New Hobby King Cat (Surge Crusher)

[vasy]

[QUOTE=electric;200456
On the debated shaft issue. Look at the picture that comes with the boat, it specifcally states to push it through to the motor(step2). I took a picture of it. See that groove in the shaft. that prevents the shaft from comming out the back of the strut. I just thought about it some more. You could remove the prop, drivedog and the strut itself and then probably pull it out the back...

Once I get the leak fixed (almost fried my datalogger) I will take it out for a long run for more data and heat testing[/QUOTE]

It could be sucking in the water through the drive shaft.

From the instruction (I have the same as you just for a different boat, they must use one for all) you only need to do step 1 and pull out the shaft and the strut/prop assembly. I also drilled a small hole into the strut to lubricate inside there with out taking apart the assembly all the time. Just cover the hole with tape and it seems to works well.

Wow, 60km/h for a cheap stock boat is not bad at all. Try it on 5s :)

Check out the pictures, I have the same square motor coupler and same one screw removal as in your instructions. I took step by step pictures. Is yours not the same system?

[electric]

Thanks Vasy. Yes, I ended up doing just what you are showing. You can get that shaft out, but then you have to take off the drive dog and prop to get the shaft out of the strut to oil that. Not the best. EDIT..Vasy, just re-read your post good idea about drilling a hole in the strut. "SailR", sorry for being so thiick headed you were right also.

Now on to new stuff. I tested the water cooling system and there were no leaks which points me to the shaft. I started looking at that and here is the deal. The teflon shaft the boat is using is so big in diameter no wonder the water is coming up into the boat! (Just as you noted Vasy, read your thread after I was out in the garage working on this) Matter of fact, it is so big you can take a teflon tube (.187) and slide it "inside" the orginal teflon shaft and then put drive shaft though that. A nice cheap easy fix for this problem!!!

I am trying to see if I can just use the boat as it comes, not gut it and start replacing stuff, otherwise what is the point of a cheap boat?

By the way I pulled off the tape and part of the stickers came off. They have the stickers placed right where you tape. They do send you some other cool stickers though.

I will take it back out this afternoon and see if that fixed the water issue and also do some more measurements.

[hpipro4]

hey electric,

where did you purchased the teflon tubing you use to fill up the gap between stock stuffing tube and 5mm flex cable?

will this work? http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pro...=oct-oc187t-24

thnx

[electric]

hey electric,

where did you purchased the teflon tubing you use to fill up the gap between stock stuffing tube and 5mm flex cable?

will this work? http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pro...=oct-oc187t-24

thnx

Yes. That is the right stuff.

[electric]

Well, I did my evening run and the boat ran great. I would post the data, but it is pretty much the same. Top speed is about 35 - 37mph. I am sure if I put an x440 or even an x442 prop on I am going to easily go past that and I probably will try it later on. I am still having a water issue. I am going to re-test the tubing and the seals around the motor tonight to see if I missed something. The Teflon liner I put in really is working great no extra resistance and much nicer fit around the shaft so I feel that is not my problem at this point.

There is a piece of aluminum tubing that is epoxied to the hull so I know that is not leaking. I am thinking about putting some adhesive around the "big" outer teflon tube and then sliding that into the aluminum shaft to ensure it has a good seal. First though, I am going to recheck the tubing.

[electric]

So, it is possible to buy a boat for about 180 dollars(with shipping), put some lipo's in it, use the plastic prop that came with it and hit about 37mph. Not too bad. I did not put any additional "hop ups" on it at all except for the teflon shaft mentioned. This boat does take some "tinkering" to get some of the rough edges worked out, but not too tough. I had my son drive it this evening and he had a blast with it. By the way, I owned a BlackJack boat before and this thing does waaay better in the turns with no turn fin. I hope you all enjoyed the review and thanks for the help from other people reading the thread.

[electric]

Well I thought I had the water coming up the shaft problem fixed, but no luck. I thought that maybe the water was pushing up its way though the front of the strut and creating pressure that pushed it up the shaft. To solve this I wrapped some electrical tape around it to create a seal. As you can see by the pictures it is pushing the grease and water up the shaft and into the boat. I have had numerous boats, but have not seen this problem to this extent. Any ideas for me to try???

[crabstick]

try putting a bit of heat shrink between the strut and the shaft.

[vasy]

I've seen guys add a fuel tube between the motor and the cable tube to stop the water from coming inside. I don't have a picture and I've not done that on my boats yet, I just add auto-bailer :)
Basically same idea as you had with electrical tape just on the other end of the shaft and it is a fuel tube instead of the tape..

[FighterCat57]

Well I thought I had the water coming up the shaft problem fixed, but no luck. I thought that maybe the water was pushing up its way though the front of the strut and creating pressure that pushed it up the shaft. To solve this I wrapped some electrical tape around it to create a seal. As you can see by the pictures it is pushing the grease and water up the shaft and into the boat. I have had numerous boats, but have not seen this problem to this extent. Any ideas for me to try???

