Brushless motor winding class

[T.S.Davis]

Don, you could print that. Scribble on it and snap a pic. Arrow is wrong in the finish leg for sure.

[donhuff]

Well you ended your wire, right where I ended mine. What I wanted you to do was see the pattern, and carry that all the way to the finish and fill all the slots for that leg. Clearly, I'm still not explaining it to where ya'll are getting what's going on, completely.

When using an 18 slot stator, you HAVE to have 3 coils per leg, 120 degrees apart. You HAVE to have this. And then since we have three legs, you have to have three per all three legs, so that's 9 total.

This particular wind has 6 coils per leg, 3 CCW and 3 CW, times 3 legs, so thats 18 coils total. I drew only 4 coils in my picture so it would be bigger and easier to see, and did not carry the wire all the way to the end, but I thought I explained it in the text how to carry it on out to the end. But I know the text gets very confusing and is really easy to get lost in it.

Give me a few minutes while I try to get a better drawing made that will make the finish more understandable.

[donhuff]

Terry, I meant to say that your drawing is correct, up to the last part on the right where you went back to the start.

[T.S.Davis]

Terry, I meant to say that your drawing is correct, up to the last part on the right where you went back to the start.

Stalled. Got it.

I have about 6 hour of windshield time to do. I'll fix it after.

[donhuff]

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Here is one leg all the way through. The finish is not going to make much sense to you laid out like this until you understand what's going on, and until you can imagine the flat stator in the drawing, turned back into a round cylinder.

To do that, I drew this one so that the ends would line up when folded together. This closes the stator up and makes it round again. I folded mine to make the picture come out better, but it would make more sense to you and look more real if you would tape yours together and make a tube out of it.

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Now you should be able to see how the wire goes all the way back to the very first slot where we started, to give that first slot it's third pass of the wire. Then continuing CW sts and up and out for the finish.

See now how your start position and finish position of the lead wires is in the exact same location as they were in the "simple" 3 D wind. Makes you wonder WHY, they do it this way?????

[TRUCKPULL]

Don
By looking a this diagram you do not get the problem of the dead tooth as in Post #52 or the picture in post #50


Larry

[donhuff]

I'm not sure Larry. I don't think it will have a dead tooth, because it has wire going both ways and looks like it would have to catch those three teeth too.


But I am unwinding that green practice stator now, and will rewind it with this wind and then we can look at the bottom, (I like looking at bottoms!) and see if it still has the dead teeth.

[TRUCKPULL]

Don
Maybe once the stator is stuffed and pressed, wouldn't that tooth be filled in a lot more?

(I like looking at bottoms!) Me too - I have always said that I am a leg man, only because they go up and make a A&& of them selves!

Larry

[donhuff]

Nope, do dead spots in this wind.

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But after thinking on it a while I remembered something that I had said earlier. Don't worry about the end turns, they don't do anything for the motor. It's the wire in the slots that makes the difference.

That other wind didn't have wire wrapped around the end of those three teeth BUT that don't matter!!! Those teeth had wire in the slots right beside them, and that's what matters!



But I want you to notice in these pics that the wire I took out of the normal 3 turn from before, is exactly the same length as this wind needed. I did not cut the wires at all. I have decided that it's the length of the wire (in the slots) that determines the kv. Again, the end turns and the leads have nothing to do with it. Not the length of each strand, but the length of the turn or turns of a single strand or a bundle of strands making up a turn or turns.


I finished up a motor this morning using this wind, and I have to say that it does seem like this wind can run longer before getting hot, than the normal 3D wind. I have noticed this before too. I ran the one this morning for a good long while, and it still was not to hot to hold......Interesting???

[donhuff]

" Don
Maybe once the stator is stuffed and pressed, wouldn't that tooth be filled in a lot more? "


It might get more covered up, to where it wouldn't show. But as I said in my post above, I need to quit looking at the end turns cause they don't do nuttin.

[T.S.Davis]

I had it once you said "finish the phase numb nuts". Paraphrasing. See if this smells right.

18n6p - 3 turn one phase CCW & CW WIND.JPG

I was doing some more reading. Multiple recommendations for a rubberized CA made by Loctite on any bare spots on the stator. That's basically tire glue aint it?

[donhuff]

That's it. Looks good.



Seems like I have read about that glue before. Mostly from the outrunner rewinding guys. Never tried it though, ca does good enough for me on the little chips.

[Brushless55]

...

[donhuff]

Terry,

I haven't covered it before, only said "do it". That's the disassembling of the wire in the stator. I know that seems like it should be an easy thin to do, but that's not so true if your trying to not bugger up the insulation on the stator.

I have a few motors coming in to be rewired, and I think there will be a 2000kv dyna in the batch. I'll try to get a few pics of the process to show some of the things that I have found to make it an easier job, that doesn't mess up that insulation. The 2000 is the hands down winner in the, easiest to "unwind" race. It's just the hardest one to get the stator out though, since the front end bell won't come off.

Heat is the main tool to make it easier because that softens the glue that they dip them in after they get them wound up at the factory. Here are the tools that I use, a heat gun, but a good hot hair drier would work too. A pair of channel locks to hold the hot stator, a pair of small side cutters or dikes, an awl is handy for lifting the wire away from the stator, and some acetone and wire tooth brush to clean it up with.

The AQ motor is probably the second easiest to take apart, but it's twice as hard as the 2000. The glue they use is harder and has to be a lot hotter to soften, and that makes it a lot easier to chip that insulation on the ends of the stator.

Then there's the SOB of the bunch, the dynamite 1500. It will not come apart without messing up the insulation. And I usually lose a few of the stator laminations because they get bent and twisted. So after getting all the wire out finally, I have to soak it in hot lye to remove ALL the stator insulation, and then recoat it.

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Here I have a stator ready to coat with powder, heat proof tape on the outside and teflon wrap inside the rotor hole. These are to keep the powder off of where I don't want it. That stuff is hard to send off. And the wrap on the hole, gives the powder something to rest against so that it will bridge the gap between the teeth and seal the slots off from the rotor hole. You have to do that to keep the wires from finding there way through that gap, and getting against the spinning rotor. That will make smoke real quickly!

I made up this small fluid bed to "dip" the stators in. It works suprisingly well to be made out of pvc and an aquarium air pump. The fluid bed makes the powder act like a liquid, so that when I dip it in, the powder "flows" into all the slots, and doesn't lump up.


I dip it a few times until I have a good build up, not to much or you reduce the size of the slots. Then it goes into the oven @ 400F for 15 to 20 minutes. And that makes a good hard slick finish on the stator.

[donhuff]

Let's do a WYE this time. From now on let's call it a Y, like normal folk do.

The y is different from the d mainly in how the wires "terminate" or end. With the delta, we used three individual wires (or bundles of wires) for the 3 legs, and all 6 ends got twisted together in pairs of two. The y differs by taking all three wires and twisting one end of each together, so that all three make up one wire "harness", I guess you could call it that. And the other ends of the harness has your glued up needles on them.

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Take the harness and put the needle end of one into a slot. Now for another difference between d and y, skip over one slot and insert the second needle, skip another slot and insert the third needle. It should look like this pic.
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With the wires coming out the bottom, lets take the orange one first and skip two slots (STS) to the right and go back up. This will be our first coil. It doesn't go back to the start slot like the d wind did. We'll catch up to that start slot later. I'm doing a 3 turn wind on this one just like the delta had. So do your 3 turns and exit out the top. STS to the right again and start the second coil. Do the 3 turns and move to the right again like always sts and back in for the third and final coil for this leg.
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