Littlescreamers 63mmwater jacketed Motor

[Littlescreamers]

Steven had asked me to post a little something about our new water jacketed outrunners we are producing. This is a project I have been working on for some time now and am very excited to be able to show off what we have coming out soon. I am posting some pictures as it is way simpler to show you how it work then to explain it.

I will give it a shot!

The internal cooling works by passing cold water through a bell attached at the end of the motor, This bell is removable and is sealed with 2 O-rings one front and one rear. this bell is completely enclosed and sealed, No water can enter the motor or the shaft as the bearing on the end is outside the bell and sealed with the O-ring. (see pic) Inside this bell is an extension of the bearing tube witch also holds the stator, Now on this extension I have machined cooling fins to absorb the heat with the water passing over these colling fins and the whole things is Aluminum so it wil act like a heat sink. So with this setup there will be no issues with heat and as all of it will be pulled strait from the motor and out the exit! The faster you go the better the cooling.

As of now we are going to release 3 versions of this design

1 for the Mini boats

1 for the mid size boats

And a competition 1/8th 1/10th scale motor


Here is a picture of the new production 63mm water jacketed motor for 1/8th and 1/10th

[properchopper]

Very interesting. What are the KV's ?

[Littlescreamers]

Very interesting. What are the KV's ?

Thats a good question. I am not sure what the finial KV will be we just had these done at around 650kv and I will adjust it as needed, i will have one being tested this weekend and then can give a little more on the targeted KV

Thanks
Scott

[Raydee]

That is NICE! I just read a post where they are having great success with the outrunner's in the large hulls. Water cooling them is even better, might possibly make inrunners a thing of the past in a few years.

[JimClark]

The ones being used up here in the Seattle Area in the bigger boatsd I don't think they are even watercooling them. They don't seem to get hot at all

[Littlescreamers]

then there not running them hard enough!

Scott

[JimClark]

There are a lot of people especially in Seattle that don't run to break speed records and run spec setups

[Steven Vaccaro]

Scott any updates on these?

[sailr]

Scott, you said you were gonna send me one of these?

[Littlescreamers]

Ok
I have a little more info on the motor.

This Large Water Jacketed Outrunner was designed for big boats 40-90". It will perform well as a drop in HP replacement for the Weed Eater type gas boats. Designed as a racing motor to run against the gas and will be competing in the racing scene beginning 2010. Testing so far in a 40+ Race hydro we are running 65-68 MPH and completing 7+ laps on 10s. This is very exciting for a low cost alternative motor to be running with the $600 Modified gas motors and the Large Neu inrunners. Testing continues and I will update soon!

These pictures are from the 55" Deep Vee I am doing a conversion on. I started with a new hull (Snagged from the LHS for $50 new in the box) and then bought all new Proboat hardware, I am waiting on an ESC and then I will finish this project. I am very excited to see this thing scream across the lake with the new power system.

Order one from Littlescreamers.com Today

KV650
Shaft 8mm
Watts?? 8,000


Scott

[Littlescreamers]

Here is a couple pictures of the XPS sponsored race boat. this is the boat all the testing has been done with.

[Doby]

Price????

[Littlescreamers]

OH Sorry,

MSRP $179.99 But we are running a sale of a small quantity to promote this new motor and you can order one today for $149.99 + Shipping.

Thanks
Scott

[properchopper]

Scott, any release info on a 4S, 1800 - 2200 KV motor ? I'm sure there's a big audience for something to compete with the Neu 1515 / 1521 types.

[Littlescreamers]

Working on that one now, I have 5 new motor designs going to the factory. 2 are smaller versions of this motor.
I will keep you all updated on how things are coming along.

Scott

[Ub Hauled]

I am interested in the 1/8 scale motor, how can I get a motor with a little more Kv, something in the neighborhood of 800Kv to 950Kv...
Also, what are the dimensions of the motor? What size of the bolt pattern? What is the water cooling nipple size? Warranty?
One more thing, about the 8000w, is that constant draw or spikes? 'Cause having a motor pulling 216 amps constantly is pretty grueling...
even more so if on 8s.

This is looking good Scott.

[Littlescreamers]

I am interested in the 1/8 scale motor, how can I get a motor with a little more Kv, something in the neighborhood of 800Kv to 950Kv...That will have to wait until our next order.
Also, what are the dimensions of the motor? It is 63mmx117mm with a 8mm shaftWhat size of the bolt pattern? 40mm 6mm bolts What is the water cooling nipple size? It is drilled for a 1/8th brass tube but I will be installing large nipples at the factory in the next batch. Warranty? All our motors have a 2 year Warranty
One more thing, about the 8000w, is that constant draw or spikes? 'Cause having a motor pulling 216 amps constantly is pretty grueling... That is a rated number. Not what your going to be getting.
even more so if on 8s.

This is looking good Scott.

Scott:Peace_Sign:

[Ub Hauled]

Scott:Peace_Sign:

Thanks for the answers Scott, I'll be following this thread closely...

[REBAR]

Ok
I have a little more info on the motor.

This is very exciting for a low cost alternative motor to be running with the $600 Modified gas motors. Testing continues and I will update soon!

Scott

Low cost compared to a $600 gas engine?:confused2:

How much will the esc and a few sets of batteries and a charger cost?

It would take at least 3 sets of battries, maybe 4 to keep you on the water like a gas engine.

[Steven Vaccaro]

Low cost compared to a $600 gas engine?:confused2:

How much will the esc and a few sets of batteries and a charger cost?

It would take at least 3 sets of battries, maybe 4 to keep you on the water like a gas engine.

Only on lakes and ponds where gas boats are allowed. :buttrock:

[Doby]

I just ordered one. Going to try it in my 42" Cat on 10S

[sailr]

Let us know how it works out and what kind of prop you can swing on 10S. Need to be a bigun' with such a low KV.

[wolf IV]

:spy::spy::spy:...........

[Steven Vaccaro]

I now have these in stock.
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=ls-63outrunner
Its one hell of a beast. Its a ton of motor for the money. Literally! :biggrin:

[Ub Hauled]

Sweet Steven... I hope to get a higher Kv version... what is the story on those?

[Steven Vaccaro]

Sweet Steven... I hope to get a higher Kv version... what is the story on those?

There has been a bunch of success wih this motor and kv, so as far as I know this is the kv for now.

Scott, designed the motor as a performance replacement for customers that what to replace modified zenoah motors. On 10s it will have more rpm and on 12s it will have much more rpm.

There was some talk of Zenoah motors and kv in this thread.
http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?t=12317&highlight=motor

[Doby]

I just ordered one. Going to try it in my 42" Cat on 10S

Mine still hasn't got here yet.:confused1:

[axel]

@steven

I´m very interested in that motor but to be competitiv it would be nessesary to get min 800rpm under load. i´m just converting a X-Ray from Hydro&Marine (1,38m) with a Scorpion 4035 with 800rpm(waiting for the Motor).

The Littlescreemer would be a good alternativ.
Greetings
Axel

[sailr]

I believe Scott is considering higher KV versions in the future. In the meantime, the 650KV will swing a huge prop! On 10S, the no load RPM is 24,050!

[Steven Vaccaro]

@steven

I´m very interested in that motor but to be competitiv it would be nessesary to get min 800rpm under load. i´m just converting a X-Ray from Hydro&Marine (1,38m) with a Scorpion 4035 with 800rpm(waiting for the Motor).

The Littlescreemer would be a good alternativ.
Greetings
Axel

That was discussed here
http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?t=12317&highlight=motor
The consensus was that this will have more rpm than a modified Zenoah, which should keep it right up with the pack. I haven't had the chance to test one. I hope to get a hull for the summer.

[Steven Vaccaro]

In the meantime, the 650KV will swing a huge prop! On 10S, the no load RPM is 24,050!

I agree, the bigger the prop, the better its efficiency. :buttrock:

[Doby]

I believe Scott is considering higher KV versions in the future. In the meantime, the 650KV will swing a huge prop! On 10S, the no load RPM is 24,050!

Agreed, my LMT 3080 in my Open Mono is a 12T (around 490 KV) and it hauls ass with a very large prop on 10S.

[RandyatBBY]

Scott look at this
Hello Randy,

thank you for the links.

Has the motor a third ball bearing for the can?

The mechanical loads on the motor are much higher in a boat (when the boat is jumping) than in a ducted fan.

Additional you have huge torque peaks in a boat but in a ducted fan and also with an airscrew you have constant torque.
So if a motor works well in a ducted fan or with an airscrew - it is no guarantee that the motor fits the application in a boat.

