Rio Roses Fountain

[Brushless55]

Would this not do?
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...hless_Inrunner

I know it's an "L". But this motor is only 12mm shorter than a 540 XL. And most likely has more torque. Im not talking from experience, simply speculation, but I think it'd work great.

I would stick with a 9XL as it will pull less amps than the 580L
the 580s pull alot of amps..

[G Doggett]

I'm not interested in the 45mm motors for this boat, I will be using a 36mm KD36-60-11L which has 2200KV and a max amp rating of 55amps.
I figure this motor will be low torque / high rpm ( 32560 rpm on 4S) so that I can use a small diameter prop to help reduce prop torque on this skinny hull.
Maybe I should use Reddy's favourite X537/3 prop, but that doesn't have a 4 in it !
Douggie - I haven't done any calculations, it's all just guesswork, but I will be using my Eagle Tree on the first runs as always.
I suspect if it pulls much more than 50 - 60 amps it's a lotttery as to which expires first, the motor or the ESC.
Graham.

[crabstick]

I'm not interested in the 45mm motors for this boat, I will be using a 36mm KD36-60-11L which has 2200KV and a max amp rating of 55amps.
I figure this motor will be low torque / high rpm ( 32560 rpm on 4S) so that I can use a small diameter prop to help reduce prop torque on this skinny hull.
Maybe I should use Reddy's favourite X537/3 prop, but that doesn't have a 4 in it !
Douggie - I haven't done any calculations, it's all just guesswork, but I will be using my Eagle Tree on the first runs as always.
I suspect if it pulls much more than 50 - 60 amps it's a lotttery as to which expires first, the motor or the ESC.
Graham.

Good motor choice Graham, I would be using the same school of thought, high rpm's small prop. X440/3 would be the prop id start with :P

[Flying Scotsman]

Good motor choice Graham, I would be using the same school of thought, high rpm's small prop. X440/3 would be the prop id start with :P

To be honest I would use an 9 to 12Xl motor with 4 to 5S power but I know this was a budget enterprise...Keep us posted Graham.


Douggie

[Brushless55]

To be honest I would use an 9 to 12Xl motor with 4 to 5S power but I know this was a budget enterprise...Keep us posted Graham.


Douggie

I'm with Douggie on this one!
I had a KD540 11L in my revo and it did not last long, pulled much more than the advertised 55amps got hot and burnt..
The KD 9XL is not much more in cost

[Brushless55]

and for only a few bucks more a real 11L would be a better choice over the KD
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pro...i-540L&cat=116

[EPower]

and for only a few bucks more a real 11L would be a better choice over the KD
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pro...i-540L&cat=116

a bit more then a few dollars double the price i think most of the people on this thread miss the point of what Graham is trying to do EL cheepo build

[Brushless55]

Not missing the cheap build... The shipping from Hobbycity is high
after shipping the extra cost would be maybe 25bucks!
and actually could be less, may be only 15bucks

[EPower]

Not missing the cheap build... The shipping from Hobbycity is high
after shipping the extra cost would be maybe 25bucks!
and actually could be less, may be only 15bucks

the shipping from hobbycity is very good actually, it cost me less to get one KB458XL from them then when i brought my etti 150 from OSE double the weight
i think we getting way off the real subject here

[Brushless55]

the shipping from hobbycity is very good actually, it cost me less to get one KB458XL from them then when i brought my etti 150 from OSE double the weight
:

I bought a $30 motor and paid almost 20 bucks to get it shipped within 5days From Hobbycity, I could have paid less but usualy wait about two+ weeks to get my things.. I've bought a few items from OSE and only paid 8 bucks for shipping that came in the mail in two days!
Just to say OSE shipping kicks!
but the KDs to rock if you get a good one
I did a budget brushless on my revo, and picked a KD6XL and it flipin kicks

and back to the budget..

