Spartan, tear it down to build it up

[Brushless55]

Ok, fresh stuff in boat 4082 1450kv seaking, 180 amp esc, in hull h20 pick-up and x645 prop. 43 mph before prop 49+ after prop....yikes! I can't imagine 58mph but I'm gonna try to get there. There's some pretty serious torque roll when you nail-it; not quite as dramatic when power is rolled on. All in all a success

very cool man!

[shctexas]

Tough day at the pond. Turtle city! Little hard-shelled denizens of destruction.Lost flex drive due to turtle hit....or pilot error, we'll never know for sure but I'm going with the turtle story. Broke a rudder on the Miss Vegas, definitely turtle.......right?

I need a flex drive for the Spart. I'm interested in a piano drive because that seems to be a step up but I know nothing bout them. Wasn't Wohlt (spelling) building them? Any thoughts, recommendations other than watch out for the tiny bobbing heads?
Thanks.

[GeoVW72]

JPriami, Brushless55
Thanks guys
I know I'm trying to get the stock stuff to work, but someone has to make a well thought out fix or show Traxxas their selling snow cones in h*ll

Brushless55, you were close on the average amp load, I'm just thinking of it differently, what it takes to push the boat vs. the avg. load.
I don't think that the esc has a soft limit, just a soft start.

fluttering esc and toast motor at traxxas

ambient: 40*f

Run#1: 2x 2s
time: 8min
esc: 55* motor: 78*
Speed: 27 mph
graph on the netbook

Run#2: 2x 3s
time: 5
esc: 80* motor: 120*
speed: 44

YT Vid

Run#3: 2x 3s
time: 8
esc: 109* motor: 158*
speed: 43


packs forward for all runs, strut was at a positive angle that's how I got 27 on 4s, but at the end of the session it seemed level again must have not tightened it enough.
the high temps have me concerned, specially the caps 170*, so I've had to break down and change the rudder nipple to larger id.

Pics tomorrow providing it works out

[JPriami]

That strut is crap. Mine loosened up a few times till I learned you have to crank that bloody wanka down. And its done the same to several other people I have spoken too.

Still want to say good work Geo. I like that your going to the proving grounds with this boat stock to give it a work out with stats and proof.

[GeoVW72]

...Once, then the esc started the flutter

Ambient 65*f

Run# 1: 2x 2s
esc: 66* motor: 90*
Speed: 27


Run#2: 2x 3s
esc: 80* motor: 130*
Speed: 49


Run#3: 2x 3s
esc: 120* motor: 165*
Speed: 51


Motor has the same toated smell and some of the epoxy wrap fell off.
Seems as though the esc should be rated at 150A not 300A


That was the nipple I was using from These

Waiting on the toasted motor and esc to come back to do it again

[Brushless55]

was this on the stock prop or are you using one different??
thanks

[JPriami]

stock prop im betting. He has been working hard to made real data of a stock spartan for proof of whats going on with these boats.

[GeoVW72]

was this on the stock prop or are you using one different??
thanks

Stock prop, The mods I've listed are the mods I've done 100%

[Brushless55]

Stock prop, The mods I've listed are the mods I've done 100%

well I see a 51mph on the stock prop

[GeoVW72]

well I see a 51mph on the stock prop

Yep and it took all that it had
And then it didn't want to do it any more

[TheShaughnessy]

"The only way I see this boat doing 50+ for 20min stock is down one long ski slope."

That is Awesome!



And again the modtrolls take lame action






I have really lost a lot of respect for Traxxas
to me it seems money is much more important than anything else to them

Just had to comment on this thread. Thankfully I don't own a spartan, i have a MG and a SV27.

I was at RCX in Pomona today where all the rc vendors get together and put on a show. Traxxas had the Spartan set up in an aquarium type deal with the strut set to maximum negative angle and had another model sitting outside of the tank. After thoroughly dissecting the boat i noticed plastic that seems to be worse the the MG hatch, then i saw these little cheesy metal things on the back, i think they were trim tabs but I'm still not to sure on that one. Then i notice this ugly gap between the stinger and the hull, is the flex shaft exposed like that on everyone's spartan? Right where it exits the hull before it enters the stinger? It just seemed like it would create a little bit of extra drag, did i mention it was ugly looking. During this 3-4 min not once did a traxxas rep come up to me and make small talk like every other vendor did.

