Spartan, tear it down to build it up

[GeoVW72]

Oh the fun's just starting , we've just blown the dust off the can of worms.

Ahh they joy of print media, once it's there you can't change it.


Third to last question:
Tim had to wait weeks to get a 6s controller

This is seeming more and more to me that you guys bought Chinese Boat #1, and we're test group #2

Why did Tim Roberts leave the design team?

What were the delays that caused the boat to be pushed back?

Is there any validity to the rumors of Aeromarine suing over the name?

(ref post #86)
Believe it or not you do seem to be doing marketing here, you are attempting to effect a change in opinion on the boat. Not that that's a bad thing as you have become the only figurehead for effecting change in the company.

The simple answer to your question is engineering.
The production engineering seems to differ largely from the prototype.
We have all seen videos of the prototype boat performing admirably and found a few hints that things were changed along the way:
Alternate trim tab mounting positions, strut mount on the transom doubler different that the holes in the hull.

In the course of my testing I have not reached a definitive conclusion to the chine walking problem;
The small amount of shifting that can be done with the stock strut mounting positon seemed to quiet the issue, but after the results of today I wonder if the liner is causing the flex to load and unload causing a variance in rpm/torque roll. The stock liner and standard .150 teflon liner both fit very loosely in the brass tube. This creates damaging friction is an area that does not normally call for lubrication, that is one of the issues that compounds another issue.

As I have found the motors seem to have a rather large and random manufacturing defect. The large gaps that exist in the stator wrappings seem to be the X factor that causes some users no problem and others major headaches. The gap seems to be creating heat that the stock cooling system cannot carry away.

I am not sure who Nitro Chicken is or his position in the company, but he seems to be alluding that the boats arriving in april will have a big change.

All I/We can do without information is create more useless and damaging speculation.

George

[sonic77]

I do appreciate it that Peter has joined this board and hopefully we will see some good outcome out of this I just wish there could of been a better decision when I sent my esc in for catching on fire in my basement and nearly burning down my work shop no joke now I keep a fire extinguisher next to my spartan luckily it didn't toast my brand new lipos too. the the throttle kept sticking also i never even made it to the lake this is my result after patiently waiting 6 months for the boat to come off of back order I saw it in person even at the chicago hobby show in October. since my fire I received a new esc motor and reciever from traxxas which are still sitting in sealed factory plastic and I'll be happy to sell it or exchange it with anyone but I'm sure its not going back in my boat I've since upgraded to a more reliable setup a castle creations 1520 seaking 180 esc and a completely new cooling system I cannot afford to take another chance when I hit the lake I mean what would I do if the boat stalled in the middle of the lake and melted how could I explain that to Traxxas? oh heres a couple pieces of burnt plastic can you replace this yea right. I was highly considering getting a vxl summit here soon but I'm having second thoughts after the service I've seen so far it may take a while for me to reconsider the next time I shell out 500.00 bucks again.
sorry I had to get that off my shoulders guys but its how I feel the boat looks cool but it needs to be more reliable if its gonna be out there on the market.
thanks
Justin

ps any word on the ball bearing drive strut release?

[shctexas]

You are correct Geo, "you do seem to be doing marketing here, you are attempting to effect a change in opinion on the boat", Peter is here for damage control, to salvage the Traxxas reputation. I don't recall him identifying himself on the Traxxas forum site offering a sympathetic ear. This forums reaction to their product has gotten their attention. They have been "outed" for producing a poorly designed product. We have been heard and could no longer be ignored. The roar made them concerned or uncomfortable enough that they had to respond. Were their sales reputation being impacted in the marketplace?

Peter is a marketing manager. We don't need to be told how wonderful their product and company are. We need an engineer, a tech or an R & D guy

[shctexas]

I stand corrected. Peter made what appears to be his first appearance, regarding the Spartan, on the Traxxas forum yesterday. Peter, you're a little late to the show. The problems identified yesterday were long ago resolved by members.

[Brushless55]

and don't forget post #91 and the reasons many have bought this boat....
http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/...5&postcount=91

[PeterTRAXXAS]

I think I've been pretty honest with you guys, I apologized for being late to these forums, and I'm here now to answer the questions that I can, and get you the answers when I can't. The ultimate objective is fully understand your experiences with the Spartan so we may improve it, as we continually improve all of our products. You can email anytime with links to forums you'd like me to respond to.

Brushless 55, it seems unfair to me that you are going to let a quote from me stand when I have explained that I had posted in error. The Spartan is designed for sustained 6S operation.

[Brushless55]

I think I've been pretty honest with you guys, I apologized for being late to these forums, and I'm here now to answer the questions that I can, and get you the answers when I can't. The ultimate objective is fully understand your experiences with the Spartan so we may improve it, as we continually improve all of our products. You can email anytime with links to forums you'd like me to respond to.