Plettenberg outrunners and large Hacker outrunner motors have always a third ball bearing to avoid mechanical forces on the rotor. Such a third ball bearing avoid resonance effects and prevent a contact between the rotor can and the stator.
HINT: Plettenberg makes no outrunners for boats, because outrunners have not enough dynamic torque for the torque peaks!

Best regards
Ulf Herder

Schulze Elektronik GmbH
Prenzlauer weg 6
64331 Weiterstadt
Germany

[video200]

There has been a bunch of success wih this motor and kv, so as far as I know this is the kv for now.

Scott, designed the motor as a performance replacement for customers that what to replace modified zenoah motors. On 10s it will have more rpm and on 12s it will have much more rpm.
t=12317&highlight=motor[/URL]

depending on how much rpm it looses when loaded it should proove one he.. of a replacement. my zenoah`s run between 12k rpm original up to 18200 race modefyed on 63-70mm props and they move pritty goo :biggrin::thumbup:

[Steven Vaccaro]

At 75% efficiency its about 18k. It should easily get that kind of efficiency. Otherwise its a 2 pound paper weight.

[RandyatBBY]

At 75% efficiency its about 18k. It should easily get that kind of efficiency. Otherwise its a 2 pound paper weight.

That is what I am looking for 18k RPM, but the amp draw remains to be seen. I need a eagle tree that can handle this setup any ideas? I really need to see what is being pulled, constant draw and spikes.

[Steven Vaccaro]

That is what I am looking for 18k RPM, but the amp draw remains to be seen. I need a eagle tree that can handle this setup any ideas? I really need to see what is being pulled, constant draw and spikes.

Well for testing sake, we can dictate the amp draw.
4500 watts divided by 37 volts is 121 amps. I understand its not exact, but its a start. Prop it for that and you should be ok. A regular eagle tree micro can handle that for testing purposes.

The guys that are testing it are using the hifei 200amp esc. I have the boat version on order.

[Ub Hauled]

Edit: It was a Medusa item... no longer in service.

[Steven Vaccaro]

Randy, have you seen this little fella (http://www.medusaproducts.com/oracle/index.htm)?

Its pretty cool. Doesn't look like the wire version is available yet. I wouldn't use the deans ones with 120-150 amps.

[RandyatBBY]

I am going to prop small and recharge after the run and see the amp draw. I will also be checking the temps to get it right on firday.

[Brushless55]

I just ordered one. Going to try it in my 42" Cat on 10S

That is what I'm looking to try out!
and these 42" cats should scream and kick some mod Zehn :rockon2:

[Brushless55]

I would also love to Build a Insane Gas Hydro with one of these motor, and run with the $1,000 mod gas motors on 10s, then go 12s to really make em grunt :bounce:

[RandyatBBY]

I ran the Motor in the pro Boat this weekend it ran great with a 455 prop in the 56MPH range and the motor was cold. I tried a biger prop a pitched up 460 it cavitated and needs a lot more testing . Videos soon it is up loading at this point.

For any one that needs a motor mount I do make them for any size rail.

[Doby]

Randy, were you running 10S2P?

[RandyatBBY]

Randy, were you running 10S2P?

Yes. RC Polly 5S1P 5000Mah 30C X4

[Doby]

Thanks!

[wolf IV]

well i may have to try one on 12's in my bud as i only have 4s packs lying around here.... what size prop are we talking on 12s in the 1/8 pro boat?

[6S HYDRO]

Yes. RC Polly 5S1P 5000Mah 30C X4

RANDY PLEASE BRING THIS BOAT FOR THE WINTER WARMUPS, I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THIS THING RIP AN EXHIBITION RUN. PLUS I WANNA SEE THE GAS GUYS JAWS DROP:thumbup:

[RandyatBBY]

I posted this under the Pro boat build but for any one not looking there hear it is too.
http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/4021/mvi2391.mp4.frm.jpg (http://img651.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mvi2391.mp4)

[RandyatBBY]

RANDY PLEASE BRING THIS BOAT FOR THE WINTER WARMUPS, I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THIS THING RIP AN EXHIBITION RUN. PLUS I WANNA SEE THE GAS GUYS JAWS DROP:thumbup:


Have you shown then this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cbf1RCgziDg

[6S HYDRO]

they're the type that have to see it in person to believe

[Doby]

I got mine last week, installed it in my 42" Cat:

A few observations:
1) Big motor thats not too heay compared to some of my big inrunners I have.

2) Very large power wires (nice)

3) Poor solderability on these wires (not nice). It took a lot of the most corrosive flux I had and cleaning of the wires with a steel brush to make a decent conection .

4) Lots of torque when powered up compared to an inrunner, my cat (on its stand) started slowly moving across my workbench when I was messing around with the throttle.

5) Probably as a result of the torque, it takes a looooong time for the prop to stop spinning when I get off the throttle.

6) No nipples installed for the water cooling, I had an old SV27 controller and canabalized the ones off of that to used on the motor, had to have the holes on the motor enlarged slightly and tapped. Would be nice if they came installed. When you buy a water jacket for your inrunner, they have them installed, but not on this motor??

I'll post some pics later,,,,water trials are still about a month off (hopefully)

Overall, a nice piece of hardware.

[Steven Vaccaro]

I
6) No nipples installed for the water cooling, I had an old SV27 controller and canabalized the ones off of that to used on the motor, had to have the holes on the motor enlarged slightly and tapped. Would be nice if they came installed. When you buy a water jacket for your inrunner, they have them installed, but not on this motor??


Doby you recieved one of the first few from Jim. OSE is now packing them with 638 glue and 90 degree fittings for the jackets so the customer can install them in any direction thats needed.

[sailr]

Steven, I can't find 638 glue on your site? Found the 90's but not the glue.


Doby you recieved one of the first few from Jim. OSE is now packing them with 638 glue and 90 degree fittings for the jackets so the customer can install them in any direction thats needed.

[Doby]

Doby you recieved one of the first few from Jim. OSE is now packing them with 638 glue and 90 degree fittings for the jackets so the customer can install them in any direction thats needed.

Thats great to know Steve. :rockon2:

Maybe next time, I won't be so "premature" ............with my orders.

[Steven Vaccaro]

Steven, I can't find 638 glue on your site? Found the 90's but not the glue.

I dont sell the 638, I include a small ziplock bag of it with the motors.

[Steven Vaccaro]

Thats great to know Steve. :rockon2:

Maybe next time, I won't be so "premature" ............with my orders.

It sounds like you figured out a good way of getting it done. Happy Ending of sorts. Now finds some moving water and get it tested!

[sailr]

Is it a type of loctite or epoxy or? Brand name? For those of us who will buy your 90 degree fittings and need a glue to hold 'em good!


I dont sell the 638, I include a small ziplock bag of it with the motors.

[axel]

I think Steven is talking about Loctite

Axel

[Steven Vaccaro]

I think Steven is talking about Loctite

Axel
thanks.

Its loctite 638. But there are others that can be used. Like 603.

[sailr]

OK, Great. I have some 603. Bought it from you I believe!

[Cat-Boi]

try mcmastercarr.com

I get all my locktite needs there...cheap too!

[RayR]

Jim,

How old is the 603? It has a very short shelf life once opened.

Ray

[MarkF]

Well I tryed this motor today in my Insane mono and I must say that I'm a little disappointed. I ran it on 10s 2p 10,000 mah Thunder power 25c cells and a Castle HV 240 controller. The controller worked great by the way on this motor. I thought this motor would be able to swing a gas size prop. It can't. I started with a 6517 prop and then went down to 6515 prop. It wouldn't get on step with these props. (These are some of my mono props when I run the 2230 motor.) The smallest I had was an abc prop that was 6014 in size. Simular to a Octura 560. It finally got on step and I would put the boat at high 40s maybe 50 mph. I did 4 laps with the 460 prop and when I checked the motor it was hot to the touch. I think Randy was more in the ball park with the 455 prop. Maybe a 457 or 460 would work. I had the 1/4 prop stub on my boat today so I couldn't try any smaller props. I will switch out the prop shafts and give this motor one more try. I also dont like that you can't support the rear end of the motor. I thought this motor would compare somewhere between my 2215 and 2230 motors. It doesn't. My 2215 2y motor has more grunt, can swing a bigger prop, is lighter and is faster due to the higher KV. I'm sure there's a little more there with this motor but its not going to compete with a gas motor in a big gas boat. I'll check back after I run this motor some more.

Mark

Mark

[m4a1usr]

Are you running the 650kv motor Mark? Too hot to the touch doesnt sound good on that prop.

John

[MarkF]

I assume its the 650 KV. Do they make other winds?

Mark

[m4a1usr]

I assume its the 650 KV. Do they make other winds?