So I'm still browsing around checking out their car stuff cause it is actually pretty cool when a guy starts talking about how cool the boat is ( someone spooled it up every now and then to shoot water all over) so I simply say, "read the forums before you buy this boat, that's all i'm gonna say." Next thing i know some overweight traxxas rep is yelling at me to get out of the booth cause he doesn't want to hear it from me, says he doesn't want to deal with it and to just get out of the booth, i'm pretty sure he wanted to hit me in the face (He didn't make my day though). Eventually i stepped off his carpet and just talked to him from there.

I was kinda baffeled by the whole thing so i asked the guy, if there wasn't a problem with the boat why was he getting so defensive. I said i know of a bunch of guys blowing the esc on 6s. He said, "what the 10 guys i the forum?" ( So you guys know they obviously don't care about you,or at least he doesn't. Then i start telling him how his yelling is just coming off as weakness and that if what i was saying wasn't true they would still buy the boat.

Finally Greg, they other traxxas rep there stepped in and asked what was going on. We had a little talk and he more or less apologized for his buffoon of a co worker. So just like your post was deleted from the forums i was deleted from the Traxxas booth. One thing i told Greg was that no one has hit 50 with one of their stock boats that I know of, to which he simply replied, "I did."

That's all for now. I may include more more of mine and Greg's conversation later.

[JPriami]

Thanks for sharing that. And if you post more I'd read it. So please do. There's more than 10 guys on a forum with problems.

[wilsta67]

Just had to comment on this thread. Thankfully I don't own a spartan, i have a MG and a SV27.

I was at RCX in Pomona today where all the rc vendors get together and put on a show. Traxxas had the Spartan set up in an aquarium type deal with the strut set to maximum negative angle and had another model sitting outside of the tank. After thoroughly dissecting the boat i noticed plastic that seems to be worse the the MG hatch, then i saw these little cheesy metal things on the back, i think they were trim tabs but I'm still not to sure on that one. Then i notice this ugly gap between the stinger and the hull, is the flex shaft exposed like that on everyone's spartan? Right where it exits the hull before it enters the stinger? It just seemed like it would create a little bit of extra drag, did i mention it was ugly looking. During this 3-4 min not once did a traxxas rep come up to me and make small talk like every other vendor did.

So I'm still browsing around checking out their car stuff cause it is actually pretty cool when a guy starts talking about how cool the boat is ( someone spooled it up every now and then to shoot water all over) so I simply say, "read the forums before you buy this boat, that's all i'm gonna say." Next thing i know some overweight traxxas rep is yelling at me to get out of the booth cause he doesn't want to hear it from me, says he doesn't want to deal with it and to just get out of the booth, i'm pretty sure he wanted to hit me in the face (He didn't make my day though). Eventually i stepped off his carpet and just talked to him from there.

I was kinda baffeled by the whole thing so i asked the guy, if there wasn't a problem with the boat why was he getting so defensive. I said i know of a bunch of guys blowing the esc on 6s. He said, "what the 10 guys i the forum?" ( So you guys know they obviously don't care about you,or at least he doesn't. Then i start telling him how his yelling is just coming off as weakness and that if what i was saying wasn't true they would still buy the boat.

Finally Greg, they other traxxas rep there stepped in and asked what was going on. We had a little talk and he more or less apologized for his buffoon of a co worker. So just like your post was deleted from the forums i was deleted from the Traxxas booth. One thing i told Greg was that no one has hit 50 with one of their stock boats that I know of, to which he simply replied, "I did."

That's all for now. I may include more more of mine and Greg's conversation later.

hey next time you see him tell him there is this guy that has had his over 60mph
but thats after spending $500 after frying his esc lol
VIDEO.. VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV VVVVVVVV

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dTyfi8_agc

[Brushless55]

Just had to comment on this thread. Thankfully I don't own a spartan, i have a MG and a SV27.

