New ShockWave 26 Brushless

[Svenster]

Need some advice on Shockwave BL that I bought for my son at the end of last summer. We have had lots of fun with this RC. Last nighT he ran into the dock and damaged the front of the plastic hull, bending the nose down with a small crack (argh!). Still operational but I want to repair the nose. Any advice on how to do that?


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[mickvk]

I have had really good luck using the PC-11 Marine epox - it's like JB weld. You stir it up and it's like clay - not too goopy like epoxy. Spread it on with a stick. Then what I do is use a wet paper towel to smooth the application rather than sanding and painting. No problem. The color will even match pretty good. The quicker alternative would be to just use some shoe goo. hope that helps.

[Svenster]

I have had really good luck using the PC-11 Marine epox - it's like JB weld. You stir it up and it's like clay - not too goopy like epoxy. Spread it on with a stick. Then what I do is use a wet paper towel to smooth the application rather than sanding and painting. No problem. The color will even match pretty good. The quicker alternative would be to just use some shoe goo. hope that helps.

Tried the PC-11, work really well. Thanks for the tip.


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[straightbuggin]

just bought one 2 days ago and am running a venom 2s 5000 mah lipo and this thing flies and dosent get hot or nothing. awesom lil boat

[Svenster]

The shockwave is still going strong for several summers now. My son and really are enjoying this hobby. Question though, i noticed that water is not coming out the side of the boat (cooling). I pulled the tubing and i can blow water through each tube except for the tube thst sttached to the BL moter. Is this normal? Any ideas why no water is coming out the side.


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[lenny]

Svenster.

It sounds like it is clogged with sand and debris in the water nipples or in the jacket,
Try taking the motor out and sliding the jacket off and cleaning it out.
Can you post some pictures of what line you are talking about ?

[bigcam406]

whats the difference between the 2900kv motor this boat comes with and the 1500kv motor version 3 comes with? is one motor faster than the other? im trying to understand what the kv means pertaining to brushless electric motors.sorry for such a newb question,ive been an internal combustion fan my whole life...

[yellowbird]

Hi Svenster

I have had this problem a couple of times and found that one of the water nipples on the jacket gets blocked. To fix it I take a 1/8" drill and push it down inside the nipples to clean out the corrosion/ dirt. I can just about do this with the motor in place, just by pulling off the silicon water tubes. I need to do this 1-2x per year I find, but it means I don't need to remove the water jacket.

To make sure it's clean I take a plastic syringe (from Rite-Aid or similar), fill it with water and then push it up inside the water pipe that normally connects to the top of the rudder. I then push this water through the system to make sure everything is clear - the water will come out the outlet in the side of the hull if everything is OK.

If not, you can take the syringe and check each hose in turn to find the blockage.

-yellow-bird

[yellowbird]

Hi Bigcam 406

the motor kv tellks you how fast the motor will spin for a given voltage. a 2900kv motor will turn at 2900rpm if 1 volt is applied, while a 1500kv motor will turn at 1500 rpm if 1 volt is applied.

The 2900kv motor is designed for about 7.4 volts (2 cell lipo or 6 cell NiMh) battery and gives good power [2900kv x 7.4 volts = 21,460rpm nominal].The 1500kv motor is really designed for 14.8 volts (2x 2 cell lipos or 2x 6 cell NiMh) [1500kv x 14.8 volts = 22,200 rpm nominal] and will give a little bit more power on 14.8v than the 2900kv motor will on 7.4v as it has more torque, but much less power if you ran both motors on 7.4 volts as it would only be turning at 11,100rpm.

The 2900kv motor is similar to the 1500kv motor in terms of size, but I think has different internals in terms of the magnet design. The main benefit of the 2900kv motor is you only need one battery at a time which saves money and simplifies charging.

-yellowbird

[J.W. Pepper]

Let me start off by answering your KV question, that will help the rest of this make sense. In simple terms, KV = RPM's per volt from the battery.

Is this the boat you have?.... http://www.proboatmodels.com/Product...ProdID=PRB3150 - if yes, check the specs; it was intended to be run on (1) 7.2v NiMH or (1) 7.4v LiPo battery. So take 2900Kv x 7.2v battery voltage = 20,880-RPM's unloaded. Also notice that it has a steerable outdrive system with a 1.34" x 2.06" prop.

