Team FEAR (south east Virginia)

[thegreat1]

i don't know where lake fear is lol. could someone fill me in. also what time?

[egneg]

Lake Fear (formally Loc Fembot) is at the corner of London Bridge Rd and Ships Corner in Va bch. Time to be determined but somewhere around the noon to 1 pm time frame

[runzwithsizorz]

Can't make it today, wife has made plans for me already. Is this the pond next to the Virginia beach Industries?

[egneg]

We will meet at the 7-11 at 2pm. Here is a link and a picture for Jeremy. Sorry you cant make it Runz, maybe next time. I will call Danny to check to see if he is still coming and Ben to see if he can make it.

http://www.mapquest.com/listings/7-E...ch_VA_21803884

[Chilli]

How did the mono run today Chuck?

[egneg]

How did the mono run today Chuck?

It ran much better although I stripped the servo horn so I think I will have to get a metal one. I put on a detongued X642 today and moved the batts a bit back (I think I could move them back some more) and it ran about 40 mph, does this sound about right for running with the nitro boats?

P.S. Danny shot some video so when I get it I will post it.

[Chilli]

It's hard to tell what speed the nitro guys will ber running at. There is a huge span on performance depending on how good a tuner the boat owner is. 40 mph is pretty slow for a 642 with your motor, but if I remember correctly Lake Fear is not that big so not alot of room to wind that sucker out. I had the Titan running upper 40's with a 640. When you get together with the OD club, you'll able to run with the B-mono guys and get a good sense of where you need to be. If I get to run with any B's at test n' tune, I'll let you know what kind of speeds will be competitive.

[Meniscus]

Egneg, I got your call, but got involved with a combined birthday party for my wife where the whole family was there.

I hate missing meetings!!!

[Meniscus]

OK, ran my first boat in quite some time...

Mini Sea Drifter on 3s FP 2100mah, X-Power 2618kv?, x632, Velocity 35A ESC, etc. etc.

She planed out great, nice tight rooster tail, and did roughly 38mph. She would have done more if I had the room to wind her up. It ran very stable and had no issue going over the wake upwards of 1 1/4". It still needs a turn fin. I think I gave the one I was going to use to Danny D. with the Oberto.

[Diegoboy]

Sweet! Wish I could have been there...

[Meniscus]

Yeah, it's a shame when work gets in the way! Sorry Diego.

Just a note guys, hire Diego to conformal coat your ESC's and receivers. Mine were still working even with over a half a cup of water in the hull. They had to have been completely submerged, of course not by choice. Great job Diego!!!

[Meniscus]

OK, I've been looking heavily at the IMPBA rules regarding FE.

My goal is to find a class that will allow smaller models, say up to 19-21" or less depending on other's input, to compete in a race or SAWS environment for the main purpose of having an inexpensive class for new boaters to enjoy the events. Here's my issue, let's say I wanted to recruit new members to run FE with us in a race or SAWS competition. Under the rules, if let's say we decided to run riggers up to 19-21" or smaller, the smallest class is N which has a rigger length limit of 60"!!!

So what does that mean? Realistically, I could run a 32-34" rigger on 2s2p at 10,000mah. That's all well and good, but it misses the main purpose for a smaller class: allow new boaters to get into the hobby without spending upwards of $1,000.

Now, I know that D.Smock runs a special local club class that uses Vac-u-pickles. Again, the IMPBA rules don't translate to the smaller sizes for hydros. Even in the "N" class, it's only limited to 27", which is still giant compared to these small models.

So where does this leave us? No class to run micro or minis that have a cost of $200-250 all new components and new boaters have to come up with at least $500+ to be able to enter a competitive race. The spec racing was a good idea, but now with motors costing as much as 1/5 the cost of a spec motor, it seems silly not to allow participants to use them in some sort of way.

