This will be applicable to the Michigan Cup also for those planning to attend.
It defines M spec, offshore, and 10th scale as none of those exist in IMPBA.
Attachment 149913
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This will be applicable to the Michigan Cup also for those planning to attend.
It defines M spec, offshore, and 10th scale as none of those exist in IMPBA.
Attachment 149913
I like the 8 lap offshore rule.:buttrock:
Not that I have a horse in the race but, why 1700kv instead of 1800kv limit in 1/10th scale? That rules out the use of a Aquacraft 1800kv motor which was being used previously and people may still may have?
Just curious
Terry
Any word yet from TP on there change of the length of the 3630 Motor??
We know that it is the same motor, they just made the can longer.
Larry
Ball,
The 1800kv motor was never approved for 1/10 scale. Only the blue 1700kv motor was approved. That is why we chose to stay within that kv limit
Yep, it relies on a degree of honesty too. We wont be out there KV testing to prove it's right. The class only exists on MMEU water so no worries I think. We'll see how it settles out but that Dynamite1500 is so good in scale I can't see anything working better. Great torque for what are typically boats with a lot of surface to free up.
Larry, I'm pretty sure they ask you now which can you want when you order the TP. Steve, might have the right ones on the shelf too. He knows the deal on them.
BTW, I wouldn't say there was any noticeable advantage to the TP over the Dynamites in Phoenix. That's not to say there wont or can't be. We just didn't find it yet. I know I was less concerned about prop choice over the old 2030 can when running the 1950 TP. Might be some more speed there with some prop work but haven't gotten there yet.
Will there be any 1/8 scale legislation? Like motor, hull type, prop size. FE T- hydro worked well at the CanAm, of course that leaves the door open for just about anything. We all new it was for FE 1/8th scale.
open motors for scale Jay. Flier is done. Just getting the sanction right. Then I'll post it.
Sorry. I stand corrected. No 1/8 scale for the cup.
I think what should be done is offer both 1/8 Scale and T FE Scale and go with the class with more sign ups.
Nope. Done with it. Let it die off.
Murderer!
So, Jay Moffat brought this to my attention, and I made a mistake. The 1/8 scale motor rules are subject to technical check. It is an MMEU race, and Terry is the CD so he can bend the rules accordingly. This is not a nationals, so the motors do not need to be checked.
Why not just call it S+T Sport hydro??
Larry
Sure would like to see the 1/8 scales at the cup race. Even if its just following the IMPBA motor rules. Why not put it out there and see if we get enough signed up.?? As said above if there are others with different setups run a T-Sport. I hate seeing this 1/8 scale just sitting in the garage and not being able to race it. The cup race was the only place that I could race it and now we're going to eliminate it. Can we talk about this?? What is the reason behind eliminating the class? Don't understand......
Too much controversy. Not having the debate any more.
There are 4 of these in the district that ever race. Only one is legal. None of those traveling are legal.
There are three boats in the club that are legal. All the boats traveling for the cup are legal except for one.
None are registered but one and even if they were it is not possible to verify as there is no list of registered boats on planet earth. Compliance to all of the rules can not be verified under any circumstances. It is not possible.
Then this issue should have been voted on by the club.
Excluding mine that leaves 1 voting member with a scale.
Talk to Tom and Kevin. Maybe they'll ask for count of guys that want to run scale.
About the 62mm X 36mm rule
Do these motors fit the rule?? ( the bearing sticks out 1.5mm out the front of the can, but the can is 36mm X62mm)
http://www.lehner-shop.com/Inrunner/.../1930::37.html
Click on more images to see the*!**measurements.*!**
One of the guys in Florida is running one and blowing the rest of them away, and the rest of the guys in the club are quitting the stock classes because they refuse to spend $300.00 US on a stock class motor.
Maybe a $ limit is in order??
Double price of a TP is $160.00 USD
Larry
Yep. Legal. Believe it when I see it.
Again, we will absolutely revisit this at the end of the season to assess exactly this type of thing. If something is killing everyone and not by a little we'll be looking closer.
Really tough to do a dollar limit but we may have no choice at some point. Maybe max MSRP from the source. No sale pricing. If a company really wanted to (say like Neu) they could release a motor just for these classes and set the MSRP as necessary. Then totally own the classes.
Larry, what clubs are running this spec in Florida? I thought they were all NAMBA down there.
Lehner Basic XXL fits too. Little cheaper.
I just don't buy that these high zoot motors will provide enough advantage to justify investing in them. You still have to have a boat that travels and turns under 34" in length.
Guys have been putting V8's in Vegas for decades. Fun going straight.
I would think the Lehner would be even less likely to screw around with their lengths. but it's possible. Pretty sure Todd has some in the mail somewhere and I know for sure that Kevin burned one up this past weekend. Wrong wind. I'll have him measure his.
More curiosity than anything... I would hate to see someone pull the trigger on a quality motor and have it be .05mm over the limit. Although, I was looking at those motors too.
Yeah, Lehner motors are great motors but they require a different approach.
Kevin was using a TP in his Promarine kitty and just swapped in the Lehner of the same Kv. Same prop. Same everything. Ran 4 laps and baked it. With them being only 2 pole and the kv on the Lehner being rated under load it doesn't surprise me that it wouldn't be a direct swap. We would need either a bit lower kv Lehner or less prop and let it wind out. If you think back to the N2 Sport days (2008 maybe?), I was running a 5000kv Lehner with a tiny little prop.
I "think"..........it's still going to come down to the same thing it always does. The setup and can you drive that setup.
But like we've been saying. Let's put a season on it and see if we're headed the right direction........... or................NOT headed the right direction for that matter. It's going to require that we're all honest about the results we see.
