NAMBA P-Ltd Motor discussion

[Darin Jordan]

Now nobody has a choice because there are only 2 left. One of the two I don't trust so that leaves just one motor.

There MAY be other options...

NAMBA Rulebook section 28.D.1.d.iii:

iii) In addition, the CD has the discretion to allow the following:

(a) An aftermarket motor that is a re-labeled and exact copy of any
approved motor.

(b) Any generational change of an approved motor, or a motor that
is used in a Ready To Run (RTR) offering from a manufacturer
that produces over 100 units of said offering, as long as there is
no more than a 5% increase in any of the following
manufacturers specifications as compared to any single
approved motor: Kv, maximum constant amperage rating,
mass, and MSRP.

(c) The race flyer shall list additional allowed motors for the event

[Darin Jordan]

There MAY be other options...

NAMBA Rulebook section 28.D.1.d.iii:

iii) In addition, the CD has the discretion to allow the following:
...
(c) The race flyer shall list additional allowed motors for the event

... in addition... a strict interpretation of what c) actually is saying, in the context of the rule (a list of things that can be allowed by the CD, a, b, and c.), would indicate that it's also legal for a CD of the event to list the "allowed motors for the event" on a race flier.

[T.S.Davis]

Yes Darin, but b. doesn't exist.

The SSS motors that I was trying are rated differently than the AQ or PB motors.

Here's a thought..............................what if we bypass Proboat and get the motors from Dynamite?

[revoltrunner]

Darin said this earlier

Just to provide some facts for this discussion, the Dynamite motors that Pro Boat had been using will NO LONGER be available. They've been discontinued.

So, as far as the rules are concerned, P-LTD has, for all intensive purposes, become "P-AquaCraft"...

Carry-On...

[Darin Jordan]

I would like to suggest, in all this discussion, that we all keep in mind one pretty important point:

The whole nature of this class STARTED with the introduction of the RTR SV27, and was quickly followed up with the UL-1, Miss Geico, IM31, Revolt, Motley Crew, etc.... Now TFL is entering the mix, and it looks to me like Atomix/Venom and maybe even Traxxas could offer entries as some point here.

RTR offerings, and RTR power systems, are the very BASIS for the existence of the P-LTD framework. The classes, to this very day, are FILLED with Revolts and Miss Geicos and Mystics and Motley Crews and Lucas Oils and BlackJack 29s, etc.

Some of you may not see this in your areas, but in areas with a LOT of growth and a lot of Nitro converts, or FE newbies, these boats form the BASIS with which they enter into the racing ranks. I can provide pictures from the 2014 NAMBA Nationals with Nitro FE converts racing in the Exhibition FE classes and standing on the podium in classes like P-Mono, smiling and holding their AQ Revolts. (Heck, one was ALMOST standing up there with a very over-powered IM31.. :)

These RTRs are the very FOUNDATION of many racing organizations and race classes in NAMBA. Without them, you would simply NOT have the amount of participation that we enjoy today.

Anything you do with motor rules NEEDS to keep these offerings in mind. Anything you specify needs to be competitive with THEM, not the other way around.

And for those who think that the RTRs aren't or can't be competitive, all you have to do is look at the race entries for many of these classes, especially the Mono and Cat classes. At least out here, there are RTR hulls that are usually on the podium, or not far off the pace. Maybe we're just all beginners??

AND, every one of these drivers at some point, decides they want to do more, and show up with Mean Machines or some other custom built creation, with their RTR power system on board, and begin moving up in the ranks.

It's all starting, however, with that off-the-shelf offerings, those pesky Ready-to-Run boats, that got these drivers started... and hooked... on this incredibly fun racing pass-time.

[Brushless55]

I really love the P-Ltd classes!
for some reason and I know its my setup but I've cooked several AQ2030 motors in my JAE
but the motor in my PS295 rocks and was I think one of the first runs with the UL-1, and that motors just keeps going and going and .....

[fox88gt]

Heck, I just wish I had to a club to race with thats less than a 180 mile round trip away!

[Greg Schweers]

I told Dave years ago that it'll come down to one manufacturer for spec. The problem I have is that they've changed/lowered the quality of the motor and turned around to charge you $20 more. To me it felt like AquaCraft firgured out they're the only motor, so why not raise the price. For Mike to say that he doesn't care what motor we're using -- I'm not believing that. Because of guys like me, we're buying hundreds of motors from them. I personally have purchased over 25 motors since 2010. Two years ago I lost 4 motors going from 45C batteries to 65C batteries. But I've also had several motors go two or three laps and then burn up. If the temperature goes over 135 degrees, I know I need to back off the prop. I run 5 boats every race, 13 times a year, so I know I'm going to have failures. What upsets me is that I could have bought 12 1415-1Y and only used 5 of them over the last 4 years--leaving me 7 still on the shelf. I know for a fact that our club has burned up over 15 this year.

