www.mlboatworksrc.com Laser cut race boat kits & accessories

[cybercrxt]

GAS scale winston Lobster is now ready! Mike

[duckbum]

Any way to do this one?
It's a "chisel-nose" with Pay-pak type cowling...

Nobody knows much about the boat...much less can build one?

Thanks..

[cybercrxt]

Any pics? Mike

[Diegoboy]

[cybercrxt]

Looks like nothing more than a cowling change. I dont know who makes that cowling tho! But the hull is probably the same, at least in RC form, Mike

[sailr]

that is not a chisel nose. It's a shovel nose, or round nose. Here is what a Chisel Nose looks like. Pretty rare.

[cybercrxt]

Too the top! Lots of good things lined up for 2011! Mike

[cybercrxt]

www.mlboatworksrc.com is now up and being updated!

[cybercrxt]

More frames added, lots of GAS size hulls too! Mike

[cybercrxt]

More updates and gas frames added. more 1/10th scales coming soon! Mike

[cybercrxt]

List updated! Lots of new 1/10th scales and GAS scale frames!

[daveives]

MY WINSTON EAGLE 1/8 SCALE BUILD EXPERIENCES (so far):

The laser-cut kit was well packed and sent using FedEx; it arrived in perfect shape. THANKS!!!

Other stuff I have had mailed USPS, Hong Kong EMS and FedEx have arrived in perfect shape. UPS has invaribily bashed recent and older large packages orders. At least the FedEx franchisees care about their customers, while UPS is just another job it seems. Thank you cybercrxt for using FedEx.

At first the cost seemed high, but it was well worth it since everything fit snugly with less than 2 minutes total of touch-up sanding - unbelievable tight fitting quality. I cannot imagine anyone trying to duplicate this by hand.

The plywood was marked the same as that sold by Midwest and by Superior Balsa. The Superior plywood at the recent WRAM shjow cost me slightly more than half of what the identical Midwest plywood cost at my LHS (who has now run out of it) The laser cut kit had one well executed oblong patch in its surface on the inside side of the boat in a non-critical structural area, otherwise it was perfect.

Some versions of the Winston Eagle Lobster boat have rear sponsons. They are not included in the kit. It would be nice to have a sub-kit for them.

I tried to get the laser cut pieces out with a razor blade but this not practical. Then I finally figured it out. The trick is to bend the part out one connection at a time by flexing the scrap/part connection until you hear a snap, then flex if the other way until it snaps again. This leaves very little to be sanded off.

It took a long time to piece together this 3d jigsaw puzzle, even though it is very well labelled. I then marked the pieces where they abutted with many different color markers, so a reassembly when gluing can be error-checked faster. When gluing the abutting heavy pieces supporting the sponsons together, temporarily insert stringers in the notches, clamp the pieces, then remove the stringers and clean the notches with Q-Tips so you will not need much sanding to assemble the stringers later.

For flotation I note that pink foam adds about 1 ounce for each 20 ounces of floataion capability, so I am going with compartments. The separate compartments include the sponsons, the wings connecting sponsons to fuselage, and multiple chambers in fuselage all tied together loosely with a kevlar or equivalent cord or shoelace. The sponson support wing individual compartments have also been made a single compartment by cutting holes in the center of the formers.

To enable safe air travel - to keep from breaking the compartments in the unpressurized cargo hold of an airplane in transit to a race, all compartments must be vented somehow. I have run a small tube from each compartment to a single compartment in the fuselage, which is vented thru a tube exiting the top of the cowl.

I also have installed a flush water pickup in the rear of each sponson to feed my "direct water injection" cooling system (search for the words in quotes for discussions of this).

The kit is not left-right symmetric, see the attached picture. I do not know if this is for prop torque or left-right turning reasons. Anyway, I built it according to the letter and number markings brunt very lightly in the wood.

