Fine Design Racing

[midwestboat]

Anyone know Chris Fine from Fine Design? Has anyone had him build you a boat? How was it.

[knpc]

Do a search on this forum, you will find plenty of info on fine design

[Doby]

Sloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow shipping and sometimes says he has things in stock when he doesn't.

[midwestboat]

I did, not finding anything I need, I have $2800 into a 44"cat that I had him build and can't get it to run like I was told it would. Just seeing if I am screwed or not.

[Diegoboy]

44"? Can you post the setup to enlighten us as to what you paid for?

[Brushless55]

His stuff looks high priced..?

[knpc]

Get him on the phone, he doesn't answer e-mail very well.

[midwestboat]

I am at work and new to electric, I am not 100% sure of everything I have without the reciept in front of me. I race Maston marine full mod gas Cat in District 4. I wanted a electric Cat and have heard of there speeds and love the boat"my gas boat". The new one is a New Aeromarine 44" cat. 2 5s lipo packs. Neu motor 30,000 rpm. not sure what speed controller but it is watercooled. all FDR hardware. New Transmitter and reciever 2.4 gig? astroflight charger. I bought it RTR and it was told to me it would run out of the box to me 65mph to 70mph on GPS. He new I already had a cat the would run 63mph on gps. It was also told to me it would run for 15 minutes full power. Well months later, I am not where I need to be with my first race coming up June 7th. He is still working with me, but I am losing faith quickly.

[midwestboat]

Get him on the phone, he doesn't answer e-mail very well.

Have you used him in the past? Experiences? Seems to know his stuff.

[jingalls007]

I've used him on anumber of occasions over the years. I dont want to bash him but he can be tough to deal with. I would try to get what you need here, Steve will take great care of you and the people on this site will more then be able to help you out with your setup.

[midwestboat]

I've used him on anumber of occasions over the years. I dont want to bash him but he can be tough to deal with. I would try to get what you need here, Steve will take great care of you and the people on this site will more then be able to help you out with your setup.

I am not into bashing either, Wish I would have done some more research $2800 ago. I was promised alot. he hasn't left me hign n dry yet. I am struggling with the battery set up currently. At first he told me 15 min run time full power on 2 5s lipo packs, and now he is tellling me 4 5s lipo packs. He is going to ship me the 5s lipo packs for free"cough" Am I going to pick up 8-10 MPH by adding 2 more packs? Is my run time going to go up that much? I can probably run for 2-4 minutes full power now.

[Brushless55]

That would be a big jump..

[jingalls007]

We could help you out a lot more if we new the exact motor and speed control used. To answer your question on volts, yes, the boat will go faster with more volts I don't know if your boat will see 5-8 mph more but it's a possibility. I would say take a few pics of the inside when you can and post them on this thread. You will get a lot more input with pics.

[Flying Scotsman]

44"? Can you post the setup to enlighten us as to what you paid for? He new I already had a cat the would run 63mph on gps. It was also told to me it would run for 15 minutes full power. Well months later, I am not where I need to be with my first race coming up June 7th. He is still working with me, but I am losing faith quickly.


Indeed Danny, this sounds bogus and I am not a fan of Fine Design

Douggie

[knpc]

I did deal with him when I first got into the hobby. He does seem to know what he's talking about, he just isn't a respectable business man in my opinion. I think you will find many others on here with the same opinion.
I didn't want to bash him, but you should know the truth.

[midwestboat]

Indeed Danny, this sounds bogus and I am not a fan of Fine Design

Douggie

What do you mean "bogus" I will copy my reciept and post it here, I will also get Pic's of the boat. R you doubting what I paid?

[Flying Scotsman]

What do you mean "bogus" I will copy my reciept and post it here, I will also get Pic's of the boat. R you doubting what I paid?

If Danny Fine stated what you state, you were then sold a bridge we all know.

Douggie

[midwestboat]

He new I already had a cat the would run 63mph on gps. It was also told to me it would run for 15 minutes full power. Well months later, I am not where I need to be with my first race coming up June 7th. He is still working with me, but I am losing faith quickly.


