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Thread: IMPBA’s new P-limited “spec” class rule proposal.

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nautiboyz View Post
    That wouldnt happen if half our boats were launched upside down.
    LOL! I hear ya bro! lol!
    "Will race for cookies!"
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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doby View Post

    WHICH CONTROLLERS ARE BEING PROPOSED
    Pretty sure it would be
    http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pro...od=dh-aqum7005

    http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pro...prb3309&cat=75

  3. #63
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    Probably right , but I'd like to hear it from the horse's mouth...Smock...Kanadians to Americans....is anybody out there........

  4. #64
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    I'm seriously laughing at this one...

    Quote Originally Posted by Doby View Post
    I'll ask one more time.....

    WHICH CONTROLLERS ARE BEING PROPOSED

  5. #65
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    Smock,,,,talk to us........we don`t talk anymore.........I can`t see our relationship surviving all of this silence.........you`re making me feel bad......

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doby View Post
    Well, Ive asked several times as to which controllers are proposed...and from the lack of replies, its fairly apparent that no-one knows so therfore any can be used.....

    I'll ask one more time.....

    WHICH CONTROLLERS ARE BEING PROPOSED
    LOL


    Speed control PBR3309 (45 amp)
    Speed control PRB4018 (60 amp)
    Speed control AQUM 7010 (45 amp)
    Speed control AQUM 7011 (60 amp)
    There has been some discussion about allowing any control up to 60amps.
    I'm done here fellas.
    Feel free to step up and write one up!!!
    Get her done!!
    Thanks,
    Doug
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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by D.Smock View Post
    Speed control PBR3309 (45 amp)
    Speed control PRB4018 (60 amp)
    Speed control AQUM 7010 (45 amp)
    Speed control AQUM 7011 (60 amp)
    Laudetur semper.


  8. #68
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    Thanks Doug....I think you and I will be OK.....

  9. #69
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    Does anyone else besides Doug and Terry realize that the current IMPBA rules are still written for 12 cell sub c's and 700 motors?

    I commend you Doug for writing some contemporary rules concerning spec racing. IMO you have written a good foundation for the class.

    There are plausible arguments for controllers on both sides, so this issue will never be truly solved.

    For the purist, true spec racing would involve every hull/motor/prop/controller/cells/hardware and setup to be the same. Maybe even the transmitter. So, how far are most of you willing to go for the extreme side of spec?

    I would rather support D4's prop and run whatever the rules for the race allow.

    Thanks again....now beam me up er down to warmer climate Mr. Smock!!!

  10. #70
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    You go Smock.........

    It all has to start somewhere.

    I`m in the process of determining rules for our local club and fully expect to be given a hard time but......there has to be a start......

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Scotsman View Post
    Boy oh Boy, this is getting silly an ESC will not win you a race...driving skills will...yes there should be rules for motors, but prop slight modifications will make more of a difference.

    Edit as of 6.00 pm

    I left batteries out as that is a real problem IMO

    Douggie
    Douggie, I respect you, but in this case you are really out in left field. If you don't think that the ESC can be a significant advantage, you really need to study ESCs a little harder.

    NOT arguing for anything, one way or the other (I'll "run what I brung"), but just sayin...
    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by D.Smock View Post
    LOL


    Speed control PBR3309 (45 amp)
    Speed control PRB4018 (60 amp)
    Speed control AQUM 7010 (45 amp)
    Speed control AQUM 7011 (60 amp)
    There has been some discussion about allowing any control up to 60amps.
    I'm done here fellas.
    Feel free to step up and write one up!!!
    Get her done!!
    Thanks,
    Doug
    Doug, this is miles away from being any of my business, but you may want to include the SV27R ESC also - AQUM 7005 (45 amp).

    Best of luck,
    Scott

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott T View Post
    Doug, this is miles away from being any of my business, but you may want to include the SV27R ESC also - AQUM 7005 (45 amp).

    Best of luck,
    Scott
    About the control. lol
    MODEL BOAT RACER
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  14. #74
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    Seeing that these ESCs and motors are changed regularly by the RTR manufacturers year to year I'm sure that we will be dealing with rule amendments on a regular basis. WAIT! I have a solution. Let's just say you can ONLY use ProBoat and Aquacraft ESCs. -OR- Better yet. You must only run a bone stock RTR model in the P-limited class. Problem solved for you rule guys.

