Would this have been so bad?

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  • domwilson
    Moderator
    • Apr 2007
    • 4408

    #1

    Would this have been so bad?

    We haven't had a political posting in a while. Thought I'd start one.
    This is Roosevelt's "Second Bill of Rights". Would it have been so bad?

    "It is our duty now to begin to lay the plans and determine the strategy for the winning of a lasting peace and the establishment of an American standard of living higher than ever before known. We cannot be content, no matter how high that general standard of living may be, if some fraction of our people—whether it be one-third or one-fifth or one-tenth—is ill-fed, ill-clothed, ill-housed, and insecure.
    This Republic had its beginning, and grew to its present strength, under the protection of certain inalienable political rights—among them the right of free speech, free press, free worship, trial by jury, freedom from unreasonable searches and seizures. They were our rights to life and liberty.
    As our nation has grown in size and stature, however—as our industrial economy expanded—these political rights proved inadequate to assure us equality in the pursuit of happiness.
    We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. “Necessitous men are not free men.”[2] People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.
    In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.
    Among these are:
    The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;
    The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;
    The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;
    The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;
    The right of every family to a decent home;
    The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;
    The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;
    The right to a good education.
    All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.
    America’s own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for our citizens."

    Does it sound like socialism?
    Government Moto:
    "Why fix it? Blame someone else for breaking it."
  • Dr. Jet
    Fast Electric Addict!
    • Sep 2007
    • 1707

    #2
    Originally posted by domwilson
    Does it sound like socialism?
    Yes. There is a difference between the right to have/do something versus the opportunity to have/do something.

    For example: Every citizen has the opportunity to provide a decent home for his family. If he is a lazy, non-productive bum, why should I be forced to pay for his housing?
    A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves

    Comment

    • domwilson
      Moderator
      • Apr 2007
      • 4408

      #3
      Originally posted by Dr. Jet
      Yes. There is a difference between the right to have/do something versus the opportunity to have/do something.

      For example: Every citizen has the opportunity to provide a decent home for his family. If he is a lazy, non-productive bum, why should I be forced to pay for his housing?
      I guess that part would go along with this...

      "The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;"

      There are many millions who want to work, but can't find a job. Does that make them lazy? In addition, the part about descent home can be interpreted another way. Can you say "Slum Lord?" or being forced to live in a certain area because of age, race, religion, sex, marital status or some other factor that the intolerant can devise? Something else, Democracy is a form of government. Socialism is a economic system.
      Government Moto:
      "Why fix it? Blame someone else for breaking it."

      Comment

      • Flying Scotsman
        Fast Electric Adict!
        • Jun 2007
        • 5190

        #4
        As Winston Churchill stated

        "Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those others that have been tried"

        I perceive FDR got it right and was way ahead of his time in his Second Bill of Rights.

        Douggie

        Comment

        • m4a1usr
          Fast Electric Addict
          • Nov 2009
          • 2038

          #5
          Originally posted by domwilson
          This is Roosevelt's "Second Bill of Rights". Would it have been so bad?

          Does it sound like socialism?
          What it sounds like is the government in every aspect of our lives. Let see, it covered our housing, our jobs, our retirement, our education, our healthcare, our business's and who knows where it would have spun off to. Its a mockery of personal motivation or responsibility. Why force yourself to do it when its your right and it will be handed to you? Our government is already trying to social engineer the population. The second bill of rights was just an easy way to implement it without passing acres of legislation accomplishing the same thing. Which by the way is being done as we speak by our current administration.

          "We will grant you freedom if you do what we demand" A promise wrapped in delusion. Social enslavement for the masses. What a choice?


          They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin


          John
          Change is the one Constant

          Comment

          • domwilson
            Moderator
            • Apr 2007
            • 4408

            #6
            I don't think it was trying to give to the undeserving. But merely giving equal opportunity for those that seek it. Sure there are some who want without working for it. But there are many more working hard and not getting it.
            Government Moto:
            "Why fix it? Blame someone else for breaking it."

            Comment

            • RCprince
              Fast Electric Addict!
              • Jul 2007
              • 1637

              #7
              Originally posted by Dr. Jet
              Yes. There is a difference between the right to have/do something versus the opportunity to have/do something.

              For example: Every citizen has the opportunity to provide a decent home for his family. If he is a lazy, non-productive bum, why should I be forced to pay for his housing?
              "Every" I think not unless you live in a house with at-least 2 or more bread winners, there is no living wage, remember.
              Last edited by RCprince; 03-21-2010, 11:53 PM. Reason: I must have been sleepy at the end of the last sentence
              Samuel Johnson - “An injustice anywhere is an injustice everywhere.” William Cooper "listen to everything, read everything, and believe nothing unless you can prove it in your own research!"