Indeed Danny, this sounds bogus and I am not a fan of Fine Design

Douggie

Gas Cat runs 63mph on GPS, I wanted electric. Fine Design told me the electric he would build me would make my gasser look silly. Hasn't happend yet.

[midwestboat]

If Danny Fine stated what you state, you were then sold a bridge we all know.

Douggie

Was Chris Fine, Brother?

[Meniscus]

Please also include what props you have tried. This could be very helpful as well for others to provide input. :thumbup1:

[midwestboat]

Please also include what props you have tried. This could be very helpful as well for others to provide input. :thumbup1:

Will do, I am heading home for lunch now, Be back in a hour and post pic's and detailed list of everything on this boat.

[Flying Scotsman]

Correct, and I am under the assumption the business was sold to Danny but Chris is still there

Edit

Why, did you not ask some people on many sites as to the setup proposed by the Fines? $3,000 I would


Douggie

[Meniscus]

I think that's in the past. At least it's here on the record now.

Let's see if the members here can help, no use feeling bad over money already spent. It's best to look forward to the future of this boat and setup, for good or bad.

After all, worst case scenario, he can ship it to me! :just-kidding: But for the record I was the first to say it ;)

:lol:

[midwestboat]

12785
Here are some pics

[Flying Scotsman]

You , bought the bridge, if that is the case, I am very sorry for your experience. On another note I was not aware he sold Thunder Power batteries

Douggie

[midwestboat]

are you saying I got "screwed"? please explain Not looking to get bashed, looking for a boat that will run 65+ MPH on GPS. From my experience, which is little, Most people have no clue and the money to make a boat run 65Mph on GPS, most claim the speed and can't back it up. I am trying to post my reciept, says the file is to big, 65kb?

[Meniscus]

A quick suggestion...more flotation! I know I'm on my soap box now, but don't hesitate to put extra flotation in and certainly don't forget to affix some to the hatch ;)

I'm going to let some of the other more experienced guys provide additional input on the setup. Do you know what props you tried on it? To me, that prop looks small, but I don't have experience with the larger boats.

[Meniscus]

Please don't post the receipt. You can list, but don't post. That is a conflict of interest all around for various reasons.

[midwestboat]

12786

12787

12788

12789

12790

Here is my Gasser

[midwestboat]

A quick suggestion...more flotation! I know I'm on my soap box now, but don't hesitate to put extra flotation in and certainly don't forget to affix some to the hatch ;)

I'm going to let some of the other more experienced guys provide additional input on the setup. Do you know what props you tried on it?

The front is loaded with floatation and I took out the side ones for pics' Chris says it will float "level" if ever crashed or flipped

[Flying Scotsman]

are you saying I got "screwed"? please explain Not looking to get bashed, looking for a boat that will run 65+ MPH on GPS. From my experience, which is little, Most people have no clue and the money to make a boat run 65Mph on GPS, most claim the speed and can't back it up. I am trying to post my reciept, says the file is to big, 65kb?

Laddie, I think you are a troll

Douggie

[midwestboat]

Please don't post the receipt. You can list, but don't post. That is a conflict of interest all around for various reasons.

What about if I white out the prices? Not trying to cause any problems, Just trying to learn. I think it will helo if everyone knows what's on it.

[midwestboat]

Laddie, I think you are a troll

Douggie
Thanks for all your help, jerk:thumbup1:

[Flying Scotsman]

Now, I know you are :moon:

Douggie

[Diegoboy]

Boys...

[midwestboat]

12791

Here is the brakdown of what I got.

[Meniscus]

The front is loaded with floatation and I took out the side ones for pics' Chris says it will float "level" if ever crashed or flipped

Glad to hear it! I never skimp on flotation. I like the "bobber" effect! :laugh:

[AndyKunz]

Doug, cut the guy a break. He's asking for help. We don't need put-downs on somebody who is relatively new to electrics.