I asked a forum member (name withheld) if the steerable outdrive system is the same as surface drive as far as how much of the prop is in the water. Or is it more like a semi-submerged setup where more of the prop is underwater. Boats that have submerged props generally use a smaller diameter prop because the entire thing is in the water all the time & therefore harder to spin.

In surface drive systems, only 1/2 the prop is in the water at one time. Look at the back of your boat, one blade is pointing up & the other one is pointing down. So naturally, it takes less energy to rotate it.

Now let's look at the V3 Shockwave... http://www.proboatmodels.com/Product...ProdId=PRB0650 - It can use (1) 7.2–8.4v NiMH or (1)2S~3S battery. So lets take the max batt it can use for our purpose's, 1500Kv x 11.1v = 16,650-RPM's unloaded. HOWEVER, it uses a surface drive system with offset rudder, and, it is also turning a 1.6" x 2.5" prop.

I am still trying to figure out props, so I will refer you to this website... http://rcraceboats.webnode.gr/news/gas-prop-essentials/ - yes, they're talking about gas boats, but that doesn't matter, the concepts are the same regardless of how the boat is powered. They explain the relationship that diameter & pitch play in propelling a boat through water.

Provided I have done my math correctly, God I hope so, because I've been trying really hard to learn this stuff.
The 1.34" x 2.06" prop looks like this: 1.34"(34.036mm) Diameter x 1.5373"(39.047mm) pitch - for a total Pitch of: 1.34" x 1.5373"=2.0599"(52.3215mm). This prop is essentially the same as the Octura y534... http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pro...?prod=oct-y534

The 1.6" x 2.5" prop looks like this... 1.60"(40.64mm) x 1.5625"(39.6875mm) pitch - for a total pitch of: 1.6 x 1.5625"= 2.50"(63.5mm). It's very close in size to the Octura x640 - 1.5748"(40mm) diameter x 1.6"(40.64mm) pitch - for a total of 1.5748" x 1.6" = 2.51968"(63.9999mm).

Summary:
I don't know anything about the 2900Kv motor in the original SW26. What I do know is that if the 1500Kv motor found in the V3 boats has anywhere near as much torque as it's 1800Kv big brother, than I can understand why PB is using it.

Compare the props from the two different models. The V3's prop has slightly more pitch than the V1, but not much. However, V3's prop is much larger in diameter 1.60"(40.6400mm) vs 1.34"(34.036mm) than the V1 boats. I refer you back to the prop essentials website to understand why.


Sorry for the long winded post, but earlier today one of the LHS offered me a SW26 V3 boat at a ridiculously low price - less than anything I can find online including FleaBay.

I was waiting for an answer to a PM I sent the above referenced member regarding which prop to use with the MG24 upgraded to BL using the same power system as the SW26 BL has; I did not receive an answer.

So tomorrow I'm calling the LHS to order the SW26 V3. Since I already have a 1500Kv PB motor & the 45A ESC (with program card) that goes with it. I'm buying the brushed version & doing the BL conversion myself. I understand surface drive systems & how to prop them correctly, not so with steerable outdrives.

Mean while, I need to get my Rio EP BL boat put back together before the SW26 arrives. Bottom line is: I'm fixin to get real busy, which means no time for multiple answers to OSE posts.

Good luck in your endevors, I sincerely hope the above information gets you going in the right direction.

Happy boating :-))

whats the difference between the 2900kv motor this boat comes with and the 1500kv motor version 3 comes with? is one motor faster than the other? im trying to understand what the kv means pertaining to brushless electric motors.sorry for such a newb question,ive been an internal combustion fan my whole life...

[bigcam406]

JW and Yellowbird:thanks for your explanations.i finally have a better understanding of brushless ratings and how it pertains to prop sizing.very educational I must say.thanks again. and just for the record,i havn't purchased a v3 yet,but I was reading and found the specs between the older and new versions,so I was wondering why they made the change.J.W,keep us up to date on your brushless conversion,as im curious to see how it turns out.

[Svenster]

Svenster.

