P-Limited Motors - Im going to jump on the hot seat.

[Darin Jordan]

I'd ditch it. As Terry has mentioned, we were just trying to save time from the lengthy rule proposal process with that wording, in the event a "no-brainer" motor came out that matched those specs.

Gotcha... That's what I was hoping you'd say.

[rayzerdesigns]

I am regretfully making a post here. I have to side with the direction Darin is headed and agree with his reason for doing so, can length/dimensions and weight are easily verifiably. I do not feel like the cost is a huge issue, putting a cap is fine though. Interestingly batteries were brought up.
Here is a scenario, two identical boats, one with 5000 mah 60 c batteries (4s) the other with 5000 mah 35 c (also 4s). The boat with batteries more capable of delivering power is going to be faster, anywhere from 1-3 mph possibly more. This goes back to cost, the 60 c cells will typically be associated with a higher cost, so if the cost of batteries isn't hugely significant than why should the cost variation of the motors be an issue. Correct me if I'm wrong here but these are boats (bust out another thousand). We are on a scale level so lets scale that to bust out another hundred. Racing is a luxury not a necessity, if you can't afford it you can't afford it, no shame there.
Another scenario, lets say a motor makes it onto the "list" and it proves itself to be capable of making a p LTD cat do 57 mph (arbitrary number I made up), that is 10 mph faster than my fastest p ltd cat runs and 5-7 mph faster than razer's (Ray) cat (that thing is fast!!). In a vacuum the faster motor would win every time, but we don't race in a vacuum. I can't tell you how many times I've beat out faster boats because they were upside down, so why does it matter if another motor makes some other guys boat faster, he would likely be faster than you running the exact same motor as is the case already. I believe the goal is to have similar speeds, not exactly the same. Under the current rules we already have some racers in the low 40's and some in the low 50's, at least over here in D19 so again, what's the big deal if the "motor" makes the boat faster. I feel there are so many other variables involved with mph gains that the motor isn't going to be the deciding factor, given it falls within the specs Darin has outlined.

Lastly this is a drivers class if your boat is faster than mine but I stay in lane 1 and you are out in lane 5 guess who is going to win, the guy racing the shorter course. Lets say you don't nail the start, cut a buoy, etc. You are going to struggle to win the heat regardless of motor selection.

Im not sure I've actually said anything here so I'm about done. I personally have no issues with the current rule set, haven't burnt a motor in 2 seasons and have 4 spares I bought in anticipation of burning some. I finished 2nd in our club (SCSTA) racing last year (not district) and I'm sitting in 2nd for the 2015 race season I don't say this to impress you but to impress upon you that you don't have to be the fastest to be competitive. You do however need to time the start properly, stay in lane one or close to it, and last but certainly not least FINISH heats.

All that being said I'd vote in a new selection of motors, continue to race the ones off the old list and likely experience similar results.

dude..im bringing some paint and knowledge to your cat..lol..new cat is faster..more stable..but I do push things to limits..hopefully make it out to last scale race

[rayzerdesigns]

Yes, I have too much time on my hands...

Here is what a potential list of "approved" P-LTD Motors might look like if we combined TP, Leopard, TFL-SSS, and Typhoon together with our existing list.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]136172[/ATTACH]

I think that mayu be too many options..i would say 2 manufacures..maybe 6 total more motors..the tp does seem to be heavier than the others

[Darin Jordan]

I think that mayu be too many options..i would say 2 manufacures..maybe 6 total more motors..the tp does seem to be heavier than the others

I was just going off of Dave's recommendation of 3-manufacturers, with each of the KVs.

I added the SSS motors at the last minute, and I'm still checking to see if they have a 1500kv-ish motors for the list.

Cost is stepped... $60.00 for the Leopard, $85-ish for the TP, $115.00 for the Typhoon. Not clear on what exactly that means. I think it has more to do with the cost of WHERE the manufacturing takes place than anything else, but who knows.

The list is a little long, but it's seems pretty balanced to me. Certainly would take care of supply for awhile.

[GixerGuy1978]

About time to do some real testing of this 'proposed' list of motors. Better get on it Darin! Lol

[Darin Jordan]

Talked to Brian Buaas for a bit tonight and we agreed that the TYPHOON motors should come off the list. Their price and quality exceed the others and based off of Brian's testing with them, parity would be at risk.

That said, I also chatted with Monica at TFL and she is certain that they can supply a 1500KV to go along with their other two on the list. She thinks their price would be more in line with the Leopard as well.

I'll update the list and gather the SSS info as soon as she sends it to me.