Midwest, we'll help you out as best we can. Where in IL are you located? I'm in White Heath, about 20 miles east of Clinton (center of the state). I haven't done much with BIG boats like yours, but one of the guys I work with has several (mostly gasoline) boat monos and cats (I do hydros), and I've played around with electrics since the late 1980's. I'm sure we can help you out.

Thunder Power cells are very, very good products. If that's what you bought from Fines, you don't have to worry about them. TP stands behind their cells.

Andy

[AndyKunz]

BTW, I hope that NY Sales Tax was 0.00 - you don't owe any since you don't live there and he doesn't have an office here.

Andy

[bustitup]

Most people have no clue and the money to make a boat run 65Mph on GPS, most claim the speed and can't back it up. I am trying to post my reciept, says the file is to big, 65kb?


I dont think its that hard to run 60 if you have the money and these forums but I dont think 15min run time is at all that practical...if you want long run time stay with gas

[midwestboat]

Doug, cut the guy a break. He's asking for help. We don't need put-downs on somebody who is relatively new to electrics.

Midwest, we'll help you out as best we can. Where in IL are you located? I'm in White Heath, about 20 miles east of Clinton (center of the state). I haven't done much with BIG boats like yours, but one of the guys I work with has several (mostly gasoline) boat monos and cats (I do hydros), and I've played around with electrics since the late 1980's. I'm sure we can help you out.

Thunder Power cells are very, very good products. If that's what you bought from Fines, you don't have to worry about them. TP stands behind their cells.

Andy
Andy, Thanks, I am in Goodfield IL, about 45 minutes from you. Right between Peoria and Bloomington IL. I race in the IMPBA, we are district 4. I was the "first" to get these batteries from Chris. He is not happy that I am not happy but he said he would take these back or he will ship 2 more for more "power" and "run time".

[midwestboat]

BTW, I hope that NY Sales Tax was 0.00 - you don't owe any since you don't live there and he doesn't have an office here.

Andy

it was. I asked for the best money could buy. My Question is, did I get it? or did I get hosed? He said this is his exact setup except the battery brand. Like I said, he is still working with me. Just dis-appointed it didn't show up RTR like he said, I figured for that $ it would.

[Flying Scotsman]

A question and quote Wish I would have done some more research $2800 ago. and now the invoice shows $3,000????

If this all true, you were taken to the cleaners and I and other members will try to assist you.


Douggie

[bustitup]

from what I have learned and observed here at OSE I would say your boat is awesome and very capable of the claimed speeds just not the claimed run times

looks like a pretty good installation also ....I would maybe liked to have seen some
carbon fiber on the floor for a 60-70 mph boat and some reinforcement on the wood rails
just my noob opinion
good luck with it man,,,it sure looks good

[midwestboat]

A question and quote Wish I would have done some more research $2800 ago. and now the invoice shows $3,000????
Douggie

Why you gotta bust my balls man, I whited out the total, I didn't pay $3000, If you have nothing to add, don't post

[midwestboat]

from what I have learned and observed here at OSE I would say your boat is awesome and very capable of the claimed speeds just not the claimed run times

looks like a pretty good installation also ....I would maybe liked to have seen some
carbon fiber on the floor for a 60-70 mph boat and some reinforcement on the wood rails
just my noob opinion
good luck with it man,,,it sure looks good
Thank you.:rockon2:

[bustitup]

Thank you.:rockon2:


also he did sell you some of the very very best equipment money can buy

the hydra 240 hv is one of the best and your motor is certanly no slouch.....your batts with enerland cells are some of the best


I also like your gasser....

[midwestboat]

also he did sell you some of the very very best equipment money can buy

the hydra 240 hv is one of the best and your motor is certanly no slouch.....your batts with enerland cells are some of the best


I also like your gasser....

Thanks

[D. Newland]

Midwest-

What exactly do you not like about this boat? Lack of speed? Runtime? Ride attitude?

You've got good equipment...just need to figure out why you're unhappy.

The 5S Lipo packs you have should be wired in series to the ESC. That would make for a 10S 1P setup. You can really only use approximately 3800 to 4000 mah's out of a 1P setup, so your runtime will be short. 3 minutes or less depending on your amp draw.

