New Insane FE hydro, or Phil Thomas Stealth hydro?

[v-spec]

I don't know why everyone keeps mentioning the sponsons being vented like it's a bad thing. The hulls run great this way the Whiplash FE30 and now Stealth Sport all have it this way for a reason, It's faster! MarkF had it right when he said if it bothers you pick up a Scale hydro and run it in a scale class.

Sure it's design resembles that of a rigger but after driving my FE30 at 60+ mph with no hint of blowover I'm not having it any other way! It's an evolution of design and some people are afraid of change!

[Fluid]

I inadvertently started a huge war on JRCBD last year when the Insane Gen4 sport hydro was released. I posted that while the design was legal, was it really the direction we wanted Sport Hydros to go? Man did that start a s**t storm! Those gas guys can be crazy. The thread ended up being one reason the owner shut the whole website down....

I wasn't intending to be critical of the Insane boat on JRCBD, I just wanted to bring up the question: what is the real goal for the Sport Hydro class, performance or "true scale appearance". Since the FE-30 is the little brother to the successful Gen4 hydro the same question remains for the FE folks here.

I'm fine either way, at least the FE-30 and PTSS21 attempt to conform to the spirit of the Sport Hydro rules. I've owned both so you can figure out my priorities. Regardless, the bulk of the buyers may be sport boaters who only care about performance. Others can buy more scale-appearing boats if they want, the market is littered with them.

For those who say the Insane and Whiplash don't look like "real" hydros, how's this?



.

[Darin Jordan]

For those who say the Insane and Whiplash don't look like "real" hydros, how's this?

That boat ROCKS, and I have a funny feeling that one could be made to look VERY similiar to it and still meet all the Sport Hydro rules.

Hmmmmm.... I wonder who might be the first to try that?

[Insaniac]

That boat ROCKS, and I have a funny feeling that one could be made to look VERY similiar to it and still meet all the Sport Hydro rules.

Hmmmmm.... I wonder who might be the first to try that?

Hmmm...I'm thinking a yellow FE-30 with a different cowl....

[AlanN]

I don't know why everyone keeps mentioning the sponsons being vented like it's a bad thing. The hulls run great this way the Whiplash FE30 and now Stealth Sport all have it this way for a reason, It's faster! MarkF had it right when he said if it bothers you pick up a Scale hydro and run it in a scale class.

Sure it's design resembles that of a rigger but after driving my FE30 at 60+ mph with no hint of blowover I'm not having it any other way! It's an evolution of design and some people are afraid of change!

Becouse the challenge of the setup is to not make the hull blow over. And yes, it can and has been done. Running a ride like this makes me believe it was made for those who do not know how to set a sport hydro up properly. I do not believe that it is an evolution of the design. It is an out rigger in sport hydro clothing nothing more or less. There is a difference in how the two hulls styles are designed to run. This is a fusion of sport hydro and rigger and it greys out the distinction between the 2 classes.

[MarkF]

Well Alan, since none of the new generation sport hydros will make you happy then I guess the new stealth sport hydro looks to be the one to make you feel less miserable. I think there is a lot of difference between the insane sport hydro and a rigger. There is a lot more thought going into the sport boat compared to the simple designs of a rigger. Heck even the real boats seem to be following suit. If living in the past is what makes you happy then I say do what makes you feel good. I know I'm happy were the sport is going.

Mark

[Rumdog]

I like hydros. Period. I am a sport runner. I want a hull that is stable at high speed, and can hang well in the corners fisrt. Good looks come second. Who cares what it is called, or where original ideas came from. Should all hydro hulls look the same? Absolutely not! Therefor, they will have different driving characteristics. Who wants a hull that is a bitch to keep on the water and turns like hell because it looks like a true hydro? Not me!

[Flying Scotsman]

Allan, I respect your point of view and I love scale boats, but I just think that a hull regardless of design that is fast and stable will win the hearts of less experienced hydro boaters, like myself.

Douggie

[raptor347]

I'll be interested to see how it does at the 2-lap this weekend at Legg Lake. I'm guessing there will be a couple running.

Sport hydro design is different from a rigger. One isn't any simpler than the other, the refinements are just in different areas.

[Fluid]

Alan is entitled to his opinion, he has a point and that's just fine with me. Perhaps the bigger question is how do we handle the ever-increasing power and run time available today and in the future? Right now the power levels can allow 70 mph P Sport Hydros, but the existing rules don't allow successfully racing them in the real world. So we are reducing the potential performance of our race boats by the restrictive rules - both length and design limitations.