The leading edge of the wings connecting the sponsons to the fuselage are built up from plywood layers glued together. I later realized that I should have used a solid wood piece for these which passes as a single 12" long bar through the hull for a little more strength with negligible weight addition (as long as it does not interfere with something inside the fuselage. There are some build pics at

http://www.intlwaters.com/index.php?...ic=43482&st=75

which show the two internal spars cut off and replaced by something looking like a bicycle spoke as another possible option. cybercrxt is known by spoonefcrx on the International Waters web site. The above url contains additional pictures not included in the OffshoreElectrics web site. Two other sites to check out are:

http://www.rumrunnerracing.com/fefor...hlight=Winston
and
https://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/...hlight=winston

I bought the cowl offered by www.RCBoatCompany.com. It is a high quality fiberglass two piece molding which weighs 10 ounces total. I intend to use it as a structural element, so the weight can be used for a beneficial purpose. But how do I get at the interior components for maintenance and/or replacement? The answer is that my fuselage access hatches will be from below. My cowl will be sealed by the top covering of the fuselage, making a single cowl compartment after cutting holes between the cowl pieces. By filling the cowl pieces with water and weighing the water, I figure that the cowl should provide about 167 ounces of floatation, less the 10 ounce cowl weight. The access from below looks better, as it hides all the tape.

I am going to try the Turginy 600 series of motors, if that does not work I will go to a proven Scorpion motor.

Rather than building the canards from wood I am going to use prefabricated symmetrical carbon fiber airfoil shaped beams otherwise known asa "helicopter blades". The front fixed one is going to be carried all the way through the sponsons to provide more strength to deal with possible collisions with a buoy.

That is where I am so far - but I have some questions which are posed here so that others involved in similar builds can benefit from the answers. I know that cybercxt will gladly answer any questions by phone, but posting them here can help others.

MY WINSTON EAGLE 1/8 SCALE QUESTIONS (for anyone to answer):

1) Where is the recommended center of gravity?

2) How much does your boat weigh so far, where is it's CG, is the drive system and rudder installed, and if the motor is installed where is it and about how much does it weigh? The answers will help me estimate were I have to place what to achieve a roughly accurate balance to hopefully avoid the need for adding lead weights.

3) Could someone measure their rear wing and supports so I can make my own from scratch. The same question goes for the front fixed and moveable canard chords.

4) What is the exhaust tube diameter, length, and exit angle relative to the fuselage?

[cybercrxt]

Dave, I will address your questions in the next post. Wanna post pics of my finish Lobster via cut and paste while I have them ready.

More pics:

[cybercrxt]

MY WINSTON EAGLE 1/8 SCALE QUESTIONS (for anyone to answer):

1) Where is the recommended center of gravity? Leading edge, to middle of the skid fin.

2) How much does your boat weigh so far, where is it's CG, is the drive system and rudder installed, and if the motor is installed where is it and about how much does it weigh? The answers will help me estimate were I have to place what to achieve a roughly accurate balance to hopefully avoid the need for adding lead weights.

You need to install everything into the frame, and start working on balance before adding the top decks. Everyones build will be different. For mine, I had to add 20 ounces of lead in the tips (10 ounce in each tip). You may not need that much. It really depends on how much weight builds up towards the rear of the boat. My hull will probably come in around 16lbs rtr.

3) Could someone measure their rear wing and supports so I can make my own from scratch. The same question goes for the front fixed and moveable canard chords.

Just buy wings from Phil Thomas, for $60 shipped, its worth it. Front canards, go by the Newton plans!

4) What is the exhaust tube diameter, length, and exit angle relative to the fuselage?

3", you will need to place your cowling on the boat, and see how long you need it. Not sure about the exit angle, that is a little to technical for me! haha

[hazegry]

wow mike that thing looks sweet! you sure do know how to build a nice boat

[cybercrxt]

'80 bud humpback 1/8th scale and GAS scale now updated and done. Mike

Current list available on intlwaters:

http://www.intlwaters.com/index.php?...pic=41052&st=0

[cybercrxt]

Just wanted everyone to know I am still full force with selling these kits. Not many updates done lately, but everything is still happening. Check the first page of this thread for the complete lists! Mike

[cybercrxt]

Just a little early summer bump! Mike

[cybercrxt]

I would like to offer from 7-16-11 to 8-16-11 a summer sale on all of my Hydroplane frame kits in any scale. This is only on existing drawn kits as I am really short on drawing time right now. Below are the prices shipping in the continental USA. Overseas orders, please contact me via PM to figure out prices and shipping. Thanks, Mike, ML Boatworks, madaccord@hotmail.com, (252) 717-6282

1/10th scale, normal price $130 shipped, Sale price $110 shipped
1/8th scale, normal price $160 shipped, Sale price $130 shipped
GAS scale, normal price $190 shipped, Sale price $165 shipped

These prices do not include any sheeting kits I may have for a few of the kits. It is based on my typical frame kits! Tunnel boat kits do not apply to this sale.