I'm having this same problem on the Apparition. Can't seem to figure out where the water is coming in. The next thing I'm going to try is to eliminate any extra space in between the prop dog and the strut. Since the hard prop shaft is captive, this might help reduce water intake if coming in via the shaft. I already have the shrink tube installed over the stuffing tube & strut and it did help reduce the shaft splatter.

HTH

[electric]

Thanks for the suggestions. It is an odd problem. I even was looking at the texture of the shaft compared to others I have to see if that had something to do with it. I will go ahead and do the shrink wrap round the strut area, but I doubt that is going to do it since the electrical tape essentially was doing the same thing.

There is something about the design of the drive system that is not quite right. I might go ahead and take a .187 shaft and standard collet and see what happens. I have those laying in my parts bin I think. Interesting problem.

[electric]

I've seen guys add a fuel tube between the motor and the cable tube to stop the water from coming inside. I don't have a picture and I've not done that on my boats yet, I just add auto-bailer :)
Basically same idea as you had with electrical tape just on the other end of the shaft and it is a fuel tube instead of the tape..

Yes, I have seen pictures of that and understand how to do it. I will need some big diameter fuel tubing which I don't have handy right now. I really work to make sure my hulls stay dry at all times(few drops). Just don't want the hassle of glitchy electronics. This thing is so bad right now it has several tablespoons of water at the end of the run. I understand now why the "kit" came with a balloon for your receiver and the esc is completely sealed in silicon. It seems as though the manufacturer expects the boat to run "wet" inside.

[befu]

So, it is possible to buy a boat for about 180 dollars(with shipping), put some lipo's in it, use the plastic prop that came with it and hit about 37mph. Not too bad. I did not put any additional "hop ups" on it at all except for the teflon shaft mentioned. This boat does take some "tinkering" to get some of the rough edges worked out, but not too tough. I had my son drive it this evening and he had a blast with it. By the way, I owned a BlackJack boat before and this thing does waaay better in the turns with no turn fin. I hope you all enjoyed the review and thanks for the help from other people reading the thread.

did I read your amp chart wrong? It looks like you are peaking at 90 amps and pulling in the 60 range once things settle down. It's listed as a 50 amp speed control!

That seems like a lot of amps for a 3656 motor if I read that right. Longevity will be the next question.

[vasy]

I understand now why the "kit" came with a balloon for your receiver and the esc is completely sealed in silicon. It seems as though the manufacturer expects the boat to run "wet" inside.

Like miss Elam I guess, can't find a good way to seal inside.
I just use this stuff, take the receiver out of the package, cover it with one layer, let it dry for 10 minutes, cover it again with the 2nd layer and let it dry overnight. Put it back into the case and just run the receiver open, underwater or whatever. I only leave pins and top of the led not covered (I just paint over the LED and then use my finger to clean the top of glass right away)
Now your receiver is 100% waterproof... I once flipped my boat and it sunk 3/4 way down with just the nose pocking out. I had full control for 20 minutes, the time it took to drive the boat back (long story) and the receiver still work 100% many weeks after and I even never bothered to dry it.
Cheap insurance, I do it in all my boats now and have never had an issue and almost all receivers got covered in water one time or the other.

[Basstronics]

Im having the same water issue with my "small bolt".

I am going to try the heat shrink. Did you use a ton of grease on that cable?

[electric]

Im having the same water issue with my "small bolt".

I am going to try the heat shrink. Did you use a ton of grease on that cable?

I suppose more than usual, but nothing to crazy. I have run several FE boats and have not encounted this problem at this degree ever. See how it "pushed" all the grease up through the shaft into the boat. That is strange. I have never seen a shaft drive do that. That is why I am thinking somehow we are getting water pressure pushing up the shaft. Which leaves me wondering about the strut design.

This the "smallest" FE boat I have run before, maybe this is more common with smaller boats?

[electric]

Like miss Elam I guess, can't find a good way to seal inside.
I just use this stuff, take the receiver out of the package, cover it with one layer, let it dry for 10 minutes, cover it again with the 2nd layer and let it dry overnight. Put it back into the case and just run the receiver open, underwater or whatever. I only leave pins and top of the led not covered (I just paint over the LED and then use my finger to clean the top of glass right away)
Now your receiver is 100% waterproof... I once flipped my boat and it sunk 3/4 way down with just the nose pocking out. I had full control for 20 minutes, the time it took to drive the boat back (long story) and the receiver still work 100% many weeks after and I even never bothered to dry it.
Cheap insurance, I do it in all my boats now and have never had an issue and almost all receivers got covered in water one time or the other.

Thanks. Just placed my order...