Mark

Their 800kv version is supposed to be out sometime soon. I was wondering if you might have received one of the first ones to test. Its been on my radar for a large mono build.

John

[sailr]

probably a year old. Bummer! I've made up a few shafts with it. Always tightly capped. Climate controlled environment.


Jim,

How old is the 603? It has a very short shelf life once opened.

Ray

[MarkF]

Well I tryed the motor on some smaller props and the results weren't any better. I understand that the castle doesn't run this motor very good from what I have been told so I will hold off on testing untill I can get a different controller. Maybe there is still hope for this motor.

Mark

[Littlescreamers]

Yes I was gong to come in here and tell everyone that the Castle Creations ESC's do not play nice with our motor. I know from the testing done that the motor will run hot and not turn the props needed to get the speed. Using a Hobby King Turnigy monster 2000 it runs great and does not get hot. The dif was when using the cc we could not get better then about 55-58 and all was hot. using the other ESC we get 65+mph and nothing gets hot. It all in the esc.

I did not want to go out and say "Do not use this esc" but it is the truth.

Scott

[Doby]

Ummm, before I bought the motor I PM'd you about whether my CC 180 HV would be OK and you said it would be fine.......now we get a different story??????

I assumed I would not need a different controller to get the best performance out of your motor,,,,now the price I paid doesn't seem all that much of a deal.

[Littlescreamers]

We will figure this out!

Scott

[Littlescreamers]

I talked to the R&D dept and they sent me over this.

Please give this a try and let us know how it works,


Hi again
Well I went back to the oldest version I could (2.11) and set the motor timing at low and 8khz and it works. I don't know why but it works.the only thing unusual is it stutters at wot.Bring it back a notch on the throttle and this stops. Also on the other firmware the voltage dropped very quickly and it shut down. The temp of the ESC was 83 degrees C. Now the LVC doesn't happen at all and the temp is only 35 C.after a run. any ideas?
thanks again
Steve.

I have been told that if you can find version 1.54 it will run the motors the best we have ever seen. But it is not on there site anymore.

Our reply
Advance the timing one setting above low and problem solved with the stutter and no need to back TH off a little.

DO NOT USE OUTRUNNER MODE

We have only 6 magnets in our bell and this setting is for motors with more magnets and does not like our configuration.

[Brushless55]

I'm thinking its in the timing..
each motor runs better with different settings

[Littlescreamers]

This is our new project. 92" long and running a twin Littlescreamers Hurricane 63mm outrunner water jacketed motors.

More info to come.

From the R&D dept,

Scott

[Brushless55]

Oh man that's SWEET!

[Littlescreamers]

Or how about this one??? :popcorn2:

23"

All Carbon:bounce:


Scott

[bvincent]

Hi Guys!
My name is Bob and I am the R&D department for Littlescreamers. I've been watching the posts here all week while waiting for my forum account to be validated. Now that I can post, let me try to help with a few things :cool:

Castle Controllers are great! Problem is they never leave their firware alone. They are constantly trying to improve which is great, but it makes it very hard to keep up with settings that work. Settings that work on version 3.14 do NOT work on later versions. So when telling us about issues please be sure you mention which version of firmware you have so I can keep my files updated and give you the best possible settings information.

Now with all that said, let's make some rooster tails! :cool:

[Brushless55]

Or how about this one??? :popcorn2:

33"

All Carbon:bounce:

Nice, but I think it's to narrow? :confused2:

[bvincent]

Oh no :D It RIPS!!! It uses 2 of our smaller motors and it really performs. We can't show video of it yet, but maybe by the weekend the builder will release the info ;) The smaller boat is 23" not 33".

[Steven Vaccaro]

I've been watching the posts here all week while waiting for my forum account to be validated.

Bob welcome to the forum. I will have to check into why it took all week. We activate accounts every morning, except Wednesdays and some Sundays.

[bvincent]

Hi Steve! I wasn't complaining eh :D Glad to be onboard!

[Steven Vaccaro]

Hi Steve! I wasn't complaining eh :D Glad to be onboard!

I understand, but being the impatient person that I am I hate to see someone have to wait so long. :Peace_Sign:

[MarkF]

Bob, the castle boat controllers dont have any of the airplane features. You only have 1 firmware to choose from and you can only adjust your timing and low voltage cutoff and thats about it. I ran this motor on normal timing and low timing. It worked great on both. It just didn't have any of the speed I was hearing about. I dont have any other controllers to try with this motor. I am doing this testing for Jeff Michaud at insane boats. We would like to see this motor work so if you got a controller that I can borrow I will give it another try. I own several Neu 2215 and 2230 motors and know what there capable of and would like to see this motor fall in there somewere between the two. I talked to Castle as well and they said they didn't know when they would upgrade the firmware on the boat controllers. By the way I do follow the jet forums so I know what this motor is capable of.

Mark

[bvincent]

Thanks Mark. We are getting controllers now to test with. We know that the XPS Hydro is using the Turnigy Monster 2000 and there was a HUGE difference in performance. Like I said, Castle is awesome, but their firmware is based around Large inrunner motors. We are working with another company (soon to be named :cool: ) and they are using the HV-240 water cooled esc. We will be running some stuff this weekend so I will get first hand knowledge of what's going on.

What esc was used in the video posted a couple pages back? That seemed to work pretty well? I don't have any data logged from that run, but it looked and sounded good.

[MarkF]

Bob, I think he was using the Schulze 40-160. I would get the turnigy controller but I'm saving all my pennies to get the Schulze 40-300 for my SAW boat.
Bob, I dont know if you remember me but you have met me at the midwinter electrics a couple of times. Troy Peterson usually hangs out in my pit and you would have seen me then. I fly F5d and F5B as well as lots of stuff inbetween. I use to do boats before airplanes and I was national high point champion back in 1998. I then started the electric only SAW event in Los Angeles which is where most of the records were made in NAMBA. I am the current record holder in T Mono and have broke numerous other records over the years. If you would like help with boat testing I would be glad to help. I live in orange County and test out at Legg lake. I know Jeff at Insane boats would like to see this motor work out as would others. Let me know if there's anything I can do for you.

Mark
949-525-1644

[bvincent]

Thanks Mark! I'm using this weekend to get ready for CA Jets at the end of the month. Maybe we can hook up next weekend at the lake?

[Ub Hauled]

edit

[Doby]

Hi Guys!
My name is Bob and I am the R&D department for Littlescreamers. I've been watching the posts here all week while waiting for my forum account to be validated. Now that I can post, let me try to help with a few things :cool:

Castle Controllers are great! Problem is they never leave their firware alone. They are constantly trying to improve which is great, but it makes it very hard to keep up with settings that work. Settings that work on version 3.14 do NOT work on later versions. So when telling us about issues please be sure you mention which version of firmware you have so I can keep my files updated and give you the best possible settings information.

Now with all that said, let's make some rooster tails! :cool:



So the best settings for a CC Hydra 180HV with version 1.04 firmware would be??

[MarkF]

Doby, Bob was referring to the airplane controllers. The only thing you can play with on the Hydra is the timing. I didn't see much difference between low and normal. You will have to play with it to see what works for you.

Mark

[justintime2w8]

Ok this is a real dumb question, But how many people are running 1/4" flex with these 63mm motors. Or 3/16"?

[Ub Hauled]

Ok this is a real dumb question, But how many people are running 1/4" flex with these 63mm motors. Or 3/16"?

if you are running anything on 10s you should be running 1/4 flex...
the prop shaft is a choice between 3/16 (more prop choices) or 1/4 if you
know what you are doing with big props.

[Jeff Wohlt]

Can anyone tell me the shaft length when running these big set ups? I will be making the 1/4" cables with a step down 3/16" stub end and std 1/4" shaft soon. I guess I should know the length as well for most set ups.

These will be silver brazed.

[Ub Hauled]

Jeff,
I think it will depend on the strut one uses... I use the standard, 1/4 cable w/step down to 3/16
that I got a long time ago, if it still the same it is 4" long (just stub)

[s.sm.21]

Scott is the motor mount braket proboat or did you make it and will it fit in a magnum 57 warehouse hobbies v hull,if so what it the proboat stock numbers for the mounting braket hardware.Nice
Ok
I have a little more info on the motor.

This Large Water Jacketed Outrunner was designed for big boats 40-90". It will perform well as a drop in HP replacement for the Weed Eater type gas boats. Designed as a racing motor to run against the gas and will be competing in the racing scene beginning 2010. Testing so far in a 40+ Race hydro we are running 65-68 MPH and completing 7+ laps on 10s. This is very exciting for a low cost alternative motor to be running with the $600 Modified gas motors and the Large Neu inrunners. Testing continues and I will update soon!

