California - A "Shining" example of where this country is heading!

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  • Darin Jordan
    Fast Electric Addict!
    • Apr 2007
    • 8335

    #1

    California - A "Shining" example of where this country is heading!

    Gaze into the future, folks...



    OK... I'm ready... go ahead and start telling me that what is happening isn't really happening...

    Or how THIS time these policies will be different when applied to the whole country... or have a different outcome...
    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."
  • Bill-SOCAL
    Fast Electric Addict!
    • Nov 2007
    • 1404

    #2
    Unless the US as a whole adopts the legislation by referendum model that California has I doubt you have much to worry about. I honestly do not know why we waste time with electing representatives, it is the popular vote that sets the laws. I know that sounds like a great model, but just look at California to see what that really means.

    Here's a nice summary of the problems with our budget process in California:

    PRINCIPLES OF BUDGET REFORM

    Here are some of the factors that contribute to the dysfunction of California's budget process.

    Supermajority requirement:
    California is one of just three states (Arkansas and Rhode Island being the others) that require a two-thirds vote of the legislature for passage of the budget. This allows a small number of legislators to hold the budget hostage, as California Republicans did again this year. Solution: Allow passage by simple majority.

    Timeline: In a state of the size and complexity of California, legislators are hard-pressed to review the programs, hear the pleas of various interest groups and produce a consensus for a budget in time for the July 1 fiscal year. Solution: A two-year budget cycle.

    Proposition 13: The property-tax-limiting measure was passed by voters in 1978 under a rallying cry from voters who were worried about losing their homes. But the measure also brought an unadvertised windfall for commercial property. Some businesses have been exploiting a loophole that allows them to avoid a reassessment even when commercial property changes hands. Solution: Annual reassessments of commercial property would bring in several billion dollars a year.

    Ballot-box budgeting: Time and again, voters have approved spending mandates without identifying a source of funding for them. As a result, about 90 percent of the state budget is locked in. Solution: Voters should reject unfunded mandates.

    Unaccountable legislators:
    Because lawmakers are allowed to draw themselves districts that are safe for one party or the other, too many of them play to the extreme - such as the Republicans who are digging in against a tax increase or the Democrats who won't budge on various cuts. Solution: Put the drawing of district lines in the hands of an independent commission, as proposed by Proposition 11, on the Nov. 4 ballot. Vote yes on 11.
    So sorry Darin, it is far more complex an issue than just those money grabbing socialist America hating Libberuls messing things up.
    Don't get me started

    Comment

    • RCprince
      Fast Electric Addict!
      • Jul 2007
      • 1637

      #3
      California didn't learn from Ronald Reagan, wait Please don't tell me Arnold is gonna be President: The did say that in Demolition Man,Wesley Snipes " Arnold is President" Art imitates real life sometimes. I remember there was a movement during his run for governor to amend Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 of the United States Constitution. Which bars foreign born citizen from becoming President. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,139952,00.html

      People love celebrities, as foolish as that is. I'm surprised Fred Thompson received such low numbers. At any rate.

      Let me See

      California: Ronald Reagan (Republican)- Actor, Salesman was Both Governor and President of the United States....failed

      Arnold Schwarzenegger (Republican) - Actor and Governor...failing

      Tennessee:Fred Thompson (Republican) Actor, Senator...Attempted Republican nominee for President.


      Montana: Jesse Ventura (Independent) - Wrestler,Actor and Governor
      Samuel Johnson - “An injustice anywhere is an injustice everywhere.” William Cooper "listen to everything, read everything, and believe nothing unless you can prove it in your own research!"

      Comment

      • Darin Jordan
        Fast Electric Addict!
        • Apr 2007
        • 8335

        #4
        You guys crack me up.... POLICY guys... NOT people! The most LIBERAL state in the Union, using ALL of the policies now being pushed by this administration... Yup... go for it!

        What a JOKE! OH, wait... it isn't...
        Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
        "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

        Comment

        • Darin Jordan
          Fast Electric Addict!
          • Apr 2007
          • 8335

          #5
          Originally posted by RCprince
          California: Ronald Reagan (Republican)- Actor, Salesman was Both Governor and President of the United States....failed
          Dude... you gotta lay off whatever you are smoking... History has NOT shown Ronald Reagan to have "failed"... JIMMY CARTER... now THERE is an example of a president who has FAILED!

          And Arnold??? A "Republican"??? In name only, dude...
          Last edited by Darin Jordan; 11-14-2009, 08:36 AM.
          Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
          "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

          Comment

          • Steven Vaccaro
            Administrator
            • Apr 2007
            • 8720

            #6
            Why don't they just raise the state income tax on anyone that makes more than 50k a year, to around 50% or so? That should cover it.
            Steven Vaccaro

            Where Racing on a Budget is a Reality!

            Comment

            • Darin Jordan
              Fast Electric Addict!
              • Apr 2007
              • 8335

              #7
              Originally posted by Bill-SOCAL
              So sorry Darin, it is far more complex an issue than just those money grabbing socialist America hating Libberuls messing things up.
              Really??? WHO exactly is doing the voting?? Wouldn't be Democrats/Liberals, would it??
              Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
              "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

              Comment

              • carsonschaos
                Member
                • May 2007
                • 30

                #8
                I agree that history has reflected well on Reagan.
                His approach to correcting our economic problems are far different than Obama. I guess we will see if Obama turns things around as Reagan did.
                OK I'm ready for all the Reagan slamming.

