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Thread: My Rio EP Brushless conversion

  1. #1
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    Default My Rio EP Brushless conversion

    So, my parts for the conversion of my Rio EP have finally started arriving. I have decided to document my progress here and see how things go.

    A little background information:
    I already have a brushless Mini Rio that I got a kit for and it works great and is fast but because it is so small, it gets unstable at higher speeds. So, of course I wanted something bigger and better. After some research I found the Rio EP with certain features I really liked; i.e. dual rudders with breakaway, stabilizers, a waterproof box and it is light.

    My friend who also really liked my Mini Rio wanted a boat of his own but wasn't wanting to spend quite as much as I am for one so we found an Arrow Wind on eBay that others had converted to a brushless boat. This thread will document both boats progress in the conversion.

    So, now onto the stats!!

    Here is the Arrow Wind on eBay and a you tube video of a brushless version:
    Arrow Wind

    Brushless Version


    Now, Here are the motor and ESC that I ordered for both boats:

    Motor

    ESC

    Battery

    So, far the ESC is here but the motor and batteries are going to be here today!

    Next Update: PICTURES!!

  2. #2
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    Thanks for the updates. Keep them coming.

    Reaper.

  3. #3
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    Cool that's the motor i should have got for my 24" cat I got a 3300KV and it's to slow the motor you show 3600KV if you read peoples comments they all say it works great on 2S and that's what i was after!
    Keep us posted!
    :p What go faster that's what I like to do!
    Custom RC radio steering grips
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  4. #4
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    Found this looks like the same motor but comes with a boat ESC and it's cheap.
    It's a little cheaper on there site also.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Marine-3600Kv-Br...item56363e7abc
    :p What go faster that's what I like to do!
    Custom RC radio steering grips
    WWW.PPRSLOTS.COM

  5. #5
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    Here are two pictures of each boat stripped down.

    I couldn't get that battery holder off the boat so I cut it in half to get the all the cords out without damaging them. It isn't the nicest looking thing but I'm going to put it back together with a little tape, no big deal.

    I managed to get all the components out of the container and am waterproofing my ESC at the moment. I can't put the ESC totally together yet because I'm waiting for a heat sink watercooling plate to come in the mail first. But it shouldn't be too much longer before I'm up and running!
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #6
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    Hyrule how are you going to use that airplane esc with your boat? Do you use a stix radio or an airplane radio. And last but not least how are you going to waterproof your esc?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by hyrulejedi86 View Post
    Here are two pictures of each boat stripped down.

    I couldn't get that battery holder off the boat so I cut it in half to get the all the cords out without damaging them. It isn't the nicest looking thing but I'm going to put it back together with a little tape, no big deal.

    I managed to get all the components out of the container and am waterproofing my ESC at the moment. I can't put the ESC totally together yet because I'm waiting for a heat sink watercooling plate to come in the mail first. But it shouldn't be too much longer before I'm up and running!
    Looks good ? for you on your 3600KV motors when you turn the motor shaft by hand does it turn easy and smooth or does it have a strong pop effect from the magnet?
    THANKS
    :p What go faster that's what I like to do!
    Custom RC radio steering grips
    WWW.PPRSLOTS.COM

  8. #8
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    It's nice and smooth.

    Does anyone have a turnigy accucel-6?
    I am plugging in one of my lipos and setting the amperage and the number of cells right but it keeps saying "connection break" but I am only plugging in the charging plug and it's in all the way. I've tried this on 4 different LiPo batteries all 3s but it keeps saying the same thing. I have gotten the balence charge to work on 2 of them but that's it. Any suggestions>

  9. #9
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    Hyrule I'll answer your question even though you did not answer the question I asked you early. I have the same charger. You have to plug the balance plug into the charger and the charge leads to the battery.

    Reaper

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by hyrulejedi86 View Post
    It's nice and smooth.

    Does anyone have a turnigy accucel-6?
    I am plugging in one of my lipos and setting the amperage and the number of cells right but it keeps saying "connection break" but I am only plugging in the charging plug and it's in all the way. I've tried this on 4 different LiPo batteries all 3s but it keeps saying the same thing. I have gotten the balence charge to work on 2 of them but that's it. Any suggestions>
    Hi you need to use the balance taps...also on the motor you are telling me you can spin the motors shaft and it turns easy without any force? a good motor should feel like a magnet pole making the shaft hard to turn feeling like how a brushed motor does?...does it feel like a brushed motor when turning the shaft by hand? I was thinking of getting one but if the motor rotor shaft spins very easy and feels like it has no pop from magnets i don't think it will be a good motor probably no tork?
    :p What go faster that's what I like to do!
    Custom RC radio steering grips
    WWW.PPRSLOTS.COM

  11. #11
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    Sorry soulreaper I didn't see that post. I am using a clear drying caulk on the small openings on the end of the ESC, it is waterproof and is good to use in higher temperatures. Also, I don't have any special radio for that ESC, I was under the impression that it would work with any receiver, since the manufactueres description on the manual says "it is fully compatible with all transmitters currently on the market"

    SweetZ28 I checked the motor again, and it does catch when you spin it I can feel the bumps when the magnets line up. I guess I didn't really spin it enough the frist time, I thought I did when I got it but I guess not. So, basically, I can feel the pop from the magnets, it's not hard to spin but I can feel it.

