Rudder to Strutter conversion

[stringfly]

Our struts are not up that high. Just about 1/8" showing on top of bracket. This puts the centerline of the prop in line with bottom of ride pads.

Stringfly <>++++

[Darin Jordan]

Guys... be careful just using the amount of strut sticking up the top of the strut bracket for your measurements... The first batch of boats that went out, had the strut brackets mounted too low on the transom (compared to where I had specified they go and where the strut was designed to be), which is why there is a minimum amount of prop clearance. This is suppose to have been adjusted on future batches of boats. Not sure when that show up in the production line, however.

It's always best to measure from a setup board to the centerline or bottom of the strut itself.

[tiqueman]

Our struts are not up that high. Just about 1/8" showing on top of bracket. This puts the centerline of the prop in line with bottom of ride pads.

Stringfly <>++++

As I said, I went form as low as possible w/ different angles neg to pos to as high as possible.. thats just where I stopped. I started w/ it w/ the centerline of the strut w/ the ride pads as you suggest and the strut angle neutral while on a table top.

[tiqueman]

More testing today and feel like Im getting somewhere. I started w/ the strut neutral and about 1/2 below the bottom of the hull. Batteries were half inch off the back of the trays. Bounce bounce bonce. I left the batteries alone for all of the adjustment. I angled the strut down slightly, then up slightly.. bounce bounce bounce. I tried lowering the strut. And again went thru 2 different up angles and 2 different down, including neutral.. bounce bounce bounce. I then started slowly adjusting it higher and higher, again using all angles and it slooooowly began showing improvement. It seemed a slight positive and higher depth is what it wanted. I moved it up to clear by thousandths of the bracket and had the best run yet. However after bringing it in, she slipped a tad and the prop contacted the bracket just slightly. I re-set it, tweaked the prop and then I tried messing w/ the rudder angle. I tucked it forward, it seems to have brought the bow down in the straights, BUT, the bounce was almost gone. I pulled it back out just a bit and runing w/ the wind in about a 1/4" to 1/2" chop, light breeze, no bounce at all. Running into the wind she bounces minimally. My strut is angle slightly up and as high as it can go before the prop (642) contacts the strut bracket. Darin had mentioned that some of the struts were mounted at the bottom and caused issues w/ prop clearance. I feel I need to go a smidgen higher, but, My strut is one that is mounted at the bottom of the transom. Im going to remove part of the tail of the bracket to see if I can get enough clearance and if it is in fact my resolution before I go removing the bracket and drilling new holes in my pretty boat. I actually feel like Im getting somewhere.

Most importantly as Darin said, the strut brackets on these boats apperently arent all mounted in the same location. I feel its important in the "helping of others" that we get back to refering to the strut angle as compared to the bottom of the boat while sitting on a flat surface and not the "top of the strut" like we somehow got into on this.

Darin, thanks for your help in this set up. I was told by a reputable racer about pulling the rudder out.... DEFINITLEY not the thing to do. Since it was cornering wonderfully to begin with, I never thought to try tucking it in.... Thanks!

[shotimes95]

I installed the kintec bracket today and looked at some of the pictures from others postings. Some rudders are in the rear location and some in the front location. What is the proper location?

[dano1]

Correct me if im wrong but if the rudder is positioned further away from the transom as in the stock location on the m/g, isn't this why the boat handles so well on turning? I would think moving the rudder closer in that it would have some inpact on handling???

[dano1]

well i got my rudder bracket today and all went well on the installation.......i thought! I powered the radio up and had some binding on the right turn to the steering rod that was corrected by shimming the tie rod end, all looked good so off to the water shed i went............apon arival i noted some ice along the edges and found a spot to launch m/g............tapped the throttle and turned left but miss G went right.........right back into the ice off shore and got stuck, all i could do was laugh at myself for being (over excited) and not checking turning after i flipped the rudder arm to other side during installation, lucky for me no harm was done to rudder or my new bracket set up. Will double check my settings from now on. Guess thats what i get for leaving work early but a bad day of testing is better than a good day at work ...

MR TITANIC DANO

[kjohnsiii]

Dano, what bracket did you use?

[dano1]

Went with second version rudder relocate kit from kintec racing, the guys here told me about the prop wash issue that makes the boat bounce and how to correct it, its a nice kit for the money and i havent gotten to run my m/g today to really tune it in, they also told me to buy the break away screws just as a precaution measure. Im getting ready to install a higher rpm motor soon and have a octura x642 balanced prop on the way.......these guys wont steer ya wrong....im lucky to have found this site, i think half these guys here have gills!!!!

Dano

[kjohnsiii]

You craced me up with the gills comment. Your right though there are some good guys here. I got the same kintec su too. Have not run it yet, have only ran mine with the stock rudder and got her gps'ed at 37 with 4s. Broke 2 flex cables though. I called horizon today and they are shipping me 2 out. I was shocked!