It sounds like it is clogged with sand and debris in the water nipples or in the jacket,
Try taking the motor out and sliding the jacket off and cleaning it out.
Can you post some pictures of what line you are talking about ?

Lenny. Thanks for the help. I took out the motor and removed the nipple from the motor that the cooling hose attaches. There was some black gung in it. Blew it out and now all works. Thanks again for the help.


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[lenny]

Good to hear.
Also try not to put the nipples in to deep.
I have seen some go in to deep and restrict the flow and sometimes it go's in and hits the motor can,
Also I would check the esc and rudder for some build up of debris and excess sealers from the factory on all rtr boats.

[J.W. Pepper]

...found the specs between the older and new versions,so I was wondering why they made the change...
Marketing

I have been very busy doing a lot research, basically what PB did was take the Impulse 26... http://www.proboatmodels.com/Product...ProdID=PRB4200 - changed the electronics, added gaudy graphics & called it a Shockwave 26. Check the SW26's (v3) parts listing, practically everything has "IM26" behind it.

Personally, I think the graphics on the IM26 are far nicer than the SW26, but they're also discontinued, so no converting a SW26v3 to an IM26. They also added a brushless option which was not available with the IM26.

Original Shockwave was a completely different boat than the current model; BL only, had a steerable outdrive & different hull design. The motor was the 2900Kv that also came with the Widow Maker, it was intended to run on 6 / 7 cell NiMH or 2S LiPo's. The "new" Shockwave's BL motor is an updated version of the 1500Kv motor from Miss Geico v1.

Specifics...
IM26 - lame motor, 30A ESC, same Spektrum radio as the IM31... http://www.proboatmodels.com/Product...RB8060#manuals - plus MR200 Rx.

SW26v3... Much improved (brushed) motor & 50A ESC - both are now made by Dynamite, downgraded radio system made by ECX.

SW26v3 BL... took the 1500Kv BL motor & ESC from MG29v1 / BJ26(V1 & V2) which are now made by Dynamite; and added upgraded Spektrum radio system - DX2E tx + MR200 Rx to make what can be considered the deluxe model. Sorta like a regular base model car vs. the nicer super sport model.

New BL ESC is now designated as "single battery 3S LiPo max" and has external switch for NiMH or LiPo battery type. Its predecessor was a dual battery design for 4S and programmable using this card... http://www.proboatmodels.com/Product...ProdID=PRB3311. I don't know if the new ESC is programmable.

I read YellowBirds' post on Kv ratings, for the most part his explanation is dead on. I agree with him on his comparison of the older 2900Kv vs. newer 1500Kv motors... I think it has different internals in terms of the magnet design. Based on my own experiences I can tell you that both the 1500Kv & it's 1800Kv big brother are some serious torque mysters due to they're 6-pole design.

As far as the RPM part... what he failed to take into consideration is: that the SW26v3 BL is designed to run up to a single 3S LiPo which will yield 16,650-rpm's not the 11,100-rpm value he quoted. PB did that for the reason he quoted - single battery lowers operational costs.

Why "only" a 1500Kv motor turning 16,650-rpm's - have you seen the PB promo vid?? That boat is movin along quite nicely.

Other reason(s) are: maybe that is all that the boats hull can handle, remember, that is a very torquee motor in a plastic hulled boat. PB says the boat will do 30+ mph outta the box; I'm assuming they mean with a 3S LiPo & the optional SS prop sharpened & balanced.

Bottom line is: PB took a discontinued model, updated the graphics, added a BL option & gave it a new name = practically zero $$ on development costs. The BL version gives price conscious consumers an economical alternative to fiberglass FE's both in terms of initial cost & operational cost (single battery).

Think of it as an entry level RTR FE, cheap enough that almost anybody can afford it, and fast enough that (first time) buyers won't get bored after their first trip to the pond / lake. For current boat owners, it's a great second boat to get for the wife / girlfriend / teenage kid.

If I get one, I will be trying the 1800Kv motor from my IM31 - curiosity killed the cat and satisfaction brought 'em back... cats have 9-lives.