  15. #75
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    Chilli,

    I spoke with Dick this morning. I don't think he was the reason a UL-1 controller (or proboat) is all that's allowed. I think he talked to me, Chilli and probably Doug about what the current setups where in IMPBA and a decision was made so the class could run last year, so please don't put it on him! Everyone has been quick to jump on his sh$t in this thread because of it! He helped make a decision that GOT YOU GUYS OUT ON THE WATER. You should be thanking him people, and the others that made that even happen.

    He also brought up something to me this morning about batteries. Is there a cap on mah in the P-limited Outboard tunnels? He was thinking 5000mah was the limit. I did not know there was a special limit in that class. I just purchased the Polyquest 35c packs, and they are 5050mah unfortunately. If this is a rule, I would like to know so I can get Hyperions. That would suck, but I want it legal. Someone please clarify.

    Also, everyone needs to settle down. Everyone wants to be heard, and I understand that, but these are just PROPOSALS. This was mentioned to you guys before the rules were set. Please have kind discussions and don't point fingers. The guys that are trying to get this done are doing it for YOUR sake. They have already been racing these boats for a year and I wonder if some of those that are getting heated have even raced??? Sorry to be like that, but this is what seems to happen every time. Those that have not been racing want to make everything the biggest and baddest and don't even understand why there are rules. Just let these guys work on this, with some positive input on this. I can tell Doug is at the end of his rope, and he is NOT the guy you wanna piss off. He is doing this for you guys to enjoy good racing. He is an honest, upstanding FE boat racer who wants ths done right.

    Plus his is like 10ft tall, 500lbs, and bench presses, believe this sh$t, Toyota Prius's!

    haha, Mike


    PS: I also wonder why people get so pissy about spending $30-40 more for a spec controller. I'm gonna be honest, if you are that broke, maybe you should be worrying about paying your regular bills. Besides, how are you even gonna get to a race if that tight of a budget is what you are working with? Nothing erks me more, and most of this comes from guys that are buying hulls, and motors, and hardware costing $500+????? So why is all that important, but the running electrics are not? Answer me that. Sorry to vent, but it is what it is.
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    LuckyDuc, I know you are on my build thread list, and I would hate to piss off a customer, but dude, really? If this is your attitude, go drive a fox body Mustang or something....
    Laser cut, birch plywood rc race boat kits- WWW.MLBOATWORKSRC.COM WWW.DINOGYLIPOS.COM

  17. #77
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    Why not just change the name from P-limited to the Aqua/Pro Spec Class. They must have some great lobbyist working out there. Bone stock, I guess I can't add extra caps to their ESC's either.

  18. #78
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    Mike,
    I may be wrong, but I thought the cap was 10,000 (2 x 5000mah) If you don't parallel the 5050's you should be good
    "A quick temper will make a fool of you soon enough."
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Bruce Lee. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by cybercrxt View Post
    Chilli,

    I spoke with Dick this morning. I don't think he was the reason a UL-1 controller (or proboat) is all that's allowed. I think he talked to me, Chilli and probably Doug about what the current setups where in IMPBA and a decision was made so the class could run last year, so please don't put it on him! Everyone has been quick to jump on his sh$t in this thread because of it! He helped make a decision that GOT YOU GUYS OUT ON THE WATER. You should be thanking him people, and the others that made that even happen.

    He also brought up something to me this morning about batteries. Is there a cap on mah in the P-limited Outboard tunnels? He was thinking 5000mah was the limit. I did not know there was a special limit in that class. I just purchased the Polyquest 35c packs, and they are 5050mah unfortunately. If this is a rule, I would like to know so I can get Hyperions. That would suck, but I want it legal. Someone please clarify.

    Also, everyone needs to settle down. Everyone wants to be heard, and I understand that, but these are just PROPOSALS. This was mentioned to you guys before the rules were set. Please have kind discussions and don't point fingers. The guys that are trying to get this done are doing it for YOUR sake. They have already been racing these boats for a year and I wonder if some of those that are getting heated have even raced??? Sorry to be like that, but this is what seems to happen every time. Those that have not been racing want to make everything the biggest and baddest and don't even understand why there are rules. Just let these guys work on this, with some positive input on this. I can tell Doug is at the end of his rope, and he is NOT the guy you wanna piss off. He is doing this for you guys to enjoy good racing. He is an honest, upstanding FE boat racer who wants ths done right.

