Is the Venom Segad worth getting ?

Hello, I very new to the forum.

I had considered getting the Venom King of Shaves ....... but believe they have brought a "new and improved" boat called the Segad (also looks nicer colour wise).

Has anybody had any experience with the Segad and KOS who could outline the differences and preferences.

I was considering adding a twin motor boat to the flotilla. The dragon boats saga is impossible to get in Australia (Venom is at least an easy mail order from the USA, because none of the local shops have the KOS or Segad or can even get them, USPS is a saviour).

What is the best version of the "breed" the KOS, segad or Dragon Saga ?
What head aches am I buying with these twin motor boats (love my Proboat Mystic, great finish, great build, great value)
how will they perform compered to my Mystic in terms of speed and handling ?
I pressume twin motor, more speed ..... better weight distribution, etc.

I've have a 56" Segad for over a year now. They're beautiful and relatively strong builds & fast when setup right. But they are easy to roll over. Like most of the Chineese FE boats out there, it's a good idea to add a 1" strip of fiberglass tape with vinylester or epoxy resin on the inside of the sponson seams. The hull can, & probably will, crack along the outboard sponson seams if you don't. If you want a boat that is strong & fast, it's hard to beat Aeromarine Sprint/Offshore cats. The're strong, fast & handle with the best out there.

For a FE twin motored cat, I recommend getting an Apparition Cat from Hobby King. I did, and the hull is very well built (won't need reinforcement), includes installed twin motors, drives, cooling tubings/fittings, props, & rudder assembly. Pretty too. I liked the twin so much I ordered a single motor version for a SAW build. See the attached pics. and/or visit Hobby King's website. Very well built, fast, pretty and will cost you less than $250 shipped. JIM

The ekos, segad and dragon hobby saga are all the same hulls. Dragon hobby makes the hulls for Venom. The ekos v2 with the outrunners is going to be the same electronics in the Segad. The hull itself is not 34' like posted it's 32" and similar size to the apperiatin. The hulls themeself aren't that bad, are they on the level of the Mystic or Miss Geico not even close. I do feel that the hulls (including the apperation) are all better as single drive hulls where you can move the batts to the sponsons and handle turns better. They do make decent saw boats. For the price and IMHO you better off getting the bare TFL hobbies apperation hull from Ben @ fightercatracing.com labeled as the rivercat. That in a nice single motor setup would be a decent JMHO

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Originally Posted by JIM MARCUM

Attachment 65658Attachment 65659Attachment 65660I've have a 56" Segad for over a year now. They're beautiful and relatively strong builds & fast when setup right. But they are easy to roll over. Like most of the Chineese FE boats out there, it's a good idea to add a 1" strip of fiberglass tape with vinylester or epoxy resin on the inside of the sponson seams. The hull can, & probably will, crack along the outboard sponson seams if you don't. If you want a boat that is strong & fast, it's hard to beat Aeromarine Sprint/Offshore cats. The're strong, fast & handle with the best out there.

For a FE twin motored cat, I recommend getting an Apparition Cat from Hobby King. I did, and the hull is very well built (won't need reinforcement), includes installed twin motors, drives, cooling tubings/fittings, props, & rudder assembly. Pretty too. I liked the twin so much I ordered a single motor version for a SAW build. See the attached pics. and/or visit Hobby King's website. Very well built, fast, pretty and will cost you less than $250 shipped. JIM

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I had alook at the HobbyKing Apparition, yes, $250 shipped, need own esc ($150 pair for 2x 70 amp) and an RC (well receiver anyway....)
There isn't much price difference once it's in the water between the Apparition or the Segad ...... what is the better boat is the puzzle ?

P.S .... glad to know I'm not the only person adding resin to RTR boats .... I also put high rate expanding foam in the bow just to make the boat more rigid, doesn't seem to add weight or shift balance.

Resin & glass tape on the seams always makes our FE boats stronger, veejo. It's a lot more fun than repairing seam cracks later. I disagree with Diesel6401 on hull strength. I don't know about the smaller Seagad, but it took hitting a boulder sideways at 50 MPH to crack the hull's seam on my 56" Segad. I also have ProBoat's Miss GEICO & Blackjack, and they are both weak in the hull joint seams. The Miss Geico is the best handling of three. Haven't ran the Apparition twin yet, but I've seen several videos on them including a single VS twin motor version. It was a draw in both speed & handling. I ordered the Apparition single motor version cuz it's a hell of a lot easier to work on, and with the right setup it should be a good SAW boat, that in milder tune make a good fun boat.

Using foam to reduce flex & hull strength is a great idea. Daren Jordan, the designer of the Miss GEICO for ProBoat, suggested I put two part poly urethane - in stages - in the forward part of the hull to help it stay together. That was after I hit a turtle, crashed & split the hull at the LA SAWs.

