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Thread: Best bang for the buck 7.2-7.4 volts single battery?

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    Default Best bang for the buck 7.2-7.4 volts single battery?

    Keeping at 7.2-7.4 volts ie single battery Lipo or Nimh what is the best bang for the buck? Brushless motor which means changing esc or a slighter hotter brushed motor keeping the existing esc if so which one? Speed 600?

    I have no issue using a 7.4 lipo and timing runs to avoid damage to the battery. Presently I run at full throttle all the time with standard set up. When Nimh is fresh performance is ok but after a minute or so it drops off using 2000 Nimh

    Peter
    Last edited by CaptPJB; 07-31-2010 at 05:40 PM. Reason: Battery details

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptPJB View Post
    Keeping at 7.2-7.4 volts ie single battery Lipo or Nimh what is the best bang for the buck? Brushless motor which means changing esc or a slighter hotter brushed motor keeping the existing esc if so which one? Speed 600?

    I have no issue using a 7.4 lipo and timing runs to avoid damage to the battery. Presently I run at full throttle all the time with standard set up. When Nimh is fresh performance is ok but after a minute or so it drops off using 2000 Nimh

    Peter
    Welcome to the forum. First thing I would suggest reguardless which direction you (brushed/brushless) is change the stock esc out asap. It's just not up to the task. With a speed 600, new esc, diferrent prop and a 2s lipo you may mange high teens, low 20s. I say just go brushless, their are a number of members running brushless set-up here I will help you pick the right combonation. Member Jesse J has the fastest RIO I've seen on video. I sure he'd help you.

    O to your question use a lipo!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel6401 View Post
    Welcome to the forum. First thing I would suggest reguardless which direction you (brushed/brushless) is change the stock esc out asap. It's just not up to the task. With a speed 600, new esc, diferrent prop and a 2s lipo you may mange high teens, low 20s. I say just go brushless, their are a number of members running brushless set-up here I will help you pick the right combonation. Member Jesse J has the fastest RIO I've seen on video. I sure he'd help you.

    O to your question use a lipo!
    Understood about the stock esc. This is "throw down" boat so on a budget is there a HK brushless package that would work?
    Not looking for the ultimate just 18-22 mph at minimum cost. Figure stock 15-18 fresh battery. Anything around 18 sustained would be good

    Peter
    Last edited by CaptPJB; 07-31-2010 at 07:51 PM. Reason: spelling

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    shoot for around 3000KV motor a 38-40mm prop and a 120-150 amp ESC your boat will fly! on 2s or 3s you should get mid 20s and mid 30s, respectively.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse J View Post
    shoot for around 3000KV motor a 38-40mm prop and a 120-150 amp ESC your boat will fly! on 2s or 3s you should get mid 20s and mid 30s, respectively.
    The man has spoken!!!

    Thanks for backing me up Jesse
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel6401 View Post
    The man has spoken!!!

    Thanks for backing me up Jesse
    Don't dispute the words of wisdom but that combo with esc is $100 plus the original boat cost. For $200 I can get a modded sv27. I know I just sold one! This is meant as a anyone can use it throw down boat to lead them to the sport

    Looking for approx sub $50 tweaks to make the stock boat an 18 mph one if that is possible?
    Peter

    Best thoughts right now a big 7.4 lipo to keep voltage up over a 5 minute run
    Last edited by CaptPJB; 07-31-2010 at 09:15 PM. Reason: Added more

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    This may help

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimracer View Post
    vspec..

    your post is honest and well done..

    The Rio EP was not designed to be a speed demon.. If that was the case it would have been brushless.

    The market for this boat is the new guy that just wants to get the feel for an RC boat and the 2.4 is hobby shop friendly.. do ya know what I mean?

    Anywho.. YEP.. its time to MAKE IT ROCK.. mine has went 22 on a brush (Speed 600) motor and 7 cells..

    Lets have some fun………

    Grimracer CHALLENGE to the go fast guys……..Go ahead.. knock it off the top!

    ROCK ON!

    Grim

    Disclaimer: Modifying you boat will void the warranty.. but I bet you knew that!
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    Default ESC Just died

    Went to run the boat again last night and no motor although rudder works OK. Ran power direct to motor it spun up so it looks like the ESC is the culprit.

    Boat is two months old but sending it back for repair would cost more than buying a new ESC from Aquacraft but I don't think that is the way to go in the long run. Anyone know if I I have to send the whole boat back or maybe just the ESC?

    Anyway I guess it means upgrade time is coming sooner than anticipated I will continue to search forum for economical ESC and motor combo that gives a little more performance.

    How does one remove the radio box to access the ESC by the way, does the whole thing come out or do you remove the servo and radio then the wood floor?

    Peter

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    Good news Aquacraft is going to send new ESC still would appreciate some hints how to get to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptPJB View Post
    Good news Aquacraft is going to send new ESC still would appreciate some hints how to get to it.
    i left mine in the boat, too much of a pain in the a$$ to get out.
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    It's not hard to remove at all. First remove the servo and then the wood base will unscrew. Cut any connectors from the esc and pull it out. Don't leave the old one in the there. Take the time and remove it and do the job right. I removed the stock esc on 4 of these boats and I did not find it to challenging at all. I replaced it with the pro boat esc. well worth the extra expense.