Chris sending you 2 more packs leads me to believe that he's setting you up for a 10S 2P setup, which will keep the voltage the same as now, but double the battery capacity to the motor...in essence doubling your runtime. But still, probably 5 minutes max, and that's after alot of testing.

[D. Newland]

FWIW-many of us want to help you with this so you don't end up choking on the bite you took by going with a 10S setup as your first FE boat. It's not the normal or easy way to get into FE and can be/is flat out frustrating. I'm glad you found this board-the people here will help you get it sorted out. Your experience with gas will definitely help, but you've still got a lot of homework ahead of you.

Bloomington H.S. Class of '88!

[midwestboat]

Midwest-

What exactly do you not like about this boat? Lack of speed? Runtime? Ride attitude?

You've got good equipment...just need to figure out why you're unhappy.

The 5S Lipo packs you have should be wired in series to the ESC. That would make for a 10S 1P setup. You can really only use approximately 3800 to 4000 mah's out of a 1P setup, so your runtime will be short. 3 minutes or less depending on your amp draw.

Chris sending you 2 more packs leads me to believe that he's setting you up for a 10S 2P setup, which will keep the voltage the same as now, but double the battery capacity to the motor...in essence doubling your runtime. But still, probably 5 minutes max, and that's after alot of testing.
Lack of speed and run time. When this all went down, I told Chris I have a Full Mod Gasser that runs 63MPH. It was built by Maston's Marine. Chris said he new Rick Maston and He builds good boats, Chris said his were faster. I was looking into the electric and was told by him that his personal setup would make my gasser look silly. I said how. He tells me It will run 65+ and run for 15 minutes. I get it and the first time out GPS 47 with the Octura 457, and ran for 2 minutes max at full power. I race so I need enough for 6 laps in a Offshore class. He set me a Octura 462? and adjusted the strut and went form 47 to 57MPH and the same run time. After about 7-8 cycles my run time has gotten alittle better but not the speed, but not sure if I can complete a race under full power, Chris says he can complete a race under full power and probably run another race without charging. He thinks it was the batteries. he has been waiting for a set like his to come in but they haven't yet. He then said he would send me 2 more of what I have to add them to. I love the handling of the boat. I also love the no or low maitanance compared to my gasser.

[midwestboat]

FWIW-many of us want to help you with this so you don't end up choking on the bite you took by going with a 10S setup as your first FE boat. It's not the normal or easy way to get into FE and can be/is flat out frustrating. I'm glad you found this board-the people here will help you get it sorted out. Your experience with gas will definitely help, but you've still got a lot of homework ahead of you.

Bloomington H.S. Class of '88!
Thanks, Eureka H.S. class of 90

Are you in Bloomington Still?

[Flying Scotsman]

If Chris Fine said 15 minutes on your setup take him to court, as I can not believe he would make that comment

Douggie

[midwestboat]

If Chris Fine said 15 minutes on your setup take him to court.

Douggie

You are just full of JOY aren't you. So 15 minutes can not happen? ever?

[midwestboat]

What is a honest run time I should expect with the current setup? What should I expect when adding 2 more 5S lipo's? What can I do to get more run time and pick up speed? Bigger controller? Bigger Motor? More Lipo's? not possible? Thanks.

[Flying Scotsman]

You are just full of JOY aren't you. So 15 minutes can not happen? ever?

Yes in scale boats, that I run for at least 30 minutes.

Douggie

[midwestboat]

Yes in scale boats, that I run for at least 30 minutes.

Douggie

Is that under full power?

[Flying Scotsman]

Yes, and many will run much longer

Douggie

[Diegoboy]

SCALE BOATS: Tugs, warships, fishing trawlers, utility boats, etc...

[Meniscus]

For the record, the scale boats he's referring to are most likely not going the speeds you are talking about. But I could be wrong.

[red6]

You might want to wait and see how it will run setup as 10s2p. There will not be as much voltage sag under load in 2p. Which will give you more speed as well as the run time. On the castle site it recommends running a 2p setup.