A similar case exists with monos - full scale boats are going to steps but we FE boaters are proscribed from steps by our mono rules. Steps allow higher speeds with reduced blow off risk, and on the larger courses we run today the turning performance is not compromised. But few decent stepped hulls exist for NA-type sprint racing because there is such a limited demand. A step change in performance is possible, but.....

I'm not saying we should change the rules, but we should think about where we want the sport to go. Adding more classes just seems ridiculous, but making what we have more inclusive will help the sport grow. Just IMO.


.

[Rumdog]

Damn, I wish I lived out in Cali with all you racers!

[properchopper]

Damn, I wish I lived out in Cali with all you racers!

Oddly enough here in So Cal, it's historically been a real grunt to get some dedicated FE enthusiasts together. We formed SoCal FE a few years ago to assemble enough people to get some races started but it's been largely a futile effort until lately. Say what you will about the FE 30, but since it's introduction things are starting to take off in terms of interest in getting things moving (although correlation doesn't necessarily imply causality I think in this case it might). Mark has returned with both feet and his depth of FE experience is a big boost to the mix. Questtek Joe has provided some great input [& his private lake hasn't hurt much either !] I finally have a boat that I can drive Lots has to be said in praise of Mark Grim and the Seismic Amigos for keeping the welcome door wide open for the FE crowd.
This year has seen some good positive [and welcome] growth from the industry and the future looks bright. Mr. Newland, a good man to have as NAMBA National FE chairman has been pushing me to get some race dates on the calander and I'm hoping to do so in the near future.
Alan, we're just going to have to get together again in Newland's back yard & work things out. I'll bring the beer - Oh wait - I have to be home for Christmas !

[AlanN]

Why make sport hydro so difficult for us newcomers to FE?

Why not learn the right way to set up a sport hydro?

To me it's like running a gas crackerbox hull with all the current modifications. The way the rules are tweaked now the hulls run more like monos and aren't apt to flip and spin out like they used to. There is not as much driving skill and tuning that was once required.

In reference to what Jay is saying. I would prefer we just run P spec and P open power without length restrictions. And only have 2-3 power levels. P spec/P open, maybe q and open hulls. That will limit the amount power levels but include all hull types.

And it's tough to get anything going as far as club growth is concerned just about anywhere. Kudo's to those who can get new members and have a club series to race.

Tony, I'll take a lemon drop and see you under the mistletoe!!!! Hey wait a minute...thought we were gonna get together at Hannauka?

[DPeterson]

Went to my first Nitro race this last weekend. Badger race out of Racine WI.

Raced against a bunch of UL1's. Unvented Hulls have no chance against vented Hulls. And the explanation that was given to me by a longstanding very respected racer and boat designer is that the intent of the Sport Hydro should be that the inside sponson wall is in a straight line with rear tub wall. The Whiplash and the Phil Thomas still has this even though these Hulls are vented. The Insane clearly is not of this design. It was said once that it is unfortunate that the rules are not more clearly defined and I agree. I must say though that I would caution those that invest in this type of Hull. It doesn't seem to be accepted by veteren racers in IMPBA and maybe NAMBA and IMPBA should look at clearly defining the rules.

The other thing I learned this weekend is that the nitro hull lengths are matched up with the power level they have in their boats. While I was an advocate of length limits for electric I believe I was mislead on what the length limits should have been. It only took me one visit to a nitro race to see it. Very unfortunate situation.

Only posted in response to the Insane comments and the length limit comments. This will not be a rules debate.

Doug

[v-spec]

Why not learn the right way to set up a sport hydro?

To me it's like running a gas crackerbox hull with all the current modifications. The way the rules are tweaked now the hulls run more like monos and aren't apt to flip and spin out like they used to. There is not as much driving skill and tuning that was once required.

In reference to what Jay is saying. I would prefer we just run P spec and P open power without length restrictions. And only have 2-3 power levels. P spec/P open, maybe q and open hulls. That will limit the amount power levels but include all hull types.

And it's tough to get anything going as far as club growth is concerned just about anywhere. Kudo's to those who can get new members and have a club series to race.

Tony, I'll take a lemon drop and see you under the mistletoe!!!! Hey wait a minute...thought we were gonna get together at Hannauka?

I'm going to go out on a limb here since I don't know you or don't know what boats or experience you have but it just sounds to me like your upset that these new boats are either going to force you to either upgrade from what you currently run or risk being beat by one and have to make excuses.