That's my 2-cents - for what it's worth

JW and Yellowbird:thanks for your explanations.i finally have a better understanding of brushless ratings and how it pertains to prop sizing.very educational I must say.thanks again. and just for the record,i havn't purchased a v3 yet,but I was reading and found the specs between the older and new versions,so I was wondering why they made the change.J.W,keep us up to date on your brushless conversion,as im curious to see how it turns out.

[bigcam406]

thanks for the reply J.W.i already figured out the Impulse 26 and the Shockwave V3 were basically the same boat,just done up a bit.(I compare it to a base 69 Camaro to a Z28 lol).as far as the difference between the 2 motors,im still trying to figure out why they went with a lower kv motor instead of the original 2900.i have been doing a lot of reading,and I don't really see a difference between a higher rpm motor using a smaller prop,and a lower rpm motor that uses a larger prop(if the said voltage is the same).is there really that much a difference between the 2,or is the lower kv motor basically more efficient causing the increase in torque? it sounds to me like its a crapshoot really,unless there is a big difference between the 2.im guessing the higher kv with the same voltage and smaller prop would be a faster boat than vice a versa.i apologize for the questions,and keeping you away from your projects,just very curious.thanks again for your responses.

[J.W. Pepper]

...im still trying to figure out why they went with a lower kv motor instead of the original 2900...
2 reasons...
1. The 2900Kv motor was disco'ed a long time ago. They only used it in two models... The original Shockwave 26 and the Widow Maker... http://www.proboatmodels.com/Product...ProdID=PRB3900 - Goes back to what YellowBird said... "The 2900kv motor is designed for about 7.4 volts (2 cell lipo or 6 cell NiMh) battery and gives good power [2900kv x 7.4 volts = 21,460rpm nominal]..." that's what PB wanted for those two boats. The WM was never that popular and faded into obscurity rather quickly. Interesting to note that both boats used the same 1.34" x 2.06" prop now found on the MG24.

2. Check the end of my last post - I said "bottom line is: PB took a discontinued model, updated the graphics, added a BL option & gave it a new name = practically zero $$ on development costs." The original PB 1500Kv motor has been reborn as the Dynamite 1500Kv motor, so it's still a current production motor that's also used in the MG29v2.

...is there really that much a difference between the 2,or is the lower kv motor basically more efficient causing the increase in torque?...
YellowBird came up with as good an answer as any... "I think it has different internals in terms of the magnet design", sounds like a good answer to me. It was probably PB's first BLM, they learned from what-ever mistakes were made and came out with the 1500Kv & 1800Kv motors they use today. Like I said before, they're torque mysters, I have both of them. It is because of the 1500's greater torque that they can spin the larger prop. The 1800 spins that same size prop in the IM31 V1 & V2.

I covered the subject of props in post #100, so I will refer you back to this website... http://rcraceboats.webnode.gr/news/gas-prop-essentials/

Ok, bin feelin kinda crappy today, feel better now, so time to get to work...

Happy Boating to all

thanks for the reply J.W.i already figured out the Impulse 26 and the Shockwave V3 were basically the same boat,just done up a bit.(I compare it to a base 69 Camaro to a Z28 lol).as far as the difference between the 2 motors,im still trying to figure out why they went with a lower kv motor instead of the original 2900.i have been doing a lot of reading,and I don't really see a difference between a higher rpm motor using a smaller prop,and a lower rpm motor that uses a larger prop(if the said voltage is the same).is there really that much a difference between the 2,or is the lower kv motor basically more efficient causing the increase in torque? it sounds to me like its a crapshoot really,unless there is a big difference between the 2.im guessing the higher kv with the same voltage and smaller prop would be a faster boat than vice a versa.i apologize for the questions,and keeping you away from your projects,just very curious.thanks again for your responses.

[yellowbird]

Hi all

To clarify, the 2900kv motor is actually a 2-pole design while the 1500kv is a 6-pole design. The higher pole motors have higher torque.

I suspect the design change to 1500kv was done to simplify the number of motors to be carried in the factory/ spare parts business - by using the more powerful motor with a single 3S battery it keeps the costs of the charger, battery and speed controllers down for first-time shoppers. The bigger 1.6" x 2.5" prop simply suits the high-torque motor better than the old 1.34" x 2.06" of the original boat so that came out of the "parts bin" as well.