As to which boat to buy, you have a good handle on how to strenghten a hull. So buy whatever you like. It's all good. JIM

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Originally Posted by JIM MARCUM

Resin & glass tape on the seams always makes our FE boats stronger, veejo. It's a lot more fun than repairing seam cracks later. I disagree with Diesel6401 on hull strength. I don't know about the smaller Seagad, but it took hitting a boulder sideways at 50 MPH to crack the hull's seam on my 56" Segad. I also have ProBoat's Miss GEICO & Blackjack, and they are both weak in the hull joint seams. The Miss Geico is the best handling of three. Haven't ran the Apparition twin yet, but I've seen several videos on them including a single VS twin motor version. It was a draw in both speed & handling. I ordered the Apparition single motor version cuz it's a hell of a lot easier to work on, and with the right setup it should be a good SAW boat, that in milder tune make a good fun boat.

Using foam to reduce flex & hull strength is a great idea. Daren Jordan, the designer of the Miss GEICO for ProBoat, suggested I put two part poly urethane - in stages - in the forward part of the hull to help it stay together. That was after I hit a turtle, crashed & split the hull at the LA SAWs.

As to which boat to buy, you have a good handle on how to strenghten a hull. So buy whatever you like. It's all good. JIM

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How do you disagree when you yourself said you don't know about the smaller verison? The 56" is a different hull completly, it's gonna need to be thicker to handle the weight of the gas engine and the pure size. It's comparing apples to oranges.

With the price and the hull for what it is, it's cheaper to build and use better equipment. The stock esc's are 60 amp seaking that most people sale for $50 or so, venom want's over $100 for them. The market up is crazy

I have 3 Venom boats,
Segad Gas
EKOS C1
EKOS P1
these boat rock, the scale paint and looks are killer.. that is the reason I bought them, and Venom support is the best I have seen.

I have not added any fiberglass or taped up the hull... I had zero issues...

if you want a nice boat there are many to choose from, if you want a scale boat, painted like a real boat and based on a the same hull as a real boat your choices are less.

The Proboat Geico is a prime example, great handling but does not look like a real boat. Far too wide to be scale.

Next people will tell you the king of shaves / segad flip easy, well a lot of that is in the setup, and also, real boats slow when making a corning, something the miss geico does not have to do.

So if you enjoy, non scale looking boats, and boats you can just drive around wide open all the time, then I would look at proboat Miss Geico.

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Originally Posted by Hoverdown3k

I have 3 Venom boats,
Segad Gas
EKOS C1
EKOS P1
these boat rock, the scale paint and looks are killer.. that is the reason I bought them, and Venom support is the best I have seen.

I have not added any fiberglass or taped up the hull... I had zero issues...

if you want a nice boat there are many to choose from, if you want a scale boat, painted like a real boat and based on a the same hull as a real boat your choices are less.

The Proboat Geico is a prime example, great handling but does not look like a real boat. Far too wide to be scale.

Next people will tell you the king of shaves / segad flip easy, well a lot of that is in the setup, and also, real boats slow when making a corning, something the miss geico does not have to do.

So if you enjoy, non scale looking boats, and boats you can just drive around wide open all the time, then I would look at proboat Miss Geico.

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The reason the Geico handles so good is because its not completly scaled and is wider. Pro Boat stated that's why they did it that way for better performence and it paid off, that's why the the MG and Mystic hulls race and win as much as they do! Its not that the Ekos and Segad flip easily, they run great in the straights, but can't turn worth beans because of the narrowness typically spin or roll over. Its not as much as the hull but the batts being centered and higher up. Lowering the batts in the sponsons help (that's why single motor versions handle better then twins, but its still not a good as handling as a stock MG. That's why they don't make the best race boats.

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk 2

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Originally Posted by Diesel6401

The reason the Geico handles so good is because its not completly scaled and is wider.

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Hmmm, I already wrote that....

"The Proboat Geico is a prime example, great handling but does not look like a real boat. Far too wide to be scale."

If you like to race non scale looking boats that is great, I like scale looking stuff and i don't race, the same is with rc cars, the scale stuff.. well it handles and tips like a real car would,
the fantasy based cars and trucks handle much better when running wide open around the whole track.

I like to drive my models, not just go wide open the whole time..

but if you are into racing, then I would suggest building a boat from the hull up, you pick everything that way and get the best handling and speed.

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Originally Posted by Hoverdown3k

Hmmm, I already wrote that....

"The Proboat Geico is a prime example, great handling but does not look like a real boat. Far too wide to be scale."

If you like to race non scale looking boats that is great, I like scale looking stuff and i don't race, the same is with rc cars, the scale stuff.. well it handles and tips like a real car would,
the fantasy based cars and trucks handle much better when running wide open around the whole track.

I like to drive my models, not just go wide open the whole time..

but if you are into racing, then I would suggest building a boat from the hull up, you pick everything that way and get the best handling and speed.

