Mmeu 2017 supplement rules

[TRUCKPULL]

||||This is where Smock is supposed to read between the lines.||||

I need to fix it? Why me? I'm not doing enough for the organization already? Besides, I'm an idiot, I don't even know what "it" is !!

Doug because you have bigger shoulders then Terry.

Larry

[dethow]

My opinion: Keep it simple. Spec ONE motor. Something that is reasonable and robust. It instantly evens the play field which is the overall objective. Done deal.

If the goal is to even the play field then we would need to limit the prop and hull... prices, availability and modifications as well.
And many issues with "spec one motor". To many to even re-hash.

[Doby]

||||

Besides, I'm an idiot,

Well, the first step in getting better is admitting the truth to yourself

[dethow]

No matter what we do with this motor issue...
New guys will NEVER be able to walk into a NAMBA or IMPBA club and be able to compete with veterans. And new guys with a limited size Neu or Lehner motor will not compete with a veteran running an AQ, Proboat or TP with same size limit. Because we/they don’t have the boat and prop setup knowledge.

If clubs want more new guys, then clubs need to have classes for off the shelf boats only… with no mods. Like the MMEU SV27 class was. But that class got dated, slow and boring. Clubs need to provide a place where new guys can bring whatever they have and race all in one class with the only limit being no modifications from stock other than prop and battery choice. If they get drawn into the culture, they will then decide if they want to go spend the money to complete in other classes.

IOW... I'm saying everyone should please stop using the newbies as a reason to limit motors and/or costs. Limiting a motor to $100 is not going to bring a newbie in. Some racers are out there spending $65 to $80 on Snowman (Brian Buaas) props. Props are just as important as a motor and we’re basically telling a newbie that they need to go spend as much on a prop as that motor costs. I don’t hear anyone talking about price limits on props. Can’t because you are only handicapping the newbies there. The veterans don’t necessarily need a Brian Buaas prop. They know how to work their own. Letting a newbie go spend $65 to $80 on a prop is what helps them be competitive.

A newbie that really digs the culture and hobby of building and racing… will spend the money. As proven by the 4 most recent new members to MMEU. Myself, Dan, Kevin, and Chris have spent some big dollars over the past 24 months on both new boats and mods.

That's my quarters worth... Well more then the 2 cents I should have been allowed and for that I'm sorry.

[Doug Smock]

Doug because you have bigger shoulders then Terry.

Larry

Never noticed that. We'll have to get Ken to measure them in Atlanta.

Well, the first step in getting better is admitting the truth to yourself

Things are looking up.

[Doby]

Darin hit on my problem with 1/8 scale too. There are no motor limits or motor lists for any other IMPBA FE class. At all. Period. None. Length - cell count. That's it. Those are the limits in the existing IMPBA classes. Scale is the most difficult to build, the most technically complicated class, and requires the most experience to even contemplate. That class is not for newbies or for the faint of heart. So...............let's limit the tech. Stupid. Let the boats determine how fast they should go. Just like every other class. We don't put a "should go about this fast" to look right on an other classes. Some of those other classes get to obscene speeds so it's not safety. .

Exactly...any particular hull will have its speed limits based on its design (or lack thereof)..Still struggling with choosing a motor for my 1/8th....should be no motor limits.

[Doby]

Me to

[Darin Jordan]

Not sure, and don't frankly care, what the rest of the country, IMPBA, or NAMBA in general, is going to do regarding the topic of P-LTD Power Sytems...

OUR PSFEMBC club, here in the Puget Sound/Seattle area, voted in favor of running the very basic set of P-LTD Motor Rules that I drafted (merely as an example for discussion at the time...), and everyone thus far is fine with those. After a frank and involved discussion at our winter meeting, most of these "fears" were put to rest with reason, logic, and data.

I'm not pushing for a set of National rules on this. I've been asked to submit something; to push it up the chain for a vote, etc. Not going to happen from me. Been there, fought that. It's not worth it to me. 99% of the racing people do is in their OWN CLUBS. As long as our local club rules make sense, that's good enough for me. On the rare occasions where I get the opportunity to travel to an event, which likely will only be the Nationals this year, if I have boats that fit a class, I'll race. If I don't, I'll won't. Simple. Stress-Free as well.

