Yep. That is why you normally put a heat sink on the hot side. Like in drink coolers, small refrigerators, CPU coolers, etc.Originally Posted by 6S HYDRO
Moderator
Yep. That is why you normally put a heat sink on the hot side. Like in drink coolers, small refrigerators, CPU coolers, etc.
Government Moto:
"Why fix it? Blame someone else for breaking it."
Senior Member
you're right mr. wilson i didn't think of that...
Fast Electric Addict!
Well here is a cheap and easy pump.
58mm x 33 1.3 amp at 6v
http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/...pner_1951.html
Might have to try one of these to see how well it does for flow.
Senior Member
that's a very nice gear pump.
Fast Electric Addict!
wow this thread died!Did the ideas work?
Fast Electric Addict!
Yes and very well, I might add. The cold water was the best. Questech did the hard work on this and shows many results in another thread you should e able to search. Cooling temps were way down.
When we need it the most is in the summer when it is 85-90 degreee water.
I think the biggest key is making sure all fets are in contact with the plate and the copper is much better than alum plate. But Alum is okay.
I have another cooler for the motor I am planning and will show it soon. Both of these can use the same pack to run the pump and the part I am trying to develop now.
Senior Member
Thnaks Jeff but you were a big contributor with lots of great suggestions. Here is the link:
https://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/...ad.php?t=10810
Here is a quick summary:
1. ESC's are an expensive but weak link in FE boats
2. The failure mode of the ESC is often due to overheating so more effective cooling techniques may greatly improve their performance and life.
3. The use of water cooling is one of the best and most pratical ways to achieve good ESC cooling. Although many other techniques have been carefully examined and experimented with, including thermo-electrics, fans, and even heat pipes, water cooling appears the clear choice.
4. Proper water cooling to an ESC is done to keep the FET temps in a reasonable range and to determine this thermistors were placed on the FETS as well as caps and cooling water system. Logging was done by an Eagle tree system both in the desk test set-up and actual lake testing
5. Origionally I was interested in passive cooling however through extensive testing it appears that a closed ice and water cooling system has the absolute best performance. The key is to keep cost, complexity and weight down.
6. There are two BIG advantages to the closed-loop ice/water cooling system:
a. It cools more than just the ESC but greatly assists in motor cooling.
b. Drops the temps down to an incredibly low value..from the 150's to the 80's-90's.
I have inlcuded a pic of the set up I am currently using in several FE's The tank is a light weight (0.9 oz) nitro fuel tank and note that I have a thermistor installed in it so I can keep track of the closed loop cooling temps, and the small 6 to 12 VDC pump (2.5) oz. To use this system, the nitro tank is half filled with water and frozen. Before putting in a FE the tank is tapped off with cold water. You can put the pump on a switch but for simplicity I just connect it to the same small LiPo pac I use in my BEC circuit. It runs all the time with minimal draw.
I continue to use the Eagle Tree system for logging and the 3 temps I measure are FET temp, coolling water temp and motor temp. I am very happy with the overall results!
Fast Electric Addict!
Love it. Mine will be set up for this next year in most of my boats. Everything will run cooler. Tanks are cheap and you can take your cooler along with some ice and just make a ice water mix since the block will not stay solid for too long but in a cooler it should and with ice around it. It would be neat to have a nitro lid on it and extend it up thru the hull where you can just fill and drop some cubes in.
I also like pre-cooling and even letting her run after for a few minutes after a hard run.
The next is a motor cooler that should do very well.
Fast Electric Addict!
i think still having cold water running threw the system after a run is probably the biggest benefit that a closed system has, if you data log a run then watch the heat when you stop and every thing heat soaks
it jumps up a fair bit very fast, boat mite be running at a good temperature but by the time you get the lid of and temp the esc/motor it looks like its running a lot hotter than it really is
just my thought
Junior Member
why not just use or make small pump to push water through existing cooling system . just an idea?
Fast Electric Addict!
That is what this is. Closed loop so you maintain cold water.
Junior Member
what i meant was instead of water being pushed into pick up [ open loop] why not circulate water through speed control, motor faster with small pump just thinkin ways to keep weights down but still be more eficiant in cooling just an idea
Senior Member
If you read the threads in this forum you can see this is exactly what we are doing. Closed loop means you only circulate the onboard water (ice and water actualy) and do not discharge or intake any additional water. The pump is very lightweight and operates from 6 to 12 VDC.
Senior Member
Hey Questtek,
Where did you find that pump?
Wouldnt mind buying and playing around with this idea.
Cheers
Senior Member
I bought several of these pumps on E-Bay from a HK company. I lost the link but just do an E-Bay search and you will find several different small 12 vdc pumps for sale. Hope this helps.
