New ShockWave 26 Brushless

[Svenster]

Need some advice on Shockwave BL that I bought for my son at the end of last summer. We have had lots of fun with this RC. Last nighT he ran into the dock and damaged the front of the plastic hull, bending the nose down with a small crack (argh!). Still operational but I want to repair the nose. Any advice on how to do that?


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[mickvk]

I have had really good luck using the PC-11 Marine epox - it's like JB weld. You stir it up and it's like clay - not too goopy like epoxy. Spread it on with a stick. Then what I do is use a wet paper towel to smooth the application rather than sanding and painting. No problem. The color will even match pretty good. The quicker alternative would be to just use some shoe goo. hope that helps.

[Svenster]

I have had really good luck using the PC-11 Marine epox - it's like JB weld. You stir it up and it's like clay - not too goopy like epoxy. Spread it on with a stick. Then what I do is use a wet paper towel to smooth the application rather than sanding and painting. No problem. The color will even match pretty good. The quicker alternative would be to just use some shoe goo. hope that helps.

Tried the PC-11, work really well. Thanks for the tip.


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[straightbuggin]

just bought one 2 days ago and am running a venom 2s 5000 mah lipo and this thing flies and dosent get hot or nothing. awesom lil boat

[Svenster]

The shockwave is still going strong for several summers now. My son and really are enjoying this hobby. Question though, i noticed that water is not coming out the side of the boat (cooling). I pulled the tubing and i can blow water through each tube except for the tube thst sttached to the BL moter. Is this normal? Any ideas why no water is coming out the side.


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[lenny]

Svenster.

It sounds like it is clogged with sand and debris in the water nipples or in the jacket,
Try taking the motor out and sliding the jacket off and cleaning it out.
Can you post some pictures of what line you are talking about ?

[bigcam406]

whats the difference between the 2900kv motor this boat comes with and the 1500kv motor version 3 comes with? is one motor faster than the other? im trying to understand what the kv means pertaining to brushless electric motors.sorry for such a newb question,ive been an internal combustion fan my whole life...

[yellowbird]

Blocked Motor

Hi Svenster

I have had this problem a couple of times and found that one of the water nipples on the jacket gets blocked. To fix it I take a 1/8" drill and push it down inside the nipples to clean out the corrosion/ dirt. I can just about do this with the motor in place, just by pulling off the silicon water tubes. I need to do this 1-2x per year I find, but it means I don't need to remove the water jacket.

To make sure it's clean I take a plastic syringe (from Rite-Aid or similar), fill it with water and then push it up inside the water pipe that normally connects to the top of the rudder. I then push this water through the system to make sure everything is clear - the water will come out the outlet in the side of the hull if everything is OK.

If not, you can take the syringe and check each hose in turn to find the blockage.

-yellow-bird

[yellowbird]

Hi Bigcam 406

the motor kv tellks you how fast the motor will spin for a given voltage. a 2900kv motor will turn at 2900rpm if 1 volt is applied, while a 1500kv motor will turn at 1500 rpm if 1 volt is applied.

The 2900kv motor is designed for about 7.4 volts (2 cell lipo or 6 cell NiMh) battery and gives good power [2900kv x 7.4 volts = 21,460rpm nominal].The 1500kv motor is really designed for 14.8 volts (2x 2 cell lipos or 2x 6 cell NiMh) [1500kv x 14.8 volts = 22,200 rpm nominal] and will give a little bit more power on 14.8v than the 2900kv motor will on 7.4v as it has more torque, but much less power if you ran both motors on 7.4 volts as it would only be turning at 11,100rpm.

The 2900kv motor is similar to the 1500kv motor in terms of size, but I think has different internals in terms of the magnet design. The main benefit of the 2900kv motor is you only need one battery at a time which saves money and simplifies charging.

-yellowbird

[J.W. Pepper]

Let me start off by answering your KV question, that will help the rest of this make sense. In simple terms, KV = RPM's per volt from the battery.

Is this the boat you have?.... http://www.proboatmodels.com/Product...ProdID=PRB3150 - if yes, check the specs; it was intended to be run on (1) 7.2v NiMH or (1) 7.4v LiPo battery. So take 2900Kv x 7.2v battery voltage = 20,880-RPM's unloaded. Also notice that it has a steerable outdrive system with a 1.34" x 2.06" prop.

I asked a forum member (name withheld) if the steerable outdrive system is the same as surface drive as far as how much of the prop is in the water. Or is it more like a semi-submerged setup where more of the prop is underwater. Boats that have submerged props generally use a smaller diameter prop because the entire thing is in the water all the time & therefore harder to spin.

