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Thread: Spartan, tear it down to build it up

  1. #61

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    With my leopard 4082, t-180 & m645 and the stock flex cable and strut. when i hit LVC and brought the boat back. I was putting 5150mah and maybe a little more back in my 5000mah packs. But now with the piano wire drive and new strut. I have way less resistance. and when I hit LVC and come back in. I charge my packs and they are just at 4900mah put back in or so but not over 5000mah at all. so I know from the motor back its nothing but a problematic drive line for sure.
    Land, Sea & Air, A true RC Addict.

  2. #62
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    Isnt it bad for the lipo to take them down to more than 80%, So theirs 20% left in them ie a 5000mah shouldnt take more than 4000mah when recharged. As i have the same problem on some of my packs where theirs only around 10% left in them after lvc cuts in. Is this a sign of lipo needs replacing. Thanks.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by martin View Post
    Isnt it bad for the lipo to take them down to more than 80%, So theirs 20% left in them ie a 5000mah shouldnt take more than 4000mah when recharged. As i have the same problem on some of my packs where theirs only around 10% left in them after lvc cuts in. Is this a sign of lipo needs replacing. Thanks.
    if you get into the habit of taking them down to 20% your packs will have a longer shelf life then taking them down more
    .NAMBA20...Caterpillar UL-1, P-Spec OM29, P-Mono DF33, P-Spec JAE, Aussie 33" Hydro-LSH, Sprintcat CC2028 on 8s, PT SS45 Q Hydro, PS295 UL-1 power, OSE Brothers Outlaw QMono 4-sale, Rio 51z CC2028 on 8s

  4. #64
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    Thanks Brushless55,Any idea how many charges you should expect from lipos providing nothing bad happens to them. Also i believe they reach a peak after a certain amount of charges, Any idea how long that peak lasts before the they slowly go down & maximum performance of the boat is affected. Thanks

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by martin View Post
    Thanks Brushless55,Any idea how many charges you should expect from lipos providing nothing bad happens to them. Also i believe they reach a peak after a certain amount of charges, Any idea how long that peak lasts before the they slowly go down & maximum performance of the boat is affected. Thanks
    pack life I would think could go beyond 300 cycles
    as for the peak
    .NAMBA20...Caterpillar UL-1, P-Spec OM29, P-Mono DF33, P-Spec JAE, Aussie 33" Hydro-LSH, Sprintcat CC2028 on 8s, PT SS45 Q Hydro, PS295 UL-1 power, OSE Brothers Outlaw QMono 4-sale, Rio 51z CC2028 on 8s

  6. #66
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    Can someone help find where Traxxas claims the boat should run for 20min on 6S?

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailblazerSS View Post
    Can someone help find where Traxxas claims the boat should run for 20min on 6S?
    on there forums, but good chance they deleted it
    .NAMBA20...Caterpillar UL-1, P-Spec OM29, P-Mono DF33, P-Spec JAE, Aussie 33" Hydro-LSH, Sprintcat CC2028 on 8s, PT SS45 Q Hydro, PS295 UL-1 power, OSE Brothers Outlaw QMono 4-sale, Rio 51z CC2028 on 8s

  8. #68
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    TrailblazerSS: I think that was on their site before, they had problems and many posts/threads were lost. regardless it was a rumor and the fact is it won't run for 4 min out of the box on 6s without thermaling or blowing up.

    ambient 30*f

    Run#1 2x 2s
    esc: 54* motor: 78*
    max amp: 48 speed: 27mph
    YT vid

    Run #2 2x 3s
    esc: 77* motor: 100*
    amp: 96 speed: 44
    YT vid

    Run #3 2x 3s
    amp: 101 speed: 45
    esc: 79* motor: 100*
    YT vid

    keeping with the "Traxxas knows best" theme and while I had the MG rudder on it, modded the stock one.

    mounted in the stock location

    ambient: 32*

    Run#1 2x2s
    esc: 56* motor: 79*
    amp: 49 speed: 27

    Run#2 2x 3s
    esc: 77* motor: 100*
    amp: 92* speed: 44*

    Run#3 2x 3s
    esc: 79* motor: 110*
    amp: 106* speed: 46

    log graphs available on request, don't really see the need to clutter the post with large pics.

    again not lubing the outside of the teflon, but no dry squeal as of recent, a lot less teflon flakes too. but it is starting to create very noticeable wear on the exterior of the liner before and after the bend.