These pictures are from the 55" Deep Vee I am doing a conversion on. I started with a new hull (Snagged from the LHS for $50 new in the box) and then bought all new Proboat hardware, I am waiting on an ESC and then I will finish this project. I am very excited to see this thing scream across the lake with the new power system.

Order one from Littlescreamers.com Today

KV650
Shaft 8mm
Watts?? 8,000


Scott

[cybercrxt]

Let me just say this, lol. I just got my Little Screamers motor in the mail today, haha, and there is not a damn thing "Little" about this motor! Its going to push around my 1/8th scale hydroplane project like its a joke! It has 8 gauge wires coming out of it! Mike

[blackcat26]

Would this be a good choice for a 10th scale hydro? Or is this waaaay too much motor?

[cybercrxt]

Holy crap, no way to much! This motor is as big as a Coke can!

[RandyatBBY]

Would this be a good choice for a 10th scale hydro? Or is this waaaay too much motor?

It is way too much motor for a 1/10 scale.

I am wanting to do a test and see if it can be run on a 3/16 shaft. 3/16 flex are pretty stout might make it. I am going to run one on 8S and see what is will do in a 45 inch cat.

[blackcat26]

Thanks guys I figured it would not. Guess I was just hoping, since they are a cheaply priced power source.

[bvincent]

Not "cheap" :) "inexpensive" ;)

[blackcat26]

LoL...Yeah. That's what I meant. This motor makes me want to build a gianourmous boat around it!

[justintime2w8]

Or an even more gianormous boat around two of them. LOL

[bvincent]

Right on Justin !! I have a surprise for Rad that came in the mail today ;) "They" will make that Ginormous boat haul booty!!!!!!

[bvincent]

Hey Justin,
I just noticed the website link on your post :cool: You guys are "out" now huh? SWEET!!!!!! Now we can put a link on our site to yours too :cool:

[justintime2w8]

Yup, we figured it was as good a time as any. I can't wait for the Little Screamer/92" test run. Shouldn't be too long now.
I guess you saw your link on our site.

[bvincent]

Sure did :cool: This is going to be a FUN spring and summer!! :cool:

[sharkbite]

so will the.... Castle Creations Phoenix ICE HV 160A 50V
work?

[bvincent]

I'm still waiting to see the little boat with our motors in it. It should be faster than it was in the first vid.

[justintime2w8]

Oh yea, it will be a fun summer for sure.
The 24" should be a ton faster, those in the first video were the junkiest in-runners on the planet, just ran them because they were in hand. One burnt after two runs. You should be thrilled about that, if we get four runs out of yours that would make your motors twice as good. LOL

[Littlescreamers]

Here is a video I did a few years ago with one of the small Littlescreamers Water jacketed Motors.

Scott

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rH-Py2Q2mo

[RandyatBBY]

Hear is the Mono mount I did. It is a little hard to bend the bottom lugs but it will work. Sorry about the blury picture it is packed and ready to mail.
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/3518/monolsmount.jpg (http://img62.imageshack.us/i/monolsmount.jpg/)

[Xfactor]

Hey I want one of these motors but I question the warranty policy. To me there is no warranty .Re-purchasing something at half price isnt a warranty to me.It pays you for fixing a motor that failed, but thats no warranty. I mean I think you have a killer product but Its hard for me to buy it when "It seems" the maker wants all the loss to fall on my shouders. Notice I said seems. I dont want to get blasted. The scorpion is 4035 is my other option. Id rather buy the little screamer but Id like to see Little Screamers Develop a real warranty thats comparable to the competition. A limited warranty at least on defective materials and workmanship. A warranty that shows little screamers willingness to fully stand behind their product.The current warranty policy implies to me that Little Screamers is worried about taking a loss behind their motors. I can understand that because neither do I.I wish that I could have found a better way to say this because I dont want anyone to think Im hatin on Scott and Little Screamers but lets face it as you get more attention for your product,so too will the scrutiny of product increase.I kinda feel bad because I know everyone is thinking that Im trying to rain on a parade Im not. Im just not rich and this decision has really been bothering me.I finally decided to post this comment and hopefully the guys at Little Screamers will offer me some type of assurance that I wont regret buying this motor.For the record I dont think the motor will fail but admittedly I'm a little worried about that warranty.

[Xfactor]

How many poles and stator arms does this motor have?Randy you got any update on prop selection for this motor?

[bvincent]

Well the warranty does cover free replacement for material and workmanship issues. If you burn it up, it has a 50% cost to replace it. As to you other question, it is a 6 pole motor with 9 stator heads.

[Xfactor]

Thanks B, What would burn it up?Cause I havent seen any numbers without question marks behind them. Whats the max amp draw? Whats the max voltage?What is the stall torque?Whats the idle current? Whats the overall resistance of the motor

[Littlescreamers]

Wow that was a mouth full!

Concerning the Warranty at Littlescreamers.com, All motors have a 2 year Warranty.
free replacement for material and workmanship issues. The Warranty was written that way for replacements. People bash them up, Over amp them, Over prop them, And on and on.

I edited the site to include the text that was forgotten when we built this site. the old site said all this.

I am new to building sites and this one was a chore starting from scratch. Still needs mass work

Scottt

[Xfactor]

Thank you Scott. I really appreciate your help and the fact that you didnt get offended by my statements.Like I said before I just wanted to have some assurance that If I had a problem with the motor I would get some support. Now that thats out of the way;do you have any in stock? By the way are you hand winding these motors? or are they machine wound?

[Littlescreamers]

No problem!

As for a motor? Please buy one from OffShoreElectrics.com as they are now carrying them.

Thanks
Scott

[RandyatBBY]

No problem!

As for a motor? Please buy one from OffShoreElectrics.com as they are now carrying them.

Thanks
Scott

I stock them too.

[Xfactor]

The OSE store says out of stock. I dont see a place to buy the motor on your site Randy.

[RandyatBBY]

The OSE store says out of stock. I dont see a place to buy the motor on your site Randy.
You can order by PM, email or phone call.

[K.R.Joye]

[QUOTE=Xfactor;165850]The scorpion is 4035 is my other option. Id rather buy the little screamer but Id like to see Little Screamers Develop a real warranty thats comparable to the competition.QUOTE]

Comparing a Scorpion 4035 to a Big Screamer is like comparing grapes to grapefruit. The Screamer dwarfs the HK in size, weight and potential output. Both will put out similiar power on 8-10S1P Lipo, on 12-14S the Screamer makes big power(watts).

The Big Screamer is designed for Heavy Gas Boat conversions(16+lbs), while the Scorpion works best with lighter RTR FE setups under 16lbs. Another words i wouldn't run the Screamer in a typical FE 1/10 or 1/8 scale your just adding ballast(BTW Pro-Boats are not legal 1/8 scales). The Big Screamer will prove to be the economical choice for Gas Hydro, Cat, Mono hulls(44" plus) & Pro Boat conversions.

Scott has a very successful proven track record with the Little Screamer motors. I have no doubt the Big Screamer follow in its footsteps. :beerchug:

[Xfactor]

Thank you Mr Joyle but Scott has already cleared this up with me, and obviously I know the difference between 4200 watts(scorpion) and 8000 watts(littlescreamer) If you read closely I wasnt comparing performance I was comparing warranty policy.I would be running this engine in a circus conversion.

[K.R.Joye]

Yfactor if you read what i said you wouldn't be putting the Screamer motor in a typical 1/8 scale.

[Xfactor]

Why not? Im not racing in any sanctioned events. I do it for the 20 year love of it.Oh well.

[Xfactor]

Id rather add weight in the form of a bigger and more powerful motor thats economical versus lead shot all over the place. People have to satisfy their own needs. This is mine.

[Brushless55]

Yfactor if you read what i said you wouldn't be putting the Screamer motor in a typical 1/8 scale.

strange becasue there is two or three builds I know of that are doing just this..

[Xfactor]

Of course there are . You cant beat the price for the power. In my situation my hull is a nitro hull made out of birch and mahoghany its not light like the newer balsa and foam fe 1/8th scales that folks are building now.Randy estimates his proboat at 56mph barely pulling 60 amps running a x455.I have a x457 I plan to try first.The nitro sites recomend a x460, so somewhere in that range. Plus with the added power . I can run some 1400 series and 1600 series props. I imagine Id like to see about 100 amps put on that motor at 10s lipo. That should put me around ~5 horse.Dont get Me wrong if you look at Mr joyles stats he knows scales. I think he just thought that because it was a scale boat that I intended on running in santioned events. The motor is plenty of power for just about anything 40" or bigger.