Meanwhile, in IMPBA we have N, P, Q, S, T = 5 times Mono, Tunnel, OB Tunnel, Hydro, Rigger, Sport Hydro = 6. That's 30 classes before you consider spec or other sub-classes. What club has the capacity to have enough boats to meet everyone's desires for the class they want to run?

Why can't we have at least one class that is limited in length and allow, let's say, 2-3s lipos???

The size of the model will limit the capacities, motor, props, etc. It will allow those folks who don't have the expendable income to enjoy competitive racing on a budget.

At this point, we all realize that no new boater will get into the hobby and want to go racing if they have to outlay so much money. After all, we're talking about a price that's equivelant to a used passenger car!

Please someone weigh in here and tell me how we can enjoy smaller models that still go 40 to 60+ mph with IMPBA! If we had NAMBA here, maybe it would be better, but I don't know whether it would or not. Virginia is NAMBA District 1 which includes New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, etc. We'd have to drive 10 hours to those events. Heck, we might as well drive to D.Smock's club in Florida for that matter.

Disclaimer: I'm all for doing some local racing. I'm trying to fit into IMPBA, but the cost is beyond what I can manage. In supporting these efforts, I'm considering putting models almost half the size of others just so I can enjoy the water. What motivation does any new boater have to come and participate in a race? OK, Joe Shmo can run his SV27, but he can't change the motor or the ESC? I hope that everyone understands I'm not bitter, but merely trying to make this racing happen where new boaters can participate without going broke or losing interest.

I'm just saying, simplified length classes with unlimited equipment may serve for better competition and lower cost. After all, if I'm significantly faster than the next guy, I'm still going to be asked to "tune it down". So what's the point?

For Example Only:

A = up to 16"
B = up to 19"
C = up to 23.5"
D = up to 27"
E = up to 36"
F = 36" and above

This could be simplified further, but you'd have the choice of Mono or Hydro/Rigger. That only equals 12 classes. Add 2 classes for spec and be done with it.

Thoughts? I'd like to hear input from new boaters as well as seasoned racers.

This is meant to be a friendly conversation about the future of FE racing with these organizations. No animosity is intended or welcome.

[Diegoboy]

Bravo Meniscus. I too wish to run smaler boats because my pockets are honestly too shallow to run near the 30" range. My renegade, micro kat, offshore warrior, and the Rigged confusion would be great to race with.

[egneg]

NAMBA seems to be ahead of the game compared to the IMPBA. Talking to the guys at ODMBA this past weekend I have found that they realize that FE is the future (which is evident from the problems they have encountered trying to find a new location to run) and they are trying to incorporate the transition without throwing away the investment they have made. They pull up with trailers that have $20,000 and up worth of boats that they have accumulated over the years. It will take time but it will happen!

[Diegoboy]

If it were me that invested that kind of money in a dying technology, I'd...


SELL SELL SELL while I still could, then buy the new technology.

I guess that just makes too much sense to work.

[egneg]

If it were me that invested that kind of money in a dying technology, I'd...


SELL SELL SELL while I still could, then buy the new technology.

I guess that just makes too much sense to work.

If you had that kind of money invested ... what would you do knowing that you could not get back half of what you spent?

I would run what I had and fight any change!

[Diegoboy]

My mind is making a comparison to the stock market. If the value is falling, SELL while you can still get something.

[Chilli]

Good stuff Ben. Most of the guys currently racing in this hobby have been doing this for a long time. The clubs and sanctioning bodies have no choice but to cater to their dues paying members. If there is one thing I have learned over the past year and a half, it's that no one is going to listen to you if your on the outside. Thats why I decided to join the IMPBA and my local club. D12 has a dozen or so classes that the district clubs are required to run at district races. However, the host club is not limited to running just these classes and I think it would be fair to say that most D12 clubs will race any class that makes the three boat minimum. They want you to come to their races. Clubs and districts are also not restricted to running IMPBA classes. They can make classes up to suit the needs of its members. D12 runs a Stock Gas class with our own set of rules.