    I am curious about NC's post on the other forum.
    I see no real improvement that could be made with the new boats unless their shipping with a 4 pole motor , but I know they won't do that that would seem too much like a recall issue, unless they sneak them in.

    My guess is that they'll tweak a few things;
    bare minimum,
    rudder inlet diameter
    motor construction
    outlet size
    under radar,
    esc piping diameter
    motor jacket
    strut mount position
    should be done IMHO,
    4 pole motor
    metal jacket
    rudder inlet lower on left face

    My guess is that all us 10 guy beta V1.0 testers are going to get screwed because we were tasked with burning up their old stock.

    My Theory is that Traxxas changed motor manufactures recently(the single end cap design vs. the old two cap on the standard VXLs) because as I have seen they are no good and we have had to deal with the old manufacturer defects from last year, that is more than likely the "big" change, that I don't really see helping much, unless it really is that much more efficent or they exceed my expectations and put a 4 pole in.
    Which would have been good to know, but goes back to my big red number issue.

    George

  9. #69

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    As always good stuff George. I like your thinking and speculations on whats going on. Gives food for thought.
    Land, Sea & Air, A true RC Addict.

  10. #70
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    Thanks Justin
    That's about the only conclusion I can draw based on what Traxxas is doing. They knew that the motor would be an issue and a recall would hurt them even more financially and hurt their image, not that what they've been doing is any better.
    I know I don't recommend the boat to anyone.
    They think that the "New" motor will be all that and a bag o' chips, but I think they are too full of themselves.
    Although some people seem to be getting by on the stock system, maybe 1in250 motors is actually constructed without large stator gaps.

    by sheer chance I found the old rccaraction mag with the Titan article and interview with Tim Roberts, After I scan it I'll have to post it.

    Did some tear down of the boat;
    re-lubed the bearings, motor already stinks but no rotor epoxy discoloration.

    had left the strut mounts alone to try and retain that setting, but after I cleaned them up and shoved 'em back to the right and up the boat ran better.
    bent the trim tabs up 1* more, should just take them off

    mounted the rudder on the left side of the mount again, but left the push rod in the outer hole.
    boat handles about the same if not more planted, flow is better and seems more consistent.

    Ambient: 32*f

    Run#1 2x 2s
    esc: 51* motor: 76*
    max amp: 50 speed: 27mph

    Run#2 2x 3s
    esc: 70* motor: 98*
    amp: 91 speed: 45

    Run #3 2x 3s
    esc: 78* motor: 110*
    amp: 141 speed 44

    amp spike was caused by throttling out of a hook spin.

    lots of teflon flakes this time, tried to illustrate the wear best I could(ran a sharpie over it and wiped the excess off, left in the groves)

    drive-line temps are only about 20* over ambient

    since it's Traxxas week, and I want to make sure I do my part in burning through the old motors
    I brought the stock jacket back

    but not without modification

    I was going to bring it back at some point after temps seem to stabilize and I think that some cross flow can help prevent ballooning/leaking and allow more flow over the motor.

    Results tomorrow

  11. #71
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    First off, let me apologize for not getting to this board way, way sooner. If you ever want to get the word from Traxxas into a thread, email a link to me at pvieira(at)traxxas.com. In the meantime, I'm trying to go through the threads and clear up any misinformation that I can (for example, we've never claimed 20 minutes of run-time from the Spartan). Please DO send me links to threads you think I need to hit ASAP, here at Offshore Electrics or on other boards, and I'll get there as soon as I can.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeoVW72 View Post
    Thanks Justin
    That's about the only conclusion I can draw based on what Traxxas is doing. They knew that the motor would be an issue and a recall would hurt them even more financially and hurt their image, not that what they've been doing is any better.
    I know I don't recommend the boat to anyone.
    They think that the "New" motor will be all that and a bag o' chips, but I think they are too full of themselves.
    Although some people seem to be getting by on the stock system, maybe 1in250 motors is actually constructed without large stator gaps.

    by sheer chance I found the old rccaraction mag with the Titan article and interview with Tim Roberts, After I scan it I'll have to post it.