              Comment

              • domwilson
                Moderator
                • Apr 2007
                • 4408

                #8
                Welcome back, Neil. Haven't heard from you in a while.
                Government Moto:
                "Why fix it? Blame someone else for breaking it."

                Comment

                • domwilson
                  Moderator
                  • Apr 2007
                  • 4408

                  #9
                  Originally posted by m4a1usr
                  What it sounds like is the government in every aspect of our lives. Let see, it covered our housing, our jobs, our retirement, our education, our healthcare, our business's and who knows where it would have spun off to. Its a mockery of personal motivation or responsibility. Why force yourself to do it when its your right and it will be handed to you? Our government is already trying to social engineer the population. The second bill of rights was just an easy way to implement it without passing acres of legislation accomplishing the same thing. Which by the way is being done as we speak by our current administration.

                  "We will grant you freedom if you do what we demand" A promise wrapped in delusion. Social enslavement for the masses. What a choice?


                  They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin


                  John
                  Just remember, the government is in our lives...Those intrusions are called laws.
                  Now I don't agree with the extent of many of our laws. It's just as of late, many don't seem to favor the will of the people.
                  Government Moto:
                  "Why fix it? Blame someone else for breaking it."

                  Comment

                  • m4a1usr
                    Fast Electric Addict
                    • Nov 2009
                    • 2038

                    #10
                    Originally posted by domwilson
                    Now I don't agree with the extent of many of our laws. It's just as of late, many don't seem to favor the will of the people.
                    Amen brother. And I see that seperation growing over time as social engineering continues to be the fixation of our elected officials.

                    John
                    Change is the one Constant

                    Comment

                    • domwilson
                      Moderator
                      • Apr 2007
                      • 4408

                      #11
                      Now think of those bill of rights...Would you feel the same about them if our government/big business weren't trying herd us into being big debt consumers? Remember, those were a different time and people weren't so obsessed with material possessions. People had a different set of values and what was important to them. Back then, it was more important to pay the mortgage than the car payment.
                      Government Moto:
                      "Why fix it? Blame someone else for breaking it."

                      Comment

                      • RCprince
                        Fast Electric Addict!
                        • Jul 2007
                        • 1637

                        #12
                        Originally posted by domwilson
                        Welcome back, Neil. Haven't heard from you in a while.
                        Thanks Dom, sometimes you need a hiatus to remain objective.
                        Samuel Johnson - “An injustice anywhere is an injustice everywhere.” William Cooper "listen to everything, read everything, and believe nothing unless you can prove it in your own research!"

                        Comment

                        • RCprince
                          Fast Electric Addict!
                          • Jul 2007
                          • 1637

                          #13
                          Originally posted by m4a1usr
                          Amen brother. And I see that seperation growing over time as social engineering continues to be the fixation of our elected officials.

                          John
                          We are complicit in the present condition of our nation. Freedom is never free. But as long as the Brain, The Heart, The Lungs, The Liver, The Kidneys, The Stomach. et'al... think they are more important to the existence of the body and the anus(censored word) is just "that", an anus. We will continue to be in the predicament until one day when the anus shuts down and stuff starts to literally back-up. Not until then will we respect the importance of the right to equal access to all resources. But the system have a fail-safe... it's called living beyond ones means... some will always cross the picket line.
                          Samuel Johnson - “An injustice anywhere is an injustice everywhere.” William Cooper "listen to everything, read everything, and believe nothing unless you can prove it in your own research!"

                          Comment

                          • domwilson
                            Moderator
                            • Apr 2007
                            • 4408

                            #14
                            Originally posted by RCprince
                            Freedom is never free.
                            Ever notice that every time we are in a conflict, it's to protect our freedom? Yet the government is nickel and dime'n our freedom away and all we do is comply. Has the government/corporations become our present day representation of the "Borg" and "Resistance is futile?"
                            Government Moto:
                            "Why fix it? Blame someone else for breaking it."

                            Comment

                            • RCprince
                              Fast Electric Addict!
                              • Jul 2007
                              • 1637

                              #15
                              Originally posted by domwilson
                              Ever notice that every time we are in a conflict, it's to protect our freedom? Yet the government is nickel and dime'n our freedom away and all we do is comply. Has the government/corporations become our present day representation of the "Borg" and "Resistance is futile?"
                              Yea it's all code words now. List all the freedoms the jihadist have lost in the last 8 years and name all the restrictions imposed on American lives, Who is the War on terror really on? We are The frog in the kettle.
                              Last edited by RCprince; 03-22-2010, 02:56 AM.
                              Samuel Johnson - “An injustice anywhere is an injustice everywhere.” William Cooper "listen to everything, read everything, and believe nothing unless you can prove it in your own research!"

                              Comment

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