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Thread: Setups

  1. #1
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    Default Setups

    I guess I'll do the honor of asking if anyone has tried different settings on the boat, and whether they work or not..
    Post what ya got, and GPS speeds if ya got em..

  2. #2

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    Stock 36mm props, stock motors, stock ESC's, drive angle 0deg, 4S 3200 Venom Lipos packs = max speed before props fail 48mph on Garmin GPS
    VENOM RACING R&D

  3. #3
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    I'm working on the following setup... suggestions/warnings requested:

    First, I'm new to the forums and don't have much experience with boats (I'm a monster truck guy). Here's what I've done to my EKOS so far:

    1. Converted to Traxxas high-current connectors for compatibility with my other vehicles and batteries.

    2. Connected the two battery inputs to each other. The idea was to make sure each ESC had access to the same amount of power ( in case the batteries were not perfectly matched or evenly charged).

    3. Installed a series battery adapter to allow me to run two 2s cell batteries as a 4s battery.

    I found that everything works well and the boat is wicked fast for about 5 seconds. I realized my Lipos are not rated for 60 + 60=120amps continuous... they are only good for about 100amps. So as I see it, I have two choices...either I get higher rated 2s batteries or buy some expen$ive 4$ batteries. What do you guys think?

    OldSoldier
    EKOS and Brushless Pro Boat PT-109
    Last edited by OldSoldier99; 10-09-2009 at 10:44 AM. Reason: typos

  4. #4
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    Cool

    1. Coverted to Traxxas high-current connectors for compatibility with my other vehicles and batteries.
    Not a great idea. Those connectors are high resistance for a boat - boats are not trucks and they draw far more current. The best solution is to use 5.5 mm gold connectors. Reducing the plug resistance will mean less heat and more power going to the motors.

    2. Connected the two battery inputs to each other. The idea was to make sure each ESC had access to the same amount of power ( in case the batteries were not perfectly matched or evenly charged).
    If this means adding more wire - bad idea if I understand what you did and not necessary. The goal is to use the minimum length of wire everywhere to reduce resistance. Excessive wire length will cook your ESCs. The two motors will never be perfectly matched in rpm no matter what you do.

    3. Installed a series battery adapter to allow me to run two 2s cell batteries as a 4s battery.
    Adapters can be good, but they need to have the minimum length of wire practical. If you use the 5.5 plugs you won't need those high-resistance "adapters".

    I found that everything works well and the boat is wicked fast for about 5 seconds. I realized my Lipos are not rated for 60 + 60=120amps continuous... they are only good for about 100amps. So as I see it, I have two choices...either I get higher rated 2C batteries or buy some expen$ive 4$ batteries. What do you guys think?
    What happens after 5 seconds? Does it stop? Does it burst into flames? What cells are you using? Why do you think that you are using 120 amps? We can't give meaningful help without more detailed information....

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    ERROR 403 - This is not the page you are looking for


  5. #5
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    Default

    Fluid,
    Thanks for your reples. Two things:

    1) I thought the new Traxxas High-Current connectors were created specifically for high power/low resistance brushless applications like this. They are supposed to be as good or better than Deans Ultra connectors. Brushless ESCs for monster trucks are routinely rated at over 100 amps. I'm not talking about the old Tamiya-style connectors that most RC cars and trucks use.

    2)

    I found that everything works well and the boat is wicked fast for about 5 seconds. I realized my Lipos are not rated for 60 + 60=120amps continuous... they are only good for about 100amps. So as I see it, I have two choices...either I get higher rated 2C batteries or buy some expen$ive 4$ batteries. What do you guys think?