    Did some tear down of the boat;
    re-lubed the bearings, motor already stinks but no rotor epoxy discoloration.

    had left the strut mounts alone to try and retain that setting, but after I cleaned them up and shoved 'em back to the right and up the boat ran better.
    bent the trim tabs up 1* more, should just take them off

    mounted the rudder on the left side of the mount again, but left the push rod in the outer hole.
    boat handles about the same if not more planted, flow is better and seems more consistent.

    Ambient: 32*f

    Run#1 2x 2s
    esc: 51* motor: 76*
    max amp: 50 speed: 27mph

    Run#2 2x 3s
    esc: 70* motor: 98*
    amp: 91 speed: 45

    Run #3 2x 3s
    esc: 78* motor: 110*
    amp: 141 speed 44

    amp spike was caused by throttling out of a hook spin.

    lots of teflon flakes this time, tried to illustrate the wear best I could(ran a sharpie over it and wiped the excess off, left in the groves)

    drive-line temps are only about 20* over ambient

    since it's Traxxas week, and I want to make sure I do my part in burning through the old motors
    I brought the stock jacket back

    but not without modification

    I was going to bring it back at some point after temps seem to stabilize and I think that some cross flow can help prevent ballooning/leaking and allow more flow over the motor.

    Results tomorrow
    Hey let us know when you smoke another cheap traxxas motor
    Last edited by Brushless55; 03-30-2011 at 01:02 PM.
    .NAMBA20...Caterpillar UL-1, P-Spec OM29, P-Mono DF33, P-Spec JAE, Aussie 33" Hydro-LSH, Sprintcat CC2028 on 8s, PT SS45 Q Hydro, PS295 UL-1 power, OSE Brothers Outlaw QMono 4-sale, Rio 51z CC2028 on 8s

  13. #73
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    Well, Well ladies and gents seems it really is Traxxas week here on the forums

    I would like to thank Peter Vieira, aka PeterTRAXXAS aka angry overweight traxxas rep, for finally joining the discussion.
    Not sure why you're bringing up something as trivial a run time when that's usually attributed to battery capacity.
    Or why he's taken so long to get here, did things finally slow down or did corporate put your head on the line.
    As marketing director, why has the rccaraction boat of the year award disappeared from existence? You pumped so much hype into this boat and the award to have it promptly pigeon holed in the back. You proudly display the other awards your models have won in your catalog, but no mention on the 1-page spartan ad.


    There's no way the stock jacket is going to work with this motor, also finally had some stuffing tube discoloration.

    Ambient: 34*f

    Run #1 2x 2s
    esc: 55* motor: 87*
    max amp: 54 speed: 31mph

    Run #2 2x 3s
    esc: 82* motor: 130*
    amp: 105 speed: 45

    Run #3 2x 3s
    esc: 85* motor: 159*
    amp: 122 speed: 46


    Boat acted real strange at the end of run 3, torque rolled really hard. The old gas boat guru that visits the shop sometimes said that the liner should not rotate in the tube. That's what's causing the chine walking issue and why JPriami has had so many issues with the stock drive line.
    Oh well, back to lubing the outside of the liner until it think of an adhesive that will put up with the application.


    The stock jacket did not leak as badly as it did unmodified, but obviously it is not cooling the motor enough.
    Didn't fry yet, but the smell got worse with no discoloration of the balance epoxy.

    Last edited by GeoVW72; 03-30-2011 at 10:30 PM.

  14. #74
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    I too find Peters presence here odd. Other than mods, Traxxas has not responded publicly to the problems with their boat. He chooses this forum to do it? Geo,I agree on the run-time issue. I recall someone asking where Traxxas stated the boat would do 20 minutes. I don't recall a response. We are all aware of the mountain of valid issues with the boat no to mention the very well publicized claim of 50mph. I am interested to see how he handles the issues "over here". I'd suggest he focus on the Traxxas board. But welcome aboard Peter.

  15. #75
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    An another not finally got the opportunity to really test my boat. It ran well after extensive modification, with the exception of the stuff tube. Serious extended torque roll and the tube was warmer than I felt it should be. I lubed it before I put it in the water. Next mod, new stringer and wire drive. Peter? Any input?