    Hope this helps...

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    Quote Originally Posted by chummer View Post
    It's not hard to remove at all. First remove the servo and then the wood base will unscrew. Cut any connectors from the esc and pull it out. Don't leave the old one in the there. Take the time and remove it and do the job right. I removed the stock esc on 4 of these boats and I did not find it to challenging at all. I replaced it with the pro boat esc. well worth the extra expense.

    Hope this helps...
    Many thanks that is a help.Since Aquacraft are sending me the new ESC will not go the Proboat route right now.

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    It's my rescue boat so im lazy with it.. Charge, lube and rescue!!!
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    Thinking of going with an S600 motor for perhaps a little more speed, can some one tell me if I can run the standard prop or do I need to drop down to a 38-40mm?


    Peter

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptPJB View Post
    Thinking of going with an S600 motor for perhaps a little more speed, can some one tell me if I can run the standard prop or do I need to drop down to a 38-40mm?


    Peter
    Fun motor definitely faster than stock. I just put in the S600 with 7 cells and a xl-5 esc. It goes pretty good with the stock prop. Run about 7 minutes tops or it gets to hot. 10 min warm on 6 cells and a 7.4 lipo for 5 minutes and that was fun too. Removed one of the rudders and did not affect the handling much if at all. Also, upgraded to a .130 octura flex, teflon liner and brass stuffing tube. Will post a pic if I can find my camera.

    This is a fun boat but I am getting the itch to go brushless. Have an extra pro boat 2900kv, 60amp seaking and a stainless 34mm prop just sitting there...

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    Was thinking of this motor with standard prop mainly 2s use occasional 3s.
    Any and all comments appreciated. Was looking for a "zippy" Rio but not wanting to get in to the torque roll thing
    http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...idProduct=6525

    My thinking was standard prop is relatively big so need low kv and an 80-90 amp esc HK esc would be OK.

    Peter

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptPJB View Post
    Was thinking of this motor with standard prop mainly 2s use occasional 3s.
    Any and all comments appreciated. Was looking for a "zippy" Rio but not wanting to get in to the torque roll thing
    http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...idProduct=6525

    My thinking was standard prop is relatively big so need low kv and an 80-90 amp esc HK esc would be OK.

    Peter
    The KV you have selected is way to low, rpm is only 8k on 2s, and 13k on 3s. Way to low, you need to aim for around 22k - 30k for sport boating or just messing around. You need a 3000kv motor in that range like Jesse stated above.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel6401 View Post
    The KV you have selected is way to low, rpm is only 8k on 2s, and 13k on 3s. Way to low, you need to aim for around 22k - 30k for sport boating or just messing around. You need a 3000kv motor in that range like Jesse stated above.
    Thanks for getting me back on track obviously my kv math was off, was thinking a lower Kv = bigger prop but missed the point, 3000 x 8 = 24000 on 2s

    Peter

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptPJB View Post
    Thanks for getting me back on track obviously my kv math was off, was thinking a lower Kv = bigger prop but missed the point, 3000 x 8 = 24000 on 2s

    Peter

    What's the 8, where did that come from?

    Rpm is Kv x Voltage. So a 2s lipo is 7.4 volts a 3s is 11.1 volts (3000 x 7.4 = 22,200), (3000kv x 11.1 = 33,300)

    Lower KV you can run a loger prop, but you need more voltage for the motor.
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    Was just rounding up numbers too lazy to do he math at 7.4 besides which a 7 cell nimh is 8.2 so just took 8 as an average as I run both types of batteries.

    Thanks I am clear on kv and rpm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptPJB View Post
    Was just rounding up numbers too lazy to do he math at 7.4 besides which a 7 cell nimh is 8.2 so just took 8 as an average as I run both types of batteries.

    Thanks I am clear on kv and rpm.
    Copy, I understand now.
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    Can someone tell me if the stock ESC will run a S600 on 6 cells 7.2v without expiring?
    Looks like Tunnelvision changed his ESC to xl-5 not sure if it was because he had it or needed it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptPJB View Post
    Can someone tell me if the stock ESC will run a S600 on 6 cells 7.2v without expiring?
    Looks like Tunnelvision changed his ESC to xl-5 not sure if it was because he had it or needed it.
    The stock esc will not handle a s600, it barely handles the stock motor. I run a xl-5 myself reason being it is waterproof and can handle the load. I would imagine it can handle the s600 with no problem. Run the stock esc with that motor and it shouldn't take long before
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel6401 View Post
    The stock esc will not handle a s600, it barely handles the stock motor. I run a xl-5 myself reason being it is waterproof and can handle the load. I would imagine it can handle the s600 with no problem. Run the stock esc with that motor and it shouldn't take long before
    Upgraded to S600 motor and ProBoat ESC. Presently running stock prop.

    Runs well on 7.4 lipo after 5 minutes temp is 117 F in warm Texas water (around 86 F)

    On a 6 cell NiMH 105 F after five minutes.