T Mono

10S2P

10k-12k mah

2230/1Y

Hydra HV-240

Octura X457

http://www.castlecreations.com/products/neumotors/nm_boat_apps.html

[midwestboat]

For the record, the scale boats he's referring to are most likely not going the speeds you are talking about. But I could be wrong.

I there anybody here going 65+ with electric? What is your runtime? How big of boat? Thanks

Matt

[D. Newland]

I'm in Az now. Left Bloomington in 1988 to head off to college in San Diego.

Ok-good info. You've got a number of runs under your belt, like the handling but don't like the speed.

On 1P cells, 2 minutes runtime is completely normal and expected. That only equates to an amp draw average of 120 amps. Your cells should have drained 4000 mah's during a 2 minute run and got to 130 degrees...? Cell temperature is important to monitor. Keep them no more than 130 degrees +/- after a run and you'll get good life from them.

57 MPH isn't too bad. I know it's not what Chris said, but it's in the ballpark for the power you're thowing at it and you also have to take into consideration the reliability of one's speed guesses.

Going to 10S 2P will get you closer to 4 minutes with the same prop, or allow you to go a bit bigger on the prop (at the expense of runtime).

[midwestboat]

You might want to wait and see how it will run setup as 10s2p. There will not be as much voltage sag under load in 2p. Which will give you more speed as well as the run time. On the castle site it recommends running a 2p setup.

T Mono

10S2P

10k-12k mah

2230/1Y

Hydra HV-240

Octura X457

http://www.castlecreations.com/products/neumotors/nm_boat_apps.html
Thanks

[midwestboat]

I'm in Az now. Left Bloomington in 1988 to head off to college in San Diego.

Ok-good info. You've got a number of runs under your belt, like the handling but don't like the speed.

On 1P cells, 2 minutes runtime is completely normal and expected. That only equates to an amp draw average of 120 amps. Your cells should have drained 4000 mah's during a 2 minute run and got to 130 degrees...? Cell temperature is important to monitor. Keep them no more than 130 degrees +/- after a run and you'll get good life from them.

57 MPH isn't too bad. I know it's not what Chris said, but it's in the ballpark for the power you're thowing at it and you also have to take into consideration the reliability of one's speed guesses.

Going to 10S 2P will get you closer to 4 minutes with the same prop, or allow you to go a bit bigger on the prop (at the expense of runtime).

Dumb question, How do you check cell temp? Chris has never told me about this.

[Meniscus]

Temperature gun is one way to do it.

[midwestboat]

Temperature gun is one way to do it.

Another dumb question, I have a temp gun for my Nitro Savage X, Will this be the same? I would think it would but not sure.

[Meniscus]

I would think so. It sends out an infrared light and measures surface temperature correct?

[midwestboat]

I would think so. It sends out an infrared light and measures surface temperature correct?
Correct, just wasn't sure if "battery temp" was measured different.

[egneg]

In this video 2 x 2215 on 10S2P were used to get over 80 mph.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i59znIXWmKw

[midwestboat]

Awesome.:buttrock:

[Eodman]

There are alot of guys running over 65 ... that said I'm 99% sure that with the present battery technology and most of our pockets not being extremely deep we will not see 15 minute runtimes at full tilt boogie!

Just my 1/2 cents but "CATS ARE WHERE IT'S AT" and you got 2 nice ones!

[Fluid]

I there anybody here going 65+ with electric? What is your runtime? How big of boat? Thanks

I race a 41" Stryker cat with 10S and a similar Kv motor. First, you need to run 10S2P both for performance and for ESC reliability. Fine sold a similar build to one of our club members with a 1P setup, and he had poor performance until he added another 1P to the packs.

Second, you don't have enough prop to go 65 mph. I need an x465 minimum to see that speed and have GPS'd mid 60s in an oval race. The x457/3 I ran didn't do better than mid-50s.

Setup is next. Set the CG at 33%. The strut angle looks too extreme but it is tough to tell for sure. Place the model on a flat surface and put the strut from parallel to 2 degrees up at the prop end. I run the bottom of my strut about 3/4" above the sponson bottoms, but you may need more or less depending on the hull.

