VS1 with UL-1 FE...Looking to see what run times people are getting

[cybercrxt]

I am running the VS1 with UL-1 motor, Turnigy 120a Marine ESC, and Flightmax 5000mah 4s1p pack, X640 prop, and I am getting between 7-8 minutes run time staying mostly wide open, just slowing to turn around, as its a narrow pond at one end. Does this sound about right? My motor, and esc stay very cool, my packs are warm, but not burning to the touch, and they swell just ever so slightly right after running, and return to there totally flat outer shape 30 minutes after running. My question is...Is this normal? Also, every time I run, I run to the 3.0v cut on my ESC, and when I recharge, the packs are refilling with 5350mah. How can a pack that is rated at 5000mah charge more in than what its even rated? I charge at 5.0a using a Thunder Power 610c charger. I am mainly concerned with the batteries cycle life in all these questions. Should I make my cut off earlier? Even when I cut them at 3.4v, they put back probably 4700mah, so I'm not sure. Is it possible since Zippys are cheap batteries, probably tossed quickly down an assembly line, they maybe ran out of the 5000mah, and had some 6000mah cells and put those in because thats all they had at the time??? I dunno, im just looking for some peoples experiences with charging lipos, and what have they seen, and what is normal. Lastly, with that 610c charger..Does it balance automatically during charging, or is there a balancing feature. My batteries always seem to balance back, but I may have a cell off by .02volts, and I am not sure if thats normal (ex. 4.176, 4.185, 4.182, 4.180 might be a normal reading after charging). Thanks and I hope this is not to confusing. Mike

[D. Newland]

You're running too long. You should be staying at or below 80% of your cells actual MAH capacity (not rated capacity). You will find that as time goes by, the 5000 mah pack will become a 4800 mah pack, then a 4500 mah pack, etc, etc. Stay within 80% of actual pack capacity.

[tharmer]

I thought it was 60%.
-t

[cybercrxt]

Is that going to cut a ton of my run time down, or should it only change by a minute or so? So frustrating..You have the lvc and think its proper, but then you hear your using to many mah..lol, so crazy!

[tharmer]

Probably by half.
-t

[D. Newland]

Did you time your 7-8 minute run, or are you guessing that's how long it was? If your boat is running well, that motor and prop combo should be right at 60 amps on average, so if you were pulling 5300 mah's your run was probably closer to just over 5 minutes.

Run it again, but this time run it for 3 min 30 seconds to 4 minutes. Your MAH draw should be 3500 to 4000 mah's. Use a stop watch.

Lastly, IMO the LVC should not be part of your normal FE operation. It's there as insurance in case you accidentally run too long. Your equipment will thank you if you develop a run procedure that keeps you away from the LVC.

[cybercrxt]

I have timed it over the last couple sessions. I have only put about 9-10 charges on each pack. They always charge back up to 4.2 volts, sometimes a little less, but not much. The run times were on average 7 minutes according to my phone, so I dont have a second counter or anything. Maybe a timed stopwatch would be good. I was just reading elsewhere that a lot of people get that swell at the end of a lipo discharge..Mine gets that slight swell too, so I am guessing that is kinda normal. Its not puffed up, just like mushy to the touch I guess would be the best way to describe it. I will be changing my driving habits TODAY. Thanks for your help, Mike

[Darin Jordan]

If it's any help, we have several VS-1s running the UL1 motors, and I have a WoodStuff 28 running a BJ26 motor.

After 6-laps on a 1/6-mile course, which is less than 2:00 Minutes of total running time, the packs take 2200-2400mah to charge back up... According to the Eagletree, we are pulling upwards of 60-amps...

David's advice above is solid. I wouldn't run this at full tilt for more than 4-minutes or so. Running the cells regularly to capacity (80% or beyond), will rapidly deteriorate the cells and shorten their useful life. When they start getting "puffy" and buldging, then the limits are being reached.

If you are going to run that long, maybe prop down a size and slow things down a tad to get the runtime back safely.

[Meniscus]

Here's my 2 cents:

If you see a lipo pack that is puffy or bulging at all, :ohmy: DON'T TOUCH IT!!! Place them in a safe location for 15 minutes and monitor them.

Ok, I lied, 10 cents :smile: Go ahead, call me silly! :tt2:

[cybercrxt]

I will definitely do that from now on. I am changing my habits today, this has scared the crap out of me! I am just glad I am not learning this with high dollar batteries, or to late that something bad happens.

I do have another question. Does the SV27 45A ESC even have a LVC? I am running my Titan 29 with SV27 electronics for the first time tonight, with some 4000 cells, and I want to make sure it does or doesn't, just for extra safety as I don't know the run time of these cells yet. I will be replacing that motor with an Feigao 8XL and Turnigy 120A tommorow if my OSE order arrives, but until then, its the SV27 setup. Thanks!

[Meniscus]

No, it does not have LVC. The ProBoat 45a does, but only when programmed.

[cybercrxt]

I'm Thinking about continuing using Nimh on my vee hull boats for fun running, and when I get the urge to really try some top speed, run my lipos. Sounds like this could get pricey very quick if I use my lipos everytime!