    What happens after 5 seconds? Does it stop? Does it burst into flames? What cells are you using? Why do you think that you are using 120 amps? We can't give meaningful help without more detailed information....
    After about 5 seconds of wicked fast running, the boat slows down to about 2s speed. No matter how far you pull the trigger on the transmitter, it wont go any faster than about 2s speed. I assumed my batteries were not capable of providing any more current. I got the 120 amp figure from the fact that there are two 60amp ESCs in the EKOS. Since I have the batteries in series, I assume they would have to be capable of 60+60=120amps at full throttle. My cells are Zippy Lipo 30C, 2s, 5000. I think the 30C rating is the burst rating and I think the continous rating is 20C. 20C x 5000=100amps battery capacity.
    Last edited by OldSoldier99; 10-09-2009 at 11:05 AM. Reason: spelling

  6. #6

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    What your seeing is the ESC's demanding a lot of power and your packs are delivering the best of the top of the charge which you could call the Burst Current. Then the pack settles in for the remainder of the run and just provides its usual discharge power.
    When you get the chance you should get a couple of 3S 5400, or anything over 4000mah, packs. That will give you better runtime and higher speeds. You could go to 4S 3200-3600mah packs that will just squeeze into the hull/hatch w/o any mods.
    VENOM RACING R&D

  7. #7
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    1) I thought the new Traxxas High-Current connectors were created specifically for high power/low resistance brushless applications like this. They are supposed to be as good or better than Deans Ultra connectors. Brushless ESCs for monster trucks are routinely rated at over 100 amps. I'm not talking about the old Tamiya-style connectors that most RC cars and trucks use.
    It doesn't matter what trucks are "rated" to pull, boats pull a higher continuous amperage. There have been hundreds of car and truck guys who thought like this before they found out the facts the hard way. I'm just trying to save you from a train wreck.

    Deans connectors are only good for about 60 amps. Replace the cheezy car plugs with high-quality 5.5 mm gold connectors which are good for well over 100 amps continuous.

    2) After about 5 seconds of wicked fast running, the boat slows down to about 2s speed. No matter how far you pull the trigger on the transmitter, it wont go any faster than about 2s speed. I assumed my batteries were not capable of providing any more current.
    Perhaps, but to lose half the voltage is not just burning off the top of the charge - it means the packs you have are junk. This is strange because the Zippy packs I've seen are better than this. The lousy connectors could be part of the problem, or it could be the bridge you have between the packs. Set the boat back up the way it came from the factory.

    I got the 120 amp figure from the fact that there are two 60amp ESCs in the EKOS. Since I have the batteries in series, I assume they would have to be capable of 60+60=120amps at full throttle....
    The motors will pull the amps demanded of them from the props and hull - it is usually well under the ESC's rating in RTRs. You can prop up and pull 100+ amps per motor. Poorly aligned drivelines and a wet running boat can do the same thing. These are not Hacker or Neu racing motors, they won't pull huge amps unless something is wrong.

    If your packs are okay, then the problem is likely something you have done to modify the boat's electrics. Put them back the way they came and try again to see if you still have the same problems. Otherwise it may be something wrong with the ESCs. Problems like this are difficult to diagnose by remote control....



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    ERROR 403 - This is not the page you are looking for


  8. #8

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    OH! you made a 4S pack from 2 X 2S packs to run both motors? I missed that if thats that case then you just dont have enough battery to do that from 5000mah total. For the power demands this boat has you need 2 X 4S packs (or whatever you want to run) or your going to damage your packs from over stressing them and temps. If you run it with the individual packs your total capacity is over 10,000mah. Your just quick discharging a smaller pack thats why your not seeing the run time but you are seeing the performance potential.

