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Thread: Two Brushless motors on One ESC….YES!

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ub Hauled View Post
    Joe, I have a wrench to throw on your gears... how does the timing on the ESC act on the motors? Will it help with the sync?
    And, how about the SENSORED ESCs/MOTORS, have you done any testing with those?
    How are you?

    Thanks
    Missing your company on our lake runs........ Looks Like Mark and Tony will be down tomorrow and you ar always welcome (provided no rain!)

    I have a programing card for the Seakings so we can test it out but so far I have just used the default timing mode. Also, no sensored motors..I do not have any to test. I want to get some good numbers based on all the suggestions given in the forum on 2 motor 2 esc and 2 motor 1 esc DIRECT comparisions. I think that will tell a lot, especially if additional testing with timing changs, sensored motors, etc can be justified.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by FighterCat57 View Post
    Yes, having excellent results using mid-large helicopter ourtunners spinning boat props. High Torque and High RPM w/high efficiency.

    I have yet to try two motors from one ESC, but if I did, I would try the Suppo 200 and two 3126 outrunners. I would ask the MFR, but I don't want to confuse him any more. He's having enough trouble filling orders accurately.
    I have a HiModel (Suppo 200) ESC and two of those outrunners at 1600KV I will test after I get some apples-to-apples test data with my current outrunners and the SeaKing ESC. I was thinking of your application all along. (PS, the cost of copper plate and brass plate is the same at Industrial Metals in Ca for your cooling additions to the ESC's)

  3. #93
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    Here is a video of the direct performance comparisons via loaded bench testing of two motors with two ESC's and two motors with one ESC:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pP_V...=youtube_gdata

    The data summary is as follows: (you can verify it by the video of the testing):

    Test #1 Data: 2 Motors 2 ESC’s
    RPM Watts Force (grams)
    8,025 60 217
    9,500 97 330
    11,500 154 490
    12,700 208 619
    13,600 255 720


    Test #2 Data: 2 Motors 1 ESC’s
    RPM Watts Force (grams)
    8450 69 229
    10000 105 320
    11500 157 457
    13350 225 619
    14600 301 739



    The plots are very close as you can imagine from the above data. These tests have told me what I needed to know to proceed on a couple of special projects. ESC timing changes affect both motors the same. Two motors can run on a single ESC even under modest mismatch of load conitions. Hope some of you will find these results useful for future creative or experimental projects.
    Last edited by questtek; 12-29-2010 at 08:10 PM.

  4. #94
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    Very good read and quite interesting......................thanks for all your hard work!!

  5. #95
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    Attahed is a plot of the data for easy visual comparison....
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #96
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    OK...........went over the thread again, cant find my answer:

    Can one ESC power two motors with one reversed for a twin setup??????? Thanks
    NEED PARALLEL CONNECTORS?? QUALITY 5.5MM, 8MM, 8 AND 10 AWG, GET THEM HERE: https://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/...est!&highlight=

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Make-a-Wake View Post
    OK...........went over the thread again, cant find my answer:

    Can one ESC power two motors with one reversed for a twin setup??????? Thanks
    No.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Make-a-Wake View Post
    OK...........went over the thread again, cant find my answer:

    Can one ESC power two motors with one reversed for a twin setup??????? Thanks
    Long Answer;
    It can be done, but only with a dual driver dual fet board ESC. Basically two ESC's that run off of the same PWM signal and power leads. Each motor requires its own driver / fet setup and needs to operate independently. Especially if RPM is not exactly synchronized. IF the shaft is shared between two motors, in theory you can, but in reality one will pull more than the other and they will sorta fight each other since the kv between them is rarely exactly the same. Some have gotten away with using two motors off of a single ESC in light use applications.

    Short Answer; no
    FighterCatRacing Team CHING BLING - Ching Bling. Brilliant, Advanced Sparkle for your hull.

  9. #99
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    Thanks guys...............was hopin' i could.
    NEED PARALLEL CONNECTORS?? QUALITY 5.5MM, 8MM, 8 AND 10 AWG, GET THEM HERE: https://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/...est!&highlight=

  10. #100
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    PLEASE REMEMBER, THIS WAS DONE AS BASICALLY AN ACADEMIC EXERCISE ONLY. I just wanted to satisfy my technical side a bit when I did the experiments. While it is possible, (as I have shown for motors only running in the same rotational direction) it probably is rare if ever practical. For example, you could never power two 4072 brushless motors on a single Seaking 180. Academics over now..............

  11. #101
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    Out of interest, has anyone mentioned Fightercat's (Ben's) new twin motor esc? 2 motors, 1 esc If they handled more than 6s I'd have some on the way!

    6BOOST

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6BOOST View Post
    Out of interest, has anyone mentioned Fightercat's (Ben's) new twin motor esc? 2 motors, 1 esc If they handled more than 6s I'd have some on the way!