I was at RCX in Pomona today where all the rc vendors get together and put on a show. Traxxas had the Spartan set up in an aquarium type deal with the strut set to maximum negative angle and had another model sitting outside of the tank. After thoroughly dissecting the boat i noticed plastic that seems to be worse the the MG hatch, then i saw these little cheesy metal things on the back, i think they were trim tabs but I'm still not to sure on that one. Then i notice this ugly gap between the stinger and the hull, is the flex shaft exposed like that on everyone's spartan? Right where it exits the hull before it enters the stinger? It just seemed like it would create a little bit of extra drag, did i mention it was ugly looking. During this 3-4 min not once did a traxxas rep come up to me and make small talk like every other vendor did.

So I'm still browsing around checking out their car stuff cause it is actually pretty cool when a guy starts talking about how cool the boat is ( someone spooled it up every now and then to shoot water all over) so I simply say, "read the forums before you buy this boat, that's all i'm gonna say." Next thing i know some overweight traxxas rep is yelling at me to get out of the booth cause he doesn't want to hear it from me, says he doesn't want to deal with it and to just get out of the booth, i'm pretty sure he wanted to hit me in the face (He didn't make my day though). Eventually i stepped off his carpet and just talked to him from there.

I was kinda baffeled by the whole thing so i asked the guy, if there wasn't a problem with the boat why was he getting so defensive. I said i know of a bunch of guys blowing the esc on 6s. He said, "what the 10 guys i the forum?" ( So you guys know they obviously don't care about you,or at least he doesn't. Then i start telling him how his yelling is just coming off as weakness and that if what i was saying wasn't true they would still buy the boat.

Finally Greg, they other traxxas rep there stepped in and asked what was going on. We had a little talk and he more or less apologized for his buffoon of a co worker. So just like your post was deleted from the forums i was deleted from the Traxxas booth. One thing i told Greg was that no one has hit 50 with one of their stock boats that I know of, to which he simply replied, "I did."

That's all for now. I may include more more of mine and Greg's conversation later.

wow, this just makes me not like Traxxas all the more

[dag-nabit]

Just had to comment on this thread. Thankfully I don't own a spartan, i have a MG and a SV27.

I was at RCX in Pomona today where all the rc vendors get together and put on a show. Traxxas had the Spartan set up in an aquarium type deal with the strut set to maximum negative angle and had another model sitting outside of the tank. After thoroughly dissecting the boat i noticed plastic that seems to be worse the the MG hatch, then i saw these little cheesy metal things on the back, i think they were trim tabs but I'm still not to sure on that one. Then i notice this ugly gap between the stinger and the hull, is the flex shaft exposed like that on everyone's spartan? Right where it exits the hull before it enters the stinger? It just seemed like it would create a little bit of extra drag, did i mention it was ugly looking. During this 3-4 min not once did a traxxas rep come up to me and make small talk like every other vendor did.

So I'm still browsing around checking out their car stuff cause it is actually pretty cool when a guy starts talking about how cool the boat is ( someone spooled it up every now and then to shoot water all over) so I simply say, "read the forums before you buy this boat, that's all i'm gonna say." Next thing i know some overweight traxxas rep is yelling at me to get out of the booth cause he doesn't want to hear it from me, says he doesn't want to deal with it and to just get out of the booth, i'm pretty sure he wanted to hit me in the face (He didn't make my day though). Eventually i stepped off his carpet and just talked to him from there.

I was kinda baffeled by the whole thing so i asked the guy, if there wasn't a problem with the boat why was he getting so defensive. I said i know of a bunch of guys blowing the esc on 6s. He said, "what the 10 guys i the forum?" ( So you guys know they obviously don't care about you,or at least he doesn't. Then i start telling him how his yelling is just coming off as weakness and that if what i was saying wasn't true they would still buy the boat.