    The ESC's are rated for 60A and you cant go wrong with the EC3 plug or Deans Ultra or the Traxxas plug. If you upgrade to higher power equipment then change the plugs to high current bullets or something you like better.
    VENOM RACING R&D

  9. #9
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OldSoldier99 View Post

    After about 5 seconds of wicked fast running, the boat slows down to about 2s speed. No matter how far you pull the trigger on the transmitter, it wont go any faster than about 2s speed. I assumed my batteries were not capable of providing any more current. I got the 120 amp figure from the fact that there are two 60amp ESCs in the EKOS. Since I have the batteries in series, I assume they would have to be capable of 60+60=120amps at full throttle. My cells are Zippy Lipo 30C, 2s, 5000. I think the 30C rating is the burst rating and I think the continous rating is 20C. 20C x 5000=100amps battery capacity.
    I think those batteries should be 30c cont.. so 150amps cont..
    and 40c burst..
    Possibly

  10. #10
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    Default

    Thanks to all for your wisdom. I will make some changes over the weekend and report back. I have ordered some 4S 4000mah batteries, but it will take a few days for them to arrive.

    OldSoldier
    Last edited by OldSoldier99; 10-10-2009 at 01:45 AM. Reason: spelling

  11. #11
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    Default Lipo Batteries

    Quote Originally Posted by Brushless55 View Post
    I think those batteries should be 30c cont.. so 150amps cont..
    and 40c burst..
    Possibly
    I just looked it up on the Hobby King website. You are correct...the constant rating is 30C and burst is 40C. If the ratings are accurate, that should be enough power to run my unorthodox setup. I'm begining to suspect Fluid is right and my modifications are suspect. I'll make some changes and report back later.

    By the way, have you guys already fought the Zippy vs. MaxAmps war on this forum? I've seen that war fought on some of the truck forums.

    Thanks again to all.
    OldSoldier

  12. #12
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    Default Connectors

    Deans connectors are only good for about 60 amps. Replace the cheezy car plugs with high-quality 5.5 mm gold connectors which are good for well over 100 amps continuous.
    My Castle Creations Mamba Max Monster ESCs use the 5.5mm gold bullet connectors you speak of. I have a few extras on my work bench. The only down side is they are not keyed for polarity so you are on your own to make sure you don't mess up. I guess at this level of the hobby we should be able to handle that......as long as we're sober

    The other issue with the bullet connectors is battery storage. If you lay them down or they fall, there is a great chance of them shorting. I assume you have covers for them and replace the covers as soon as you remove them from the boat.

  13. #13
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    Default Battery size

    When you get the chance you should get a couple of 3S 5400, or anything over 4000mah, packs. That will give you better runtime and higher speeds. You could go to 4S 3200-3600mah packs that will just squeeze into the hull/hatch w/o any mods.
    I have a Venom 3S 5400 that I use in one of my monster trucks. I was not sure it would fit in this boat. What is the max height in the battery compartment. I've estimated it to be 30mm.

  14. #14
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    My Castle Creations Mamba Max Monster ESCs use the 5.5mm gold bullet connectors you speak of. I have a few extras on my work bench. The only down side is they are not keyed for polarity so you are on your own to make sure you don't mess up. I guess at this level of the hobby we should be able to handle that.......
    Nope, polarize them yourself. Put the male on the negative wire on the pack and the female on the positive. Don't put males on both pack wires! I have seen too many experienced guys - who run non-polarized 5.5s - plug in the wrong wires and fry their ESC.....



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    ERROR 403 - This is not the page you are looking for


  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluid View Post
    Nope, polarize them yourself. Put the male on the negative wire on the pack and the female on the positive. Don't put males on both pack wires! I have seen too many experienced guys - who run non-polarized 5.5s - plug in the wrong wires and fry their ESC.....
    .
    Fluid,
    That sounds so simple, yet I never would have thought of that! You rock!

  16. #16
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    Default

    Here's the new (pending) setup. Just waiting on Venom to get a new damned flexshaft sent to me..

    Dual Etti 150A ESCs
    Etti 35V Cap Banks
    Neu 5S 4000mah batts
    Stock Venom motors (for now)
    Octura x442 props
    8 ga. battery wire w/6mm bullets

    Gonna shoot for 60mph with a light trigger finger (try not to melt anything before then).
    After that 60mph mark, I'm gonna see what these motors are made of (70mph??)