Brushless 55, it seems unfair to me that you are going to let a quote from me stand when I have explained that I had posted in error. The Spartan is designed for sustained 6S operation.

you changed your mind after I posted what was posted
take a read through it again and again
unfair, I don't think so at all, specially when traxxas members have been banded from your forums for posting the trueth about this boat, and many others have warnings, and many threads and comments removed as well
Mods come it to slap members in the face, is that fair???
you decide

[PeterTRAXXAS]

I didn't see your post until I had deleted mine--it was up for what, a minute? But that's immaterial. Let's say my post was accurate, and the Spartan was only meant for "bursts" of 6S use...I would certainly not make up a new performance capability that we couldn't meet, and never meant for the boat to have. If I'm going to do that, I may as well say the Spartan goes 100mph, runs for a half-hour on a stick pack, and cures baldness.

The Spartan is designed for sustained 6S operation. Some of you are not experiencing that. Late or otherwise, that's why I'm here. If you want to beat me up, that's fine. But I am trying to be of help here.

[Brushless55]

you changed your mind after I posted what was posted
take a read through it again and again
unfair, I don't think so at all, specially when traxxas members have been banded from your forums for posting the trueth about this boat, and many others have warnings, and many threads and comments removed as well
Mods come it to slap members in the face, is that fair???
you decide

I didn't see your post until I had deleted mine--it was up for what, a minute? But that's immaterial. Let's say my post was accurate, and the Spartan was only meant for "bursts" of 6S use...I would certainly not make up a new performance capability that we couldn't meet, and never meant for the boat to have. If I'm going to do that, I may as well say the Spartan goes 100mph, runs for a half-hour on a stick pack, and cures baldness.

The Spartan is designed for sustained 6S operation. Some of you are not experiencing that. Late or otherwise, that's why I'm here. If you want to beat me up, that's fine. But I am trying to be of help here.

Not sure if you just read what you want to and delete the reast???
who is beating you up?
I see no one on these forums, remember this is a free forum that we can post what we think is correct without fear of being given warning points or comments deleted, or threads deleted, or the fear of being banned
Steven has a kick ass site here and we all love it at OSE
many members have given advice months ago on this boat that had a claim of 50+ out of the box, that no one I can think of has done so

[JPriami]

Yeah Im not here to beat up on Peter. But I am a little confused why a Marketing person is here to help. Marketing is what has caused a stink about this boat. It doesn't really live up to its advertised specs. Its a really slim chance that it might do 50mph. But not reliably at all.


And if you really want to improve your product you should follow the lead of some of us beta testers and beef up the electronics. Or at least the motor like I stated earlier. And get some better quality control on those ESC's. But then you will still be left with the inherit problem of the boats instabilities at speeds above 50mph. As I explained in many of my post in the forum and on traxxas forum. The boat has a very steep Vee shape. And trys to balance on the tip of that Vee at speeds above 50mph. Its ok when you are in some water with some chop to it. But when you get on smooth water the problem becomes very apparent. Ive fought this problem with my boat after making it go over 50mph. And I have it just about 90% ( I feel it might need to be moved up a little still) dialed out. But I had to fill stock mounting holes and relocate the stuffing tube and strut higher on the hull to keep more of the Vee in the water to keep it stable. I am even currently doing work on another spartan for someone else. And guess what, early testing is showing the same problem. After you make the boat go over 50mph it becomes unstable. I may end up having to do the same to this boat and relocate the strut.
I have lots of post off all the mods I started on this boat from day one. I did start posting them on traxxas with pics. Also pointed out potential problems early on with that flex drive, supplied oil, and a flex drives that didn’t even have oil on it as an rtr with batteries in it out of the box. Also flex cables that are cut too long leaving too much of a gap between the strut and drive dog. Not to mention rudder inlet holes that are to small, cooling jackets that leak. The graphics on the boats are poorly aligned on a lot of them too. And on my boat and several other the bottom of the hull has imperfections in it where they joined the outer hull with the inner liner and the transom plate inside to the outer hull. These imperfections are actually melting that occurred when they joined the two parts of the hull. Maybe the epoxy mix got hot when bonding and caused this. Still all of those are quality control issiues.

I can not stress enough if you are serious about wanting to improve this boat you need to listen to what I am telling you in my post. I have been on the front lines here with this boat and many people are up here with me with first hand experience on whats been going on. And honestly I feel like some of us should be compensated because we have worked hard on this thing. And spent a lot of our time and energy on your forums helping the people that buy this boat and come there because its not what its supposed to be. When it should have been bullet proof and great like we expect from traxxas and trust in your company.

Don’t even get me started on my revo 3.3 I bought brand new that had the bearings fall out of the the front main bearing on the TRX 3.3 motor with less than ¾ of a gallon run through it. That really bummed me out. Then I bought this boat later only to have all these problems.

For me personally my trust in traxxas as a company I can trust has seriously fallen. And its going to take some real attention to matters and customer appreciation to make me & others feel like your really trying to do right by us.
It just about turns me off to buying RTR stuff anymore. Thats why im just going to stick with building stuff on my own.

