Thermal Issues with the New Traxxas Spartan

[forescott]

I'd try propping down to a 40mm prop and get a larger xl-sized cooling can that covers the entire length of that motor.

[GeoVW72]

Poping the esc apart is not difficult, there's just a few tabs and then the heat sink is accessible and still able to be installed in the boat as far as I can tell.


As far as the thermal resistor, I don't think there could be much done without knowing more about when the receiver decides to cut off, temp wise. I suppose knowing the stock cut off temp and the resistance of the stock resistor at temp, a resistor could be added to "fix" it. I was citing it more as a manufacturing tolerance that could have been overlooked, a replacement would be better.

The purpose of a water jacket is to get water in contact with the motor. A jacket will allow water to contact more of the surface area of the motor than tubing. Perhaps the problem with the stock jacket is that it forces water to travel around the motor rather than allowing free-flow like a standard jacket.

I also noticed that the motor I have has no end play. perhaps that is causing a bind?

You probably want the batteries to be at the back of the tray to get the bow out of the water, as in the top pic.
What Doug is talking about is the weight or trim tabs pushing the bow down with more hull in the water=more drag, bottom pic.

[Brushless55]

I'd try propping down to a 40mm prop and get a larger xl-sized cooling can that covers the entire length of that motor.

I wonder how much bite a prop that size would have on this size hull?

[stringfly]

After reading all this I am wondering what kind of lube or grease is being used on the drive cable. The manual says " Lubricate the motor bearings with the light oil included with the model" Then says next paragraph "remove the drive cable and lubricate it with the light oil included with your model. Any light oil included for motor bearings would not be worth a darn for the drive cable. On 6s lipos the motor is turning some rpms and the flex needs a decent marine grease so it won't pull a bunch of amps and overheat the motor or ESC. What is the oil included ????? Traxxas should know better and newbs don't know. This is no sealed truck transmission driving wheels with bearings with little drag resistance on a hard surface. My two cents.

Stringfly <>++++

[Steven Vaccaro]

In running the numbers, it seems in order to hit 30 with nimh, its got to be the motor kv you guys assumed at 1600kv or so, if thats the case, 6s is really to much. 5s would be better.

[Brushless55]

In running the numbers, it seems in order to hit 30 with nimh, its got to be the motor kv you guys assumed at 1600kv or so, if thats the case, 6s is really to much. 5s would be better.

with maybe a prop change on 5s, this boat may work very well

[Brushless55]

After reading all this I am wondering what kind of lube or grease is being used on the drive cable. The manual says " Lubricate the motor bearings with the light oil included with the model" Then says next paragraph "remove the drive cable and lubricate it with the light oil included with your model. Any light oil included for motor bearings would not be worth a darn for the drive cable. On 6s lipos the motor is turning some rpms and the flex needs a decent marine grease so it won't pull a bunch of amps and overheat the motor or ESC. What is the oil included ????? Traxxas should know better and newbs don't know. This is no sealed truck transmission driving wheels with bearings with little drag resistance on a hard surface. My two cents.

Stringfly <>++++

right here buddy!
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pro...od=dh-aqub9500

[Steven Vaccaro]

with maybe a prop change on 5s, this boat may work very well

On 5s you may be able to use the stock prop or a metal one of similar size. But its going to take some testing.

[Checkmateguy01]

In running the numbers, it seems in order to hit 30 with nimh, its got to be the motor kv you guys assumed at 1600kv or so, if thats the case, 6s is really to much. 5s would be better.

The Traxxas spec page say's the motor is 1600kv. I'm probably never gonna run the boat on 6s personaly, but if get a new charger and some lipo packs i'd like to run 4s and 5s in it, sounds like that is gonna work like a charm!

[Brushless55]

I just cannot decide if I am going to cancel my order or not

[Darin Jordan]

The Traxxas spec page say's the motor is 1600kv. I'm probably never gonna run the boat on 6s personaly, but if get a new charger and some lipo packs i'd like to run 4s and 5s in it, sounds like that is gonna work like a charm!

Does the spec page say how many poles this motor is??

[martin]

Looks like the Spartan is going to be a 40mph boat if 5s is the safest to use, $400 + lipos is a very expensive boat for 40mph. Thanks Martin.

[djmaincheese]

4S on this boat is as bad as the stock packs. It's perfect if you don't want to go faster than 30mph and want 10 minutes or so run time.

[Brushless55]

Does the spec page say how many poles this motor is??

Darin, I don't think Traxxas knows, but my guess is 2 pole
I think is similar to other XVL motor

[djmaincheese]

This is what the Inside of the motor looks like. Im sure this guy knows how poles this motor is, lol



So is the consensus to switch to a lower kv motor (leopard 1300kv) if we only want to run 6S?