    Also, I did figure out the turnigy thing already, I connected the leads and it works fine now. Thanks for that input.

    P.S. I'm sure you can tell from my posts but this is my first real brushless conversion of anything, so that's why I'm sort of shall we say "discovering" these things as I go along, despite lots of research.
    Last edited by hyrulejedi86; 10-22-2009 at 01:42 PM.

  12. #12
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    Hyrule thanks for the response. I hope your charger works for you now. Thanks for the info on waterproofing. Please check to make sure that esc you have will work with a Pistol grip radio if that is what you intend on using.

    Reaper.

  13. #13
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    So, far things are okay, I have 2 problems at the moment. First is indeed the ESC and receiver, the motor runs when the receiver is in the neutral position and stops when I pull the trigger back. Weird! But like I said the manufacturer says it is compatible with ALL transmitters on the market so there is no reason to suggest it won'y work. I sent them an email asking about this problem and am awaiting a response.

    My second problem maybe one of you can help me out with. I got 5 packs to charge successfully with the accucel-6 but 2 are still getting that same error. I don't know what to do, one battery is new and came in the mail yesterday the other one I have used once or twice and now it also gives me that error.

    I have both the plugs plugged into the charger like what was suggested earlier and that message still appears. I did replace the stock plug with a deans connector but if it worked earlier then I can't see why it wouldn't work now.
    The two packs that don't work are Turnigy 1300mAh and Turnigy 3000mAh 3s LiPos.

  14. #14
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    Hi on your Radio make sure throttle trim is in the center and also try reversing the throttle with the throttle reversing switch ...If this don't work try putting your throttle trimm to full one way and tring it again and if that don't work try putting the throttle trim all the way the oposit way and try again...for some reason i have to do this on one of my boats.

    Also about the battery maybe try cleaning the power balance tapes contacts.
    :p What go faster that's what I like to do!
    Custom RC radio steering grips
    WWW.PPRSLOTS.COM

  15. #15
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    Hmmm, Those are good ideas! I'll give them a try and see how it goes, Thanks!!

  16. #16
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    Hyrule you might have to order "Mikes Pistix" for your esc. It allows an airplane esc to work with a pistol grip radio. If your charger wont charge two of your batteries it has to be because there is a bad connection at one of your connectors on the battery side. Or the batteries might be bad even though one is new. The charger you have works very well, I have never had a problem with mine.

    Reaper

  17. #17
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    thank you for the suggestions. I looked at Mikes Pistix but its out of stock right now and Im not sure how to install it. Would you just plug the three prong end on the pistix into the female plug of the esc and the other end of the pistix into the reciever? Thats how it looks like it would work anyway. Im waiting on tech support where I got it to reply and see what they say before I order anything.

    As for my battery and charger I figured the battery was the problem, Im going to resolder the deans connectors and see if that helps. The new battery that I got has a very large wire for the discharge leads and are hard to solder to the deans connectors. Do you have any suggestions for soldering these big wires securely to the deans?

    Thanks

  18. #18
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    PS im waiting on 2 more things in the mail before I can complete the project. The ESC cooling plate and the motor coupler.

    Soon hopefully!

  19. #19
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    Hyrule where did you try and find the Pistix? Was it with OSE because they are in fact out of stock but there is another place that has them in stock. I know because I ordered mine from there. I'm not sure if its okay for me to post that place but here it is. OSE please dont band me from the forum I'm just trying to help a forum brother. Mikes subworks has them in stock and he shipped right away. You will have to place your order over the phone. Hope this helps you.

    Reaper.

  20. #20
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    Thanks I will definatly use them if I determine that i need it.

  21. #21
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    Okay, so things have been busy around here with exams and such at school and not to metion all the parts have been arriving slowly. I'm still waiting for the motor coupler for the arrow wind. I modified the coupler that came with the Rio Ep to fit my new motor shaft and it works well.

