese stuff, but I think you guys are looking at the problem only from one side. I believe that if you looked at the big picture for a second you would see that things are not necessarily that bad.

Yes, China is impacting the US market with their cheap prices and labour, they might be impacting the overall quality of components as well, but they are also allowing a cheap entry point to the hobby to way more people than before.

In my case: I used to race 1/10 on-road nitro cars 10 years ago, I had only 1 car and spent (at the time) few thousands just on hop-ups and replacement parts because they were insanely expensive at the LHS and I had no other choice (Rossi mufflers at $200+ and those were the cheap ones). After a little more than a year it was just too expensive and not gratifying enough.

After that experience I gave up on the hobby altogether, I would have NEVER thought of coming back with Lipo packs priced at $200-300 dollars each or ESC priced at $500+.

Imagine my surprise when I saw I could buy a cheap/crappy Lipos for $30 each that are still FUNCTIONAL for my application.

Imagine my surprise when I saw I could buy a crappy, but functional, 2.4Ghz TX/RX for $30. (Didn't buy that, bought a Spektrum instead because I liked the features).

With the money I spent 10 years ago on 1 car I could afford probably 10 electric cars today, including Lipo packs and spare parts.

So last year the cheap Chinese "crap" allowed me to get back into this hobby with a really small initial investment, my first boat was the Surge Crusher from HK with 2 lipo packs and a charger, $250 or so shipped to my door + the Spektrum DR3S from the LHS. I loved running that yellow piece of junk so much that now I own several other boats and I plan on buying at least another 1 or 2 this year. And if I count how much I spent in the last year is probably not much more than what I spent 10 years ago on my Kyosho V-ONE alone.

Without HK I would have never get back to RC and never spent any money on OSE and other US companies (Horizon Hobby and others). I'm sure Steve would have made more money selling me Lipos as well, but I'm also sure he would be even less happy if I wasn't a customer at all because I couldn't afford to buy enough Lipo to make this fun.

And just to make sure this is still related to topic: yes, it's sad that Polyquest is no more, but businesses need to adapt and as long as there is demand there will be companies willing to fill that market.

Just sayin'

[cybercrxt]

I'm not talking about cheap Chinese parts. We are talking about lipos, the most dangerous battery in the world. I had over 20 flightmax/ turnigy packs, most of which puffed out under any kind of load. Others had to have the heat shrink cut back to re solder the sub-par solder work on the wiring. Then, the straw that broke the camels back, I started receiving new pack after new pack with totally out of balance cells..like 1 volt differences, or just plain dead cells. Do you think its safe for someone to be cutting open the shrink wrap on a lipo?? One slip of the razor and you cut open the foil, and fire erupts. So, case and point, recieving a pack with a dead cell is a total waste of my money. When I can buy a polyquest 5050mah 35c quality pack for $83 plus shipping, why would I spend $60 plus shipping on an unsafe garbage like pack??? Hell, the 5s packs that came with dead cells, well, I lost out on a lot of money. And do you think I had time to send these packs back, at MY expense to hong kong for replacements that may or may not ever come???

In the long run, I am saving money. Simple as that!

[ray schrauwen]

I hear this over and over about "cheap" Chinese stuff, but I think you guys are looking at the problem only from one side. I believe that if you looked at the big picture for a second you would see that things are not necessarily that bad.

Yes, China is impacting the US market with their cheap prices and labour, they might be impacting the overall quality of components as well, but they are also allowing a cheap entry point to the hobby to way more people than before.

In my case: I used to race 1/10 on-road nitro cars 10 years ago, I had only 1 car and spent (at the time) few thousands just on hop-ups and replacement parts because they were insanely expensive at the LHS and I had no other choice (Rossi mufflers at $200+ and those were the cheap ones). After a little more than a year it was just too expensive and not gratifying enough.

After that experience I gave up on the hobby altogether, I would have NEVER thought of coming back with Lipo packs priced at $200-300 dollars each or ESC priced at $500+.

Imagine my surprise when I saw I could buy a cheap/crappy Lipos for $30 each that are still FUNCTIONAL for my application.

Imagine my surprise when I saw I could buy a crappy, but functional, 2.4Ghz TX/RX for $30. (Didn't buy that, bought a Spektrum instead because I liked the features).

With the money I spent 10 years ago on 1 car I could afford probably 10 electric cars today, including Lipo packs and spare parts.

So last year the cheap Chinese "crap" allowed me to get back into this hobby with a really small initial investment, my first boat was the Surge Crusher from HK with 2 lipo packs and a charger, $250 or so shipped to my door + the Spektrum DR3S from the LHS. I loved running that yellow piece of junk so much that now I own several other boats and I plan on buying at least another 1 or 2 this year. And if I count how much I spent in the last year is probably not much more than what I spent 10 years ago on my Kyosho V-ONE alone.

Without HK I would have never get back to RC and never spent any money on OSE and other US companies (Horizon Hobby and others). I'm sure Steve would have made more money selling me Lipos as well, but I'm also sure he would be even less happy if I wasn't a customer at all because I couldn't afford to buy enough Lipo to make this fun.