Also, the original 30A brushless speed controllers had a habit of catching fire if overloaded with bigger props or even stock, whereas the 45A ESC seems to be much more reliable.

- yellowbird

[bigcam406]

thanks for the replies and your time guys.

[J.W. Pepper]

@YellowBird - Thank you!! - I knew there had to be some reason for the high KV rating, the 2-pole design answered my question. There was no torque, so they made up for it with RPM's.

I already knew the PB 1500Kv & 1800Kv motors are 6-pole as are they're Dynamite replacements; as well as both AQ's boat motors - 1800Kv MC, SVR, Revolt and 2030Kv for the UL-1.

Post #50 in this thread.... https://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/...ng-boats/page2 - Cheif stated the new Dynamite motors are the same as the old PB motors and quoted a very knowledgable source.


@Bigcam406 - I have a SW26 brushed on the way, due next Tues. If this oppressive heat wave will ever let up (me & the porcelain god were talking into the wee hours this morning cuz of it), I'll try to get the maiden run in by the weekend. First run is going to be stock out of the box except for the normal pre-run maintenance & a replacement motor coupler. I'm not expecting anything really exciting, just want to make sure all the stock parts work correctly before I dive in and start modding stuff.

After that, Im going with the 1800Kv IM31 motor with a SK90A ESC; will try several different props and see what happens. While I was still trying to decide between the MG24 & SW26, I was trying to figure out what prop size I would use with the MG24 upgraded to BL. And finally found the picture that tells a 1000 words... http://www.ebay.com/itm/VXP-FAST-M43...item4854e472f7 - side-by-side comparison of the Octura "M" and "X" style props.

Lenny's been telling me to run a 3-blade prop on my Rio to solve the torque roll issue. Every time I do, torque roll goes away and so does top end speed. After seeing that pic, I'm whacking the ears off one of my x436/3's in case I have torque roll issues with SW26 after upgrading to BL. I don't care, it's a $5 Venom plastic prop I bought for testing purposes, so fine I'll test with it.

If the 1800Kv still proves to be to much for it; fine I'll go back to my original plan of running the 1500Kv motor I got out of the swap shop recently. Jan doesn't CNC'ed x640's anymore and I recently read some rather discouraging info on the subject of pre-done S&B props, so not sure what I'll do bout a prop. Cross that bridge when I get to it.

Hi all

To clarify, the 2900kv motor is actually a 2-pole design while the 1500kv is a 6-pole design. The higher pole motors have higher torque.

I suspect the design change to 1500kv was done to simplify the number of motors to be carried in the factory/ spare parts business - by using the more powerful motor with a single 3S battery it keeps the costs of the charger, battery and speed controllers down for first-time shoppers. The bigger 1.6" x 2.5" prop simply suits the high-torque motor better than the old 1.34" x 2.06" of the original boat so that came out of the "parts bin" as well.

Also, the original 30A brushless speed controllers had a habit of catching fire if overloaded with bigger props or even stock, whereas the 45A ESC seems to be much more reliable.

- yellowbird

[bigcam406]

sorry your not feeling well,J.W. hope your feeling better soon.keep us posted on your results.

[J.W. Pepper]

So long as I stay inside I'm fine. I was checking out Accuweather.com the other day... normal temps for this area at this time of year are mid to high 80's.

This year it's been very high 90's with real-feel's in the 100's, some days temps are just south of 110°. WAAAYYYY too much for this just shy of 60-year old man.

I don't think I'm going to get much boating done this year. Got a new body for my Slash, need to get the RPM front bumper so it will fit correctly. I can run it around my apartments after the sun goes down till dark, around 9-ish.

Also finally got my Blade Tandem rescue heli re-assembled, crashed it bad last summer. Had the parts, just needed to get off my a$$ and work on getting everything put back together. Still have some fine tuning to do to make it fly better. Got a new body & light harness, just have to figure out which lights go where so I can put it on.

sorry your not feeling well,J.W. hope your feeling better soon.keep us posted on your results.