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Yea I know u just wrote that. What I'm saying is it was done on purpose for a reason. Most boaters rather it be slightly off scale but run better and it runs better much then the any of the venom hulls. They could have scaled it and it would have been a turd. Also not running a boat at wot is a good way to smoke a esc! Fine and dandy on a car, plane or heli... do it in a boat consistant enough and oneday poooooooof goes the esc

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk 2

100% agree, they designed that boat as RC first, that is why the proportion are off from a real boat, but it was done this way for one reason, to handle better, 100% agree.

No one said anything about not running 100% throttle, the only time you don't is when turning or sharply turning.

Not sure I would have fun with my finger planted 100% throttle the whole time, no skill needed and that gets boring to me. Notice I said "ME" I am sure many other get a kick out of
running flat out the whole time, regardless of turning or waves.

Any ESC not running at 100% creates more heat, they have various ways to cool them. I have not had any ESC overheating issues from slowing down to turn or corner.

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Originally Posted by Hoverdown3k

No one said anything about not running 100% throttle, the only time you don't is when turning or sharply turning.

Not sure I would have fun with my finger planted 100% throttle the whole time, no skill needed and that gets boring to me. Notice I said "ME" I am sure many other get a kick out of
running flat out the whole time, regardless of turning or waves.

Any ESC not running at 100% creates more heat, they have various ways to cool them. I have not had any ESC overheating issues from slowing down to turn or corner.

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Originally Posted by Hoverdown3k

I like to drive my models, not just go wide open the whole time..
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You just confused the hell outta me. Read what u wrote. One paragraph you don't like to run 100%, next paragraph no one said anything about running 100%. Slowing down in the turns in normal and not an issue you said you go wide open the whole time. Indicating less the wide open throttle more then just in the turns. Not sure what u mean or how u drvie, I'm just saying less then wide open throttle for expended periods of the run slowing down in the turns isn't an issue or letting off at the signs of a blow over its the putting around that's kills an esc.

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk 2

Very simply, I do not run wide open throttle the whole time, I slow down when I turn the boat...

From what you have typed I gather you like to run 100% throttle the whole time, meaning in turns as well.

Did not mean to confuse anyone, but that is what "I" do... I slow down when turning, so I do not run wide open the whole time.

You might only need a radio controlled on/off switch, instead of the ESC.. could save you cash too... :)..Just joking! :)

You guys crack me up.:laugh: In the 60s, we raced slot cars with only a thumb operated on/off click switch. No pressure= OFF, press down= 100% ON. Even back then you would lift your thumb for a nano-second - OFF - before entering the turns, then full ON in the turn & straights. Got into racing R/C offroad buggies & trucks in the late 70s and, just like full scale racing, you hit the brakes before you enter a turn to set up a drift and roll on the throttle in the turn, then 100% as you exit. That's what drifting is all about.

Full sized Offshore cat racers & FE RC cat boaters enter & exit a turn in the same way. Same thing is true with on-road & off-road cars & motorcycles. None of this is NEWS. DUH! Simple physics.

In general, if the design of a RC model boat works well, that design translates up well into full scale boats. But, when you scale down the design of a full sized boat that handles great - especially catamarans - it dosen't always translate well. When Venom first tested a scaled down prototype of the Miss GEICO it did not handle well. Among other things, it was too narrow and rolled easily.:thumbdown: That's when Venom asked Darin Jordan to help modify the MG's design. As the designed evolved, it "resembled" the actual MG, but is not built to scale. The results speak for themselves. The FE MG is one of the best handling FE cat hulls in the Offshore P class available today.:thumbup1:

I think both the smaller FE version and the larger converted gas versions of the Segad & King of Shaves are beautiful. The Segad in particular. While neither are built to scale, they do share the slab-sided design of the actual race boats. And, just like the full sized Segad & King of Shaves race boats, both the FE & converted gas RC versions are solid in the straights, but both roll over easily it the turns. The FE & ex-gasser hulls have a great deal of potential as SAW racers. Exactly how much potential my big Segad has will be answered at Legg Lake in October's SAWs. JIM:spy:

PS: Darin, if I have your story wrong, feel free to bitch slap me & set the record straight.:bowdown:

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Originally Posted by Hoverdown3k

Very simply, I do not run wide open throttle the whole time, I slow down when I turn the boat...

From what you have typed I gather you like to run 100% throttle the whole time, meaning in turns as well.

Did not mean to confuse anyone, but that is what "I" do... I slow down when turning, so I do not run wide open the whole time.

You might only need a radio controlled on/off switch, instead of the ESC.. could save you cash too... :)..Just joking! :)

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I'm not trying to be mean, but are you reading what your writing and did you read my post at all. I'm not sure how you gatherd by my post that I must run full speed in the turns as well. I don't understand how you came to that assumption. I'll edit my post and highlight the area I'm talking about, this is why your making me confused.