You guys in SE Virginia are lucky because you have probably the most active club in the district. It's the only club that runs it's own club race series and the club president is running a P-spec tunnel for the first time. Right now the current classes available are not what you would consider optimal, but you do fit in a class. The "N" class allows boats under 27" with 2S power. Any motor you want and any speed controller. Thats a start. My only option last year was novice, so thats what my and my son ran. If I were in your shoes and wanted to make some changes, I would join ODMBA and get out there with Danny and Chuck. Show the guys what the smaller boats can do and that your as serious about the hobby as they are. Then ask them to include a N class in the district race in August. I'm sure Kent would bring one of his smaller boats down to the district race if he decided to come down. The bottom line is the oportuninty is there, but no one is going to give it to us. We have to make it happen.

PS- Doug lives in Georgia, not Florida

[Meniscus]

...PS- Doug lives in Georgia, not Florida

LMAO! I did get that one wrong!!! When I first read about Doug I thought he was in Florida. I had a relapse while posting at work.

My point is, we can't really generate the interest to keep members coming and although I'd like, I can't make all the races, the same as others of you I'm sure. That being said, I was trying to think of way to not only generate interest in FE, but to sustain the growth. I certainly don't want to put forth the effort but not have anyone everyone else come into the club. At least that's what I was thinking.

I think that between all of us, we represent and can relate to the various age groups. Now we have to make it easier and get some cheaper stuff running if we want more people.

If we had a simple small rigger cut for cheap, newbies or even some of the nitro/gas guys could run one we had available for them and build one to run next time. We'd have enough boats so that we could always meet a minimum, bridge the gap between the combustion guys and FE, meanwhile a newbie can have some fun too, even if they don't run that day.

Lasercut Rigger = $35-40 ea. (or vac-u-pickles if you guys want, although a rigger may be easier to drive without flipping if the COG is forward)
Cheap Radio = $35-40 ea.
ESC = $25
Motor = $20 outrunner
H/W = $30 if we manage it right, no water pickup.
Batts = $25 or borrowed from ours => yes the collective "we" says Tanto.
Plastic Prop = $5
Glue = $5

Total = $180 to $190 for a rigger that will do 40 to 45mph, 35 to 40mph in rough water.

[Doug Smock]

Well build them, run them, and see if there are any takers!!!!!
Honestly though, that class would go nowhere in a hurry here. The growth is in the P-Limited classes. Sport Hydro, O/B Tunnel and Hydro.
Good luck!!!!
Doug

[Meniscus]

What class do you run the vac-u-pickles in? Spec with spec motors?

[Doug Smock]

Yes sir, the Pickles run in P-Limited Sport Hydro. (the new LSH)

Doug

[Chris Harris]

OK, I've been looking heavily at the IMPBA rules regarding FE.

My goal is to find a class that will allow smaller models, say up to 19-21" or less depending on other's input, to compete in a race or SAWS environment for the main purpose of having an inexpensive class for new boaters to enjoy the events. Here's my issue, let's say I wanted to recruit new members to run FE with us in a race or SAWS competition. Under the rules, if let's say we decided to run riggers up to 19-21" or smaller, the smallest class is N which has a rigger length limit of 60"!!!

So what does that mean? Realistically, I could run a 32-34" rigger on 2s2p at 10,000mah. That's all well and good, but it misses the main purpose for a smaller class: allow new boaters to get into the hobby without spending upwards of $1,000.

The above is the exact reason why we are trying to get smaller, cheaper classes back into IMPBA. (See 1-year trial rules for "Stock" and "Superstock" classes in the March Rooster Tale) These would be legal IMPBA classes that you could show up to any time trial with and run for a record. Oval or SAW. Please VOTE YES to these classes when the ballots come out later this year.