[EPower]

I bought a $30 motor and paid almost 20 bucks to get it shipped within 5days From Hobbycity, I could have paid less but usualy wait about two+ weeks to get my things.. I've bought a few items from OSE and only paid 8 bucks for shipping that came in the mail in two days!
Just to say OSE shipping kicks!
but the KDs to rock if you get a good one
I did a budget brushless on my revo, and picked a KD6XL and it flipin kicks

and back to the budget..

do you get a cut every time he sells something ??? you live in the states we don't

[Brushless55]

do you get a cut every time he sells something ??? you live in the states we don't

Where you live?
yep in the states his shipping is great and fast.. It's almost weird of how fast I get my parts from him..
and again the reason why I bought the KD6XL is I was building a budget Brushless Revo before they released the MMM Revo

So in the states the original L motor would be a good buy, but out of the states its still money saved for the KD..

[G Doggett]

The motor turned up today so thats 10 days from my order to my P O Box at an Air Freight cost of $12.12. ( Hong Kong to NZ )
I think thats pretty damn good.
I've given it a quick inspection and it seems OK, bearings ( yes it has ball bearings) seem smooth, and the shaft spins freely, and it has the alloy end plates.
I've treated it to an OSE cooling jacket and might find time this evening to bolt it onto the mount.
I'm not looking forward to programming the ESC wiggling the throttle and counting the beeps !
Graham.

[Brushless55]

Great job and much cheaper shippijng than to the states..
keep us posted!
did you go with the 11L motor?
wish I would not have smoked my 11L, I would like to try it in my SV27.. it only had two runs, wish there was a cheap fix..

[crabstick]

I'm not looking forward to programming the ESC wiggling the throttle and counting the beeps !
Graham.

LOL My heli/ plane ESC's I can remember the voltage cutoff programing tone and soft/hard cut tone lol

what i would do is put it in programming mode, and just let it run through the whole programming mode, to get a rough idea of the tones and then unplug, compare with instructions and then do it.

[G Doggett]

Nothing on TV tonight so I installed the OSE water jacket which fitted perfectly and mounted the motor in the hull.
Hooked up water cooling to the ESC and then to the motor with the water outlet on the motor at the highest point to prevent air pockets.
Soldered the supplied bullet connections to the ESC and hooked it all up.
As I suspected programming the ESC was a bit of a mission ( maybe I'm getting old and daft ), lots of beeps and chirps, but I got it sorted after at least 3 goes.
There were no instructions at all with the ESC so I had to download them from the HobbyKing website. What do you expect for under $30 !!!!!!
One interesting feature on this cheap chinese ESC is the ability to reverse the rotation of the motor when programming, which I did so that my wires stayed all neat and tidy ( yeah, I know ..... ).
As you can see, I'm using Deans connections on the batteries coz they are there already and are idiotproof and can easily handle this low voltage/current setup.
Plonked the batteries in place temporarily and fired it up , yep works a treat.
Last task is to put velcro in for the batteries and pray for fine weather this weekend for a maiden voyage.
I'll keep you posted.
Graham.

[G Doggett]

Great job and much cheaper shippijng than to the states..
keep us posted!
did you go with the 11L motor?
..

Yes it is the KD36-60-11L.
You are right, it is a different shade of red to the Feigao, but pretty much everything else seems to be the same, so fingers crossed it does the job.
Graham.

[SweetAccord]

Steering duties were taken care of by a mini GWS servo that I found in my junk draw mounted on a homemade alloy bracket above the stuffing tube.
The pushrods are bike spokes sliding through bits of antenna tube with plenty of grease to act as a seal.
In the picture you can also see the Assan 2.4 Ghz mini receiver sitting on top of a piece of foam and the antenna extending up the short tube.
The antenna tube mount is an RCA jack plug.

So how do you like the ASSAN so far?

[G Doggett]

So how do you like the ASSAN so far?

Hi SweetAccord

The Assan 2.4 Ghz conversion to my Futaba seems to work fine.
No glitches, just does what it is asked to do.
The only criticism I have found is the steering servo action is a little bit jerky, not as smooth as Futaba FM, but on the water I can't really notice this.
I like the fact that I was able to recycle my Futaba radio gear and never have to worry about frequency clashes ever again.
Graham.

[SweetAccord]

I agree, I love the principal of what the ASSAN does and how it works. I love the cost and the small recievers and that I was able to keep the Futaba like you.