    The lipo option gives me what I was looking for in consistent adequate speed as the NiMH drops off as the run progresses but is 117 F too hot?

    If it is options appear to be 40mm prop ( not sure what this would do to speed?) and or new cooling jacket, Presently using the stock coils that don't look too efficient compared to a silicon jacket?

    What prop are you using with the xl-5 Diesel?

    Any comments appreciated

    Peter
    Last edited by CaptPJB; 09-12-2010 at 05:41 PM. Reason: Added question

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptPJB View Post

    What prop are you using with the xl-5 Diesel?
    Stock Prop.

    I didn't/don't spend a lot of time on that boat. I couldn't tell you the last time is has been in the water. Right now it's stripped. I use a PB Apache as my rescue boat now.
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    Xl-5 with S-600 is a reliable setup. Here's a quick vid of mine with the stock prop on 2s lipo. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRlE4...eature=channel

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    Looks good about the speed I was looking for. What batteries are you using?

    Mine was running very hot with stock prop and 7.4 lipo although speed was good. Waiting on a 40 mm prop to see if that helps. With the vent holes in the S600 and the Rio mount I have not found any better cooling method than the coils. For sure a silicon cooling ring does not work.

    S600 and ProBoat ESC (which runs cool)
    Last edited by CaptPJB; 09-21-2010 at 02:36 PM. Reason: Added comment on ESC

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    WHen I use a 7.4 lipo, the motor is hot after 10 minute runs. hehe. But if i run for 5 to 7 minutes its just warm. I also use a 7 cell 3000mah and its quick with that too and everything stays warm after 5 to 7 minutes. I used to use the proboat esc but it got too hot. Motor runs MUCH cooler with the xl-5. I used this setup most of the summer and have had no problems(knock wood).

    Have been wanting to change to a 40mm prop so I can run longer and keep things cooler. Let me know how it works out for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tunnelvision View Post
    WHen I use a 7.4 lipo, the motor is hot after 10 minute runs. hehe. But if i run for 5 to 7 minutes its just warm. I also use a 7 cell 3000mah and its quick with that too and everything stays warm after 5 to 7 minutes. I used to use the proboat esc but it got too hot. Motor runs MUCH cooler with the xl-5. I used this setup most of the summer and have had no problems(knock wood).

    Have been wanting to change to a 40mm prop so I can run longer and keep things cooler. Let me know how it works out for you.
    Put the 40mm on today and it did drop the temps some. I am certainly envious of your temps. . With a 2200 mah Lipo I was hitting 150 f after five minutes on stock 42mm but with a 40mm it is around 130F. However it did appear to reduce the speed a little but still acceptable.

    Maybe the 84 F water I am running in is not helping, I would like the temps around 120 F for peace of mind although I have not been able to find what numbers others call acceptable or hot. ESC and battery run around 105F. Certainly seems the xl-5 runs things cooler than the Proboat if your water temp is anywhere near to 80F

    Peter

    Just done another 5 minute run after adjusting motor angle to shaft at coupling . Battery 2000 NiMH 110F , ESC 105 and motor 119F at hot end by coupling . Speed stayed pretty consistent only dropping a little during the last minute of a 5 minute run. Certainly getting better consistent speed performance run times with 40 mm, at a guess 40mm and S600 is slightly faster than stock 42 mm and stock motor but lasts longer on same battery. Will comment further when by buddy gets his stock Rio out. ( have to say his always slightly outran mine both stock and using same battery 2000 NiMH.)
    Last edited by CaptPJB; 09-21-2010 at 08:32 PM. Reason: Added more info

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptPJB View Post
    Put the 40mm on today and it did drop the temps some. I am certainly envious of your temps. . With a 2200 mah Lipo I was hitting 150 f after five minutes on stock 42mm but with a 40mm it is around 130F. However it did appear to reduce the speed a little but still acceptable.

    Maybe the 84 F water I am running in is not helping, I would like the temps around 120 F for peace of mind although I have not been able to find what numbers others call acceptable or hot. ESC and battery run around 105F. Certainly seems the xl-5 runs things cooler than the Proboat if your water temp is anywhere near to 80F

    Peter

    Just done another 5 minute run after adjusting motor angle to shaft at coupling . Battery 2000 NiMH 110F , ESC 105 and motor 119F at hot end by coupling . Speed stayed pretty consistent only dropping a little during the last minute of a 5 minute run. Certainly getting better consistent speed performance run times with 40 mm, at a guess 40mm and S600 is slightly faster than stock 42 mm and stock motor but lasts longer on same battery. Will comment further when by buddy gets his stock Rio out. ( have to say his always slightly outran mine both stock and using same battery 2000 NiMH.)
    40mm sounds to be a bit better but I like more mph's. Where did you get yours? I think I'll give it a go. I usually run it with my 7 cell nimh, save my lipo's (5000mah 25C) for my Supervee. Definitely, want to run it a little longer.

    Curious how it stands up to a stocker with the same battery. I really need a GPS to get a better grasp on mods.

    Rob

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