[Boomer]

kjohnsiii
You said you are running your MG on 4s? What ESC are you running? These boats are wired in series, which doubles the voltage your boats systems are seeing.

I tried my MG on 3s, and toasted the stock 45 amp ESC. The boat ran like a rabbit on steroids before it went up in smoke.

I was fortunate that the damage was limited to the ESC, but it took a lot of work to get the smell out of the boat, and to clean up all the smoke that stuck to the inside of the hull. I have since installed a 120 AMP ESC.
Please be carefull.
Boomer

[kjohnsiii]

Thanks boomer for the safety tip. I have a 200 amper coming for now. So it's all good now.

[tiqueman]

Boomer, for clarification, saying 4S is correct. You ran yours on 6S, not 3S to blow it up. 3S it would do 20mph. 4S is what these run on.... doesnt matter how you get it there, as long as the end result is 14.8 volts (4S). I run 2, 4S packs in mine... 4S2P for racing. I run 1P for sport running and testing.

more clarification.... high voltage boats often use several packs of bateries.. lets say for an extreme example its running 12S... in theory you could use 6, 2S packs in series. Doesnt mean its a 2S boat and would not be called a 2S boat... its a 12S boat. Hope that helped.

[tiqueman]

Thanks boomer for the safety tip. I have a 200 amper coming for now. So it's all good now.

kjohn, if your keeping it stock, theres really no reason for that large an esc. If you plan on running 5 and 6S, then yes, its a good idea or if your going to try to swing a larger prop than say a 42mm.

Also, get away from the Horizon Proboat flex shafts. They are junk and you will continue to break them and have problems. I got 4 runs out of mine before it starting showing failure. OSE sells a great aftermarket shaft that will last, if well taken care of, years and years of running.

[kjohnsiii]

Thanks for the info. I did order a shaft from the ose store should get here thiks week,

[tiqueman]

Thanks for the info. I did order a shaft from the ose store should get here thiks week,

[Darin Jordan]

Also, get away from the Horizon Proboat flex shafts. They are junk and you will continue to break them and have problems. I got 4 runs out of mine before it starting showing failure. OSE sells a great aftermarket shaft that will last, if well taken care of, years and years of running.

That's interesting... I'm still on my first one, and I'm pretty sure I've run this thing harder than any of the rest of you to this point... I run mine to TRY to break things... It's kind of what they (ProBoat) expect me to do.

If you still have the "failing" or "failed" shaft, why don't you package it up and send it to me so I can analyze it and see what the problem might be? Then I can feedback the info to ProBoat and perhaps improve upon something. Contact me through PM if you'd like to do this.

Properly cared for, however, there is no reason why the factory shaft shouldn't have a normal lifespan....

[tiqueman]

That's interesting... I'm still on my first one, and I'm pretty sure I've run this thing harder than any of the rest of you to this point... I run mine to TRY to break things... It's kind of what they (ProBoat) expect me to do.

If you still have the "failing" or "failed" shaft, why don't you package it up and send it to me so I can analyze it and see what the problem might be? Then I can feedback the info to ProBoat and perhaps improve upon something. Contact me through PM if you'd like to do this.

Properly cared for, however, there is no reason why the factory shaft shouldn't have a normal lifespan....

I tossed it Darin. I tried heating it afterwards to salvage the stub shaft but had no luck, so I threw it all away. Ive heard from a few people the same scenarios. As for maintaining, I use grim grease (tip to tail) and a few drop of 3n1 oil along w/ the grease on the stub shaft. I also had the sieze problem w/ the factory strut bushings. This could have been what did the damage to my shaft. It did not break but there was only about 25% of it hanging on about 3/4" up from the stub. Fortunatley though it did not seize hard and came apart easily. Ives since gone to different strut bushings and Octura flex and stub shafts. I now have several runs, several hard runs, and no isuues.

On a side note as you think most of us dont know what we are doing when we break stuff (not saying that as sarcasm, just saying it) Ive been running boats since 1991, so I know how to properly care for a shaft.

[kjohnsiii]

Thanks Darin, I might have one of the shafts I can have you put under the micro scope. This could be interesting to see what happened to it. I don't want to go to the post office this time of year though... We could meet at star bucks? I am off today.

[7500RPM]

That's interesting... I'm still on my first one, and I'm pretty sure I've run this thing harder than any of the rest of you to this point... I run mine to TRY to break things... It's kind of what they (ProBoat) expect me to do.

If you still have the "failing" or "failed" shaft, why don't you package it up and send it to me so I can analyze it and see what the problem might be? Then I can feedback the info to ProBoat and perhaps improve upon something. Contact me through PM if you'd like to do this.

Properly cared for, however, there is no reason why the factory shaft shouldn't have a normal lifespan....