    6BOOST
    you beat me to it, I was reading saying, these guys could all use one of em:
    http://fightercatracing.com/index.ph...emart&Itemid=1

  13. #103
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    Is this esc just a concept? Has anyone ever purchased/used one?. It states none are available, and there is no picture to be had. One noteworthy statement:

    Timing in 1 degree increments 1-30 degrees (Timing MUST be properly set or will cause failure)

    This is bothersome since most motors I've purchased don't give a recommended timing setting. We use a broad setting margin according to the amount of poles the motor has and whether it is an inrunner or an outrunner. I wouldn't want to burn up either the motor or the esc due to the setting being off a degree or two.
    Legend 36 sailboat, KMB Powerjet Ed Hardy Viper, ABC jet pwrd BBY Oval Master, ABC Hobby Jetski, NQD Tear Into's, HK Discovery 500, MickieBeez pwrd Jet Rigger!, Davette/Gravtix jet sprint, KMB Powerjet Pursuit, NQD pwrd Jet Catamaran!,Steam pwrd African Queen, Sidewinder airboat, Graupner Eco Power

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundog View Post
    This is bothersome since most motors I've purchased don't give a recommended timing setting. We use a broad setting margin according to the amount of poles the motor has and whether it is an inrunner or an outrunner. I wouldn't want to burn up either the motor or the esc due to the setting being off a degree or two.
    You won't burn up the motor or ESC, you can change it a little (1 or 2 degrees) and see if you get a difference in amp draw/ speed. if it is bad, head backwards.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boaterguy View Post
    You won't burn up the motor or ESC, you can change it a little (1 or 2 degrees) and see if you get a difference in amp draw/ speed. if it is bad, head backwards.
    It also states: IMPORTANT: Timing must be set prior to test/use. DO NOT RELY ON FACTORY DEFAULTS THIS IS NOT A PLUG AND PLAY ESC

    So where do you start? Boaterguy, is your info speculation, or first hand with this esc? Without timing info from the motor manufacturer, you risk the 'failure' stated on the website.
    Legend 36 sailboat, KMB Powerjet Ed Hardy Viper, ABC jet pwrd BBY Oval Master, ABC Hobby Jetski, NQD Tear Into's, HK Discovery 500, MickieBeez pwrd Jet Rigger!, Davette/Gravtix jet sprint, KMB Powerjet Pursuit, NQD pwrd Jet Catamaran!,Steam pwrd African Queen, Sidewinder airboat, Graupner Eco Power

  16. #106
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    I'm no expert but starting at 8 degrees on most motors can't too be far of. Then it stepping up and down from there. A degree or two does not make that big difference unless you ar running a SAW setup.
    I would think the hotter (high kv) motors lower than 8 degrees would be the way to go.

  17. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundog View Post
    It also states: IMPORTANT: Timing must be set prior to test/use. DO NOT RELY ON FACTORY DEFAULTS THIS IS NOT A PLUG AND PLAY ESC

    So where do you start? Boaterguy, is your info speculation, or first hand with this esc? Without timing info from the motor manufacturer, you risk the 'failure' stated on the website.
    Actually that's quoted from the HV ESC's. Timing isn't quite as critical on the LV ESC's. I'll update the information, thanks for pointing that out. A degree or two on an LV ESC won't make much difference.

    If you're not familiar with timing, lipo LVC voltages, acceleration types or throttle curves, you probably won't like the ESC. It's fully adjustable and needs to be configured before being used for the first time. The factory defaults don't apply to all setups or preferences and could damage your lipos if run down to 3.0v or you could flip your boat if you're using an exponential throttle curve with soft acceleration set.

    The first two developed hot spots under heavy loads (~140amps) and eventually led to failure of the PCB, so we designed a new PCB layout with more copper and bigger solder pads for the FETS which should resolve the issue. This process takes a few weeks for the new PCB and then a few samples need to be assembled, then component tested.... then field tested. So I'd say by 11/1 ish. Also adding a spark suppression line and some misc firmware updates.

    The main purpose of the twin ESC is to simplify the wiring and appearance of a twin cat. I work directly with a group of electronics engineers that build the ESC's. They have over 20 years experience building electronic components and enjoy RC products themselves. I actually write some of the software as needed. Being a retired software engineer has its advantages.

    Anyway, hope the information helps clarify things a bit. Carry on.
    FighterCatRacing Team CHING BLING - Ching Bling. Brilliant, Advanced Sparkle for your hull.

  18. #108
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    Default other way around

    Ive read this entire thread, very interesting!! Will it work the other way around? 2 esc's to 1 motor? curious

  19. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by liteumup69 View Post
    Ive read this entire thread, very interesting!! Will it work the other way around? 2 esc's to 1 motor? curious
    this has been done with the lehner motors that have different windings (not sure exactly how they work but they have 6 leads).
    you would need expert advice from either the lehner manufacturer or someone who has done it.

  20. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by FighterCat57 View Post
    Long Answer;
    It can be done, but only with a dual driver dual fet board ESC. Basically two ESC's that run off of the same PWM signal and power leads. Each motor requires its own driver / fet setup and needs to operate independently. Especially if RPM is not exactly synchronized. IF the shaft is shared between two motors, in theory you can, but in reality one will pull more than the other and they will sorta fight each other since the kv between them is rarely exactly the same. Some have gotten away with using two motors off of a single ESC in light use applications.

    Short Answer; no
    Again the answer is No, but the last "hopin i could" reply is one of those only seeing what they want to, again, its your cash, have fun with it. :)

    What Fightercat has done is combine two esc's together for all intents and purposes, once additional fets and a controller are added it is no longer a single ESC, regradless of the power source application or single board. No lack of context and no comparison to apples and/or oranges. Not to take away from what FC is doing in any way, at least he pushing forward in the hobby in some way. keep the innovation coming FC, nice to see someone else putting their own money into the future of the hobby. :)

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