[D. Newland]

And I've told you that you push P-Ltd boats too hard. And that 1415 1Y's are a P motor.

Howard, same with the Leopards you mentioned. P motors. Fantastic for what you are doing, but do you really think that's the way to go? Put 1415 1Y's and Leopards on the P-Ltd list?

Terry-I'm not going to comment on Sean's, Fred's and Tom's racing programs, other than to say I'd like to hear their opinions on this. I do know that Sean continuously hands me my ass in LSH (without any DNF's that I'm aware of, including my Az races). He does very well in P-Ltd Mono, too. And Tom had 11 strong finishes out of 12 heats of P-Ltd Mono, P-Ltd Cat and LSH. Fred was running the Nat's, so I'm not going to even look at his data, but I know he pulled Mr. Offshore at the Cup in 2013.

[ron1950]

I hope there is something that will be worked out for 1/10 scale. I only have a few Proboat motors at 1500kv left and one AQ motor that is approved for this class

you can always use the himax 1500 I beleave

[Grimracer]

we sometimes get accused of lowering the quality and raising the price.. Its a reaction to the cause.. Its like.. (he must be cheating cus he is winning BS)..lol (just not the case at all) Can and does the MFG "Sneak one past us" from time to time.. yep.. they all do. We try to control that best we can AND if this happens we try to get back to where we were as fast as we can.

As for caring or not.. really.. I don't.. I feel more is better and that goes for competition in motors as well. If we decide to chase the leader the leader we will chase.. (ya know.. I like competition too!).. Business or racing.... I do (you would to) find it fun to have your products wining races. (listen.. I am just the boat monkey... "5 pole mike" lol....)

Have fun and at the end of the day.. YOU CHOOSE racing boats.. keep it in perspective.. draw your weapon and pull the throttle!

Grim

On we go..

[PatrickM]

What upsets me is that I could have bought 12 1415-1Y and only used 5 of them over the last 4 years--leaving me 7 still on the shelf.

If 1415-1Y's had been allowed as spec motors, I feel certain that the top-feeder racers would have quickly discovered the limits of Neu quality. The same would be true with any motor which could be specified in a limited classification. This may not be immediately apparent at a club level when only a few are pushing the limits of the motors, but will become much more obvious if racers across the country are all running the same motors. We will always push the equipment beyond its design parameters no matter the source or perceived quality. Unfortunately with the present limited specification, the motor has become the weak link in the chain... this will continue to be the case as long as open ESC's and batteries are allowed. Improving the quality of the motor or limiting the ESC will only turn the speedo into the weak link... the same goes for Lipo's. Choose your poison....

On the plus side, Steve offers a rebuild service for his motors....

[Whitey]

You know, it is possible to stop using motors and controllers as fuses.

A simple, economical fuse can be added to any system. A small fuse block that plugs in between the batteries and the controller can be easily fabbed.

Fuses monitored by the CD would mean:
1. Motors wouldn't need to be spec'd (let everyone use whatever motor they want)
2. Controllers would be equalized (the AQ ESC would be equal to the high dollar ESC, not the make-believe equality that exist now)
3. It would also likely equalize the props used

Everyone would have a limit to the current they draw and how they put it to use is up to them.

You over prop and a $1.50 fuse is blown, not one of those $70 motor/fuses that you are using now.

If you want to tech, fuses can be passed out pre-race and inspected in seconds at the end of heats or races.

[T.S.Davis]

"If you find P-Ltd frustrating and you're unable to "dig" in another spot, I'd rather you just pass on P-Ltd and race P or any other power parameter."

That's what ya said Dave.

I don't need an opinion from Fred, Tom and Sean. The facts are plenty.

One fact is that those guys can get it done in limited. You like numbers. The numbers tell us they got it figured out. Another fact.........those guys.........are having motor failures.

Enough failures that Sean's club is leaving NAMBA limited behind in favor of something else. Doug didn't just decide for his club that they were done with the existing specification.

[Darin Jordan]

You over prop and a $1.50 fuse is blown, not one of those $70 motor/fuses that you are using now.

I'd be interested in seeing how "economical", or practical to fit into the boat, a fuse that can handle 80+ amps continuous is going to be. I've researched, and found that it's NOT so simple as you make it sound.

If you know of something otherwise, please let us know.