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Originally Posted by Diesel6401

You just confused the hell outta me. Read what u wrote. One paragraph you don't like to run 100%, next paragraph no one said anything about running 100%. Slowing down in the turns in normal and not an issue you said you go wide open the whole time. Indicating less the wide open throttle more then just in the turns. Not sure what u mean or how u drvie, I'm just saying less then wide open throttle for expended periods of the run slowing down in the turns isn't an issue or letting off at the signs of a blow over its the putting around that's kills an esc.Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk 2

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hoverdown3k

Very simply, I do not run wide open throttle the whole time, I slow down when I turn the boat...

From what you have typed I gather you like to run 100% throttle the whole time, meaning in turns as well.
Did not mean to confuse anyone, but that is what "I" do... I slow down when turning, so I do not run wide open the whole time.

You might only need a radio controlled on/off switch, instead of the ESC.. could save you cash too... :)..Just joking! :)

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I don't know how you came to that assumption.




*unsubscribed*

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Originally Posted by JIM MARCUM

I think both the smaller FE version and the larger converted gas versions of the Segad & King of Shaves are beautiful.

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I agree, it is the best looking cat I have seen, I just got done upgrading to the new clutch system. can't wait to try this out. You must get some video if you race the Segad

I hope this week the weather is nice enough to test it out..

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Originally Posted by Hoverdown3k

I agree, it is the best looking cat I have seen, I just got done upgrading to the new clutch system. can't wait to try this out. You must get some video if you race the Segad

I hope this week the weather is nice enough to test it out..

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The Segad is beautiful and is great in a straight line (if you use an offset rudder), on corners not so much. Here's what happens if you use the original in-line rudder. JIM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPZGtssIXyQ

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Originally Posted by JIM MARCUM

The Segad is beautiful and is great in a straight line (if you use an offset rudder), on corners not so much. Here's what happens if you use the original in-line rudder. JIM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPZGtssIXyQ

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Wow Jim, that is a fast Segad... Looks like you are pushing it well beyond what most do, I can see why a offset rudder would be needed at those speeds. That Segad is FAST!!! :banana:

Great video! thanks for sharing.

Thanks Steve. It ran over 72 MPH at one of the SAWs last year with a single Leopard 5692 1040KV motor, a stock Octura prop, & inline strudder. Smoked my ESC when I put in a 1340KV. With an offset SAW rudder & the right prop It could match the current records - but these guys keep pushing the records up every year. Pretty sure Boyd will hit at least 95 MPH in S Offshore & break his current 82.698 MPH.in October. And Kevin will be looking to raise his 105.932 record.

I plan on having the Segad ready for the Oct. SAWs with two Leopard 5692 1040KV on 10S2P for Offshort T class, & a couple of 1340KVs on 8S2P for S Offshore. Target is 95+ MPH in S class & 110 MPH T class. The boat & setup can do it - It really depends on the props. JIM:Praying:

Jim, those are insane speeds, :ohmy: I never thought this hull was that capable, alot of setup and tuning is needed to achieve those speeds, well beyond a normal user.

I am amazed at your results. Please post some new video!!!! :rockon2:


:help:
What type of RC boat racing is done at those speeds?

OK..... Thumbs up,,,, Or thumbs down on the stock Segad C1 34in Brushless Boat???

The above disscussion mainly involves the gas version which is converted into FE. You are looking at the C1 34' twin drive cat which in my opinion looks beautiful.
So if I may give you my thoughts on this:
For looks---particularly scale looks= thumbs up
Thumbs down--- that depends your criteria: if you want speed and good performance with the stock components, then the thumb goes down.
If you just want to run the boat with 3s, the later version will do the job. I have the first version which alot of people had trouble because they ran with 4s, and even with 3s there was trouble I believe, I took caution and ran mine just stock and had zero problem. Since I knew what to expect ( or in this case what NOT to expect), I am very happy with this boat if only for her looks.

The last guy who posted a thread asking yes or no on this boat, bought one in a rush and found out its a slug. He sold it a week later. Cool looking boat, but not worth the money IMO.

I have something in the foe for sale fourm, but maily would like to trade for another boat or boats parts. He offer the Segad for an even trade, but hearing and reading alot of bad things about her........ HMMMMM

Answer to the question in the thread title is simply, NO.
For the $$ you have to put into it to get it to run proper, plus the headache for a newbie boater, there are far better choices.

Hi,
That is why he is probably selling it,
What do you have to trade or sell ?

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Originally Posted by mrproc1

I have something in the foe for sale fourm, but maily would like to trade for another boat or boats parts. He offer the Segad for an even trade, but hearing and reading alot of bad things about her........ HMMMMM

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I have a brand new in the box TRAXXAS rc funny car,, Im looking for a boat or boat parts