Finally Greg, they other traxxas rep there stepped in and asked what was going on. We had a little talk and he more or less apologized for his buffoon of a co worker. So just like your post was deleted from the forums i was deleted from the Traxxas booth. One thing i told Greg was that no one has hit 50 with one of their stock boats that I know of, to which he simply replied, "I did."

That's all for now. I may include more more of mine and Greg's conversation later.

That is pretty sad.

Any company can have a bad product from time to time, how they deal with it is what defines how good the company is.

This is definitely not the way to deal with it.

Kevin

[bigcam406]

arrogance,pure and simple

[Brushless55]

That is pretty sad.

Any company can have a bad product from time to time, how they deal with it is what defines how good the company is.

This is definitely not the way to deal with it.

Kevin

great way to put it Kevin

[GeoVW72]

Thank You for the info TheShaughnessy
I wondered if they would have any Spartans at RCX.
I do have one Q: did you happen to see the rccaraction boat of the year award?
It seems to have disappeared... wonder if it's at the bottom of the lake with the prototype

I think all us "10 guys on the forums" can agree that Traxxas has done the worst job at addressing the issues. I would think that given the delay they would have taken notes from Pro boats problems with the MG. I think that the overweight rep. was probably the PR manager who is a little too high on his own mantra "why fix it, blame the customer for breaking it"

[Brushless55]

Thank You for the info TheShaughnessy
I wondered if they would have any Spartans at RCX.
I do have one Q: did you happen to see the rccaraction boat of the year award?
It seems to have disappeared... wonder if it's at the bottom of the lake with the prototype


I think all us "10 guys on the forums" can agree that Traxxas has done the worst job at addressing the issues. I would think that given the delay they would have taken notes from Pro boats problems with the MG. I think that the overweight rep. was probably the PR manager who is a little too high on his own mantra "why fix it, blame the customer for breaking it"

Love it!!

[wilsta67]

well i ordered my proboat MG today,
i hope its not a failure like my spartan has been.

[shctexas]

The MG may be a disappointment.......no fire, no flames, no "smoke on the water", no expensive and extensive mods. Your weekends will be free to run your boats rather than rehab them. Oh and you will be missed here as it won't need to document your rebuild. The MG is great little boat that does what its supposed to do.

[Brushless55]

The MG may be a disappointment.......no fire, no flames, no "smoke on the water", no expensive and extensive mods. Your weekends will be free to run your boats rather than rehab them. Oh and you will be missed here as it won't need to document your rebuild. The MG is great little boat that does what its supposed to do.

Oh man, I love it!!
I'm selling my Spartan and getting the new AQ cat

[GeoVW72]

Think I found the overweight rep.

Looking through rccaraction's vids from RCX and Traxxas's "awards" and found Peter Vieira.
Quick look around found his LinkedIn profile
And as I said he is the marketing rep too high on his own mantra
Also had a friend who is sponsored by RC4WD at RCX show them the blown motor and ask them what to do/they doing about it, also said they were very defensive.

This was what I got:
Make sure the driveline is greased. Oil wears too fast. The drag from the lack of grease will put just enough strain on the motor at those speeds.

Two months and that's what we got, that's about as "official" as it's going to get on them admitting a mistake.
Maybe he ate the award, you can see him eyeing the other ones

[JPriami]

Let's see. Let's pump up a boat release. Give it an award to show how awesome it is. Let the main guy behind the boat go from the company. Delay the release of the boat.
Finally release the boat.
Find crooked graphics on the boats
Find a problem with the rudders & cooling system
Find problems with the silicon motor cooling jackets
Have motor failures
Have esc failures
Have flex cables that come ungreased in an RTR with batteries
Give people light oil to oil their cables
Post 50+mph all over this thing and find it's possible, but it's a fat chance in hell and you have to just about blow it up to get there.

Oh I'm sure there is some I've missed

No let's not address these issues just fix what burns up for people. And get bent out of shape if it's personally addressed at an event.

Good way to go huh?