    Plus his is like 10ft tall, 500lbs, and bench presses, believe this sh$t, Toyota Prius's!

    haha, Mike


    PS: I also wonder why people get so pissy about spending $30-40 more for a spec controller. I'm gonna be honest, if you are that broke, maybe you should be worrying about paying your regular bills. Besides, how are you even gonna get to a race if that tight of a budget is what you are working with? Nothing erks me more, and most of this comes from guys that are buying hulls, and motors, and hardware costing $500+????? So why is all that important, but the running electrics are not? Answer me that. Sorry to vent, but it is what it is.
    I'll agree with this: "Doug is a honest, upstanding FE boat racer" I don't think anyone is attacking his character. They are questioning those behind this proposal.

    The cost problem is not about spending $30 more. It is about those of us that have been racing for the last 3 years with ESCs not included in the "spec" list. We would have to buy a new ESC for each P-limited boat that we currently run just to meet the fancy of a select few in the minority.

    What happened to you Mike? Did you drink the Kool-Aid at a D12 race? LINK

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanN View Post
    Does anyone else besides Doug and Terry realize that the current IMPBA rules are still written for 12 cell sub c's and 700 motors?
    What? Me? Why would I know that? haha It's not my organization.

    Yes, the class is broke. So something does need to be adopted. The "if it aint broke don't fix it" approach is probably not the way to go. We've been running these for years now.

    This is just my opinion but......I think a rule set needs to be aimed at getting the most number of boats on the pond. This isn't NASCAR. Nobodies livelyhood depends on the results.

    Anybody know the exact procedure for rule changes in IMPBA? Never done that myself. I thought......that a trial set would get proposed by the chairman. That would be good for a year. It would then go out for a vote. The idea being to see if it works before it ends up in the book.

    If that is the case, why not have a rule that's the same as what your younger uglier sister is doing? IMPBA could sponge some of those racers up. It might even make it easier to choose to attend a race near you if both orgs rules were similar. At the end of the year you'll know if the classes are being dominated by the ESC with adjustible timing.

    No rule set is carved in blood.

    Used to be the arguement was price point. You can get aftermarket for less than the factory units now if you want to. Again, we're not talking about a stock class. We're talking about aftermarket boats built with a spec setup.

    Just communicating ideas guys. Everybody take a breath.

  21. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proposed D12 Open & FE/Nitro Combined Class Rules
    section G:
    Maximum of 2 packs in parallel. Maximum capacity of 10,000 mAh
    I hope I read THIS right
    "A quick temper will make a fool of you soon enough."
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Bruce Lee. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

  22. #82
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    Just talked to Doug, The only mah limits are those being imposed on the 1/8th scale FE proposal, and that is only to keep out the 2215 and bigger motors that require 2p batteries. So my 5050mah Polyquests are fine. (Correction, Chilli's proposal may cause mah to stop at 10,000mah)

    Luckyduc, You are right, I use to think there was nothing wrong with 120a controllers. I have learned a lot in the last year after my first year of actually racing. I learned that if you do not stop open ending the rules, there will eventually be none. Now, I myself am open to a 60a max esc, no matter the brand. I don't know why everyone needs a 120a controller. Wait, I do, because people have data logged 90+ amps out of a UL-1 motor, so they are benefiting from a 120a controller. And I am positive if a proboat motor can handle 5 cell, that it can handle propping up with a 120a controller on 4s. See what you are allowing? You are taking the balance out of the system.

    Fight it all you want, but there needs to be a cap. If you guys truly believe a UL-1 or Proboat motor can only handle 60 amps, you are fooling yourselves.

    This is a beginners class, and it helps attract new members. If they go out, and get stomped by a guy with the money to pull 90+ amps out of his UL-1 motor and replace the motor heat after heat, GUESS WHAT...He will not come back and fight a loosing battle. You guys are loosing sight that this is a beginners class.

    You know how I get my P-limited tunnels faster, I built a hull that was more efficient. I stuck with the rules, and used the one open ended part of the rule, that any tunnel is allowable. I took that, ran with it, and guess what, the boat is fast, and it still follows the current rule system.