[Brushless55]

I would like to try this motor in a 41" Falcon Cat

[Xfactor]

Hey check this link out. A nice looking 41 inch cat on ebay seller "Head of The river".http://cgi.ebay.com/41-fibre-glass-catamaran-hull-for-23-26cc-gas-engine_W0QQitemZ300368001109QQihZ020QQcategoryZ256 4QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286.m7QQ_trkparmsZalgo% 3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D3%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%2 6clkid%3D8538226893261662446 It has such a sleek bowline reminds me of a cajun bass boat. I dont know about the hatch. Maybe it will look alot better after paint. But It's only 145.00 hard to beat. Looks like a perfect screamer project. This site sells some seemingly good hulls for cheap.

[K.R.Joye]

I wish you guys luck with your 8th scale builds, just keep in mind on 10S1P both motors(Scorpion 4035 & Big Screamer) put about the same power 3500-4000 watts(8000w doesn't kick-in unless your running 14S). The Screamer ads 1.5 lbs over the Scorpion, then if you go 2P add another 2-3lbs. I've raced against 20-22 lbs scales they require larger expensive ESCs and don't turn and handle as good as a 16lb scale. But since your not intending on racing, have FUN!

[Xfactor]

Yes But the scorpion only wants to see 100 amps continuous an x457 on 10s puts it around 115 amps so I imagine that motor may start to get warm. The extra weight of the motor is fine in my case cause my hull is only 8 pounds empty. The scorpion has no water cooling. Lastly I just want the headroom. My minds not set but I could use either. The Dean of my engineering department and myself are designing a 60 volt 200 amp controller. The problem is the mosfets are there with the appropriate ratings but the majority of suitable mosfets are case limited to about 120 amps,meaning that they get hotter than they can stand before they ever reach their theoretical max amp rating.. The main thing is to get them cool and make sure the traces of the pcb can handle the amp draw.

[RandyatBBY]

My 1/8 scale Hydros come out at about 3 pounds empty and that is heavy built. a 8 pound hull is a bit heavy.

[Brushless55]

I wish you guys luck with your 8th scale builds, just keep in mind on 10S1P both motors(Scorpion 4035 & Big Screamer) put about the same power 3500-4000 watts(8000w doesn't kick-in unless your running 14S). The Screamer ads 1.5 lbs over the Scorpion, then if you go 2P add another 2-3lbs. I've raced against 20-22 lbs scales they require larger expensive ESCs and don't turn and handle as good as a 16lb scale. But since your not intending on racing, have FUN!

Looks to me 4 1/2hp to 5 1/2hp in a 8th scale hydro that you don't have to get up on pipe, is more than enough for some good racing!

[bvincent]

We are goofing around with a 45" Cat with this on 12 cells, and I can tell you that when you hit the throttle this thing just leaps forward and blasts off! We haven't let it "run" yet and it's over 70mph easily. A bit more trimming and we will let it really run! Just need to be sure it won't blow over.

[Xfactor]

Randy that was just the weight the Dumas circus came out to be. I didnt do anything in particular to make it heavy. The plywood and mahoghany are just heavy.The motor and batteries wont take me over 16 pounds; If they do not much more.Randy are you considering "empty" with all the running hardware installed?That is what i meant by empty. All the hardware installed : Rudder,drive shaft, strut,turnfin,and radio gear just no motor, batteries, or speed control.What do you recomend Mr. Joye or Randy.I ask one of you because I know your experience with 1\8th scales is more than mine. If I just want a fast toy you guys still dont think the screamer is a true option for me?Price is always an issue.Ill never need 8000 watts but isnt headroom ok? My way of thinking says that i can run the scorpion at almost the max continuous amperage or I can run a screamer and barely push it to get what I want. I still need you guys expert advice.I want to get my motor ordered by Friday so please help me out.

[MarkF]

I just ran this motor again in my speedfreek sport hydro this time. 10s 2p 10000 mah thunder power 30c cells, 460 prop and a castle HV240. This boat is a true gas hydro and weighs in around 20+ lbs RTR. I would say the boat runs in the high 50s. After my run the bats and controller were only warm and the motor was hot but not overly. This motor is not what you guys think it is. I would say it has the power of a Neu 2215 but with 100 rpm less KV. They need to up the KV and maybe the pole count if they want to compete against the Neu or a gas motor. The gas sport boats as my 10s neu 2230 powered ones are doing 70+ mph. I can push 80 mph on 12s. I still think this is a great motor for the price and I hope they can work out any changes they can do to make it even better. By the way propper chopper was at the lake today and got some video of my boat so you guys can see what it looks like when he post it. I think it looks good for a sport set up.
Bob, Radek has contacted me to help him with his testing since I am local to him. I will let you guys know how that goes as well.
Mark

[bvincent]

Well funny you mention pole counts. We are making the newer version in 8 poles and 770 Kv :cool: We won't have these for a month or maybe more, but we are listening and learning from you guys :cool:

[bvincent]

Mark, I want to be there when you guys hook up. Please let me know. Rad will tell me too, but I for sure want to be there.

[MarkF]

Sounds good Bob, I have lots of props to try ( over 50 ) I told Radek too to let me know when he's ready to actually run the boat before I come over. I will bring some of my boats as well.

Mark

[m4a1usr]

By the way propper chopper was at the lake today and got some video of my boat so you guys can see what it looks like when he post it. I think it looks good for a sport set up.


Right on Mark. You tell Tony to get the Youtube loaded. I want to see!


John

[Xfactor]

How many poles is the motor? When I asked I couldnt get any answers.An increase in poles will also change the timing requirements. I said that cause u guys had an ealier dicussion about casltle speed controls and their compatibility with these motors. Note: firmware updates dont fix everything thats wrong with a speed control or any microcontroller based device if it doesnt already have the hardware to suport the changes. The timing of any motor of this type can be easily calculated as long as you know the number of stator arms and poles.Ill be glad when all these people design speed controls that go with their specific motors and someone needs to design a closed loop setup on one of these sensorless bldc motors to impliment torque lock or some type of anti cavitation. that would help deal with the amp spikes these motors and esc's take. Id love to see a scope trace of one of these electric boats as they run bouncing all over the place. Motor sees a load then it dont sees a load then it dont.Imagine the function of the graph if anyone knows what im talking about.Also I notice every one just punches their boats out from a standstill it looks cool but thats the surge that kills the speed controls . I imagine a cavitating prop catching water at 20 grand probably give you a nice amp spike too ya think? Also try not to make your speed transitions so sudden on the water. Be gradual with the throttles.Thought on the castles if the castles power blocks are purely n-fets then they have a floating supply thats what the caps on board are for(likely).If that speed control was designed around a specific rpm range the R/C (resistive capacitive) circuit has to be calculated and the caps have to be selected to ramp up and discharge fast enough to accomodate the pole changes as the motor turns and the fets need to drive the waveforms from positive to negative.Most of the big stuff is likely this way because their is less high amperage selection amongst p-fets than n-fets . So castle is who you need to ask if the screamer will work right with their esc. Scott you guys need to know the appropriate timing for your motor. As for the chinese stuff its not the manufacturer its the desingner so a speed control from there has just a much likelyhood to be good or junk as the expensive stuff. For a true boat motor and speed control to be good they need to be designed specifically for that purpose. Please dont confuse the caps im talking about with the external caps that everyone is adding those are merely stiffning the voltage supply line. Nuff said
X

[bvincent]

X Factor,
You are wrong ;) I did post all that info when you asked. This thread just moved a couple pages and you missed it. I said it has 6 magnet poles and 9 stator heads. The new version will be 8 magnet poles and 12 stator heads.

[Xfactor]

Im sorry my friend I didnt see it. I wasnt slighting yall my friends i was only trying to help.

[bvincent]

No Worries, I just didn't want you to think your request was ignored or forgotten :cool:

[Xfactor]

The castles should hopefully be able to handle that new setup its 15 degree timing on that dont quote me cuz im remembering that from my head. Ill let you know for sure I have to draw a diagram so make sure im write. But Mark is correct more poles will give u a "torquier" motor excuse my bad english.I think you guys understand that there is a great need for a motor of this type and price to run scale boats. While everyone including myself is telling the guys at screamer what they need id like to offer any help I can give just pm me. Properly designing a motor for a specific application is a daunting task.Esc are just as bad. I hope the processor in those casltes arent the problem because processing speed limits the maximum rpm a speed control can drive a motor as well. Slow processors could cause timing issues and cog a motor or have fets shorting across one another.

[Xfactor]

If you want to put some easy money in your r and d dept. Design us some of those trick watercool jackets for other outrunners . You feel me? Thats where ya cash is. Do this before you become a victim of team zerox lol. Patent your water collar if you can.