The problem with the Proboat shaft assembly is that the Prop Shaft is NOT counter drilled deep enough for enough cable to be inserted and properly bonded to the shaft.
When the cable problems first came to light I had the correct lay of cable, and when I removed the original cable on inspection the prop shaft IS NOT DRILLED DEEP ENOUGH.
The Octura prop shafts are. I used the Octura shaft and NO Problems.

[kjohnsiii]

Is this the one available in the ose store?

[Boomer]

Tiqueman
Thanks for the clarification. I ment to say by running the pair of 3s and in series, which made really made I was running it on 6s (cell) which made the boat go like a rocket just before it went CA BLEWIE! So, I was concerned if he was running a pair of 4s he'd be going to smoke the ESC. Before a got the the 3s, I was running a pair of 2s which gave the boat good speed, but nothing, I repeat nothing like the pair of 3s, or 6s as it turned out.

It would have be nice to know how fast it really went before I killed ESC!!The difference was amazing!

Is there a simple formula or way to calculate this stuff? I'd would rather not smoke any more ESCs. I would like to understand how to match battery outputs, to the Amp rating of the ESC, and both to the KV of the motor.

When my stock motors go south on my MG, EKOS and Genesis, I want to repower them with higher performance motors. My goals would be to have them running in the mid forties to perhaps, fifty mph, and to match components so I don't end up just creating small bombs that are just waiting to go off.

I have 2s, 3s and 4s 5000mha 30 and 40c batteries and some new 120A ESCs to play with. As you know two of these boats are single motors, and the EKOS has dual motors with 60amp ESC (1 for each motor). I would anticipate upgrading the ESC in the EKOS to at least 120A, but again, that will depend on the motors I go with. The Genesis came with a 125a ESC so, I have a little room there. I see the guys going with 180 and 240a ESC, but that is when you start spending the big dollars.

I have read so many threads with guys talking about the motors they upgrade to, but am not sure how they select them. Once you get that doped out then you have to figure out which props to use.

This is really interesting, but it is hard to find this kind of information clearly stated.
It seems like a trial and error thing for the most part. Any tips are appreciated.

Thank you
Boomer

[tiqueman]

Tiqueman
Thanks for the clarification. I ment to say by running the pair of 3s and in series, which made really made I was running it on 6s (cell) which made the boat go like a rocket just before it went CA BLEWIE! So, I was concerned if he was running a pair of 4s he'd be going to smoke the ESC. Before a got the the 3s, I was running a pair of 2s which gave the boat good speed, but nothing, I repeat nothing like the pair of 3s, or 6s as it turned out.

It would have be nice to know how fast it really went before I killed ESC!!The difference was amazing!

Is there a simple formula or way to calculate this stuff? I'd would rather not smoke any more ESCs. I would like to understand how to match battery outputs, to the Amp rating of the ESC, and both to the KV of the motor.

When my stock motors go south on my MG, EKOS and Genesis, I want to repower them with higher performance motors. My goals would be to have them running in the mid forties to perhaps, fifty mph, and to match components so I don't end up just creating small bombs that are just waiting to go off.

I have 2s, 3s and 4s 5000mha 30 and 40c batteries and some new 120A ESCs to play with. As you know two of these boats are single motors, and the EKOS has dual motors with 60amp ESC (1 for each motor). I would anticipate upgrading the ESC in the EKOS to at least 120A, but again, that will depend on the motors I go with. The Genesis came with a 125a ESC so, I have a little room there. I see the guys going with 180 and 240a ESC, but that is when you start spending the big dollars.

I have read so many threads with guys talking about the motors they upgrade to, but am not sure how they select them. Once you get that doped out then you have to figure out which props to use.

This is really interesting, but it is hard to find this kind of information clearly stated.
It seems like a trial and error thing for the most part. Any tips are appreciated.

Thank you
Boomer

Boomer, one of the biggest tools a lot of people use is FeCalc. If you have not downloaded it yet, do so, as it will help you tremendously. As for motors and options it does not have, you can usually find something close to get you in the ball park. It has motor selection, esc selections and prop selections to give you a rough estimate starting point.

https://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/...ghlight=fecalc

EDIT: Also Boomer, pick yourself up an eagle tree data logger if you havent one already. Its a fantastic tool and keeps the guessing out of already built set ups, and new set ups as a double check to see if you end up where you thought you would.

[dano1]

I was one of the few that got the correct prop shaft from the start and i requested the replacement they offered for free not relising that mine was turned in the correct rotations, i check it after every 4 runs to make sure all is well, no problems here with it but i use engine assembly lube on my shaft and havent seen any signs of friction wear, pretty much wipes clean with a towel, im kinda wondering the same as darin whats going on there with the breakage and whats the cause. Now assembly lube may not be the correct stuff to run on this shaft but it seems to do a good job for mine

dano