The ESC is probably fine, although you will pick up some performance by advancing the timing a bit, perhaps between 5 and 10 degrees. Don't try that unless you are running 10S2P however.

I don't know much about total run time, but in a ~2 minute race heat I use up about 4000 mAh. That's full bore plus mill lap for 6 laps. You can figure the run time for 10,000 mAh from that.

There are not a "lot" of guys" running over 65 mph reliably with an oval cat setup. Lots of GPS claims, but when push comes to shove...... :laugh:

.

[Tony]

Dumb question, How do you check cell temp? Chris has never told me about this.

You can get this little gadget to check the cell temp.


https://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=8297

[midwestboat]

I race a 41" Stryker cat with 10S and a similar Kv motor. First, you need to run 10S2P both for performance and for ESC reliability. Fine sold a similar build to one of our club members with a 1P setup, and he had poor performance until he added another 1P to the packs.

Second, you don't have enough prop to go 65 mph. I need an x465 minimum to see that speed and have GPS'd mid 60s in an oval race. The x457/3 I ran didn't do better than mid-50s.

Setup is next. Set the CG at 33%. The strut angle looks too extreme but it is tough to tell for sure. Place the model on a flat surface and put the strut from parallel to 2 degrees up at the prop end. I run the bottom of my strut about 3/4" above the sponson bottoms, but you may need more or less depending on the hull.

The ESC is probably fine, although you will pick up some performance by advancing the timing a bit, perhaps between 5 and 10 degrees. Don't try that unless you are running 10S2P however.

I don't know much about total run time, but in a ~2 minute race heat I use up about 4000 mAh. That's full bore plus mill lap for 6 laps. You can figure the run time for 10,000 mAh from that.

There are not a "lot" of guys" running over 65 mph reliably with an oval cat setup. Lots of GPS claims, but when push comes to shove...... :laugh:

.
Thanks for the info, I will work on this and get back with you.

[Steven Vaccaro]

Sorry to hear about your issue. From reading some of the posts, 65mph should be attainable, but as they say the runtime is the issue. Besides the fact that you were told it would run for 15 minutes, is there another reason for wanting to run that long? You can also play with some formulas and calcs on this page to get an estimate on what capacity cells you would need to get to run that long
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/conversion.htm

[Gary]

Look....there are so many things that could be wrong. I did the exact thing you did and called chris for his advice on building a 60+ mph hydro boat.He told me to up all the parts . Neu 1521 1.5d Hydra 240, and two 7.4 batts. Boat only could muster 45 mph. He told me to keep going bigger on props but it only hurt performance. Long storey short, boat now goes 74mph and i am betting on 76-78 or better for this Mondays SAW runs. My point is its the same motor...the same hydra, but more voltage, finding the perfect prop...after 8 i went through.. and changing the AOL on sponsons. Test, Test, Test ...look at it , ponder it, tweak it. I took my boat home every time and messed with something. So who knows mabe thats all you need to do.But above all the crashes , burnt up batteries and blow overs i LOVE to mess with it and make it faster.Hey....some people can put a boat togather and it runs like a champ. Others like me?............................. PS When you changed your prop you went from 47mph to 57 mph .....thats a 10mph change in a stock prop alone ...10mph!!!!!! See what i mean?

[kevinlew211]

In this video 2 x 2215 on 10S2P were used to get over 80 mph.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i59znIXWmKw

Where did you get that info from???? that boat is not running twin 2215 on 10s2p, the reason i knew because i builded it.

[egneg]

Where did you get that info from???? that boat is not running twin 2215 on 10s2p, the reason i knew because i builded it.