    If you want to run open tunnel, go out, buy the big boats, motors, speed controls and get enough guys together that will run, and IMPBA will make a class. Until then, realize you are battling in a beginner class. Lets give the guys that are new to the sport a chance!!!!
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  23. #83
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    Novice and RTR classes do a good job for beginners and new racers like me. P-limited should be an intermediate step, not an rtr type.
    "A quick temper will make a fool of you soon enough."
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Bruce Lee. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

  24. #84
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    Exactly, and that is why the guys working on the rules are trying their best to preserve that. I sure hope they can! Mike
    Laser cut, birch plywood rc race boat kits- WWW.MLBOATWORKSRC.COM WWW.DINOGYLIPOS.COM

  25. #85
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    Danny, your almost like that cheez-it cheese commercial. You have grown so much, Im proud!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON-bd...eature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIR5a...eature=related
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  26. #86
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    ...wait a minute. I just realized that in novice class, a 36" cat with a new 2215 on 6S is legal. where's the limitations to help out and attract new racers there?

    LOL
    "A quick temper will make a fool of you soon enough."
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Bruce Lee. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

  27. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by cybercrxt View Post

    This is a beginners class, and it helps attract new members. If they go out, and get stomped by a guy with the money to pull 90+ amps out of his UL-1 motor and replace the motor heat after heat, GUESS WHAT...He will not come back and fight a loosing battle. You guys are loosing sight that this is a beginners class.

    You know how I get my P-limited tunnels faster, I built a hull that was more efficient. I stuck with the rules, and used the one open ended part of the rule, that any tunnel is allowable. I took that, ran with it, and guess what, the boat is fast, and it still follows the current rule system.
    Wait......if a guy gets beat by somebody pulling more amps he wont be back? If he gets beat by a guy that custom built a hull based on his experience he will be back?

    You still eploited the open end of the rule. Not faulting you. That's eactly what I did in LSH. Ligth boat with better geometry running a UL stock setup.

    The guy who bought a stock VS1 and used a Castle 120 to go a little faster well that's just not fair. The guy that used the stock esc and custom built a one off hull that the beginner guy has no hope of knowing how to build is a hero? The beginner appeal is getting lost in translation here.

    It's not a beginner class guys. It's racing.

  28. #88
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    I raced in Novice last year and had a good time. Now I guess I have to learn to play "by the rules" this year!!

    Novice allows you to "run what you got" and find out you have a lot yet to learn.
    "A quick temper will make a fool of you soon enough."
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Bruce Lee. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

  29. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by cybercrxt View Post
    Chilli,

    I spoke with Dick this morning. I don't think he was the reason a UL-1 controller (or proboat) is all that's allowed. I think he talked to me, Chilli and probably Doug about what the current setups where in IMPBA and a decision was made so the class could run last year, so please don't put it on him! Everyone has been quick to jump on his sh$t in this thread because of it!
    Mike, Who is jumping on Dick? I'm not thowing him under the bus. Dick is one of the main reasons we had such a sucessfull year. No one has been more supportive in the district!!! I mention Dick and James in responce to Dannys post because I wanted to let him know that changing the spec controller rules in the district is going to be an uphill battle. Next thing I know people are telling me I'm using Dick and James to dictate national policy and I'm throwing Dick under bus.

    Here are the facts:
    1. My orignial proposal had open controllers (just to be flexible, I really did'nt care either way).
    2. At the winter meeting, Dick and James wanted spec controllers. One of the reason mentioned was they wanted the same rules used at the WTC.
    3. I said no problem. They show up at all the races and I wanted there support and participation. I really wouldnt even call it a compomise because I didnt care one way or another.
    4. I'm glad we went spec on the controllers and would'nt change a thing.

    Please people, read all the posts if you're going to comment.

    I'm done with this thread

  30. #90
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    If I understand correctly P-Limited racing began with the introduction of the Supervee. This has to date back 4-5 years ago. The UL1 Hydro gave the sport another boost about 3 years ago. We have been evolving the classes ever since and it has been growing steadily. Look at the number of P-Limited classes at the last three NAMBA Nationals. They are outpacing all other classes 2 fold and 3 fold.

    In NAMBA we have never speced the esc, although it has been discussed many times. We have always determined that there were more benefits to not specing the esc. More choices, data logging, better quality, already owned, and the esc can be used in other open classes. We simply have not seen the so called advantage over the stock esc. The better more experienced driver always wins anyway regardless of equipment used.

    I am quite shocked that we have been doing it wrong in NAMBA for so many years. Where's my NAMBA representative when I need him?

    Go ahead IMPBA, do your thing. It is quite sad that with such a small sport/hobby that we can't have some similiarity between the two associations. All it accomplishes is yet a smaller sport/hobby.

    Doug

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