I forget what I was going to name this motor. But as soon as my son Lamar saw a picture of it, he came back with a picture of a giant squid, and the motor was named a THE SQUID motor!!!!!!!
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I forget what I was going to name this motor. But as soon as my son Lamar saw a picture of it, he came back with a picture of a giant squid, and the motor was named a THE SQUID motor!!!!!!!
Attachment 168974
Nice!
So ahhhhh......you got some splain'n to do Lucy.
Question: What do you get when you "let the smoke out" or FRY a Squid motor?
Answer: Calamari! :cool2::cool2::cool2:
Actually we don't know... the smoke seems to stay in these squid motors! :tt2:
Later,
Lamar
Yes, an explanation. Like an ingredients list, and method in detail! lots of pics too!!
cheers, Jay.
I just want to know "what fer?"
Jay, It's the same motors that we usually use.
Terry, To make more room on the inside, I moved the connections to the outside. And because it looks so danged cool.
Got it. I clearly need to make a trip to Huntsville with some go straight and 2 lap boats. haha I could bring the hired gun.
Yes come on down to Huntsville for some record running. And remember, my youngest son owns a brewpub there. A free beer for record winners!
Don
I understand a 2D motor or a 4D motor,
What is a 4DDD motor??
Larry
FINALLY some body noticed that. Thanks Larry.
In the DDD or YYY type of wind, you wire each individual coil by it's self, and run the leads out. So wrap 3 turns around a coil and cut the exit LEAD same length as the entrance LEAD. Now using a new wire, wrap 3 turns on the second coil and exit. Now do the third the same way.
Were going to do just one lead now to show how it works. We ca add the other two leads and 6 coils after were done with this one.
So now bring all the START leads and twist them together, and now all the FINISH leads and twist them together separate from the start lead, so that we have just two leads like if we did all three coils with one bundle like normal.
Do the same thing with the #2 set of three coils, and then the #3 set of coils.
So now we will have 6 leads sticking out of the stator, like on the normal wind. These leads will not necessarily be in the same order as they are in the normal wind unless you were very careful and planned ahead. Notice that one of the squids is color coded and the other is numbered. That's how I kept up with which lead was what. I did it on the 2 delta also because with 18 individual leads sticking out, you better know which one goes where!!!
So you see from that mess, that on each leg we have 3 coils wired individually per leg.
The reason for this is, lets say that we wound a motor in 2 delta and it's kv was not as high as we want to get the rpm that we want. Thats because in the normal 2D wind, we actually have 3 coils wired in a series, per leg. And that means that we actually have 6 turns PER LEG, 3 coils X 2 turns apiece =6 total turns per leg.
A 2 turn, is as low a turn count as will work, 1 turn don't work, and if it did it would decrease the wire length by 50%, and would raise the kv the same amount or a little more.
And now lets say that the lead on that 2 turn bundle above, has a length of 3 feet. If we go to say 4DDD, the length of the wire going around just one coil is now only about 2.1 feet or roughly a 30% reduction in length. And since all three coils are wired parallel, they all get the juice at the same time and all three ACT like they are wound at 1.4 turns and the kv goes up accordingly.
On the Squid motor I did it to get the kv up to where I wanted it for 4s batteries in a record SAW pass. There are times when you would do it to try and get closer to a specific kv because by doing DDD or YYY you can make 2-300 rpm jumps in the kv. But looking at motor data you see that normally moving just one turn number will result in a 600-1000 rpm or more jump in kv.
All this is based on a 9 or 18 slot stator and 6 pole rotor, ie meaning D is 3 coils D is 3 and D is 3 more. The DDD is describing that there are 3 sets of coils per leg.
If we were doing a 4 pole 12 slot motor (which is our most common) it would be called DD or YY, because there are only 2 coils per leg in a 12 slot stator.
Some of us are still talking about the nats even with this virus crap still lingering. We'll see. Two trips might be tough but no Cup!Quote:
Originally Posted by donhuff
Yeah, I'd do the Nats before I drove that far, for a record trials. The weather in Huntsville is always iffy.
Well done Don!!! Brings back memories of some custom Aveox motors I wound in the late 90's. Maximize the copper fill in the windows, minimize the end winding losses and funky eddy currents. With good high temp wire it should raise the current capacity significantly. when are you going to start winding with silver wire? At some point the field will saturate, that will be the wall for the base components. Next thing will be fine tuning with magnet grade and rotor air gap.