[Brushless55]

Let's see. Let's pump up a boat release. Give it an award to show how awesome it is. Let the main guy behind the boat go from the company. Delay the release of the boat.
Finally release the boat.
Find crooked graphics on the boats
Find a problem with the rudders & cooling system
Find problems with the silicon motor cooling jackets
Have motor failures
Have esc failures
Have flex cables that come ungreased in an RTR with batteries
Give people light oil to oil their cables
Post 50+mph all over this thing and find it's possible, but it's a fat chance in hell and you have to just about blow it up to get there.

Oh I'm sure there is some I've missed

No let's not address these issues just fix what burns up for people. And get bent out of shape if it's personally addressed at an event.

Good way to go huh?

I think there is more..

[GeoVW72]

Brushless55, if you got something to say, say it this isn't the Traxxas forum

The only other things that come to mind are, the motor:

Yes that's the can showing through the stator windings.
And the motor.


And the fact that there is no info until after you blow it up
No updated manual, nothing

Anyway, more stuff to blow up
Starting to become rather good at it.

More mods:
larger outlet:

working on adding a second one.

Using a proven rudder:

Pick-up height is slightly different, but should provide good flow. At least we know it works with other systems.

Also forgot, Peter V is on this forum; PeterTRAXXAS

Results shortly

[Brushless55]

Oh I hear the flex shafts suck to!
some are coming apart

[GeoVW72]

Hmm.... haven't had that happen yet, but the manufacturing quality, at least on the escs, seems to be slipping.

Mods buttoned up:

top esc; bottom motor, sightly enlarged

MG rudder works well

Ambient: 33*f

Run #1: 2x 2s
esc: 55* motor: 78*


Run #2:
esc: 70* motor: 100*


Run #3:
esc: 70* motor: 100*


cont. pics.

[GeoVW72]

In the interest in being through and adhering to Traxxas's invaluable advice, I didn't lube the exterior of the teflon liner.
Had a dry no-lube squeal on the first run, but not sure if that was the rotor slipping or the teflon vs. brass. everything else was lubed to death.
Anyway, went through the rest of the runs without incident except for a lot of water in the hull because I had damaged the jacket and didn't repair it well.
Tore the boat down and blew the tube out on a shop towel:


Essentially created teflon dandruff. I think that the only thing that prevented the drive-line from locking up was the water in the hull. Some of the teflon chunks are actually stuck on the brass tube part way up, above the water line I'm guessing.
I inspected the outside of the liner and could find no apparent damage.

So in essence one of my original theories is correct, there is damaging friction that exists between the teflon liner and the brass stuffing tube because that is not a typical place for lubrication requirement.
Perhaps Traxxas was hoping that the liner would just bed in.

Also I had been running another set-up while waiting for more stock parts, and in keeping track of the run times vs. stock I noticed that they were longer by about 2 min with the same packs.
The setup includes an amp hungry 4 pole motor and esc, but the run times were longer on the same prop.
Hmm.... where is the power going

The answer is HEAT
The stock power system is taking about 30% of the available power and turning it into heat.
Heat that has to be carried away by a cooling system and if that heat is not carried away fast enough it turns into more amp draw, esc heat, and in the standard series cooling system more motor heat.
In other words the stock setup compounds the inherent issue.

The inherent issue is that the stock motor is horridly designed, it generates heat just spinning under no load. All the cooling in the world won't fix a motor that at it's core cannot operate efficiently.
We're all trying to make the stock motor work.

The stock motor is 98% of the issue and Traxxas is too cheep to just fix it

Hoping they wake the **** up

[JPriami]

I posted this on traxxas a moment ago. maybe it will help.
So I am modifying a spartan for a friend. His boat is pretty much brand new(only run a few times)and all stock. I took the drive cable out and looked at it. It felt different than mine. It was stiffer and the wires on it didn't flex when i put the cable in both hands pinched it with my fingers and pulled a bit. Mine flexes and you can see it moving apart. So here is my theory. The stock cable can weaken over time especially if you run an upgraded system with a larger prop. Then once it gets weak its swelling up too much and begins to cause more friction in the stuffing tube. And can potentially bind to a halt like mine did. Or fry your system.
Word to the wise keep an eye on that.