In surface drive systems, only 1/2 the prop is in the water at one time. Look at the back of your boat, one blade is pointing up & the other one is pointing down. So naturally, it takes less energy to rotate it.

Now let's look at the V3 Shockwave... http://www.proboatmodels.com/Product...ProdId=PRB0650 - It can use (1) 7.2–8.4v NiMH or (1)2S~3S battery. So lets take the max batt it can use for our purpose's, 1500Kv x 11.1v = 16,650-RPM's unloaded. HOWEVER, it uses a surface drive system with offset rudder, and, it is also turning a 1.6" x 2.5" prop.

I am still trying to figure out props, so I will refer you to this website... http://rcraceboats.webnode.gr/news/gas-prop-essentials/ - yes, they're talking about gas boats, but that doesn't matter, the concepts are the same regardless of how the boat is powered. They explain the relationship that diameter & pitch play in propelling a boat through water.

Provided I have done my math correctly, God I hope so, because I've been trying really hard to learn this stuff.
The 1.34" x 2.06" prop looks like this: 1.34"(34.036mm) Diameter x 1.5373"(39.047mm) pitch - for a total Pitch of: 1.34" x 1.5373"=2.0599"(52.3215mm). This prop is essentially the same as the Octura y534... http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pro...?prod=oct-y534

The 1.6" x 2.5" prop looks like this... 1.60"(40.64mm) x 1.5625"(39.6875mm) pitch - for a total pitch of: 1.6 x 1.5625"= 2.50"(63.5mm). It's very close in size to the Octura x640 - 1.5748"(40mm) diameter x 1.6"(40.64mm) pitch - for a total of 1.5748" x 1.6" = 2.51968"(63.9999mm).

Summary:
I don't know anything about the 2900Kv motor in the original SW26. What I do know is that if the 1500Kv motor found in the V3 boats has anywhere near as much torque as it's 1800Kv big brother, than I can understand why PB is using it.

Compare the props from the two different models. The V3's prop has slightly more pitch than the V1, but not much. However, V3's prop is much larger in diameter 1.60"(40.6400mm) vs 1.34"(34.036mm) than the V1 boats. I refer you back to the prop essentials website to understand why.


Sorry for the long winded post, but earlier today one of the LHS offered me a SW26 V3 boat at a ridiculously low price - less than anything I can find online including FleaBay.

I was waiting for an answer to a PM I sent the above referenced member regarding which prop to use with the MG24 upgraded to BL using the same power system as the SW26 BL has; I did not receive an answer.

So tomorrow I'm calling the LHS to order the SW26 V3. Since I already have a 1500Kv PB motor & the 45A ESC (with program card) that goes with it. I'm buying the brushed version & doing the BL conversion myself. I understand surface drive systems & how to prop them correctly, not so with steerable outdrives.

Mean while, I need to get my Rio EP BL boat put back together before the SW26 arrives. Bottom line is: I'm fixin to get real busy, which means no time for multiple answers to OSE posts.

Good luck in your endevors, I sincerely hope the above information gets you going in the right direction.

Happy boating :-))

whats the difference between the 2900kv motor this boat comes with and the 1500kv motor version 3 comes with? is one motor faster than the other? im trying to understand what the kv means pertaining to brushless electric motors.sorry for such a newb question,ive been an internal combustion fan my whole life...

[bigcam406]

JW and Yellowbird:thanks for your explanations.i finally have a better understanding of brushless ratings and how it pertains to prop sizing.very educational I must say.thanks again. and just for the record,i havn't purchased a v3 yet,but I was reading and found the specs between the older and new versions,so I was wondering why they made the change.J.W,keep us up to date on your brushless conversion,as im curious to see how it turns out.

[Svenster]

Svenster.

It sounds like it is clogged with sand and debris in the water nipples or in the jacket,
Try taking the motor out and sliding the jacket off and cleaning it out.
Can you post some pictures of what line you are talking about ?

Lenny. Thanks for the help. I took out the motor and removed the nipple from the motor that the cooling hose attaches. There was some black gung in it. Blew it out and now all works. Thanks again for the help.


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[lenny]

Good to hear.
Also try not to put the nipples in to deep.
I have seen some go in to deep and restrict the flow and sometimes it go's in and hits the motor can,
Also I would check the esc and rudder for some build up of debris and excess sealers from the factory on all rtr boats.