You are absolutely correct - my bad. They are 1522's on 6S2P I went back and checked the thread from duncanjerry.

http://www.rumrunnerracing.com/feforums/showthread.php?t=26213

[midwestboat]

Well, just got back from my test run with 10S 2p. All 4 brand new identical packs. Ran 62.1 on GPS first run with a X465, Ran 58.2 with a X462. it is amazing who much weight is added by adding these extra packs. Run time was much better. Should I expect more speed as these batteries cycle a few times? Still not quite where I was told I would be but closer. Does not handle near as well with the X465 prop. First race is this sunday. Any suggestions please send them my way. Thanks

[HOTWATER]

A quick suggestion...more flotation! I know I'm on my soap box now, but don't hesitate to put extra flotation in and certainly don't forget to affix some to the hatch ;)

I'm going to let some of the other more experienced guys provide additional input on the setup. Do you know what props you tried on it? To me, that prop looks small, but I don't have experience with the larger boats.

I agree with the prop being smallish, but look how thin and small the rudder is! I have an Aeromarine 20 cat and it has beefier hardware than that!!:popcorn2:

Great looking boat though...hopefully you will get it to your liking!:biggrin:

[D. Newland]

LiPo's will typically get a little better after a few cycles, but don't count on much of a speed improvement.

IMO, if you don't have much tuning time between now and Sunday, run the X462 and keep it on the pins! Race water is different than test water so use the prop that is giving your boat better control.

Keep an eye on motor/esc/cell temps, time your runs and keep a record of how much MAH drain you are experiencing when running. Report back Monday. Good luck!

[midwestboat]

LiPo's will typically get a little better after a few cycles, but don't count on much of a speed improvement.

IMO, if you don't have much tuning time between now and Sunday, run the X462 and keep it on the pins! Race water is different than test water so use the prop that is giving your boat better control.

Keep an eye on motor/esc/cell temps, time your runs and keep a record of how much MAH drain you are experiencing when running. Report back Monday. Good luck!

Well, Saturday was cycling the Batteries and the Controller quit, smells burnt, Have a new one coming, Didn't get to race, Did get the boat to handle well with the X465. Batt temps where 104 to 107, motor was 170 one time and 204 the next. running between 63 and 65 pending on how wet I run. Am satisfied with the boat except for the failure. Chris said it isn't a "common" thing to have happen. Thought it was a thermo failure? next race 2 weeks.

[Brushless55]

Wow! 170-204* that's warm...
What were your esc temps durring these runs?
Sounds like you may be pushing your motor and esc to far.

[D. Newland]

Does the motor have a water cooling jacket on it?? Temps are high.

If not, check this site store for one.

I was out testing yesterday and there was a gas cat that radared 67 mph lap after lap. Everyone kept saying, "looks good all by itself, but it won't handle racewater!". Sure enough, the next time he went out for test laps there were 2 more gas boats out there. He ended up on his lid by lap 2.

You're getting good race speed out of that setup.

The Castle 240 HV's are good controllers and Castle will stand behind them, but I know of quite a few failures with them, too. With your 2P cells and large Neu motor, it's easy to see amp spikes that are 2 times (if not more) than your average amp draw. If you're drawing 140 amps on average (I don't know this, just using it as an example), it can spike to 300 amps in the turns, launching the boat, on/off throttle in chop, etc. I have found that driving style can help a controller handle the spikes better. I prefer a setup and speed that can handle full throttle 80% of a race, rather than varying/blipping the throttle all the time.

[midwestboat]

Wow! 170-204* that's warm...
What were your esc temps durring these runs?
Sounds like you may be pushing your motor and esc to far.

I didn't check the temp of the esc, it is watercooled and the motor is not. Chris told me 170 is normal, is this not the case. he did tell 204 was to high. He also reminded me my setup is for race only 6 laps and mill laps is it on the power I am running.

[midwestboat]

Does the motor have a water cooling jacket on it?? Temps are high.

If not, check this site store for one.

I was out testing yesterday and there was a gas cat that radared 67 mph lap after lap. Everyone kept saying, "looks good all by itself, but it won't handle racewater!". Sure enough, the next time he went out for test laps there were 2 more gas boats out there. He ended up on his lid by lap 2.

You're getting good race speed out of that setup.