If you get it without the cooling fan it's way under the limit.
Terry
The club in Florida that is a NAMBA club that is running the Can Size rule set, the same as your club.
West Florida Model Boat Club
You can find the conversation on their Facebook page.
The person with the boats in question is a distributor for Lehner.
Larry
Do what most other racing organizations do. Unfair advantage just BAN IT! Lose one guy instead of a bunch. or Just some how limit them. less prop or add weight. Most forms of racing penalize somehow when someone has an advantage. I do still want to see it. The TP Motors are pretty good. Set-up and Balance is the key.
Good point Howard. There seems to always be one or two that make waves (no pun intended) It is our club that Larry made reference to. West Florida Model Boat Club. I have submitted a club rule to consider for LSO class of motor size limited to 36 X 62.2 mm and price cap of $100. This should keep the playing field on an even keel. It would be a shame to see the LSO class die in our club as there are a lot of LSO boat owners here.
I still feel we should have gone with the 37mm x 61mm limit which would have ruled out the Lehner with a built-in fan.
End of the day... I really hope we don't go down the road of putting a price limit in our rules.
As Terry knows, I am changing out my motors to Neu 1412s. These are supposed to be 36.5mm x 61mm per spec drawings, however per Steve Neu they have been putting the 1412s in a 1415 can which measures 68.6mm long. On special request basis with a quantity of 5 or more order, Steve is willing to get them into the proper can. I ordered some and he actually ended up fitting them into a 56mm long can. These cost $230 each and are available in several different winds which include: 3D/1650kv, 1.5Y/1850kv, and 2.5D/2050kv.
My goal is dependability and longevity. I’m not looking to push the limits of these motors. I want to be competitive with the TPs that are being pushed to their limits without having to worry about spending $80 to replace blown motors 2 or 3 times a season. That's over my 3 boats, not 2 or 3 motors in each boat.
And I do accept that I'm still a newbie and probably blow out more motors then those more experienced with setting up a boat properly. But from my standpoint as a newer guy... I'm sick of spending so much on motors while trying to get my boats competitive. It's frustrating an expensive. I propose that a higher priced motor will actually be the better method for new people to get involved and be competitive without spending hours upon hours at the pond and/or spending more on replacement motors.
With that said... I know their will be some that want to push and limits. I just hope they don't ruin it for those of use who want to spend the money for dependability.
You know what's odd to me? I've had more trouble with my open P setups this past year than I have with my old limited boats. 2 broken or battered 1527. Go figure. Very few failures for Ty and I in limited. I baked a TP 2070 in AZ but that was because I forgot that it was the 2070 in the boat. I was supposed to swap it out for the 1950 and forgot. Too much going on. Then I prop'd up like I had a 1950 and fr'shizzled it.
I'm really anxious to see all these motors running together in truth.
We have.......
TP's of various winds
Neu's of various winds
Lehners of various winds.
AQ 2030's
AQ1800's
PB 1500's
That 1500 is still a beast of a motor by the way. We raced some in AZ. The 1500's were every bit as fast as our TP motors and in some cases faster. Ray's Whip is crazy fast.
The Lehner is a killer motor but there is a reason some of us went to Neu back in 2008 or so for heat racing. There is no way around the torque factor on the small motors. When you get into the giant 30 series motors with lots of rotating mass it's a bit different. Again, we'll see.
I have to remember to put together a spreadsheet for our club races to see what's winning. I could keep track of each heat.
Lehner 1930
I'll be running my AQ2030's until they blow! :laugh:
The NAMBA club in Florida just changed there rule set for Spec classes on SUN.
Dia - 36.3mm
Length 61.2mm
For this year max $100.00
Larry
Begs some questions Larry...
How many races have they run with the new spec? I mean, its March. How many races can there have been? Is the Lehner winning every heat? Every spec class? Sounded like just LSO. I can't find their race results but I didn't look super hard either. So maybe 2 races. 2 flights maybe x 3 rounds x 2 races is maybe 12 heats. Lehner won them all? So much so that guys are quitting the class over one guy winning?
I read their FB thread a little. Reads like one guy was getting 58 on the GPS and they pulled the plug. 58 down the straight doesn't always equate to wins. Sounds like I'm being ultra critical. I don't mean to be like that. Just seems premature to me from the outside looking in. We'll run it all summer before we pull the plug. We have 5 classes running the size limit to glean information from. Should be 180+ heats without the Cup to gather information from.
I also saw on there where Stancomb was trying desperately to point out that his motor was legal for NAMBA. He likely will meet the production requirements for inclusion but that is just the requirements that allow a CD to deem it legal for a single event. Doesn't make it NAMBA legal. Means "the CD has the discretion to allow the following......." Blahblahblah. That's what the rule was for. Since Dave wrote it and I proposed it I can tell you that was the intent. In case I never mentioned it before. I think we blew it. Hind sight.
So technically for NAMBA, the new Promarine motor would need to be proposed, voted on, and passed to get added to the list. Once that happens it would be accepted as "legal" at every venue. Not just where a CD's allowed it. Sucks but that's the law.....so to speak.
With this new approach he won't have to do any of that horse bleep. Neither will anyone else that spits out a new offering. If it fits it's legal. That's the idea. You've all heard this before. haha
A max MSRP may/might/could well be part of our future on these but I'll reserve judgment on that until we've had more time with it. I really appreciate our gang (and other...gangs?) taking the chance on it both with their efforts and in some cases their wallets. Experimenting with custom wind Neu's, high end Lehners, and a bushel basket of TP winds is pricey experimenting. That part also sucks.