And just to make sure this is still related to topic: yes, it's sad that Polyquest is no more, but businesses need to adapt and as long as there is demand there will be companies willing to fill that market.

Just sayin'

...and you wouldn't believe how much we need you for racing in Ontario!

I'm not sure if you've been out with the Metro Marine Modellers gang, now with Northern lights Model Boat Club.

Hope to see you this season sometime, come by the Alliston pond. Oh yeah, now maybe you're paying IMPBA dues for insurance, etc.. ?? Another bonus...

[PDR447]

I'm not talking about cheap Chinese parts. We are talking about lipos, the most dangerous battery in the world. I had over 20 flightmax/ turnigy packs, most of which puffed out under any kind of load. Others had to have the heat shrink cut back to re solder the sub-par solder work on the wiring. Then, the straw that broke the camels back, I started receiving new pack after new pack with totally out of balance cells..like 1 volt differences, or just plain dead cells. Do you think its safe for someone to be cutting open the shrink wrap on a lipo?? One slip of the razor and you cut open the foil, and fire erupts. So, case and point, recieving a pack with a dead cell is a total waste of my money. When I can buy a polyquest 5050mah 35c quality pack for $83 plus shipping, why would I spend $60 plus shipping on an unsafe garbage like pack??? Hell, the 5s packs that came with dead cells, well, I lost out on a lot of money. And do you think I had time to send these packs back, at MY expense to hong kong for replacements that may or may not ever come???

In the long run, I am saving money. Simple as that!

a little over-stated there don't you think? yes lipos are very dangerous as far as battery standards go, but not near as bad as you make them out to be.

this guy didn't burst into flames: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDbDWw4bhtQ

by your description lipos contain pure fire as their electrical source

[Meniscus]

So, perhaps someone can give me a history lesson here. I have mainly used FlightPower and MarinePower lipos. I haven't bought any in quite some time but the last FlightPower one I received was less than spectacular. Poor shrink, seemingly insecure leads and balance wires. To top it off, it didn't pack a punch. I know they changed cell technology a while back. Who originally provided their cells?

On this subject, I think that there needs to be more users that are willing to do direct comparison of the packs and publish the results. I believe that this is the only way to keep any manufacturers in check for better or worse. Coming from a business background, I wouldn't be quick to make assumptions as to reasons why a business sells facilities or the business as a whole. In fact, 95% of the time, it's due to factors we'll never know.

[GP73]

Hey Ray,

I'm already member of the CRYA and MM Toronto for the sailing division, I plan on joining the IMPBA and GRMM to go race at the Boxwood pond this season.

Also the Alliston pond is not out of question, we'll see how it goes.

I suck at driving (always did) but at least it will be fun!

See you soon!

...and you wouldn't believe how much we need you for racing in Ontario!

I'm not sure if you've been out with the Metro Marine Modellers gang, now with Northern lights Model Boat Club.

Hope to see you this season sometime, come by the Alliston pond. Oh yeah, now maybe you're paying IMPBA dues for insurance, etc.. ?? Another bonus...

[cybercrxt]

So, perhaps someone can give me a history lesson here. I have mainly used FlightPower and MarinePower lipos. I haven't bought any in quite some time but the last FlightPower one I received was less than spectacular. Poor shrink, seemingly insecure leads and balance wires. To top it off, it didn't pack a punch. I know they changed cell technology a while back. Who originally provided their cells?

On this subject, I think that there needs to be more users that are willing to do direct comparison of the packs and publish the results. I believe that this is the only way to keep any manufacturers in check for better or worse. Coming from a business background, I wouldn't be quick to make assumptions as to reasons why a business sells facilities or the business as a whole. In fact, 95% of the time, it's due to factors we'll never know.

I said Flightmax, not FlightPower. Flightpowers, AKA the packs you use, are enerland cells.....Just wanted to clarify that! Now, if they were older packs, they may not have been enerlands.

[Meniscus]

I know you stated Flightmax. Big difference! LOL

I'm sure mine are probably Enerland as they're not that old. It is sad then. Well testers, let us know which ones maintain voltage under load!

[Fluid]

FlightPower/MarinePower used to use good cells, but they couldn't make any money and were bought out by Hobbico. It does not surprise me that they are now using cheap Chinese cells. Too bad, another good supplier forced out of the market by the cheap Chinese sh**.

This is exactly what happened with NiMH cells. Sanyo and GP (Japanese) cells were the world's best, but once the Chinese started producing cells with advertised high capacity at 1/3rd the price, everyone bought the cheap sh** and Sanyo and GP simply stopped competing. The crap you get today is frightening. A club member recently bought a 6-cell pack of 4500 mAh NiMH cells, but after running them several times, the most they would take after a full discharge was 1100 mAh....and the lack was FULLY charged, warm with full voltage. Sweet, getting an 1100 mAh pack but paying for 4500 mAH. Don't you love cheap asian quality? How long before the same thing happens to LiPos?



.