    My ESCs are working totally fine now, and are working as planned. I took it out today to get a test run for the first time but didn't have time to take a video because I flipped it while getting the feel of this boat and it was getting dark. Unfortunatly, I hadn't full sealed the box for the servo and receiver yet so water got in when it filpped and shorted the receiver out. No big deal though because I have an extra just in case.

    I did find I have a problem, the motor has too much torque and it moves in it's cradle in the boat so I need a motor holder that will screw into the front of the motor itself.

    My second problem was the boat started turning right at near full speed but I didn't have time to try and adjust the rudder and see if it helps. Next time I will do that but after the flip was recovered it was dark and there wasn't time to continue.

    Thirdly, I need a new motor coupler, the one's I ordered haven't gotten here and it's been 2 weeks I'm in the process of talking to the people I ordered it from but I have since decided I want a different kind of coupler than the one I ordered. The one I ordered was just like the one that came with the Rio EP to start with but I am thinking I would rather have one that is the design of this one:
    http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pro...oct-ocfhe4mm13

    But I need a 4mm shaft hole and a 2mm flex shaft hole ( the one that screws in).

    Can anyone suggest a coupler for the motor and for a motor mount?

    Here also, is a picture but without the battery or receiver put in.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  22. #22
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    So,everything is here, installed and I am ready to run!!! Hopefully I will be able to take a run out to the Lake sometime this week, perhaps monday or wednesday, and video the Rio EP. I'm excited to try it because both the boats are finished. I will post videos and pictures later once I make a run with them.

    I did solve my problem with the motor torque and spinning itself around in it's cradle. I cut a piece of the rubber lid openers we have up to fit around the motor and screwed the brace back in place. It fit perfectly and the motor definetly isn't going anywhere!

    Till Next time!

  23. #23
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    Video please!!

  24. #24
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    OKAY!!!! So, I've got a video here of the Rio EP running at the Lake.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vebxMsSYdx8

    Check it out and see what you think. I have noticed a couple things and am hoping for some suggestions on these issues:

    1) I am noticing that it isn't getting on plane as quickly as I would like. I am using a 34mm prop. I was thinking about trying a smaller one but I don't know if that will get on plane sooner or go faster or what. It is a 31mm prop I'm thinking about. I also, thought about trying the stock prop just to see what happens.

    2) If I move the battery from the back where it was designed to go to behind the motor do you think that will help even out the weight and help it get on plane faster?

    3) I was having some serious problems with it rotaing to the right in the water at higher speeds but the metal fins solved that problem.

    4) If you don't like the props I suggested above can someone supply me with a link of one or two that should work well?\

    Hope the video looks good!

  25. #25
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    Definately moved the battery back. It'll jump on plane waaaay faster. Try that first, then diff. props. Do not run the stock prop. It'll be way too big.

  26. #26
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    Ok, so I took it out again today and did a little experimenting with props.

    First I tried a smaller prop I had, 31mm, and it was worse than the 34. So, I tried the only other prop I had, the stock prop. It worked AMAZINGLY, it picked up on plane, immediatly, got a great top speed and was overall very good.

    Now, I just have to find a better prop of the same type because the stock is made of a cheap plastic.

    Here is the video:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AR8PRtPw-Bc

    Sorry about the shakyness. I'm going to go again tomorrow as long as it doesn't rain and I'll take a video with my cheap HD camera and hopefully from a little father away.
    Till then, feel free to make suggestions, and incase anyone is wondering, the motor and ESC didnt get overly warm using that prop.

  27. #27
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    Looks good...
    I would try a 40mm and see how that goes..
    how were your temps with the stock 42mm prop?
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  28. #28
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    I have a 31.5mm prop on my brushless apache and it's pretty fast on 3s but my battery runs a little hot I am going to try a little smaller prop ....with your 3600kv with those props you are using don't your battery get hot?

    Mine would probly not get as hot but i ran all the way down to lipo cut off.
    see my video
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sibSxqJVlUc
    Z28
    :p What go faster that's what I like to do!
    Custom RC radio steering grips
    WWW.PPRSLOTS.COM

  29. #29
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    My temps were fine, battery wasn't hot at all but the motor and ESC got warm not so hot I couldn't touch them and hold my fingers there. I wouldn't mind going down a size but I tried the 31 and 34mm props from Hobbycity and they just won't push it on plane or get much speed. Can you guys give me a link to a couple of smaller props with higher pitches. maybe even a 3 blade prop that would work. I don't want to burn anything out but I want speed!!

    I wouldn't mind a smaller prop but the one's I have just dont cut it right now.

  30. #30
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    Oh, P.S. W/o the water cooling then they would get quite hot but since I have water cooling hooked up it keeps them much cooler.

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