[crabstick]

if any water can get into the driveline before the drive dog, it tends to hit the drivedog, and turn around and come right up the stuffing tube and into the boat.

I run the stuffing tube right through the strut and put a bit of heatshrink over where the tube enters the strut.

My boats run dry!

[Basstronics]

I suppose more than usual, but nothing to crazy. I have run several FE boats and have not encounted this problem at this degree ever. See how it "pushed" all the grease up through the shaft into the boat. That is strange. I have never seen a shaft drive do that. That is why I am thinking somehow we are getting water pressure pushing up the shaft. Which leaves me wondering about the strut design.

This may be a dumb thing... but...

I havent checked this either.

I realize they make left and right lay flex cables. It may be possible the lay of the cable that comes with these boats is acting like a screw and pulling water/grease into the hull...

Just a guess. I need to look to confirm. Im sure you can do the same... Makes logical sense though.

[electric]

I'm having this same problem on the Apparition. Can't seem to figure out where the water is coming in. The next thing I'm going to try is to eliminate any extra space in between the prop dog and the strut. Since the hard prop shaft is captive, this might help reduce water intake if coming in via the shaft. I already have the shrink tube installed over the stuffing tube & strut and it did help reduce the shaft splatter.

HTH

Let me know how that works for you. I have thought about that to. I am concerned that even with that teflon washer between the drive dog and the strut that it will bind drive shaft and create issues...

[electric]

This may be a dumb thing... but...

I havent checked this either.

I realize they make left and right lay flex cables. It may be possible the lay of the cable that comes with these boats is acting like a screw and pulling water/grease into the hull...

Just a guess. I need to look to confirm. Im sure you can do the same... Makes logical sense though.

I checked that a night or two ago thinking the same thing. No luck. The wind is the same direction as "standard" shaft. Let me know if you see different.

Well, I am calling it a night. I think I will do the shrink wrap around the strut and see if it improves.

[electric]

did I read your amp chart wrong? It looks like you are peaking at 90 amps and pulling in the 60 range once things settle down. It's listed as a 50 amp speed control!

That seems like a lot of amps for a 3656 motor if I read that right. Longevity will be the next question.

Yes, I noticed that to. However, I have seen simliar reading on a UL1 and a SV. It is amazing what you find out with a datalogger. Turns out that there are a lot of high peaks those ESC's deal with that I was never very aware of. Time will tell on the durability I suppose.

[electric]

Let me know how that works for you. I have thought about that to. I am concerned that even with that teflon washer between the drive dog and the strut that it will bind drive shaft and create issues...

Hey! Wait a minute! This may help. I have been leaving the 1/8 gap between the drive dog and strut, but with this odd design of the drive shaft there is no reason to.

The reason is you can snug it up (still turning freely) is because it is on the solid shaft and ridge on the shaft on the other side of the stut keeps the fore and aft distance on the strut constant. If the flex cable tries to pull the assembly inward when you thottle up it will not because it is free floating(not like most collets) so the square drive will just pull away from the collet a bit. This may be a major factor in the problem.

Something new to try.

[lectriglide]

This may be a dumb thing... but...

I havent checked this either.

I realize they make left and right lay flex cables. It may be possible the lay of the cable that comes with these boats is acting like a screw and pulling water/grease into the hull...

Just a guess. I need to look to confirm. Im sure you can do the same... Makes logical sense though.

I'm pretty sure all flex cables do this. That is the reason you leave a gap between the drive dog and strut. As they spin and create resistance, the cable "tightens" and shrinks. Think about it, if it were spinning against the "wrap", it would unravel (I know this from experience, had the motor running backwards and forgot to check).

Since I ruined the teflon tube with the unravelled flex cable, I just run without it but did notice a lot more water inside. Put a small piece of fuel tubing over the stuffing tube so only about 1/16 of an inch touches the flex cable and no more water!

[ray schrauwen]

There is nice heatshrink with adhesive inside. I like it because the glue keeps the grease inside better.

[D&D]

In a square drive system all of the pressure is at the drive dog and the strut. That teflon washer would normally be the only "bearing" (or thrust bearing) that is taking the pressure from your drive. Tried teflon years ago with nitro boats and the teflon bearing would not last long, they would crush. Areomarine makes a nice metal and platic (washer) bearing that works well with square drive systems.

[Graeme]

Well here is my first run of the boat I have the same problem with water coming up the shaft.



and here is the second run not much to say here I think water may have seeped into the esc.



They want me to ship the whole boat in for warranty I think It will be cheaper just to buy an new esc

[Basstronics]

I would just throw a fit on that. What good is sending the entire boat in?

Just a hassle maneuver. jerks.

[HYDROJERRY]

I would just eat it and get another esc you no how long shipping takes and being waranty it will be twice as long...

[Graeme]

I agree I just ordered another esc off ebay