[cybercrxt]

Well, I will say this. Hyperion G3 packs are probably what did Polyquest lipos in. They have just gotten such a big name of recent, and Polyquest has never marketed much so I figure that is probably the real reason. People always thing Hyperion for quality, and rightfully so. I just purchased a few G3 6500mah packs to give a try before the 6500mah's are gone! Mike

[norbique]

Does this affect the cylindrical A123 LiFePO4 packs as well?

[sailr]

Flightpower used Enerland cells until Enerland cut them off for not paying their bills. Even when they did use Enerland, I got some pretty shabby packs from them. I have moved to Hyperions and am very happy with them.

So, perhaps someone can give me a history lesson here. I have mainly used FlightPower and MarinePower lipos. I haven't bought any in quite some time but the last FlightPower one I received was less than spectacular. Poor shrink, seemingly insecure leads and balance wires. To top it off, it didn't pack a punch. I know they changed cell technology a while back. Who originally provided their cells?

On this subject, I think that there needs to be more users that are willing to do direct comparison of the packs and publish the results. I believe that this is the only way to keep any manufacturers in check for better or worse. Coming from a business background, I wouldn't be quick to make assumptions as to reasons why a business sells facilities or the business as a whole. In fact, 95% of the time, it's due to factors we'll never know.

[sailr]

Where did you find the 6500's Mike? Must be some old stock. They have been illegal to import for close to a year now.

Well, I will say this. Hyperion G3 packs are probably what did Polyquest lipos in. They have just gotten such a big name of recent, and Polyquest has never marketed much so I figure that is probably the real reason. People always thing Hyperion for quality, and rightfully so. I just purchased a few G3 6500mah packs to give a try before the 6500mah's are gone! Mike

[sailr]

Yes it does. A123 is not making any hobby batteries anymore according to the notice:

http://www.a123systems.com/a123racing.htm

Does this affect the cylindrical A123 LiFePO4 packs as well?

[Rumdog]

I run all my slow boats with those crappy Turnigy cells.

[norbique]

But they'll continue making cylindrical cells into DeWalt tools etc. They just finished their RC line it seems. Am I getting it right?

[cybercrxt]

Jim, allerc has some left. Mike

[sailr]

OK. Thought they might. They are the retail end of the importer/distributor for hyperion. Problem is, they are getting pretty old.

[Meniscus]

So, what cells does MaxAmp use? What cells did they use in the past?

[norbique]

A123 makes/made prismatic, AKA lipo like flat cells, with 4Ah, 6Ah, 8Ah, 15Ah, and 20Ah capacity. Maybe Maxamps used one of those to make up a pack.

[gerardobrandao]

Hello Guys



I would like to give mine input, since i´m running polyquest/enerland lipos sometime ago....
I really never had good performance with them.....Now, by the post that someone put in here, that the brother in law was selling bad cells throught the back door, i can understand why i was having bad performance from mine cells...
I have always buyed cells to them directly, so it doesn´t take long to know, that i bet the worst cells were in mine packs ::huh ....
I have tried to have an alternative, and found desire power.
The cells they have produce outstanding power, and have a great power/price ratio.....
I can assure that people are having better results with the Nano tech then woth the eneland cells...


Best Regards...just mine .02 cents

[sailr]

REally? Where did you see that? They're now making prismatic LiFePO4 packs? They never used to. That was one of the downsides of the A123
s. Big, Heavy cylindrical with low mAh ratings. Very interesting.

A123 makes/made prismatic, AKA lipo like flat cells, with 4Ah, 6Ah, 8Ah, 15Ah, and 20Ah capacity. Maybe Maxamps used one of those to make up a pack.

[m4a1usr]

REally? Where did you see that? They're now making prismatic LiFePO4 packs? They never used to. That was one of the downsides of the A123
s. Big, Heavy cylindrical with low mAh ratings. Very interesting.

Yep. Big 20AH 3.3 volt cells. Car pack cells. I wondered about the Enerland thing Jim. Glad you could chime in. You would think that behaviour like that is above some. Guess it will always come down to greed. http://www.a123systems.com/products-...pouch-cell.htm

John

[norbique]

Hi Jim,

Yes they do. And look at the date in the first page, May 09.
I had problems attaching this in me earlier post, it seem it's size is the limit. I'll upload it somewhere else and provide the link.
http://www.mediafire.com/?dl550m48120851b

REally? Where did you see that? They're now making prismatic LiFePO4 packs? They never used to. That was one of the downsides of the A123
s. Big, Heavy cylindrical with low mAh ratings. Very interesting.

[sailr]

Full size car batts has always been their main goal. I knew they were going in that direction but I didn't follow them anymore after realizing their batteries are somewhat worthless for FE or airplanes but work OK in r/c cars which I have no interest in.

I always thought they had to go to prismatic because there is so much wasted space in the cylindrical format.

Thanks for the links!

[sailr]

Can't seem to download the .pdf . Mediafire just sits there and doesn't do anything.

[norbique]

sorry
can you give me a better file hosting alternative without subscribing?