[G Doggett]

Not much progress last night but I thought I would report the ESC programming options I have chosen and why.
Experienced boaters can ignore this

1) Cell type and Cut off voltage.
4S lipo and 12volt - ( this gives cut off at 3 volts per cell, which is as low as I would recommend to prevent cell damage. I would have prefered 3.2 but it is not available.
2) Throttle Setting.
Soft Acceleration - This still give full throttle but has the effect of opening the throttle gradually to help prevent surges and spikes which is hard on the gear.
3) Brake Setting.
Off - this is only used for cars and planes.
4) Direction and Cutoff Type.
Anticlockwise ( to suit my wiring layout) and Soft Cutoff.- this reduces power gradually when the voltage drops below 12 volts so that the boat can be driven slowly back to shore rather than just stopping dead.
5) Timing Mode.
Option 1 - This gives 1-7 degrees which is best for 2 pole motors particularly with just a sports set up. Highest efficiency,lowest heat, and longest run time.
6) PWM
8KHz - best for low pole motors.

Graham.

[G Doggett]

To hold the batteries in place I have used self adhesive and 'sew on' Velcro which I bought from a local Craft/Sewing shop rather than the LHS. - Much cheaper and it's the same stuff.
With everything in the hull I moved the batteries back and forth to arrive at 30% balance point and marked the position.
The self adhesive type is used on the batteries and the fore and aft strips on the hull floor, and the 'sew on' type was used to make hold down straps and was glued to the hull with lots of CA.
Just don't glue your fingers to the hull like I did !
I am using my Hyperion 4S packs but if I was buying Lipos just for this boat I would use something like Zippy or Turnigy for a fraction of the cost.
Because the batteries are set up in parallel I have used a Deans parallel connector from OSE which can easily handle the amps anticipated.
That's it, she's ready to go if the crappy weather improves.

I just had to show off my Futaba/Assan 2.4 Ghz conversion !
Graham.

[crabstick]

Not far away from a test run now Graham?

[G Doggett]

Hi Matt

'IF' it's fine tomorrow I will head down to the quarry with Simon ( got to be off the water by 10am for the yachties) and give her a run.
Might see you there ?

How did your offshore day go?

Graham.

[crabstick]

offshore is tomorrow, come on down!! ( jokes i know salt water is sub-optimal) paintball was today and it was great, about 35 + players, i got a LOT of tags, but also go tagged 9 times,

[crabstick]

Hi Graham

Howd the test run go ? Saturdays weather wasn't the best but yesterday was a nice day.



P.s.
Theres WAY too many sets of deans plugs in that boat, might as well wire a big resistor in between the lipos and ESC's

[Simon.O.]

Seeing as we have gone a weeny bit off topic, I am glad Graham did not come over to the quarry. I had a great morimg with the small fleet and then the 4S mono commited suicide. Bummer there.

Adrian was there with his white one ( can't remember the hull name) and it was amazingly quick.

I should be there nest Sunday morning from about 8.

Back to the Rio now.

and a small one for Matt, I have seen Grahams Jolly Cat that is Deans city and it is well fast !!

[crabstick]

and a small one for Matt, I have seen Grahams Jolly Cat that is Deans city and it is well fast !!

Yes but it runs twin 6 pole low amp draw motors. When you come and race, and beat me then you can tell me about battery connectors Only joking Simon , I know you wont come and race.

[G Doggett]

To be strickly correct Matt the Ammo 2300 motors are 2 pole, but yes they only draw about 60 amps each in my twin Jolly.
IMO it's a popular misconception that all bullet connections are automatically better than Deans.
If the Deans have been soldered correctly and are not corroded they have little if any resistance.
On my 8XL powered Toysport Triton the current draw is around 70 - 90 amps and after a 3 minute run the Deans connections are barely warm. In fact the wires tend to be warmer than the connections.
When they do start to get hot due to corosion and wear I will replace them with good quality 5mm bullets, but in the mean time they work just fine.

Back to the topic.

Graham.

[crabstick]

Fair points Graham, in a conservative setup they are probably ok. I will never use deans again personally. Bullet connectors have more surface area and my P-restricted offshore results at club champs speak for themselves, I recall lapping your triton in the first race.

Anyhoo, back on topic

So no test run of the shiny new beast then ?

Do you have any more pics of the bottom of the hull, looks like a very interesting hull design.