Kit list is on my normal sale thread located here:

My link

[cybercrxt]

Building season is here, and the kit selection has gotten better and better. Shoot me an PM or email for the latest and greatest list of hydroplane kits in many scales. I have the list as a word document so you can print out and review. Thanks, Mike, madaccord@hotmail.com, (252) 717-6282

[cybercrxt]

Sale is going on now. Check out my website, www.ml-boatworks.com

Thanks, Mike

[vasek]

Did anybody built the Miss Renault from Mike's framing kit?

I just received the kit and the hull bottom profile does not match the Newton scale plans

Mike's kit has a rounded belly @ the front of the hull instead of sloping straight up from R3 as it should.

See pics. The rails can be cut, but the ribs, due to the lightning hole.... well I'm pi$$ed. Emailed Mike to see what he says.

miss01.jpgmiss08.jpgmiss02.jpgmiss09.jpg

[cybercrxt]

Yeah you emailed me in the middle of the night. Why don"t you give me time to discuss why your kit was purposely done that way to help it stay on the water at 60mph. Even David Newton at Newton Marine has me modify the bottom of his boats, as well as every other hydroplane racer cause they know the boats have to be modified these days as the boats are running15-20 mph faster than when those paper plans were drawn. I will explain this more in the morning. Till then, calm down. Emailing me vicious words is not to kind either. Mike

[vasek]

Mike,
1) I hope I didn't wake you up emailing you 5 AM as you well know I am in Europe, so there's a time difference...
but I was never awakened by an email myself, so maybe call a repairman for your PC

2) When you advertise a kit for a Renault '83 boat, I don't think you have the "artistic" licence to change a basic design parametr,
like the bottom profile of a hydro to this extent and still call it Renault '83. Further more, I told you I was building from a Newton 1/8 plan, so if you knew about these MAJOR mods, you should have told me so before ordering. Just plain logic.

3) I paid $200 for your kit (including shipping/ customs) so do not be surprised if I am a little disturbed when I get 25% of the
ply pieces the WRONG SHAPE!

4) Your mods may not be the better than original (not my words) as it could create more lift than the actual design. All Renault Hydro
builds I have seen have the flat bottom witha change of angle of attack @ Rib 3 as per the Newton plans. See pic
Let us not forget, this is NOT a rigger but a SCALE boat, thus my huge surprise when i received the parts.

5) Also, as I told you in my email, your parts are mislabeled RIGHT and LEFT as the offset of the engine/cockpit is to the LEFT of the boat and NOT to the RIGHT as labeled on your cut outs. ALL the Renault '83 models I've seen are like this.

Finally, I just stated my surprise in my email to you at the wrong shape of the rails & ribs no4 through n06 which makes the majority
of large pieces in you kit.

PLEASE, address these issues here, as you advertise your kits he, so I think it's fair.

P.S. I offered you 2 options to settle this. 1) send me the correct parts as per Newton plans or 2) give me a rebate of some sort
and I will make my replacement parts myself. What is unreasonable about that?

Cheers, Vasek
missrenaultridepads1.jpg

[cybercrxt]

From the first post on the first page of this thread:


ML Boatworks
Laser cut Scale Hydroplane framing kits for over 40 different hulls. Offering 1/8th scale as the base scale with other sizes coming as time permits. These kits are based on the Newton drawings with improvements being made to ensure correct fitment of every frame, crossing point, and modifications being made to the ride surface as required.


First, I have been offering these kits for almost 2 years now, and not once have I had someone come at me like this. I should have known this would happen seeing is you complete raged at Mike Mcknight, warning him that if he did not ship your decal set out by January 9th that he would contact paypal. You came after the best decal maker in the country for scale boats because you were to impatient to wait like everyone else that gets a decal set from him. And the funny thing is, you had not even received your frame kit yet!

Second, Read the first paragraph, letting every buyer know their kits will have modifications to the ride surface. Looks like you failed to read that, or where to impatient to ask????