I wish I had some parts for the old Aveox HyperCo FAI motors. 1409 size, 24 slot hypercobalt stacks and 8 pole pie wedge magnet rotors. We could probably run 2kw through those with cooling. I think we were putting 2.4kw 5 second bursts through them in the nose of airplanes.
Thanks Brian.
Yes max copper fill really wakes up the AQ especially, because it has such a small amount of wire in it as stock. And the "windows" are huge compared to the other motors in the class.
But the stator lamination's are an old design, and are thick, and appear to be made from a more regular type of steel.
Like you say, the high temp wire, is the best part, about a rewind. especially in the dynamite motors. They have smaller slots and I can't get a big increase in copper fill, the 2000 in particular will hold only 2 or 3 extra strands , but the good insulation on the wire makes is well worth the rewind. Because then you can push it hard and hot and it keeps on running.
The silver wire sounds interesting, and I have looked at it before, BUT it's expensive! And I don't think we're at that "level" YET. I would like to see the difference it makes, if any, compared to a full window of good copper. Someday, if I ever get my dyno built, I'll be able to compare such things.
Magnet grade is something that I haven't done much with, mostly because all or motors have magnets shaped in a certain way to fit a particular stator. The "pie wedge" magnets sounds great, if only I could get some shaped like I want them cheeply, because if it doesn't work, they go in the trash. Actually stuff like that goes into the junk box, so that I can try them in the next experiment.
Air gap is a BIG factor in the power output of our motors. And is one reason that the Dynm 1500 is so strong. It has the tightest air gap of any motor that I have taken apart. I have made a couple of AQ rotor hubs, with larger diameters, and glued the magnets to them so as to close the air gap by half. It does make a difference!
I have made a couple of 8 pole and a couple of 10 pole motors out of my junk box. And they both worked pretty good. I don't think that they are worth the time and trouble though. And by using scrap parts, I wasn't able to get things to the dimensions that I would rather have had.
The Aveox HyperCobalt sounds interesting.
The parts kit for the HyperCo motors ran ~$600 each in '96 dollars. Very expensive, but they did help the US win the F5B WC in 1998.
The silver windings are only useful when you're trying to get the last percent of efficiency out of a system. I know Tenshock is offering silver wire in a couple of their NAVIGA specific motors.
Tightening up the air gap definitely improves efficiency. We used to fine tune torque curves in our F5D motors with different diameter rotors. We only had two props available at the time, so it was a case of tuning to the props. I had a half dozen rotors in .005" diameter steps.
Fun times, back when we had to build everything. Took some serious dedication to get to WC level performance.
I wonder if you could build a TP3650 down at 60mm length if all the ties were outside the can. I know it could be done with a TP3640.
I went to the AMA nats one year 99 or 2000, and managed to win controline aerobatics Beginners class. But We stayed for several days watching all the different stuff going on there, and was amazed at the extent some folks were going to, to get to that level. And the nats is still a long way from World Cup level.
We got to see a few controline speed F2A guys run. Wowzer, those little 15s turning 38,000 rpm on FAI fuel, sounded awsome. And they are as fast and usually faster than the AMA classes can run, using 70% nitro. Like you said, lots of dedication to get to that level, in any WC class. I didn't see any electrics when I was there.
You might could do a TP like that and cram it into the short case. But I don't fool with the TP brand because they do not insulate the stator with an epoxy coating like most do. They put silicone sleeves down through the slots instead. And when you unwind one of them, all the stator plates will fall apart and make a mess that's almost impossible to get back together and rewind.
I haven't torn a TP down that far, interesting.
If you built a stacking tool, you could assemble stacks to what ever length you need. i would bet that the coating isn't epoxy but powder coat. That was the what was used in the aveox stacks.
All the fun of building monster motors.
Yes if you went that far with it to make a stacking tool it might be easier to do the TP.
I use powder coat when I redo my stators. I use the regular paint but I know there is an Epoxy powder out there too that works like the powder paint. Some of the guys coating cast bullets use the epoxy system. I use the powder paint, out of an electrostatic gun, to coat my bullets. I use a small fluid bed when coating the stators, I couldn't get the electrostatic gun to get the paint down in the slots that well.
I think that the coating on most of the cheap chinese motors is a polyester resin like gel coat, sure smells like it when you sand on one.
Ah yes, monster motors. I follow the hot rodders Golden Rule, only now it's ROTOR displacement (diameter x length) that I seek, instead of cylinder displacement.