[Brushless55]

Well funny you mention pole counts. We are making the newer version in 8 poles and 770 Kv :cool: We won't have these for a month or maybe more, but we are listening and learning from you guys :cool:

sounds great man! :thumbup1:

[Ub Hauled]

I'd be down for one of those 8 pole 770Kv motors... looking forward to it.

[Himalaya]

Or how about this one??? :popcorn2:

23"

All Carbon:bounce:


Scott

It looks more like a Carbon-Kevlar mix woven hull.:smile:

[K.R.Joye]

XFACTOR heres my advice, the Screamer(in its current state) is a great sport motor(per Mark F.) for GAS Hull conversions. I have built 2 Dumas scales with the same architecture as your Circus. Unless you heavily modify the hull you wont be able to package the Screamer, XL ESC and 10S2P Lipo into the hull. Even if you modify the boat if will be a pain working on the powertrain plus you will have a heavy boat. Go with the Scorpion, thats what i run in my (Dumas) Atlas. It will get you into the low 60s with the right setup(50-52mm prop), timing setting #2. Install the Screamer in Large Monos or Cats where you have plenty of room to package it.

SCOTT/ VINCENT you know the 770 kv motor will be the ticket for the high speed EDF guys and the serious bigboat racers. Rumors have been flying about this Kv wind for a while now. I know its probably going to need a few more amps to run than the current wind. Thanks for bringing it out(Scott, told you so)! Now i have to buy another Screamer. These monsters marine motors are so cool!

[Xfactor]

Will the new version have the same can diameter?

[bvincent]

Exactly the same, you will not be able to tell them apart frm looking at them :cool:

[MarkF]

Here's the video Tony took of my boat.

Mark

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymR2CwxM-No

[Littlescreamers]

Nice! What kind of speed do you think you were getting??

She handles the water nice.

Scott

[Xfactor]

Looks good to me. Id like to see it on 12s.

[bvincent]

Hi Mark,
What EXACT motor are you comparing us against? What Kv? How many amps are we pulling on 10S with ours and the current "Hor" set up?

[Littlescreamers]

Me too!

In the mean time we need info! If you have one of these motors and have ran it please post your setup.
We need setups and props and battery sizes and ratings so we can move forward. We are working very hard to bring you just what you want. But we will need your help to get there.

Thanks
Scott

[bvincent]

Hi Mark,
Do you have a video of the other motor in the same boat? I'd like to see it as well :cool:

[Littlescreamers]

that video is now on our main page of the website as this weeks featured video!

Scott

[Xfactor]

Based on randys run It could swing a x460/x457 with ease. I know the motor calc on a scorpion 4035 800 spits out 115 amps with a 457 @69 mph. Theres som footage of someone running a scorpion 4035 800 with an x 457 on 10s lipo and he's gps at 64mph thats pretty close.Somebody try a true nitro prop on this beast like a 1655 or 1657 its on youtube just type in scorpion 4035

[MarkF]

My setup is in post 138. I have no data logging equipment so I dont have anything more than that. Best I can do is next time out I can do a certain number of laps and see how much mah my packs used up. Bob if you could bring some data equipment with you then we can put it in the boat when we go out together. This is the only video I can find of my boat. Sorry its my SAW setup so different 2230 motor than my norm. Ist pass was 95 mph and the second one was 105 mph. I will glady swap motors Bob when we go test so you can see first hand. I know the boat looks good but the speed is deceiving in the video. If you could see it run with another gas boat you would know what I'm talking about.
Mark
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4b7N-rvZtM

[Xfactor]

It seems like the screamer would compare more to the new 1900zr series nue's for gas conversions

[bvincent]

Mark,
I am building a new motor to take for our test session ;) I will try and have a 770 Kv and an 820 Kv so we can just swap onsite after we run them. I think Scott has the GPS expander for the ET logger. I have the logger with rpm sensor so we can get good info, but if we have the GPS too we can get exact info to cross test/compare :cool: Trust me guys, those that don't know me, we don't EVER want to be "just another" motor!! We go after it to be THE BEST option out there!! If my boat/car/jet can't be the fastest one at the event then I'm not done working yet!

[MarkF]

I had a garmin GPS to through in the boat as well but I was in kind of a hurry to get out of the lake before traffic started and I forgot to put it in the boat. I'm not sure that I'm getting all there is with my castle controller so a different one would be nice if you have one for me to borrow before we go.

Mark

[questtek]

Mark, Where are you located? I am having the guys down to my home on the lake at Lake Forest on the Monday after the SAWs event at the end of March. I have lots of onboard monitoring equipment if you need it for testing. Last weekend with WOlf V I had 3 different GPS units, (Garmin, Eagle Tree and Custom 15 gram GPS logger), in a 33" mono on 4s to compare speeds....all at 50 within a few tenths.

[MarkF]

Hi Joe, I posted in your other thread that I wanted to come. I live in Orange and I have run boats in your lake before a long time ago. I just had a couple of interviews though so I may be back to work before then. If not then I want to come. I may pop up at the saws event with something to through in the water as well.

Mark

[Xfactor]

When will the new motors be ready?

[Xfactor]

Still waiting on when those new motors are going to be ready? Im ready to shop; my money is burning my pocket.

[bvincent]

Well funny you mention pole counts. We are making the newer version in 8 poles and 770 Kv :cool: We won't have these for a month or maybe more, but we are listening and learning from you guys :cool:

Xfactor,
Post #139 from last week :biggrin:

[Xfactor]

So would you take orders now? Do you have any 650 kv in stock?

[bvincent]

We have 650Kv in stock ;)

[Xfactor]

I just pm'ed you did you get it? Hit me back?

[Xfactor]

Did you guys get a chance to run it this weekend?

[bvincent]

No, we have a HUGE event for us this weekend at CA Jets. I was busy finishing a couple Large EDF's for this event using this same motor in a ducted fan without the water jacket. After this upcoming weekend I hope myself, Mark , and Radek can meet at the lake and really get after it :thumbup1:

[Xfactor]

Planes-BIG MONEY dagg, those things are sweet.

[Xfactor]

What esc are you using?

[bvincent]

Ice 160 in the plane, and on the test stand a Phoenix HV-110

[Rumdog]

Do you guys have a potential release dat for motors with higher kv yet? I NEED one!!

[Gerwin Brommer]

Does Littlescreamer have a motor for 6S ?
Power/kv range -wise as a substitute for a lehner 2240/8 or Plettenberg 220/50
or a Feigao 580L ????????????

[pmisuinas]

Well, I bought one of these a guy had for sale, along with a Turnigy 200A Monster ESC. I then bought a hull off ebay (37" Aeromarine Shadow Sport 40), thinking I would put this motor into it so as to have something that would rip up the water. THEN I find this thread and realize that's not going to happen...:doh:

So I now have a system that either needs a new hull or a new owner. :o First thought is to get a hull. As I am looking more for personal fun than to be competitive (that may come later), just what is out there that would be a decent fit for this monster? I am looking for a hydro just because I like the looks, but if that's not really practical, then a deep vee or a cat would be considered. My first thought was a Dumas Circus kit, but reading about it indicated it would be a heavy boat and also at 42" still a bit small for this motor. In trying to find something else, I came across the Aeromarine Sport X (a 50" hull)--would this be a reasonable fit? Open to all suggestions, understanding my wallet does have its limits--or if someone really wants a new motor with nipples fitted and a Turnigy Monster ESC, pm me--open to trades as well. But not ready to post it in the Swap Shop just yet--holding this thing in your hand just begs you to put in a hull and see what you can get out of it :biggrin:

Thanks...Pete M

[Ub Hauled]

Pete, throw the motor in an 8th scale... just my 2 cents.

[pmisuinas]

strange because there is two or three builds I know of that are doing just this (putting Little Screamer motor in 1/8 builds)..

Any feedback yet on how those are going? I have heard both sides here, "don't put it in 1/8 hull" and "it should go great". Any actual runs yet to settle the question? It would be nice to have a scale hull but if 42" is going to be too small for this motor, would just as soon get something a bit larger.

Maybe the way to go with this motor is a 55" mono to get exciting performance? Thanks...

[Xfactor]

We will find out sooner than later Cuz mine is ordered and its going in my circus scale on 12s.It should fit no biggie. A circus has more room under that f16 canopy than say an atlas. The rails are 5 inches and the motors diameter is only about 2.5 inches. What would be the problem? I dont think weight is all that much of a deal a pound difference between that and a scorpion 4035. Personally I was hoping for a higher kv scorpion 5035 series outrunner.I was trying to wait for the higher kv screamer but it was taking to long. Watch ,It will come out tommorrow now that I bought the 650 kv one.I dont know why someone doesnt just run the thing a 12s and open it up? Whats the point of the extra power if you not gonna tap into it?