Third, All of the other buyers WANT, and need the modifications like this done to the bottom of their hulls. Over 200 frame kits have been put out there, and you sir are the absolute FIRST to complain that GOOD design additions were used. The only other complaint I had about a frame kit is when I went DIRECTLY from the Newton plans as the buyer knew the boat would fly like a kite..and it was very similar to how you want you kit done. I have built, and ran a hull similar to the way you want your kit done, and it turns into a kite, plain and simple. I have had some of the most top known racers in the country give me their info on great hull design, and shown me how critical a change such as this is. The thing that is obvious you do not understand about the Newton plans, are ones like the Renault were drawn over 20 years ago in some cases when engine power was WAY lower, and brushless motors were not even around. The boats needed more lift, hence the huge attack angle like the Renault Newton plans to help the lower powered motors get the boats moving to the 40-45mph speeds they were traveling. Now that engines are so much stronger, and brushless motors are leading the way, 60mph speeds are not uncommon, which makes old design habits like on those Newton plans obsolete. You seem to think the Newton sheet is Gospel and is the only way a boat can be built. The NAMBA and IMPBA rule book says quite the opposite. The main thing the rule book says is follow the Master hull roster for length, width, afterplane length, etc. Bottoms of the boats, as long as they are not doing some odd thing that completely changes it from being a hydroplane is perfectly legal. The funny thing is the Son of the Man who drew up that very Renualt plan set, the Late Roger Newton, calls me to discuss the changes he wants in the bottom of the boat because EVEN HE KNOWS the plans that were drawn 20 years ago have to get these improvements to work with todays power systems. How more real can you get than that??????

Last, since I knew how you were attacking Mike Mcknight for no reason at all and how you emailed me without even giving me some time to reply before rushing on here and talking about how pissed you were with your purchase, and the fact that a disclaimer was indeed posted on the first page in the first post, I see I have done nothing wrong. Everything with your hull is perfectly legal, and a performance enhancer. I am usually a very generous person, heck if you had emailed nicely wanting to know the reasoning for the changes, instead of threatened me in your email, I would have possibly drawn up those frames for you and shipped them to you at COST, but your attitude and obvious anger have forced me from wanting to go out of my way like I normally do for a customer. If you have anything else you need to discuss, please do so in an email as everyone here knows my work, all 200 plus buyers know that what I do helps the boat, and does not hurt it. And for that matter, the changes you want to do, are simple enough to modify yourself if you still, even after reasons have been laid out, feel the need to do so.


OH, one other thing, seeing as FE 1/8th scales are my choice as well, that modification I made to your hull, will also allow you to put the motor and batteries further forward, hence making your center of gravity BETTER. Try stuffing all that equipment into the original design, and get the center of gravity to 1" behind the sponson heel. But I am sure you already knew that! Mike

[cybercrxt]

Oh, and one more thing I forgot. The parts are not mislabeled from left to right. Because as RC boaters, we run in a clockwise manner, not counterclockwise like the full size hulls, changing the offset to the inside sponson is actually a very very common practice, hence why your kit was modified that way. Yes, Roger Newton might have drawn yours to the outside sponson, but I have about 60 of the Newton plans on my computer, and Roger went back and forth to each side with no set pattern of correctness, so please do not throw that at me either. Its pretty common practice. Mike

[cybercrxt]

Oh, and here is what happens when the bottom of a scale hull is set up correctly to help reduce lift:

[vasek]

Mike, I'm not going to argue with you, because it seems like a waste of my time . I will mention thought that in the definition of "riding surfaces" you would have hard time finding the bottom of a Hydro hull.... now modding riding pads, I would understand. But beyond that...

Also switching offset sides for a scale boat is NOT standard either, you would have a hard time finding "reversed" scale graphics for it.

If you were such an expert as you pretend to be, you would offer a choice of heavily modded/ non modded sets. With the CAD files it would be so easy to do. And yes the batteries are a pain to fit in the original design, but that's what separates the man from the boys in this hobby

I wish you luck with your business, but you won't get any more orders from me or other club members over here.

Oh one more thing, I would love to see that boat in the vid close up & underneath

V.

[vasek]

I believe this is your boat 44.178 m/h

[cybercrxt]

Why would I offer a kit that is unmodified and is proven inferior to the updated kits. That makes no sense. Why would anyone even want that. You are the FIRST one that has ever questioned the changes, out of over 200 sales, some to the worlds best scale racers...must be a reason why I am the expert I pretend to be. You know what, I'm done. Your cheap shots are getting old quick. Your negative, derogatory comments, and attitude are why I refuse to even entertain this any longer...I'm Done.