                Comment

                • Bill-SOCAL
                  Fast Electric Addict!
                  • Nov 2007
                  • 1404

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Darin Jordan
                  The most LIBERAL state in the Union, using ALL of the policies now being pushed by this administration.
                  This is sort of interesting. When ranking is done by the political ideaology of the representatives in the state legislature California ranks as the 5th most liberal AND the 10th most conservative.



                  Los Angeles and San Francisco make California "Blue". Most of the rest of the state is actually very conservative. I live in Orange County, arguably one of the most conservative areas of the country. We're the folks who sent B-1 Bob Dornan to congress for instance.

                  And it's clear you missed the point of my post Darin. California is screwed up mostly due to how our legislative policy is driven by the referendum process. But I just live here so I may have no clue what is going on.

                  Here's another list of liberal/conservative that I found, again, California is not No. 1.

                  10 Most Liberal -
                  Vermont
                  Massachussets
                  Rhode Island
                  Oregon
                  California
                  Washington
                  New York
                  Illinois
                  Maryland
                  Minnesota

                  10 Most Conservative -
                  Utah
                  Idaho
                  Wyoming
                  South Dakota
                  Alabama
                  Mississippi
                  South Carolina
                  Arkansas
                  Kentucky
                  Indiana

                  Bottom line is that if you are trying to say that the situation in California is a window into the future of the US you are dead wrong. Until the US as a whole adopts the legislate by referendum process and the requirement for a supermajority (57%) to pass a budget I do not think you will see the US follow in our footsteps.
                  Don't get me started

                  Comment

                  • Bill-SOCAL
                    Fast Electric Addict!
                    • Nov 2007
                    • 1404

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Darin Jordan
                    Really??? WHO exactly is doing the voting?? Wouldn't be Democrats/Liberals, would it??
                    You completely missed the point. IT is how people have used that vote to set up a process that cripples either party's ability to govern. And as I noted above if you take San Francisco and LA out of the picture California is mostly conservative.

                    Your simplistic attempt to use California as a predictive model for the US fails from the get go if all you are using is your incorrect perception of California as "THE" most liberal state.

                    Look at Vermont, they elected an avowed socialist to the Senate!!

                    And if you do want to approach it from that viewpoint you are still wrong in your assessment:

                    The first in Gallup's "State of the States" series reveals that Rhode Island, Massachusetts, and Hawaii are the most Democratic states in the nation, along with the District of Columbia. Utah and Wyoming are the most Republican states.
                    Attached Files
                    Don't get me started

                    Comment

                    • Steven Vaccaro
                      Administrator
                      • Apr 2007
                      • 8720

                      #11
                      New Hampshire will be on the top list soon. Its turning left very quickly, since all the lefties are moving out of MA due to the high cost of housing.
                      Steven Vaccaro

                      Where Racing on a Budget is a Reality!

                      Comment

                      • Darin Jordan
                        Fast Electric Addict!
                        • Apr 2007
                        • 8335

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Bill-SOCAL
                        And as I noted above if you take San Francisco and LA out of the picture California is mostly conservative.

                        Bill... I don't think I AM missing the point... You hit the nail on the head right there.... Washington is generally middle of the road as well, but TWO counties, King and Pierce, over-ride everyone else... Basically what King county wants, goes.... And guess what, Kind county is SUPER Liberal, and we are only just barely trailing California in per/capita deficit.... at least the last time I checked we were...

                        I don't care if "most of the state" is conservative... apparently minority rules there... if only two areas are "Liberal"...

                        Too much spending and too high of taxes are NOT conservitive ideas... they are Democrat/Liberal ways of doing business, and they obviously aren't working...

                        But believe what you will... You live there, after all....
                        Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
                        "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

                        Comment

                        • Darin Jordan
                          Fast Electric Addict!
                          • Apr 2007
                          • 8335

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Steven Vaccaro
                          New Hampshire will be on the top list soon. Its turning left very quickly, since all the lefties are moving out of MA due to the high cost of housing.

                          You did hear, also, that the New York Times is moving a big chunk of their operation to tax-free Florida.... What hypocrits!
                          Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
                          "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

                          Comment

                          • NitroVal
                            Senior Member
                            • Jun 2009
                            • 423

                            #14
                            Once Pelosi and Feinstien finally croak by some miracle of nature, California (and the rest of the US) will be in a much better place..
                            The RTR Nightmare- Electric King of Shaves
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                            • Bill-SOCAL
                              Fast Electric Addict!
                              • Nov 2007
                              • 1404

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Darin Jordan
                              Bill... I don't think I AM missing the point...
                              But you are. The point is that despite the demographics of our political makeup what cripples California and is responsible for the mess we are in is HOW we make laws and HOW we do our budget.

                              We pass laws based on popular vote. Even when the legislature passes something the referendum process can over ride it. Same with court decisions. Look at the gay marriage situation. Odd that THE No. 1 liberal state voted that down isn't it?

                              The 2/3 majority needed to pass a budget is what kills us. We end up in grid lock every year with one party or the other holding the entire process hostage. Democrats hold 63% of the seats in our legislature. So the Republican minority holds them hostage. This means your concept of Liberal gone wild is simply not true because of the way our political process works especially with respect to the annual budget.

                              If the numbers were swapped, the problems would remain since the minority party will ALWAYS have the ability to deadlock the process. And regardless of who holds the power the fact remains that only 10% of the annual budget is ever really up for adjustment because the voter referendum process has locked the other 90% in.

                              Like I keep saying, it is far more complicated than simply saying the California is THE most liberal state (which is alos wrong) and that what we do will be what the country does. That simply cannot happen because the US Congress is not set up the same way with respect to the actual legislative process.
                              Don't get me started

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