[Xfactor]

One thing to remember. Mr. Joye told me that the screamer motor would not be legal in a sanctioned scale event. In essence putting this motor in will make it a sport hydro.I definately plan to push the motor;why play around?

[MarkF]

I think this motor would be fine in an 1/8 scale. On my 44" sport hydro I get 52 to 55 mph on 10s. I think you could get 60 mph on 12s. This motor seems to like a 460 prop. I ran mine on 12s but the castle controller doesn't like to give me full throttle. There is video of mine on 12s Joe took when I ran at his house last Monday.

Mark

[m4a1usr]

Is this the video of Randy's hydro running the littlescreamer?

John


http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=Cbf1RCgziDg&feature=related

[MarkF]

No that is not a littlescreamer motor.

Mark

[Xfactor]

Look at randy proboat build to see his proboat run with a screamer

[Ub Hauled]

I'd listen to Mark,
a 55" boat with the LTL Scrmr would not work.

[pmisuinas]

These pictures are from the 55" Deep Vee I am doing a conversion on. I started with a new hull (Snagged from the LHS for $50 new in the box) and then bought all new Proboat hardware, I am waiting on an ESC and then I will finish this project. I am very excited to see this thing scream across the lake with the new power system.

Scott

Any update on this project? I have the submission above saying it won't work, although it is attributed to Mark, I was unable to find anywhere Mark made this statement. However, I always prefer actual results to theory :biggrin:

Mark, appreciate your input this motor would do well in a 42" hydro, that certainly opens up the options. Thanks again for your input :thumbup:

Pete M

[Xfactor]

Lol

[Xfactor]

I just cant wait till mine gets here. Who makes a 14 s controller?

[K.R.Joye]

Wait a minute, that motor would be legal in NAMBA SCALE competition if you keep it 10S or under. IMPBA has motors specified for 10S FE SCALE competion. As always consult the rulebooks before you open your wallet.

BTW I think the Aero Marine Sport X would be a perfect match for the Screamer.




One thing to remember. Mr. Joye told me that the screamer motor would not be legal in a sanctioned scale event. In essence putting this motor in will make it a sport hydro.I definately plan to push the motor;why play around?

[Xfactor]

Sorry for misquoting you. I got that confused with where you said "proboats" are not legal 1/8th scales.

[Littlescreamers]

How heavy is your boat?? I have people running these at 60+ in hydro hulls. I think it comes down to what you want to use this motor for? I also have a gent racing this motor in a 1/10th scale boat and doing well. We are very close to being out of these motors and the testing is ongoing for the new wind. We feel we will be offering 2 winds one for sport and one for racing.
Both MSRP of $179.99

Thanks
Scott

[MarkF]

Guys I would like to clarify some of the stuff I did say. Radtec and I are both running this motor and we both are running the same size prop. The octurta 460 is the biggest prop we can swing at this time but we are both using the castle controller. We are both having problems at full throttle with the controller surging. In my opinion this motor has a low KV for racing but is fine for someone who only wants a sport setup and doesn't want to go real fast. I get 52 mph on my sport hydro on 10s and I think Radtec is getting closer to 57 mph on 12s. That is to be expected considering the KV and prop size were running. We really need a different controller to see if the castle is holding us back or not. If it is I would add a few mph to our speeds and even more if you can run a bigger prop than what I'm running. I also think this motor would push a 55" boat just fine but at the speeds I posted. So you need to decide if this is what you want out of your boat or not. I still say this is a great motor for the money. We just need to do a little more testting to figure out what works and what doesn't.

Mark

Mark

[bvincent]

Thanks Mark. I think the controller is indeed holding iit back from max rpm's at this point. I've had several tell me that the Turnigy Monster series works much better and they get another just about 5mph because of the higher rpm's. Now that CA Jets is done I will get after a 775Kv version of this and have Mark test it and see if it work better. Of course we will still have the esc issues until we can identify which one works best. I am also working with Radtek and once I get my hull to try out we will know more on set ups and such. But I think Mark will be our BEST source of knowledge on this and he certainly has the ability to prod us in the right direction :cool:

[Xfactor]

Where can I get the motor? Guy at epower or whomever handles your paypal transaction decided to refund me and told me to get it straight from you guys because I told him payment was recieved so Id like to know the status of the motor as far as shipping etc.I was a little bothered because I sent an email some days ago with no response .My patience is really running out on this motor.Ive lost two days in recieving my motor because people expect to get their pay then send the mechandise when they get ready , Naw I dont operate like that. Do cod if youre a procrastinator after the fact.Anyway i need the motor if its attainable.

[Steven Vaccaro]

Where can I get the motor? Guy at epower or whomever handles your paypal transaction decided to refund me and told me to get it straight from you guys because I told him payment was recieved so Id like to know the status of the motor as far as shipping etc.I was a little bothered because I sent an email some days ago with no response .My patience is really running out on this motor.Ive lost two days in recieving my motor because people expect to get their pay then send the mechandise when they get ready , Naw I dont operate like that. Do cod if youre a procrastinator after the fact.Anyway i need the motor if its attainable.

thats easy. right here.

http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=ls-63outrunner

[Xfactor]

Hey Steve, you were out before . You hadnt got the higher kv version yet have you?

[Xfactor]

Just talked to Scott . He got me straight. You should see my order coming through in the next min

[Xfactor]

Its done. I can tell you guys now that Scott and the screamer guys are all that . That man took out of his own personal time to call me and make sure I was straight. A company trying to do things the right way . Its truly refreshing. Thank you guys alot.

X
ps im definately waiting on the release of the higher kv too.

[bvincent]

Won't be long for the higher Kv. I hope to test one this weekend with Radek in his Cat. He got this pic last weekend with this motor in his Cat :thumbup1:

[Xfactor]

Dagg shes airborne ,It didnt blow over?

[bvincent]

Nope :D Go to his website and watch the video :cool:

[Xfactor]

Give me a link

[bvincent]

www.radtekpowerboats.com

[Xfactor]

Thats a 92 inch hull?

[Xfactor]

Is it twins or a single

[bvincent]

No :p It's a top secret 45"

[bvincent]

It's a single. You can see the single prop in the picture.

[Littlescreamers]

Where can I get the motor? Guy at epower or whomever handles your paypal transaction decided to refund me and told me to get it straight from you guys because I told him payment was recieved so Id like to know the status of the motor as far as shipping etc.I was a little bothered because I sent an email some days ago with no response .My patience is really running out on this motor.Ive lost two days in recieving my motor because people expect to get their pay then send the mechandise when they get ready , Naw I dont operate like that. Do cod if youre a procrastinator after the fact.Anyway i need the motor if its attainable.


It was nice chatting with you!

I am sorry for the confusion, I was told the motor was ordered on Sun and I have a friend at EJF handling sales for all our motors but this one I am shipping from here. I had not received the shipping label yet and was told it would be here today. I would have shipped it today as well. All is well now :bounce:

Again sorry for the confusion.

Scott

[Xfactor]

Mark, what was youre amp draw on the x460@10s ?

[Xfactor]

A 1667 cut to 62mm by cdmi might be a really good choice.Hopefully it would keep me under 150 amps continuous.I also would like to try a 1667 and a x457 cupped. I was also wondering do they make a x600 series prop in the 55to60mm range?

[MarkF]

Xfactor,
There's a huge difference between a 1667 and a 460. Read my post were I say I couldn't run anything larger then the 460. We need to see if a different controller works better before going crazy on props.

Mark

[Xfactor]

Yes I know theres a big difference between the two. I read your post before I made my statement. Did you fully read mine? I didnt say a 1667 I said a 1667 cut down to a 62 mm prop. As far as controllers are concerned i dont own a castle so no worries there. Im wondering why you didnt simply run a different one:confused2:.I dont want alot of strut angle on my scale. I want my prop to do the lifting not strut angle. Try a 1657 on your hydro on that motor i bet you see more speed.I can almost ashure you that a standard x series prop will not end up on my scale boat. My experience as well as the shared experience of others I consider extremely knowledgable make me lean toward a 1400-1600 series prop as my selection to try. I also like numbers they dont lie as much. What was the amp draw on that x460?You were limited to an x460 to test because of what?

[Xfactor]

If you dont break the motor or try to break it how do you really know what its capable of?If youve never driven the motor into failure then you dont really know what its limits are real world.

[Rumdog]

by using a datalogger. You can easily find the limits of your gear without having to toast it. As mark said, he would need a different esc to go to bigger props. He didnt say the motor was limited to that size prop.