[Flying Scotsman]

If, I were in your shoes. I would dispose of those battteries in the described method for Li-Po's. You may have a fire or worse, if you continue to use them

Douggie

[Darin Jordan]

I'm not advocating this necessarily, but I have a couple of Lipo packs that are slightly swollen that continue to provide reliable service and good performance. Everything on them checks out fine, they just swell up a tad when they get warm.

I'm sure they are living on borrowed time, but then, all cells are... Unless there is a significant change in their appearance, I'll continue to run them.

[cybercrxt]

I dont think they are the definition of puffy like you mean. I mean, they are not bulging 1" or something crazy, I mean the outside is maybe 1/32" or less bigger than usual at the end of a run. Once it sits while cooling it goes right back to its very rectangular flat shape. In fact, if you looked at it, you could not tell it was even slightly "bulged" It just has a different "feel" to it. I dunno, I am charging them on concrete away from everything, and lipo sacks will be here tommorow. Its hard to explain. I definately need to reduce the mah withdraw, but I think the cells are not ruined. I only have $75.00 in each pack, and only 2 packs have even been used, so I'm not gonna cry to bad if it only gets 30 charges out of it. Just kinda sucks that this technology is so unsafe, and it targeted towards people that have no knowledge of this type of battery. Its definately a big boys toy.

[Darin Jordan]

Just kinda sucks that this technology is so unsafe, and it targeted towards people that have no knowledge of this type of battery. Its definately a big boys toy.

I think there is a lot of fear-hype out there...

Charge them, run them within the reasonable discharge limit, and go have fun...

I can guarantee you that you have been doing damage to your NiMH cells as well... they're just in hard cases and you can't visibly see it!

I'd run the packs you have and just watch them. If they get considerably worse or wont' take a charge, etc., then stop using them. Otherwise, have fun.

[cybercrxt]

Thanks for the calming advise Darin. I will be doing that in ohhhh... 33 minutes! VS1 and Titan 29 time! I need to stay at the house to finish my boat builds I have underway! But, its summer time, the builds can wait! haha

[Darin Jordan]

Thanks for the calming advise Darin. I will be doing that in ohhhh... 33 minutes! VS1 and Titan 29 time! I need to stay at the house to finish my boat builds I have underway! But, its summer time, the builds can wait! haha

Right on.... Just do as David suggested above and double check everything the first couple of times out... If the packs don't get worse or exhibit any bad signs... run with it... Just keep the runtimes reasonable.

[Flying Scotsman]

My, Canadian 5 cents Quote... Also, every time I run, I run to the 3.0v cut on my ESC, and when I recharge, the packs are refilling with 5350mah. How can a pack that is rated at 5000mah charge more in than what its even rated? I charge at 5.0a using a Thunder Power 610c charger.


If you run to the 3.0v cutoff on your ESC every time, you will damage the batteries and you state you are putting in more capacity than the batteries are rated for. I think your cutoff voltage on the ESC is not stable.

Douggie

[Brushless55]

I have several packs that get a slight puff to them after running them. I let them set for 15min then recharge them, they run just fine..
No need to worry about a slight puff on your packs..

[AlanN]

No need to worry about a slight puff on your packs..


If your packs are puffed BEFORE you run them you are asking for trouble. Plus the fact that when your cells puff you are hurting them. They won't live long after that or if they do their performance will fall off a cliff.

[Brushless55]

Hello, slight puff.. when I let them set for 15min they rest and are just like new, no puff..

I have over 50 runs on two packs that do this once and a while, and they run awesome!
To many people worry about this.
I have run Lipos for several years, and not one problem with any of my batteries..

[Gary]

Just my 2 cents but i have had a couple batteries puff so bad that smoke was pouring out of them. They where so hot and swollen i could not pull them out.I had to push the boat under water to put out the fire to be. They where real old and puffed a little on a few runs just like discribed and where pushed real hard in a SAW run. OOOPS !!!!

[cybercrxt]

Good news on my end. I ran both my boats tonight, 4 minute runs, came back, and recharged them, none used over 80%, and all of the packs were balanced either .009v or better, the closest balance being .003v. I think 4 minutes run time is not bad, and honestly, I still had all that punch just like when I first put the boat in the water, whereas running them down you could tell the voltage drop off so its kind of pointless to continue running. So I feel all my packs are ok, and safe. Thanks for everyone's help, Mike

Oh, and I tried my GP3700 nimh packs on the titan 29 with SV27 power..lol, what a joke, the boat looked like a slow moving turd on the water. I think I will stick with lipo power all the way!

[Meniscus]

Know the danger, know the precautions, don't take any unnecessary chances, and know what to do if something goes bad.

It's always worth letting them burn rather than injuring yourself. The batteries and the boat can be replaced, but I can't say the same for you.

My point is, have fun, but be aware of what "could" happen. The main reason why I posted some precautions is so that readers later on will be aware and heed warnings. :smile:

It is quite often that these packs last and long time and many have repeated success with them. I'm going to stop now, LOL :laugh: :blah:

[Brushless55]

Just my 2 cents but i have had a couple batteries puff so bad that smoke was pouring out of them. They where so hot and swollen i could not pull them out.I had to push the boat under water to put out the fire to be. They where real old and puffed a little on a few runs just like discribed and where pushed real hard in a SAW run. OOOPS !!!!


Old lipos pushed hard....:w00t: ya ooops! :doh: