Feeler thread- FE 1/10 scale unlimited hydro class in IMPBA

This is absolutely one of the most interesting threads I've come across in a very long time. It's always fun to see what folks are building and talking about in 1:10 scale. I don't have much patience when it comes to politics, but I love racing 1:10 scale. I've done it exclusively for over 25 years now and I still love it. Out here in WA, where scale racing started, it's so much about the history of the real unlimiteds. I love the idea of more racers getting into 1:10 scale in other parts of the country and world. IMO, they are just about a perfect fit in size and affordability. I can tell you that turning left was as important to me as the fact that the FE boats don't have to be toss started while running. I grew up having seen real hydroplanes run and I was hooked when I saw a 36" hydro get on plane from a standstill. Once I got on the water with my first boat and got enough confidence and skill to go deck to deck with other scale boat and sliding through corners on the small skid fin, I couldn't imagine doing it any other way. It's not surprising to me that people who have experienced only turning right in other classes would tend to want to continue that when faced with something new. Yes, I will always want to see scale hydroplanes turning left. Yes, I always wondered why 1:8th scale racers haven't started turning left now that they are not so limited in prop selection. IMO scale racing takes a commitment to something other than the people that race. It's a commitment to the history of the real boats. That's hard to do when you're just starting out and it may not be popular. Is turning left a deal-breaker for some, maybe. Maybe you build a few boats first, try turning left in a few experimental or exhibitions. Maybe it won't be as big of a deal as anticipated. I know we have a different connection to history and maybe some have never seen event a video of a real unlimited race from the 50's or 60's but why not try it if it's easy to change over if you don't like it? At least then you know that you have a chance that there could be some crossover with other hobbyists if the majority are turning left in 1:10 scale. It doesn't sound like you'd be risking much by starting out that way and seeing how it goes before locking in on making it a formal class and solidifying a rules package. Anyway, it's nice to see 1:10 scale being talked about. I've never dealt with IMPBA, so I won't speak to it's bad relationship history with NAMBA. Let's see some more boats! Let me know if there is anything I can do to help with a build. I'm working on some parts for the 83 Renault and a 92 Coors dry build right now for some guys on this thread.

I was wondering when Captain Butthurt was gonna show and turn this into another anti IMPBA rant....

Apparently Davey boy's comprehension skills are severely lacking when it has been repeatedly stated that ultimately IF this gets going on a national level we will do what the MAJORITY of actual racers want. For now since right turn 10th scales already exist in my district (which I did not know about until this past weekend) we will play that way in my district.

Hmm..... Nah that's not it at all after this crap-

3.) No, IMPBA shouldn’t put a class in the book that 5-6 guys have a boat for. But a class that is the most popular in all of FE should be considered for the rule book. I can’t say the classes or the moderators here will delete the post. But I’m not talking about 10th Scale.
4.) I do state that the BODs turn down classes even though the majority of members want them. And that’s why it’s no use making proposals because the BODs have made it clear privately and publically that there is a VERY popular class in FE that they just will not consider to be allowed in the rule books. Again… not talking about 10th Scale.

Nope. Captain Butthurt is using my 1/10th scale discussion thread as a soapbox so he can wizz and moan about P limited and have his little temper tantrum about the evils of the IMPBA. Again.

Congratulations David you lived up to my expectations and are the very reason this was in the first post when I started this thread-

I'd like some POSITIVE and CONSTRUCTIVE input from IMPBA folks who might want to try this out and NAMBA racers who already run it and what they like about it. Ideas and thoughts are welcome BUT if there are any "pissin' and moanin" posts I'll ask mods to remove them immediately.

So unless you can contribute something SPECIFICALLY about this class take that crybaby crap somewhere else and stay off this thread

Reminder:

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Originally Posted by Steven Vaccaro

David, this about sums it up.

"ive brought this up to individuals within IMPBA and the previous FE National host club, but no one wants to hear it. "

If no one wants to hear it, consider dropping it and joining what's being done. I'm so done with this subject. I'm openly telling any mod to remove any thread that deal with spec class rules. Enough. We look like a bunch of childish fools.

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Originally Posted by mpschofield

Do we need to put a class in the rule book every time 5-6 guys build the same boat that's not a class.... probably not.

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DING DING DING Guilty Matt! Looking right in the mirror. I'm guilty. This is where we (FE) has screwed up the works. I can tell you how it happened though.

In the early years of FE the only way you could get enough racers of any particular class to make a heat of anything was by gathering guys from multiple clubs and in some cases multiple districts. NAMBA had a nats every year and the belief then was that it had to be in the rule book or we were uninsured. Nonsense of course but that was the directive. So every time the tech changed or something new came along that put a handful of boats on the water in a district it got proposed. There was never enough demand for 1/8 scale for instance IMPBA had approximately 5 boats nation wide when the rule was added. In fairness, there could have been some I didn't know about. If I'm off by 200% that makes 15. The FE thinking then was "make the rule and they will come". Doesn't work that way as you mentioned.

Now that every form of every boat we ever thought of is in the book we will have them forever. Nothing ever comes back out of either book. ECO is still in the NAMBA book. Couldn't field a heat at the largest FE event ever. N stock hydro is still in the IMPBA rule book. For what? There are maybe 2 guys that run it at a time trial once per year. Worthy of inclusion? There are plenty of unattended classes like this in both books. Just clutter for anyone looking to get into racing. I'm as guilty as anyone for this being so. Ignorance was bliss.

FE is a super small specialized segment or racing spread over too many classes. Net result being that it's hard to form heats. This is how so many FE guys end up running so many classes. Trying to make heats. Why be good at 3 or 4 classes when you can suck at a 11 of them? haha

With Don's group, I'm simply asking (more like hoping, still aint mad at ya Don) that if they're going to start fiddling with scales that they try to follow along with other guys from our tiny little itty bitty segment of the hobby. The format exists. Guys are digging it. It's actually our most attended class up here now. Go figure. Some of the ERCU club races go 50 boats. Why try to forge a new path? Two different versions of the same thing? Let's say there is interest worthy of being added to major events in the future. If some venue wants to attract some 10th scale guys in some distant future they need to pick which format to run. ugh. The guys that already built boats to turn this way or that way will have to make a decision........do they toss their boats and start over or just not race at venue x,y,z? The whole point is for us morons to get together at the pond and have a few laughs.

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Originally Posted by don ferrette

Hmmm, figure 8s... now THAT would be a hoot, like the old demolition derby days. :roflol::roflol::roflol:

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We've been talking about this for years. We should make it happen at an event in the future. We need to stop goofing and do it. I think it would be a riot. Just some turds from our fleets that we don't care about anymore. Like a Viking funeral or something. HA! Last boat running is gutted, lit on fire, and pushed out to die.

Don,
I was responding to direct questions asked by Matt when I had to say "But I’m not talking about 10th Scale."

My first post was completely in regards to 10th scale and the potentials of it being an unlimited hydro class in IMPBA.

I'm not the only one who sees what's going to happen here. If your district runs right and others run left, the IMPBA BODs will NOT give its seal of approval for a rules proposal and thus will never make it in the rule book. So like some other classes... host clubs will dictate the rules and some racers who are in clubs that go the other way will be unable to enter their boats in the National Event. Year to year there will be different rules and no consistency. And that's my positive and constructive input. Like Terry, I don't want to see a class like this run different ways and thus guys from across the country can't race together and there will only be cross over from NAMBA racers when an event is being hosted by a club who runs left turning.

The fact that there is a long history of 10th scale being run left and there are a bunch of boats in district 2 being run left says that it may be the smarter avenue NOT to accommodate the minority (1 or 2 boats) at this point and start running right in a particular district.

And I do expect the administrator do do something about your abusive name calling.

Abusive name calling?? LMAO!!! Here's a better idea- since you can't offer anything productive on this topic why don't you just go to your safe space and stay off my thread.

Please keep it on the surface fellas. David it seems that your input isn't wanted in this thread. Please find something else to do with your time. Thank you sir.:tiphat:

Having driven lots of boats that turn right and quite a few that turn left, here's my input for what it's worth.

Actually driving the boats is easy, it takes a few laps to get the accustomed to the direction, after that it just driving a boat. These boats are fun to drive and they look great on the water without breaking the bank.

The hardcore scale guys love the left turning thing, it scratches that itch. I don't know that it's worth changing the direction for an established class with pretty good equipment support.

The only time there is any issue with the lefties is in open water, they need their own open water sessions. It's not a big deal, the organizer just needs to plan for it.

Just my .02

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Originally Posted by raptor347

The only time there is any issue with the lefties is in open water, they need their own open water sessions. It's not a big deal, the organizer just needs to plan for it.

Just my .02

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Yep. That's what we do at the Spring Nats. "Guys we'll close the pond and let the 10ths run at --:00, be ready". I don't recall them ever asking for more than one shot at it. Guys that have never seen them run stop what they're doing to watch. I know I did...

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Originally Posted by don ferrette

Abusive name calling?? LMAO!!! Here's a better idea- since you can't offer anything productive on this topic why don't you just go to your safe space and stay off my thread.

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Don,
You really make me laugh. :roflol:
Do you not understand that by you demanding that anyone with an opposing voice take it elsewhere you ARE the one whom is demanding this thread be YOUR safe space.

Go ahead Don... go and encourage folks in your district to build right running boats because 1 or 2 already exist. Then you'll have maybe 6 to 8 right running boats while the rest of both organizations are running left. Then if the BOD ever decides to put 10th Scale in the books they will go with the MAJORITY and run left. Mean while your right runners will run alone and not be allowed at National Events.

That is unless its really your goal to expect everyone else to change because your district as a couple boats currently running right. Because if that's not your ultimate goal then it'd just seem to make sense for you to advice your district to conform and build to what's already out there in much larger numbers. Otherwise you are just setting them up to build boats which may not be able to run outside your district. Besides the fact that they will be worth less to sell if they ever want to as people will want the left turning boats.

Just doesn't make much sense... but that's right, I'm the bad guy. :blah:

And Doug... I've done nothing wrong. Why don't you spend your time talking to the single member whom is attempting to bully another member out of a thread with name calling. Effectively I'd said nothing different then multiple others in this thread regarding Don's thoughts on running right turning 10th Scales. There's multiple people who disagree and it appears that he stands alone on this issue.

And Mitch... thought you might appreciate these.

Davey boy you really don't get it do you? Your opinions mean nothing because you are nothing more than a shxt stirrer pounding on his keyboard. I have no respect for someone who does not race and spends his time causing problems as you do both here and elsewhere (yeah I know about all the crap you stirred up with the IMPBA officials) . You used this thread to once again bash the IMPBA just like I knew you would when I made the first post. While the guys in my district are wanting to "go right" I am encouraging them to build as I am with a turn fin backer on both sponsons so IF this class catches on nationally and the majority want to go left it's an easy switch with a turn fin, cable and prop change. If it doesn't then we will continue to have fun locally, either way we have more boats on the water. Nobody who has been involved in this thread has been asked to step away because of differing opinions, only you are not welcome because you are nothing more than a whiny little crybaby who still hasn't gotten over the whole P limited thing and proved it with posts you made here. So little man take your wadded up panties elsewhere so we can get back to talking about the pros and cons of this class.

David, you’ve already been warned by another moderator to stay off this thread. Like it or not, this is not your forum, it’s Steven’s. Disruptive behavior - by anyone on the forum - isn’t tolerated well. Consider this another warning.....


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Originally Posted by don ferrette

While the guys in my district are wanting to "go right" I am encouraging them to build as I am with a turn fin backer on both sponsons so IF this class catches on nationally and the majority want to go left it's an easy switch with a turn fin, cable and prop change.

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Well at least you're giving some good advice there. :thumbup1:
Probably not a bad idea for any scale boat, either 8th or 10th scales.

I with that I'll :zip-up: I've said my peace on the matter.
Just hope Matt wants to and can clean up the mess that is FE in IMPBA.

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Originally Posted by Fluid

David, you’ve already been warned by another moderator to stay off this thread. Like it or not, this is not your forum, it’s Steven’s. Disruptive behavior - by anyone on the forum - isn’t tolerated well. Consider this another warning.....


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Originally Posted by dethow

I with that I'll :zip-up: I've said my peace on the matter.

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We'll take you at your word....

Thank you sir and have a great evening.:beerchug:

That there is the essence of scale racing!! That is too cool. 1:10 scale and full scale replicas together. I talked with the guys that did the replica boat when I was building mine. I even took some hints from their decking of the boat when I laid down my mahogany decks. They were helpful in trying to match the color of the original boat as best we could. Who would have thought my old Gale V would make it out to be with theirs. I'm gonna save those pics if you don't mind. I might even post one on my web site if that's ok too. Thanks for making my day. I'm just a scale hydro geek at heart

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Originally Posted by raptor347

Having driven lots of boats that turn right and quite a few that turn left, here's my input for what it's worth.

Actually driving the boats is easy, it takes a few laps to get the accustomed to the direction, after that it just driving a boat. These boats are fun to drive and they look great on the water without breaking the bank.

The hardcore scale guys love the left turning thing, it scratches that itch. I don't know that it's worth changing the direction for an established class with pretty good equipment support.

The only time there is any issue with the lefties is in open water, they need their own open water sessions. It's not a big deal, the organizer just needs to plan for it.

Just my .02

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I think the Snowman is right there. A little wheel time turning the other way and it doesn't really make a big difference. Driving is driving. It seems worth it if it doesn't eliminate the possibility of crossover. It would be a shame not to even try it when you're talking about decisions being made for the very beginnings of 1:10 scale racing in your area. It's a different experience, but I think it would be well worth it in the long run if you don't make it that much harder to easily allow sharing of the class. I could see it a bigger issue if you'd already established the class years ago and there were many people invested in it. We have a few different clubs out west that run this class. A couple run it exclusively. Sure, we have small differences between club motor specs and variances in little rule things here and there, but even the clubs who run several other classes that turn right, decided that they would turn left when they adopted 1:10 scale as a class. It comes down to the priorities of the racers in your area. If they are not at all interested in ever racing outside of your area, then I suppose it doesn't matter, but if they knew that others have done it and that challenges brought up have been overcome easily by others, would they make the same decision. You have to weigh the pros and cons, but I hope you share with them what you've learned from others who have been through this already and can share what they've learned. It's not surprising that people would shy away from something that seems new and scary. It's why we tend to do things the way we've always done them and turn a blind (or at least inexperienced) eye to things. It's the easier path in the short term. You have to ask yourselves where you want this class to be able to do for your members over the next ten years, not ten months and plan ahead. It would be hard to grow the class outside of your area, if that's one of your members' long term ambitions, if you don't turn the same way that most everyone else does in that class. It's probably the same reason that die hard 1:8 scale racers don't turn left when they know that the only thing keeping them from doing so now is that it would go against what is already established and has been since the 70's. IMO, they won't be really scale until they turn left, but I can understand why they don't. I could only imagine how unpopular and isolated the group that drives a proposal to change 1:8 scale to left hand turning would be. I'm sure it's been talked about, but I don't see a scenario where that happens. Heck, even when they started running FE 1:8 scales, they decided to turn right! Maybe when the electrics in that class run separately, someone will decide to mandate that they turn left. I'm not sure the nitro guys will ever follow suit. I got off track there a bit, but hopefully you see what I'm saying and that it gives some perspective to your decision making process.

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Originally Posted by Coug90

Who would have thought my old Gale V would make it out to be with theirs. I'm gonna save those pics if you don't mind. I might even post one on my web site if that's ok too. Thanks for making my day. I'm just a scale hydro geek at heart

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That's 100% fine with me Mitch.
I have been collecting a lot of old memorabilia with my pride and joy being an original Seattle newspaper from when she won the 1955 Gold Cup. My plan is to put together a display area which will tell the history of the boat along with fun memorabilia (such as photos, pins and match books) and an area to mount/hang the 1:10 Gale V. I'll have the ability to remove her from the display for racing. It was so awesome to go meet Bill and talk about the boats. Thanks you for passing this wonderful boat along to me. You can trust that I also get and appreciate the essence of scale racing and I love the Detroit history of this boat. Glad that helped make your day. Have a good one, Mitch.

I have been watching this thread sense I got home from the D-12 race this past weekend. I met Mr. Ferrette this past Friday at the race in Centerville Va. He was displaying his 1/10 scale hydro that he was building and that really caught my attention. It caught my attention so much that on Saturday I brought out my 1/10 scale Miss Thriftway that I built back in 2016. This boat and its sister boat the Miss Wahoo were the first boats I have built sense the late 70s.

I soon discovered after finishing these two boats that the 1/10 scale boats were very popular on the west coast and not as popular on the east coast, at least not in IMPBA D-12. I ended up racing my Miss Wahoo boat in Q Sport Hydro in 2017 because it was too long to run in P-hydro. Sense then I have built three LSG boats and have been racing them along with the Q Sport Hydro the past couple of years here in D-12.

I was very glad to hear that Mr. Ferrette is exploring the potential of 1/10 scale FE here in D-12. Sense this past weekend reading all the posts and reading the NAMBA 1/10 scale FE rules for both vintage and modern hydroplane, I see where both sides of the discussion have valid positions. When I was asked if I preferred to run 1/10 scale FE turning left or right I said I prefer to turn right. This is because this is how I have always run boats. Now after the discussion here I am defiantly open to giving both directions a try.

I started a modern 1/10 scale kit from ML boat works to build the 96 Pico American Dream boat. I am about half way through the build and do not have the deck covered. My intention is to do as Mr. Ferrette putting reinforcement in both sponsons to allow for turn fins for left and right turns. I also am going to setup my Miss Thriftway boat with a vintage turn fin on the left sponson for left turns.

I propose that between the two of us and maybe one or two others in D-12 we may have enough interest to do some exhibition heats either at test and tunes or at some of the D-12 races next year turning left and right. It is quite possable that the left turn could catch on, only trying it and seeing what driver opinion is will tell.

I know one thing, the fact that there is interest in 1/10 scale FE here in D-12 has reignited my interest in what I also think is one of the neatest looking boats on the water in real life and RC.

I have to admit, turning left sounded stupid to me when these guys started it way back when. It's just different. Makes it even more of an eye catcher. People stop what they're doing to watch them go. I hate having to CD those heats because I lose my head and forget what I'm doing.

For us, limiting the turn fin keeps the hulls kinda sorta running like their full sized counterparts. My opinion. All the quirks of the full sized boats exist in the scale renditions. You can make up for some sins with a curved fin. It's rare for a boat to be gobs faster than anyone else too. You can't really engineer yourself into a ton of extra speed. Some sure but power is limited, the hulls design is the hulls design, and your fin can't hold the turn any better than anybody else. There are still tweaks but not major stuff like with a sport where somebody finds a bunch of speed and the lapping ensues.

We're racing of course....they're race boats..........but....there's something more to it. It's that realism I think. Not sure I can express what I'm getting at. Something about that class is cool. It's not uncommon to see two or three boats coming up the front straight together. You guys are gonna dig it no matter which way you turn.

Well I just ordered some reverse props and reverse flex shafts and a vintage turn fin from OSE. Looks like I am going to give turning left a try. I may have things set up on my Miss Thriftway for the open water on 09/14 at Fort Richie Md.

Does Mike at ML cut a atlas VL kit for 1/10th scale? I prefer modern but I also prefer less work building.

I'll check his site. It's most likely one of the prettiest non-modern hydros to me.

If I dive into this, I'll need some mentoring.... ....Terry?
\
Here it is.. $100,not bad! http://woodrcboatkits.com/index.php/...-mhr-7701.html

Maybe if I can talk to my import buddy... ...supposedly the Canadian government is going to lift the duties and taxes on consumer purchases however hell could freeze over first, lol...

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Originally Posted by ray schrauwen

Does Mike at ML cut a atlas VL kit for 1/10th scale? I prefer modern but I also prefer less work building.

I'll check his site. It's most likely one of the prettiest non-modern hydros to me.

If I dive into this, I'll need some mentoring.... ....Terry?
\
Here it is.. $100,not bad! http://woodrcboatkits.com/index.php/...-mhr-7701.html

Maybe if I can talk to my import buddy... ...supposedly the Canadian government is going to lift the duties and taxes on consumer purchases however hell could freeze over first, lol...

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Ray gotta tell ya Mike's kits rock, hardest thing about them is waiting for glue to dry so you can keep going. I'll tell you the same thing I'm recommending to folks in and around my area, since this is just getting going and we haven't locked down left or right turning put a turn fin backer on both sides. :cool:

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Originally Posted by don ferrette

Ray gotta tell ya Mike's kits rock, hardest thing about them is waiting for glue to dry so you can keep going. I'll tell you the same thing I'm recommending to folks in and around my area, since this is just getting going and we haven't locked down left or right turning put a turn fin backer on both sides. :cool:

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Thanks Don.

I misunderstood the scale section at ML. the kits are just frames right? He has the option to add skins and timbers.

Just lost interest in P Sport and Spec Sport. I'll have to sell a few boats to get this project going. Actually, since I've been out of racing, these classes have gotten so fast that I think I'd have a hard time coming close to keeping up. Scale is more gentleman like and the older I get, the more I like that sort of thing.

Still need to rig up the GP265 and the RSX310 rigger I built... Too many Irons... I'll get them done for 2019 season.

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Originally Posted by Coug90

This is absolutely one of the most interesting threads I've come across in a very long time. It's always fun to see what folks are building and talking about in 1:10 scale. I don't have much patience when it comes to politics, but I love racing 1:10 scale. I've done it exclusively for over 25 years now and I still love it. Out here in WA, where scale racing started, it's so much about the history of the real unlimiteds. I love the idea of more racers getting into 1:10 scale in other parts of the country and world. IMO, they are just about a perfect fit in size and affordability. I can tell you that turning left was as important to me as the fact that the FE boats don't have to be toss started while running. I grew up having seen real hydroplanes run and I was hooked when I saw a 36" hydro get on plane from a standstill. Once I got on the water with my first boat and got enough confidence and skill to go deck to deck with other scale boat and sliding through corners on the small skid fin, I couldn't imagine doing it any other way. It's not surprising to me that people who have experienced only turning right in other classes would tend to want to continue that when faced with something new. Yes, I will always want to see scale hydroplanes turning left. Yes, I always wondered why 1:8th scale racers haven't started turning left now that they are not so limited in prop selection. IMO scale racing takes a commitment to something other than the people that race. It's a commitment to the history of the real boats. That's hard to do when you're just starting out and it may not be popular. Is turning left a deal-breaker for some, maybe. Maybe you build a few boats first, try turning left in a few experimental or exhibitions. Maybe it won't be as big of a deal as anticipated. I know we have a different connection to history and maybe some have never seen event a video of a real unlimited race from the 50's or 60's but why not try it if it's easy to change over if you don't like it? At least then you know that you have a chance that there could be some crossover with other hobbyists if the majority are turning left in 1:10 scale. It doesn't sound like you'd be risking much by starting out that way and seeing how it goes before locking in on making it a formal class and solidifying a rules package. Anyway, it's nice to see 1:10 scale being talked about. I've never dealt with IMPBA, so I won't speak to it's bad relationship history with NAMBA. Let's see some more boats! Let me know if there is anything I can do to help with a build. I'm working on some parts for the 83 Renault and a 92 Coors dry build right now for some guys on this thread.

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Mitch, got the scale parts today for the 83 Renault build...they look great! Nice job on the plug...cowl looks great!!! Thanks for spending some time on that!! Allison engine parts are really nice as well!!

Thank you!
-Kent

Looking for some suggestions regarding motor and prop choices for 1/10 scale. I have tried an Aquacraft 36-56 1800Kv motor with a CNC 3814-R prop in my Miss Thriftway and it didn't go well. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Bruce Price
hope to be 1/10 scale boat racer.


https://forums.offshoreelectrics.com...1&d=1535328284

Thats not enough prop even for the 1800.

Try the 1500kv proboat motor and a CNC 4714R. Once you get the boat freed up you can likely prop up from there.

I have been working on my 1/10 scale modern. I am attempting to build the 1997 Pico American Dream boat. This is my first attempt at making my own fiberglass cowlings. I am also initially setting the boat up to turn left but as Don is doing I am putting an aluminum plate on the right sponson just in case.

Here are a coupe more shots of the running gear.