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeoVW72 View Post
    I would like to thank Peter Vieira, aka PeterTRAXXAS aka angry overweight traxxas rep, for finally joining the discussion.
    Not sure why you're bringing up something as trivial a run time when that's usually attributed to battery capacity.
    Or why he's taken so long to get here, did things finally slow down or did corporate put your head on the line.
    As marketing director, why has the rccaraction boat of the year award disappeared from existence? You pumped so much hype into this boat and the award to have it promptly pigeon holed in the back. You proudly display the other awards your models have won in your catalog, but no mention on the 1-page spartan ad.
    Who whoa WHOA Geo, I'll take "overweight" but I'm not angry. And I'm working on my weight.

    I mentioned run time because I've seen threads beating up Traxxas for a 20-minute run time, when we make no such claim.

    I offer no excuse for taking so long to get here. "Been busy?" Sure, but who cares. You guys should come first.

    The only award I'm aware of for Spartan came from RC Driver's readers, and we have it posted here (scroll down to the RC Driver part). I can't find an ad with the award in it though, which was a mistake for sure--as you pointed out, we do like to show off the trophies.

    Now let me see if I can help here...

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by shctexas View Post
    I too find Peters presence here odd. Other than mods, Traxxas has not responded publicly to the problems with their boat. He chooses this forum to do it? Geo,I agree on the run-time issue. I recall someone asking where Traxxas stated the boat would do 20 minutes. I don't recall a response. We are all aware of the mountain of valid issues with the boat no to mention the very well publicized claim of 50mph. I am interested to see how he handles the issues "over here". I'd suggest he focus on the Traxxas board. But welcome aboard Peter.
    Well, I go where the butt-kickings take me, LOL. I'm on the Traxxas board too, but a customer is a customer, and I want to help. And if i don't have the answer, I want to be able to take your questions to the guys at Traxxas who DO have the answer. And, I can take a few lumps, you guys can lob shots at me. Geo got me with a left hook!

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by shctexas View Post
    An another note finally got the opportunity to really test my boat. It ran well after extensive modification, with the exception of the stuff tube. Serious extended torque roll and the tube was warmer than I felt it should be. I lubed it before I put it in the water. Next mod, new stringer and wire drive. Peter? Any input?
    If you've covered this in a previous post, forgive me. Are you using the teflon liner? If so, with grease or oil (and what kind of grease or oil)? What temperature is "warm" (an estimate, of course). Do you have other boats with similar specs and similar stuffing tubes that have cooler-running tubes? How much cooler?

    In the meantime, I'll check with the engineers to see if tube-warming is normal, and if it is, how warm they consider normal to be.

  19. #79
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    Thank you for your response. The issues with the Spartan are well-documented and include esc, motor, rudder, cooling jacket and now stuffing tube failures. Some of these failures have been dramatic, fire! Traxxas has been quietly responsive and frankly dismissive of these problems. Why has Traxxas not issued a recall on these boats?

  20. #80
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    Yes, teflon liner, Grim racer grease, temps hot enough to discolor the tube as shown above.

  21. #81
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    There are plenty of happy Spartan customers out there, and we're working with anyone who has an issue with their Spartan. I can't speak for every individual interaction Spartan customers may have had with Traxxas via a message board, email, or on the phone, but Traxxas as a company is not dismissive of any problem a customer has with any of our products. If you contact traxxas with a problem and feel you're being dismissed, ask for the supervisor. That's not the Traxxas way.

  22. #82
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    Thanks for the info, I'll be back!

  23. #83
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    OK I don't know who Peter is with respect to his position at Traxxas, all I know is he has popped up here, and on the Traxxas site, and is the first Traxxas representative to make any kind of reasonable attempt to request our input and feedback, and has openly offered to try and provide assistance through regular interaction with us on the forums.

    If Peter can accept that we are going to be open, frank, and honest in our opinions, that we will talk openly about Hobby King or any other supplier we feel offers product or services that meet our needs or solve our issues, and, that the censorship on the Traxxas forum has chased some very knowledgeable and resourceful RC enthusiasts off that site, and will unfortunately no longer be available to assist new enthusiasts there.

    And

    If Peter continues with his professional approach toward working with us to solve the issues that have plagued the Spartan.

    Then I for one welcome his participation on both sites.