[Brushless55]

Yeah Im not here to beat up on Peter. But I am a little confused why a Marketing person is here to help. Marketing is what has caused a stink about this boat. It doesn't really live up to its advertised specs. Its a really slim chance that it might do 50mph. But not reliably at all.


And if you really want to improve your product you should follow the lead of some of us beta testers and beef up the electronics. Or at least the motor like I stated earlier. And get some better quality control on those ESC's. But then you will still be left with the inherit problem of the boats instabilities at speeds above 50mph. As I explained in many of my post in the forum and on traxxas forum. The boat has a very steep Vee shape. And trys to balance on the tip of that Vee at speeds above 50mph. Its ok when you are in some water with some chop to it. But when you get on smooth water the problem becomes very apparent. Ive fought this problem with my boat after making it go over 50mph. And I have it just about 90% ( I feel it might need to be moved up a little still) dialed out. But I had to fill stock mounting holes and relocate the stuffing tube and strut higher on the hull to keep more of the Vee in the water to keep it stable. I am even currently doing work on another spartan for someone else. And guess what, early testing is showing the same problem. After you make the boat go over 50mph it becomes unstable. I may end up having to do the same to this boat and relocate the strut.
I have lots of post off all the mods I started on this boat from day one. I did start posting them on traxxas with pics. Also pointed out potential problems early on with that flex drive, supplied oil, and a flex drives that didn’t even have oil on it as an rtr with batteries in it out of the box. Also flex cables that are cut too long leaving too much of a gap between the strut and drive dog. Not to mention rudder inlet holes that are to small, cooling jackets that leak. The graphics on the boats are poorly aligned on a lot of them too. And on my boat and several other the bottom of the hull has imperfections in it where they joined the outer hull with the inner liner and the transom plate inside to the outer hull. These imperfections are actually melting that occurred when they joined the two parts of the hull. Maybe the epoxy mix got hot when bonding and caused this. Still all of those are quality control issiues.

I can not stress enough if you are serious about wanting to improve this boat you need to listen to what I am telling you in my post. I have been on the front lines here with this boat and many people are up here with me with first hand experience on whats been going on. And honestly I feel like some of us should be compensated because we have worked hard on this thing. And spent a lot of our time and energy on your forums helping the people that buy this boat and come there because its not what its supposed to be. When it should have been bullet proof and great like we expect from traxxas and trust in your company.

Don’t even get me started on my revo 3.3 I bought brand new that had the bearings fall out of the the front main bearing on the TRX 3.3 motor with less than ¾ of a gallon run through it. That really bummed me out. Then I bought this boat later only to have all these problems.

Good points Justin

and with marketing, they sell no matter the cost of doing to
just replace broken or smoked parts and move on to sell again

it is sad that you Justin and many others have given great input and advice and me included from day one, or actually when the boat was first introduced, but someone did not listen

I think it all started with the name, and boy did those threads and comments get deleted

[JPriami]

Here are some of my threads here on OSE.

My Spartan cooling system v2
Now lets upgrade some more stuff on the Spartan
6S users please check in here.
Looks like torque roll causing this?

Here is a lengthy one started on traxxas.
Spartan stuff that could help? just a little

im sure there are others but thats all I can think of. And countless helpful tips scattered all over in others threads.

Then here is some more of relations with traxxas and forum moderators along with a nice description of what one of your employees has to say about us.
Traxxas are you serious?
See post #44 there too.

[JPriami]

RCCA: Is the Titan already at the edges of its performance envelope? Is there room to go faster?
Quoting Tim Roberts in the article.
We set the boat up conservatively. But 50mph is easily achievable, and I have regularly seen it go faster with a more aggressive setup on the stock motor and speed controller. With an aftermarket system on even higher voltages, I would expect Titan to see much higher speeds before the hull becomes a limitation. I’m excited to see how far people go with it. I know I have plans of my own.

[Brushless55]

RCCA: Is the Titan already at the edges of its performance envelope? Is there room to go faster?
Quoting Tim Roberts in the article.
We set the boat up conservatively. But 50mph is easily achievable, and I have regularly seen it go faster with a more aggressive setup on the stock motor and speed controller. With an aftermarket system on even higher voltages, I would expect Titan to see much higher speeds before the hull becomes a limitation. I’m excited to see how far people go with it. I know I have plans of my own.

just what stock motor and esc was this guy using to reularly see 50+mph?

I think this boat needs a 4 pole motor, better esc, and better flex shaft
that would make it more user friendly, and possible to see the 50+mph claims

[PeterTRAXXAS]

Guys, I'm here as a conduit to engineering, customer srvice, whoever you need. I'm in marketing, but I'm not here to spill hype or anything, just supply answers if I have them, or get the answers if I don't. The customer service guys are on the phones, the engineers are busy doing their thing--I'm the guy blocking out time to be on the forums.