[Brushless55]

yep, lower kv and run 6s

[GeoVW72]

This is what the Inside of the motor looks like. Im sure this guy knows how poles this motor is, lol

So is the consensus to switch to a lower kv motor (leopard 1300kv) if we only want to run 6S?

yep, it's a two pole, I love taking things apart

not sure if it matters, but could the rotor balance be a problem

[djmaincheese]

This is a start and it's not going to break the bank..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CU2YUfJJ_M

[martin]

I know not many would replace the esc or motor with original Traxxas ones if they had problems with either, But out of interest i asked the price of a spare motor & esc from the UK importer of this boat & couldnt believe the price. Motor £160, esc £220, I can buy the complete boat & radio for £355. Thanks Martin.

[GeoVW72]

Looking over videos and had a thought.
Boats race clockwise, cars race counter clockwise, so most of the videos the boats are turning left.
The fact that the pick-up is on the right side of the rudder in the low pressure cavitation side of the rudder turning left causing no flow in an already poorly flowing system.
Looking at the Spartan front page vid, even in a shallow left turn the limited flow going off the left(right in the video) goes away.

Gentlemen turn your boats to The Right

[Darin Jordan]

Looking over videos and had a thought.
Boats race clockwise, cars race counter clockwise, so most of the videos the boats are turning left.
The fact that the pick-up is on the right side of the rudder in the low pressure cavitation side of the rudder turning left causing no flow in an already poorly flowing system.
Looking at the Spartan front page vid, even in a shallow left turn the limited flow going off the left(right in the video) goes away.

Gentlemen turn your boats to The Right

While I know that sounds like a good theory, in practice, if the rudder is a wedge rudder, the water remains in contact with both sides of the rudder, even in the turns, so this isn't generally a problem. LOTs of rudders have the pickup on the "wrong" side, and have no issues with water flow.

No one answered my question concerning the motor. How many poles is this motor?? Does it have any resistance or "cogging" when you rotate it by hand??

[GeoVW72]

It's a two pole, just one large slug for the rotor. not much cog, but you can tell where the poles are
the balance of the rotor is terrible.



might the force on the bearings also contribute to the heat?

[GP73]

The video is private?

Not sure if this has been posted already, but according to the owner of the boat the ESC went up in flames on the second run...

[Darin Jordan]

If this is a 2-pole motor, then it's simply the wrong motor for the application. NO TORQUE. It's an airplane or car motor...

Need to prop it way down and even then, it's going to build some heat, just like the Nemesis, Ammo, Faigo, etc., have always done.

A boat like this needs at least a 4-pole. All of the AQ and ProBoat stuff, except for the Widowmaker and really small stuff, uses 6-pole motors, which have proven to be reliable, and fast, workhorses, especially for their size.

[Brushless55]

It's a two pole, just one large slug for the rotor. not much cog, but you can tell where the poles are
the balance of the rotor is terrible.



might the force on the bearings also contribute to the heat?

Holly crap that's bad

[djmaincheese]

Looks like this may be the trick to keeping the stock components cool...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2FODuwKjIE

[martin]

Looks like this may be the trick to keeping the stock components cool...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2FODuwKjIE

I think an extra water pick up would work better than splitting the single line with the y conector. So you have better flo still to the motor & esc with 2 completely separate lines each with their own pick ups. Thanks Martin.

[Darin Jordan]

I think an extra water pick up would work better than splitting the single line with the y conector. So you have better flo still to the motor & esc with 2 completely separate lines each with their own pick ups. Thanks Martin.

I agree with Martin... Splitting a single supply of water to two components like that isn't helping much. You need to double the supply, not split the existing one, even if it's slightly improved.

Is the MOTOR in these actually getting hot, or is it just the ESC? What kind of temps are people recording?

Run the water through the ESC FIRST, then to the motor, would also make sense.

Pick up an AquaCraft SV27R water pickup or similiar and add it on as a second source of water.

Still all just bandaids to the real problem, but should help a little.

[Steven Vaccaro]

I agree that a second pickup should be the first place to start.
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pro...prod=ose-80410

I do not agree that the motor needs to be switched out at this point. Of course it can and will make a difference, but for those that do not want to spend the money, try changing the cooling and the when trying 6s I would not run huge mah packs. The longer you run, the higher the heat build up.

[martin]

How good are these silicon jackets over the aluminium ones that gives more heat disipation with aluminium ones purly through better conductivety of heat. Ive got one of these silicon jackets that was fitted to a leopard 4074 motor, All be it a different make to the Traxxas one. Ive not run this motor or cooler so cant coment on useing it but looking at the design of the internal water ways its very restricted in as much as that it has several quite small water channels molded in to it. Its not just one big open area inside the jacket as aluminium ones are + silicon dosnt disipate heat very well. I definately wouldnt buy a silicon jacket over an alloy one. Thanks Martin.