The simple limiting of physical motor dimensions is clear, and makes perfect sense. It's a REAL limit, that doesn't require further discussion. It's ALL-Inclusive, and is completely, totally, and utterly FAIR to all competitors. We don't need KV limits, or cost limits, or weight limits, or color limits, or ONE-Motor limits... This ONE rule update solves it all. If your motor fits physically (Brushless Inrunner design, of course), it races. If your RTR comes with a motor that fits the limits, it races. If your motor is smaller than the limits, it races... If your motor is outside of the dimensions, it doesn't race... Done... NO need for further debate regarding this class, or any updating of the rules, again, ever... Everyone has an EQUAL OPPORTUNITY to be competitive.

There is, however, NO GUARANTEE of competitiveness. That's up to YOU, and YOUR efforts, knowledge, and skills. If a guarantee is what people are looking for, then they don't understand racing, and, frankly, aren't looking to "race"...

'MERICA!


P_LIMITED_RULE_COMPLETE.jpg

[ray schrauwen]

Just for curiousity sake, why no outrunners? I know the Suppo ones I like are a mm to large in diameter and shorter than the rules.

Is it because of the slight size difference or other factors.

Btw, I'm all in with a few old gold cans and the more efficient blue cans. Great price on eBay from time to time!

Thanks for all your hard work and the data you shared!

[Darin Jordan]

Just for curiousity sake, why no outrunners?

I originally had those considered, but after consulting with people way brighter and more successful than me, it was decided that it added too much additional variability. Just not worth the hassle for the very, VERY few who would actually want to have them included. Just not easy to equate them...

[Shooter]

If the goal is to even the play field then we would need to limit the prop and hull... prices, availability and modifications as well.
And many issues with "spec one motor". To many to even re-hash.

What I meant was to even the playing field regarding the motor. Let the hull design, prop, and set-up be the competitive part. That's what makes it fun. Trying to find the best motor that meets size rules is just one more variable taking away from the 'prop, set-up, and tweaking' that should define the spec class.

I guess I can't talk too much, I only made (2) races last year! :) I can't even vote on the club shirt color! :)

[Darin Jordan]

I originally had those considered, but after consulting with people way brighter and more successful than me, it was decided that it added too much additional variability. Just not worth the hassle for the very, VERY few who would actually want to have them included. Just not easy to equate them...

For reference, here was the original idea, before it evolved to where it is now. But, if you study motors, you'll see that this doesn't equate the inrunner vs. the outrunner to each other... IN other words, it's not a viable limit. Not Apples to Apples...

P_LITE_MOTOR_RULE.jpg

[T.S.Davis]

What I meant was to even the playing field regarding the motor.

That actually IS the idea. There is only so much power that can be transferred from the batteries to the water with a 37x62 in-runner. Sorry Darin, we rounded because the cans were fluctuating all over the place.

If we actually picked one single motor (right down to the model number) it would then require every person interested in what's supposed to be an entry level class to purchase a new motor for their brand new boats if they race. Then, how do you pick one? Straws? The choice would be endless and we would end up with something someone wanted and others didn't. Then you have the 1/8 scale problem. "Oh, I have to run that motor? Never mind. I'll got do something else with my money."

One motor doesn't level the playing field anyway. Batteries and speedo can make a difference. To identical boats. One with better batteries or a more efficient speedo and they're not equal anymore.

Guys need to stop fretting over which motor is best and focus on drive line, straight ride surfaces, edges you can hunt deer with, all these little tiny things add up. 1/8 mph here, 1/8 there and next thing you know you're faster than the guy with the same exact motor. Then learn to drive an oval instead of a peanut. I struggle with that every danged spring. Tight into turn one. Wide at the apex. Lane 6 on the exit. Then compensate until I'm pointed inside the course on the back straight. Now turn left to get back outside the back side entry pin. Have to relearn that every stink'n spring. That's where the racing happens. Not in which motor I picked.

[Shooter]

If we actually picked one single motor (right down to the model number) it would then require every person interested in what's supposed to be an entry level class to purchase a new motor for their brand new boats if they race. Then, how do you pick one? Straws?

This is the part I didn't think about. Very true. .....but is LSH really entry level? I've always thought of it as the F1 of our hobby!

[T.S.Davis]

No but limited cat, mono and offshore are. Sort of. They're good classes for newer guys and vets to coexist. Great place to teach and to learn.