[bvincent]

Well that's what I do ! :cool:

[bvincent]

I do test to destruction. I abuse our products for months before they go to public. In this case we ran these to over 10,000 watts in the ducted fan jets. But I don't have a hul to test with yet for this scale. This is why we rated it for 8000 watts.

[MarkF]

Xfactor, I dont think you understand how props work. Simple cutting down a 1667 isnt going to let you run it just because you cut it down. A 460 has only 60 mm of diameter and 3.4 inches of pitch. A 1667 has without my prop chart in front of me alot more of both. Cutting it down to a 62 only reduces the diameter not the pitch. If you read my post you would have seen that I did run bigger props and the motor couldn't turn them. You would have also read that I dont have another controller at this time to try. If you dont think I know how to push equipment then you dont know me very well. Would you like to see a picture of my pile of 3 burned up Shultze 40-160 speed controllers?

Mark

[sailr]

:popcorn2::popcorn2::popcorn2:

[Spot Me 2]

Will one of these motors work in a 48" deep-V on 10s? I'm not lloking to race it, but I don't want it to be a turd either.

[Xfactor]

So is it safe to say that at 10s the most this motor would want to see is approx. 216amps?@ 14s 154amps?Can the castle not handle the amperage?

[Xfactor]

Oh i know props very well . Im aware that a 1600 series prop has a 1.6 inch pitch and is made to generate lift. I also know a x460 is a 60 mm prop with 1.4 inch pitch. All you have to do is read to know that. Of course a higher pitched prop puts more load on a motor. Thats obvious . But I do not think that a 1667 cut to 62 is gonna put a 160+ continuous amp load on the motor/speed control. As far as props the octura prop chart shows you clearly what props are for what. An x series is really for monos. Yes we run them with much success but Ive personally seenn better running hydros with 16 series props. Dont take my mentioning of one particular prop to jump on board and tell me im wrong. Reguardless Im gonna try other props than an x460. I mean you wont do it so....Your 460 doesnt do much more than a 457 all it did was generate more amps. There wasnt that much of an increase in speed to talk about it. My personal opinion tells me that this motor @ 10s needs to see about 122 amps to run like what I consider a competitive scale.A 1657 is what im leaning towards.

[Xfactor]

burning up a shultz is easy all you got to do is have the timing wrong. Not only that I dont know how well built they are but if 40.160 means that that esc is capable of delivering 6400 watts continuous. Anything over that and you getting into no mans land I care less what brand it is. This stuff is physics, sure there are better product and worse ones but we use numbers to put everyone on a level playing field and so that we can share data that can mathmatically calculated. This gives you a theorhetical starting point. I never said you dont push it. I said how do you know what it will do if you dont push it. By the way what was the amp draw on the x460?

[Xfactor]

by using a datalogger. You can easily find the limits of your gear without having to toast it. As mark said, he would need a different esc to go to bigger props. He didnt say the motor was limited to that size prop.

neither did I actully Im saying its not the only prop so can we try something else
AB C anyway

[MarkF]

I think the castle can handle the amps just fine. What it can't handle is spinning this motor. Whenever we put a bigger prop on the boat the motor just bogs like it cant handle turnning the prop. Everyone needs to wait untill someone trys a different controller to see what happens before jumping to all of these conclusions.

spotme2, did you see the videos of mine and Radtecs boats running with this motor?

Mark

[Xfactor]

Mark pm me some numbers why go through all this. The timing on that castle is obviously wrong and Like I told you before firmware updates do nothin if the harware isnt in place to support it. ill ask you again is that castle made up of p and n fets or stricly n fets if its the latter you need to be looking at the charge/discharge characteristics of your power supply caps. NOT the external ones people are adding I mean the ones that supply the floating power supply on pure nfet esc. I even told you guys that the dean of the engineering dept worked hand in hand with fairchild semiconductors and we would like to design a esc that can handle 50-60 volts and a continuous load of 200 or better based around your motor, but I needed some specs from you. I cant help you guys If you wont let me. thats why I bought one so i can test it get its numbers and go from there.The esc technology is relevant to the school because of the push for alternative fuels. Im trying to hook you guys up but hey u know the saying about a horse and water.

[Xfactor]

The improper timing makes opposing poles active at the same time inducing cogging. The can doesnt know which way to turn in this scenario. Thats why i told you we have a need for a closed loop system. That would help you deal with cavitation,smoothness,amp spikes ,etc.

[Littlescreamers]

I did not want to come out and say this but the CC esc do not want to play nice with our motor. In the testing done the CC esc is holding the motor back. After testing with Turnigy Monster 2000 the motor ran great and added at least another 10mph to the boat and all stayed cool. But this is a air esc and does not like setting up with a wheel radio. Steven has some new 240A esc's and I will be testing one soon. We worked with CC for many months and many new firmwares but they just could not get it right.

Scott

[Xfactor]

cuz they lied to you hello you guys just dont get it

[MarkF]

Ive tryed all the timming functions. The boat controllers dont share the airplane controllers software. Thats part of the problems. I dont have any data logging equipment to give you any numbers yet. I can tell you the lipos and controller are barley warm and the motor gets a little hot. I would love to see a 60volt controller for my boats and airplanes. I dont know how to tell what fets they use. If you put up a list of the questions you need answered then I'm sure the right people would see them and get your answerers for you.

Mark

[Xfactor]

they cant fix it with firmware alone im not gonna say it again. I deal with bs everyday. castle lied to you to keep selling u speed controls. What do you have to lose letting me take a shot at it? I got my own motor dont need any charity just two comrades working together to benefit us all. Wake up yall.

[Xfactor]

Mark you wont give me any numbers so vent

[Xfactor]

Ive been running them for over 20 thats not the point if you havent had time to test it say that but weve been on a 460 for two weeks now lets move on. 15 years should tell you just use another speed control and when you do try some other props.

[Xfactor]

Anyway the offer is there Im not gonna argue anymore about it . When you can give me some numbers and stop making everything a freakin mystery we'll talk again. Good day my friends.

[Xfactor]

Had to say this sorry.Why would I buy a castle if they dont work? Im trying to teach you but youre unwilling to learn.My modeling friends have many accolades as well who cares?We want to know what the screamer will really do. Scott if you need another beta tester hit me up.

X

[Rumdog]

:hug1:Jesus:hug1::popcorn2:

[Littlescreamers]

Steven shot me a email a week ago saying he was looking for someone to test the new esc for him. I would contact him and see if the offer still stands. I am also getting one and can send it out for testing.

Scott

[pmisuinas]

Scott, as you have run the motor with other ESCs, what prop do you think works best? I am especially interested in what you may have run with the Turnigy ESC, since that's the one I have...thanks. Pete M

[Rumdog]

I will soon be running the motor with the swordfish 240hv. I will report on performance.

[Xfactor]

Everyone please understand that im not saying the best prop wont be a 460 but we need to try some others. No ones right or wrong here. At least Im not willing to say my word is gospel. Trust me when I say that everyone on here probably knows more than I do. Im just trying to help. I apologize if I came off like an ass.

[Doby]

Send me a controller, as apparently your motor took out my 180 HV this weekend on its maiden run.

[Xfactor]

What? youre kidding?I think we better find some timing settings we can agree upon. This is a 8 pole 12 stator arm motor?rite?This motor can easily pull 200 amps if you put a crazy prop on it.People you better start out with small prop until you know what going on. Mark is extremely correct in that reguard. If you havent done any calculations and just throw whatever you want on it the results are gonna be watever too. With 200+dollar speed controls on the line you better lay on the side of caution. Use the cheap china joints for testing. Why screw up a "benz" controller?.Randy reports about 50 some odd amps on a 1455 @ 56mph why would you ever need to pull 180 amps on this motor.At 10 s thats almost 9 horse what are you trying to move? A house?LOL but 4 real that souds like alot. Were you running under 10s?What kind of boat?

[Doby]

10S , 42" Cat swinging a 54mm graupner K prop to start.

This same controller worked fine in my 51" 10S mono running a LMT 3080 12T, swinging one heck of a bigger prop,,,now is seems dead as a doornail.

[Xfactor]

If the speed control is designed with the screamer in mind thats ot gonna happen. This motor wont destroy an esc anymore than any other one will when the esc is not timed right and the hardware just simply isnt there to support the motor. I can listen to the motor run on the video and tell its smooth.It not the motor it the controller. Truly you r speed controll took itself out trying to carry fire in an ice bucket.

[Xfactor]

wow sound like you might have had some other issues. The 3080 is a healthy puppy so you got me stumped with that. Wow. I still dont think its a motor issue more than a compatibility issue.