  17. #17
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    51,000 rpms+ sounds like a recipe for death to me. in addition to a 380 motor pushing a 442 prop! personally, I wouldn't subject 300 bucks worth of esc's to that, but then again, without adventurers where would we be? Just my 1 cent.
    Samuel Johnson - “An injustice anywhere is an injustice everywhere.” William Cooper "listen to everything, read everything, and believe nothing unless you can prove it in your own research!"

  18. #18
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    Dang, on 5s those motors will be smokin!
    well uh hopefully not...

    good luck!

  19. #19
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    EH, Oh well if she blows.. Its just a toy.
    Everyone thought the the first nuclear bomb would ignite the whole atmosphere, and now they control the world's fears...

  20. #20
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OldSoldier99 View Post
    I just looked it up on the Hobby King website. You are correct...the constant rating is 30C and burst is 40C. If the ratings are accurate, that should be enough power to run my unorthodox setup. I'm begining to suspect Fluid is right and my modifications are suspect. I'll make some changes and report back later.

    By the way, have you guys already fought the Zippy vs. MaxAmps war on this forum? I've seen that war fought on some of the truck forums.

    Thanks again to all.
    OldSoldier
    OK...here's what I tried over the weekend:

    First I cut my connecting wires to reduce the amount of wire (spelled resistance) that was introduced with my modifications (Fluid's suggestion). The 2s Zippy FlightMax 5000s in series ran the boat well for about 2 minutes with wicked fast speed. After that, I suspect the ESCs dropped into low voltage mode.

    I then swapped in a pair of ThunderPower 3s 5000 40C (had to tape the hatch down because of the tight fit). I ran the pair of 3s batteries in parallel. The EKOS performed so well, that I'm begining to think the 4s batteries I ordered are over-kill....but I can't wait to try them

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by NitroVal View Post
    EH, Oh well if she blows.. Its just a toy.
    Everyone thought the the first nuclear bomb would ignite the whole atmosphere, and now they control the world's fears...
    they are the world's fears.
    :::::::::::::::. It's NEVER fast enough! .:::::::::::::::

  22. #22
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    and those who made the bomb had no Idea what would happen!
    high kv brushless motors with lots of volts = hmmmm

  23. #23

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    I suggest using the 32mm 1.4 pitch props in aluminum and even then your going to overload the motors for sure on 5S. A short burst and long pause to control temps might work but you should consider swapping out the motors for lower KV or longer cans or both.
    VENOM RACING R&D

  24. #24
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    A 5s SAW run could be plausable....
    and fast!

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brushless55 View Post
    A 5s SAW run could be plausable....
    and fast!
    SAW run

  26. #26
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    Got the flexshafts in today, so Im gonna work feverishly tomorrow morning to get everything back together. Gotta go take down a lightning struck tree at noon, so I think I'll be busy for the rest of the week. Hopefully some test runs on the weekend

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSoldier99 View Post
    SAW run
    Straighaways

  28. #28
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    In other words
    One really fast run

  29. #29
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    Default 4s run

    All, I just bought a pair of Zippy FlightMax 4s 5000s. If you remove the foam from the canopy they just barely fit. You will have to tape the canopy down (which I do anyway). The boat runs well and wicked fast! Unfortunately, I have not had a chance to get a speed run with GPS (my daughter needed my GPS). My wife just bought me a new GPS today so I'm back in business (bless her heart! Guess I'll keep her!) Weather is bad on east coast this weekend, but I might get a chance to put her in the water Sunday after church (the EKOS...not the wife). I'm amazed at how stable the boat is at 4s speed!! Anyone else got numbers???
    Last edited by OldSoldier99; 10-18-2009 at 12:37 AM. Reason: added one liner

  30. #30
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    Just finished mine (5S) and Im gonna dump her in the lake tomorrow for some test runs..
    https://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/...595#post132595

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