    Some of us are justifiably angry with our purchase of the Spartan, but if we give Peter the opportunity to assist, and if we reciprocate and present our concerns and comments in a civil and professional manner, maybe we can help get this boat on track.

    If the Spartan can rise from ashes (pun fully intended) and become a success, it will inspire some amazing offerings from other RTR competitors, which can only benefit us, and the sport.

    Kevin

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    Hey, thanks Kevin. I'm glad to help, and I have no problem with anything in your post.

  25. #85
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    shctexas: I don't find peters presence here odd, ose has some of the best meta data on google and the best community. look at his join date, he's been here since the boat was announced.
    The other thing you will find is that traxxas's mods are not clearly posted

    Peter, you join the "fray" without reading up on the past bouts, perhaps your not that rep but I think that the way that the info at rcx was handeled wasn't all that great. I couldn't attend myself by my good friend John Thornton was there to ask you guys about the issues.
    As far as throwing punches, I just consider myself blatantly honest you can take words on a page any way you want. I'm not sure if I've been completely clear, but I have been 100% willing to help, that's why everything has been documented the best I can here. You should know how to contact me, if not just send me a PM.

    dag-nabit: He's the marketing director, he's doing what he's paid to do. But if he has the weight to effect change I'm all for it

  26. #86
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    I should have put some smileys in my post (#76), I hope my tone came across as light.

    I don't know what happened at RCX, I didn't have the interaction described there. I will be going back into the threads and getting caught up, but I wanted to let you guys know I'm here ASAP. 90% of good service is letting the customer know you exist, and want to give them good service :)

    I'm a marketing manager, not the marketing director (he's my boss), but I'm not doing any marketing here. I'm not trying to change an opinion, or sell you something. I'm only trying to help you with your boats by getting you the answers you need, whether the answer is in customer service, or engineering, or in another department.

  27. #87
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    not sure why it has taken 3+ months to get a responce from Traxxas??
    lots of guys on OSE who have much experience have been doing a bang up job helping out spartan owners
    and several posts and thread deleted over at traxxas when some were trying to figure out the issues with this boat.....
    almost like these issues were being covered up

    something you (PeterV) posted over at traxxas
    When you guys are running on 6S, are you operating at full power 100% of the time, or varying speed? If you're making nothing but full-throttle speed runs, that will contribute to overheating.
    not sure what you mean by this?
    races are done at WOT for several laps or minutes, if this boat cant hang because of the stock parts overheating then it's not ment to race
    .NAMBA20...Caterpillar UL-1, P-Spec OM29, P-Mono DF33, P-Spec JAE, Aussie 33" Hydro-LSH, Sprintcat CC2028 on 8s, PT SS45 Q Hydro, PS295 UL-1 power, OSE Brothers Outlaw QMono 4-sale, Rio 51z CC2028 on 8s

  28. #88
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    I deleted the post quoted above on the Traxxas site. I was wrong, the Spartan IS designed for sustained 6S running.
    Last edited by PeterTRAXXAS; 03-30-2011 at 06:43 PM.
    pvieira(at)traxxas.com

  29. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterTRAXXAS View Post
    I should have put some smileys in my post (#76), I hope my tone came across as light.

    I don't know what happened at RCX, I didn't have the interaction described there. I will be going back into the threads and getting caught up, but I wanted to let you guys know I'm here ASAP. 90% of good service is letting the customer know you exist, and want to give them good service :)

    I'm a marketing manager
    , not the marketing director (he's my boss), but I'm not doing any marketing here. I'm not trying to change an opinion, or sell you something. I'm only trying to help you with your boats by getting you the answers you need, whether the answer is in customer service, or engineering, or in another department.
    Thanks GeoVW72 and Peter for clearly identifying your position within the Traxxas organization.

    Some friendly advice Peter, if you are willing to take it.

    GeoVW72 has taken a measured and well documented approach to analyzing the performance and problems with the STOCK Spartan. There are many others here with valued input as well, but if Traxxas is serious about making this boat a success you would be well advised to familiarize yourself with Geo's posts and data. He would be a valuable ally in assisting with identifying solutions.

    Kevin

  30. #90
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    As posted previously, "I will be going back into the threads and getting caught up." :)
    pvieira(at)traxxas.com

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