[dethow]

I actually have the TFL SSS Motor catalog on my work computer, so I'll look at it tomorrow, but I was able to find these two online that would also fit:

TFL-SSS 3660/1600KV / 6,5D
TFL-SSS 3660/2000KV /5,5D

They may have more options too. Not sure how they compare. The two 2000KV motors I have in my Twin Cheetah seem to be decent quality.

I have a question and possible issue with these SSS motors. Where does one find them? I've been doing some searching of my known suppliers and just general searches on the net. I've yet to find a single SSS 3660 motor. I've found plenty of larger 3674 and 40mm whatevers, but no 3660s.
Edit: Well... I did find a 3660-2070kv and 2726kv.

I also saw your post about the Typhoons coming off the list. Unless I just don't know of a good source, I kind of like the idea of just the TP and Leopard additions due to ease of getting your hands on them.

[dethow]

Wondering what HobbyKing puts in the Pursuit Mono and Apparition Cat. Looks like both come with a 3660 1620kv. Neither calls it out as an SSS brand but based one photo of the Apparition this is an SSS motor while another shows a purple color can which is also what the photo of the Pursuit looks like. I've purchased an Ariane from them in the past that had an SSS motor. Pretty sure the Pursuit, Apparition and Ariane are being supplied to HobbyKing by TFL and should have an SSS motor in them.
I have a question out on the HK discussion area for these two boats to see if anyone can tell me what brand they are supplying in these boats.

We have several guys going over to Pursuits and we also now have 3 Apparitions in MMEU. It may not be a bad idea to include these 1620kv wind SSS motors, if they are indeed SSS brand. This would provide a couple current ARTR options that are VERY low cost.
Pursuit f/g hull with hardware and motor only costs $187.40 from USA warehouse.
Apparition f/g hull with hardware and motor only costs $194.59 from USA warehouse.

[Darin Jordan]

Another thing to consider.

Not every new RTR is going to be suitable for P-LTD.

However, as an example of how cool things have become... Pro Boat has just made possible a really nice Q-Mono / Q-Offshore boat. There is ALREADY a place to run this offering and compete.

The IM31 is a drop in to P-Mono and Offshore as well.

There are places to race these boats that already have rules flexible enough to fit them in.

[LuckyDuc]

... And growing those other classes is a good thing as well. I foreshadow a Q Ltd discussion in the future :-)

[Darin Jordan]

I foreshadow a Q Ltd discussion in the future :-)

Oh Goodness, NO!

Besides, Q isn't subscribed enough to warrant another version.

[donhuff]

Hey Darin,

I'm kinda in a good position here to do some testing and reporting. I am in the process of building up 4 identical P limited boats. I will outfit 2 with AQ motors, one with a Leopard and the last with a TP. I am interested in seeing the difference that the better motors make.http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/...108#post640108

I am an IMPBA member and race in Atlanta mostly. Doug Smock and I went to the Michigan cup this year and really enjoyed the limited mono and offshore classes, and added it to a couple of our grand prix series races. We have another race scheduled in a couple of weeks and I am trying to get these ready so that we can race them there.

[Darin Jordan]

Hey Darin,

I'm kinda in a good position here to do some testing and reporting. I am in the process of building up 4 identical P limited boats. I will outfit 2 with AQ motors, one with a Leopard and the last with a TP. I am interested in seeing the difference that the better motors make.http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/...108#post640108

I am an IMPBA member and race in Atlanta mostly. Doug Smock and I went to the Michigan cup this year and really enjoyed the limited mono and offshore classes, and added it to a couple of our grand prix series races. We have another race scheduled in a couple of weeks and I am trying to get these ready so that we can race them there.

Let us know what you find out. I suspect I already know, but it would be good to have more real-world data.

[Darin Jordan]

Just for fun, I snapped a picture this weekend of the three different sized Pro Boat motors that are available in their 4S and 6S RTRs...

20150830_144543.jpg


There is not a rule you could write that would provide "parity" between these motors. And, as you can see... any inclusion of motors 1 and 2 into "P-Limited" would create a serious case of "scope creep" for this class.

Better to leave these RTRs to go run in P-Mono/Offshore and in Q...

I received some additional info from TFL regarding their SSS motors (which I believe are the factory motors in the Pursuit Mono RTR packages from Hobbyking??). The owner of TFL has said it would not be a problem to add the 3660-1500KV option to their line of 36x60mm motors.

That would give three separate manufacturers, each with the three different KV options.

What would be needed now is to do some testing of the three different manufactures to see how they stack up.

[zooma]

Darin,

What about the 4 and 6 pole versions of the new Dynamite 2000kv motors?