Junior Member
hello! im new to this forum and im interest in this . i founf this liquid cool system online heres the link http://www.gaz-on.net/TCS-Thermal-Co...-for?artpage=2
Senior Member
I went thru the link you provided. I have several concerns:
1. Price, this was listed as a disadvantage but I saw no system price in the documentation
2. It is based on air passing over a radiator to remove heat from a recirculating, closed loop (no additional fluid in or out), coolant.
3. It appears to be designed for brushed motors primarily while a majority fo the FE's use brushless and also water cool the ESC.
I believe the solution is better fitted to vehicles that have a high air flow. In FE's, however, there is minimal air circulation in the hull so the radiator concept would only be margionally effective.
Also consider the removal of heat by the radiator is based on the difference in temperature between the air (say 75 degrees) and the coolant (say 100 degrees). This is not a big difference. However by using ice/water solution exchanger instead of an air driven radiator, the temperature difference is between the ice water (say 35 degrees) and the coolant. This higher delta Temperature is critical for high values of heat removal from the coolant.
Since I am not sure of the price of the referenced air radiator cooling system, I can not compare it to the price of the small electric pump (about $10) and small ice/water cooling tank (nitro fuel tank about $5). This dos assume the motor has a coolling jacket and the ESC has water cooling provisions.
Junior Member
as far for the price its cost 180 for brushless and 150 for brush heres the link http://www.tcscooling.com/priceandavailabi.html its include everything from liquid and stuff. just add a gas tank like u said so the liquid can be cool, so its doesnt getting pump back, sorry for my sucks english
Fast Electric Addict!
I think you will find that spending extra money for something that is really not set up for our uses will be a waste.
This thread went through very detailed testing in many forms but it came down to cold water thru a pump and using a can cooler on the motor and a good copper plate on the FETS. The numbers can't be beat by any other means.
For the price, the weight and for the cooling action, this one is the one to use.
The other nice thing about this system is you can cool prior to a run and even after. My summers here get to 100 and water is always 90 surface temps.
Senior Member
I totally agree with Jeff.
"The" Fighter Cat
I don't agree with the closed loop. You are putting hot water into the source and when the source's heat increases, you're left with no cooling, like a battery. Drained is done.
What I suggest is a small setup atop the rudder, with a coil inside that is surrounded by a freezable gel, similar to an ice pack.
The coil pack could be kept in a cooler at freezing until time to use and quickly installed outside the hull on the rudder and plugged into the normal water pickup.
The water intake remains at constant temps and is cooled by the coil pack and then sent into the hull. This way there is no risk of over temping your cooling source.
Just my .02
I'll make one up sometime. Sounds neat.
Carry on.
________
LIST OF GM ENGINES HISTORY
Last edited by FighterCat57; 02-14-2011 at 11:03 PM.
Fast Electric Addict!
We did that...still have mine in the freezer. Should be a pic on one of these threads.
Search questtek's threads and oyu will see that is exacly what we made. I had 3 brass rubes thru mine...slowing the water flow reduced othe output temps but it is heavier.
Give it shot and give us your feeback on this thread.
"The" Fighter Cat
Ha! I knew you'd have thought of this already!
Have you tried anything with dry ice?
Fast Electric Addict!
No dry ice. Not sure what would happen.
Did you find the pic of that I made?
"The" Fighter Cat
Dry ice is lighter and has a higher cooling capacity. Might solve the weight problem.
Drag racers do this sometimes to chill the fuel being delivered to the engine to produce more HP.
Fast Electric Addict!
Yes but it is the gas that cools...how will you handle this chunk of Ice? Get it wet and it begins to create gas and bubble like crazy.
"The" Fighter Cat
Typically a "coil in cooler" setup, where tubing is coiled in a cooler like container and just pass the fluid through the coil. The caution would be freezing lines if too much dry ice. That would be catastrophic.
The wheels are spinning.
Fast Electric Addict!
Look at post #52 It worked well and slower water flow makes it colder.
"The" Fighter Cat
Ideally, we should be using the outside airflow to cool the ESC's. Like a plumbed CPU cooler with the heat sink sitting atop the boat somewhere. It doesn't make sense to try to dissipate heat in a sealed hatch.
Something like this; where the ESC is inside and the heatsink is out in fresh air and is plumbed into the hull.
Fast Electric Addict
Ideally, we should be using the outside airflow to cool the ESC's. Like a plumbed CPU cooler with the heat sink sitting atop the boat somewhere. It doesn't make sense to try to dissipate heat in a sealed hatch.
Something like this; where the ESC is inside and the heatsink is out in fresh air and is plumbed into the hull.
That is a great idea. Heat pipes!
Chief
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