With that said the big growth movement in organized oval racing is in the P-Limited classes. These are not official IMPBA or NAMBA classes. In my opinion they've proven to wildly successful with out being recongnized classes. The fact is they are what the majority of clubs that have an oval racing program are running. So you could go just about anywhere and have boats that fit the classes they are running. Just because IMPBA or NAMBA offer 30+ classes doesn't mean you have to offer all of them at a race. Race the classes that have the most interest. I don't think having that many classes is a bad thing. It provides something for everyone at time trial events which have been very well supported in IMPBA in the last 5 years.

Chris

[Diegoboy]

Well build them, run them, and see if there are any takers!!!!!
Honestly though, that class would go nowhere in a hurry here. The growth is in the P-Limited classes. Sport Hydro, O/B Tunnel and Hydro.
Good luck!!!!
Doug

Growth for existing members converting, and the very few new members with deep pockets. We're trying to get something together for the common average joe with minimal to average sized pockets that would like to run boats but are too intimidated by the cost.

[Doug Smock]

Growth for existing members converting, and the very few new members with deep pockets. We're trying to get something together for the common average joe with minimal to average sized pockets that would like to run boats but are too intimidated by the cost.

I understand Danny. That's why I said build them, run them, and see if there are any takers.

I can't imagine a nitro or gas guy dipping his feet in FE with a boat that size and speed. On the big course they will be like watching paint dry IMO. Back to the "bathtub toy" thing we used to hear from them. If you want to put some hooks in those guys hand them a P-Limited Hydro.
New boaters, send them to the LHS to pick up a UL-1.

I'm not knocking the idea guys, just trying to be realistic. Take this year, go to the races and talk to people.
Good luck!!!!
Doug

[Diegoboy]

Doug, Would you or anyone else consider THIS as watching paint dry??

...or THIS for that matter?

[Doug Smock]

Danny build them and run then on the 1/6th mile oval. See how much interest there is in them. Convince the club that that is where the growth is going to be. Who knows??

I was asked to give some input on this thread based on my experience racing FEs with our IC counterparts and I have done so. Sorry I wasn't much help.
I wish you guys the best of luck.
Doug

[Diegoboy]

Doug,
Your input and experience are always more than welcome. It just saddens me that electrics are considered inferior bt the IC masses, and to top it off, or add insult to injury, FE supporters consider mini's as inferior. My apologies if my frustration came through and offended you in any way.
Build'em? I have.
Run'em? Not sure if they'll allow us to.

That's my whole point, Will we be allowed to run'em in the first place??

[Doug Smock]

Doug,
Your input and experience are always more than welcome. It just saddens me that electrics are considered inferior bt the IC masses, and to top it off, or add insult to injury, FE supporters consider mini's as inferior. My apologies if my frustration came through and offended you in any way.
Build'em? I have.
Run'em? Not sure if they'll allow us to.

That's my whole point, Will we be allowed to run'em in the first place??

I'm not offended Danny. I'm as hard headed as you are.
FEs have come a long way and are opening the eyes of the IC guys. We have several IC guys running P-Limited boats.
Take them to the pond, see what happens.

Doug

[Meniscus]

Doug, I know we all appreciate your input and it helps to provide another approach to consider.

I stopped in our LHS to pickup a prop and ended up talking to a few boat guys I've never seen before. That being said, Chuck has started a buzz with the Old Dominion guys regarding FE. They were excited to find out I was an FE guy and instantly wanted to tell me all about this guy who came and practiced with them. Great job Chuck!!!

During the discussion, they indicated that they were interested in running an FE boat, but don't know where exactly to start. As you can imagine, these guys are in love with their Nitro and Gas engines and don't readily justify the high cost of FE in larger sizes. After this unprompted input, I shared the things we can do with some smaller models and allowing cheaper motors and ESC's. They indicated that it made perfect sense.

So, I'm thinking that if we takes Doug's advice and see what we can do this year, we may be able to stage a small class with rules that encourage low cost, fast paced racing. At the same time, the nitro and gas guys don't have to feel threatened by the same speeds and maybe they'll join us.

=> I like positive thinking.