[Boat_guy]

The 1.6" x 2.5" prop looks like this... 1.60"(40.64mm) x 1.5625"(39.6875mm) pitch - for a total pitch of: 1.6 x 1.5625"= 2.50"(63.5mm). It's very close in size to the Octura x640 - 1.5748"(40mm) diameter x 1.6"(40.64mm) pitch - for a total of 1.5748" x 1.6" = 2.51968"(63.9999mm).

Sup guys! I'm actually waiting for my Pro Boat Shockwave 26 BL to arrive sometime next week. I have been reading about props and noticed that a lot of Pro Boat Shockwave 26 BL owners run the x435 prop.

Based on the quote above, has anyone actually tried the Octura x640 prop on their Pro Boat Shockwave 26 BL? I have not read or seen videos of anybody with a Pro Boat Shockwave 26 BL that runs the Octura x640 prop. Would there be heat issues? ESC getting toasted?

Thanks in advance!

[bigcam406]

the x435 prop mentioned previous is suitable for the shockwave v2 which comes equipped with a 2900kv motor.the v3 comes with a 1500kv motor,which has been explained to me as having much more torque,which can spin a larger prop with no issues.the 640 you mentioned has similar specs as the stock prop which comes with the v3.i don't think there would be a problem using it,though,maybe others could chime in,as im no expert on props,but the specs look similar to stock.

[Boat_guy]

the x435 prop mentioned previous is suitable for the shockwave v2 which comes equipped with a 2900kv motor.the v3 comes with a 1500kv motor,which has been explained to me as having much more torque,which can spin a larger prop with no issues.the 640 you mentioned has similar specs as the stock prop which comes with the v3.i don't think there would be a problem using it,though,maybe others could chime in,as im no expert on props,but the specs look similar to stock.

The V3 has more torque and it definitely could spin a larger prop. Although the x640 has similar specs to the the stock prop, the V3 it may not be able handle that prop due to it's weight (Being metal) and this may cause issues. That's the reason why I asked if anyone has any experience with that particular prop. I just want to make sure that the $39.99 for the x640 prop is worth the investment.

Thanks for the input btw.

[ray schrauwen]

With the PB using the 1500kv geico motor, there is no problem turning a x640 prop or an x642 for that matter but, start small.

[lenny]

What amp is the stock esc 45a ?
If it was me I would try and find a good used x440/3 prop and see how it runs.

The V3 has more torque and it definitely could spin a larger prop. Although the x640 has similar specs to the the stock prop, the V3 it may not be able handle that prop due to it's weight (Being metal) and this may cause issues. That's the reason why I asked if anyone has any experience with that particular prop. I just want to make sure that the $39.99 for the x640 prop is worth the investment.

Thanks for the input btw.

[yellowbird]

The stock prop is a plastic 1.6" x 2.5". ProBoat make a stainless steel upgrade/ replacement for this prop for $12 - part number PRB4019. I's suggest this as a budget upgrade before spending lots of cash on something from Octura - it will give better performance and be less likely to break a blade than the original plastic prop.

-yellowbird

[Boat_guy]

With the PB using the 1500kv geico motor, there is no problem turning a x640 prop or an x642 for that matter but, start small.

With what you said, I might try the x640.

Thanks!

What amp is the stock esc 45a ?
If it was me I would try and find a good used x440/3 prop and see how it runs.

The stock esc = 45 amps. Will that help in spinning a heavier prop? Or does the motor determine this ability to spin props?

You made my choice harder man. Lol! Now, i have to look into the prop that you just mentioned.

The stock prop is a plastic 1.6" x 2.5". ProBoat make a stainless steel upgrade/ replacement for this prop for $12 - part number PRB4019. I's suggest this as a budget upgrade before spending lots of cash on something from Octura - it will give better performance and be less likely to break a blade than the original plastic prop.

-yellowbird

I actually saw that prop on pro boats website. Your right btw. I may have to try this prop first before going for the octura. Being $12, and as stated on the website, this prop still needs to be balanced, shaved, and polished.

[bigcam406]

also remember,a balanced and sharpened prop will produce less stress on the running gear than an unbalanced/non sharpened one.it will be lighter as well.the easier it cuts through the water,the better.i'd go with the b/s 640.