[J.W. Pepper]

...found the specs between the older and new versions,so I was wondering why they made the change...
Marketing

I have been very busy doing a lot research, basically what PB did was take the Impulse 26... http://www.proboatmodels.com/Product...ProdID=PRB4200 - changed the electronics, added gaudy graphics & called it a Shockwave 26. Check the SW26's (v3) parts listing, practically everything has "IM26" behind it.

Personally, I think the graphics on the IM26 are far nicer than the SW26, but they're also discontinued, so no converting a SW26v3 to an IM26. They also added a brushless option which was not available with the IM26.

Original Shockwave was a completely different boat than the current model; BL only, had a steerable outdrive & different hull design. The motor was the 2900Kv that also came with the Widow Maker, it was intended to run on 6 / 7 cell NiMH or 2S LiPo's. The "new" Shockwave's BL motor is an updated version of the 1500Kv motor from Miss Geico v1.

Specifics...
IM26 - lame motor, 30A ESC, same Spektrum radio as the IM31... http://www.proboatmodels.com/Product...RB8060#manuals - plus MR200 Rx.

SW26v3... Much improved (brushed) motor & 50A ESC - both are now made by Dynamite, downgraded radio system made by ECX.

SW26v3 BL... took the 1500Kv BL motor & ESC from MG29v1 / BJ26(V1 & V2) which are now made by Dynamite; and added upgraded Spektrum radio system - DX2E tx + MR200 Rx to make what can be considered the deluxe model. Sorta like a regular base model car vs. the nicer super sport model.

New BL ESC is now designated as "single battery 3S LiPo max" and has external switch for NiMH or LiPo battery type. Its predecessor was a dual battery design for 4S and programmable using this card... http://www.proboatmodels.com/Product...ProdID=PRB3311. I don't know if the new ESC is programmable.

I read YellowBirds' post on Kv ratings, for the most part his explanation is dead on. I agree with him on his comparison of the older 2900Kv vs. newer 1500Kv motors... I think it has different internals in terms of the magnet design. Based on my own experiences I can tell you that both the 1500Kv & it's 1800Kv big brother are some serious torque mysters due to they're 6-pole design.

As far as the RPM part... what he failed to take into consideration is: that the SW26v3 BL is designed to run up to a single 3S LiPo which will yield 16,650-rpm's not the 11,100-rpm value he quoted. PB did that for the reason he quoted - single battery lowers operational costs.

Why "only" a 1500Kv motor turning 16,650-rpm's - have you seen the PB promo vid?? That boat is movin along quite nicely.

Other reason(s) are: maybe that is all that the boats hull can handle, remember, that is a very torquee motor in a plastic hulled boat. PB says the boat will do 30+ mph outta the box; I'm assuming they mean with a 3S LiPo & the optional SS prop sharpened & balanced.

Bottom line is: PB took a discontinued model, updated the graphics, added a BL option & gave it a new name = practically zero $$ on development costs. The BL version gives price conscious consumers an economical alternative to fiberglass FE's both in terms of initial cost & operational cost (single battery).

Think of it as an entry level RTR FE, cheap enough that almost anybody can afford it, and fast enough that (first time) buyers won't get bored after their first trip to the pond / lake. For current boat owners, it's a great second boat to get for the wife / girlfriend / teenage kid.

If I get one, I will be trying the 1800Kv motor from my IM31 - curiosity killed the cat and satisfaction brought 'em back... cats have 9-lives.

That's my 2-cents - for what it's worth

JW and Yellowbird:thanks for your explanations.i finally have a better understanding of brushless ratings and how it pertains to prop sizing.very educational I must say.thanks again. and just for the record,i havn't purchased a v3 yet,but I was reading and found the specs between the older and new versions,so I was wondering why they made the change.J.W,keep us up to date on your brushless conversion,as im curious to see how it turns out.

[bigcam406]

thanks for the reply J.W.i already figured out the Impulse 26 and the Shockwave V3 were basically the same boat,just done up a bit.(I compare it to a base 69 Camaro to a Z28 lol).as far as the difference between the 2 motors,im still trying to figure out why they went with a lower kv motor instead of the original 2900.i have been doing a lot of reading,and I don't really see a difference between a higher rpm motor using a smaller prop,and a lower rpm motor that uses a larger prop(if the said voltage is the same).is there really that much a difference between the 2,or is the lower kv motor basically more efficient causing the increase in torque? it sounds to me like its a crapshoot really,unless there is a big difference between the 2.im guessing the higher kv with the same voltage and smaller prop would be a faster boat than vice a versa.i apologize for the questions,and keeping you away from your projects,just very curious.thanks again for your responses.