The Castle 240 HV's are good controllers and Castle will stand behind them, but I know of quite a few failures with them, too. With your 2P cells and large Neu motor, it's easy to see amp spikes that are 2 times (if not more) than your average amp draw. If you're drawing 140 amps on average (I don't know this, just using it as an example), it can spike to 300 amps in the turns, launching the boat, on/off throttle in chop, etc. I have found that driving style can help a controller handle the spikes better. I prefer a setup and speed that can handle full throttle 80% of a race, rather than varying/blipping the throttle all the time.
Good to know, I didn't know you can't blip the throttle.

[Flying Scotsman]

Well, Saturday was cycling the Batteries and the Controller quit, smells burnt, Have a new one coming, Didn't get to race, Did get the boat to handle well with the X465. Batt temps where 104 to 107, motor was 170 one time and 204 the next. running between 63 and 65 pending on how wet I run. Am satisfied with the boat except for the failure. Chris said it isn't a "common" thing to have happen. Thought it was a thermo failure? next race 2 weeks.

This is interesting you battery temperatures are OK and confusing with your problems, your motor temperatures are off the wall. The ESC propabably failed as David mentioned due to low and off/on throttle input. Schulze 40-160 would be a better choice for that power and driving style. Is the hull running wet? Is the drivetrain free spinning without the motor connected? Why and how were you cycling the batteries? Are the bearings on the motor OK? What is the motor timing?

Douggie

[Doby]

FD built a boat without water cooling on the motor:roflol:

Sorry not trying to make you feel bad, but apparently this is what they do for a living and to not include water cooling, even if its only built to run 6 laps is sheer stupidity.

I'll shut up now.:blah::blah:

Maybe he thought he was building a truck, as that seems to be more their thing now.

[midwestboat]

This is interesting you battery temperatures are OK and confusing with your problems, your motor temperatures are off the wall. The ESC propabably failed as David mentioned due to low and off/on throttle input. Schulze 40-160 would be a better choice for that power and driving style. Is the hull running wet? Is the drivetrain free spinning without the motor connected? Why and how were you cycling the batteries? Are the bearings on the motor OK? What is the motor timing?

Douggie

Not running wet at all, Drivetrain is free, I was cycling the batteries because I had just recieved them the day before brand new. I thought it would be better to get a few charges in them before race day. I wasn't running hard just trying to run down the batteries. timing is stock. Not sure about the bearings, How do I check that? Motor has dozen runs on it. I am getting I should add a water cooler to the motor. Chris told me the Thermo? failed to shut down before failure? It is supposed to shut off for 20 sec and then restart? Dumb question. Should I be running full throttle as much of the time as I can? Does it hurt the boat to drive slow?

[Flying Scotsman]

Do you have a Castle link and what software version? What is your ESC voltage cutoff? What is stock timing?

As a note I suggest you post your problems here rather than asking Chris

Douggie

[midwestboat]

Do you have a Castle link and what software version? What is your ESC voltage cutoff? What is stock timing?

As a note I suggest you post your problems here rather than asking Chris

Douggie

Thanks, As this is my first FE, I know none of these anwers. As to the water jacket on the motor, I am being told there isn't one currently for this finned motor I have, is this true? I know, I know. How could I not know. I bought this RTR and am learning as I go. sorry

[D. Newland]

Castle ESC's do not have an over-temp safety feature. Not that I know of, anyway, and they're the only controllers I run.

If your ESC is going back to Castle, communicate to them that you want the V1.04 software installed, or have them verify that your ESC has that version before mailing it back to you.

You can run partial throttle, but IMO you need to have a different throttle-style as compared to a gas/nitro engine. ESC's run best wide open. Going partial throttle, blipping the throttle, running your motor on the bench are all things that shouldn't be done...much. They cause more "stress" on the ESC. The more linear you are with the throttle, the happier your ESC will be. Just as MPG will go up in your car if you drive like you have an egg between your foot and gas pedal, your ESC will endure less punishment if you follow this same logic for anything other than WOT operation.

Cooling a finned Neu motor...not sure about that, but I know some guys here have done it. You may want to start another thread specifically about that to get some ideas. I seem to recall someone finding clear vinyl/plastic pipe that fits around the motor and sealing it with O-rings on each end.

[bustitup]

I used this method to water cool a 1515 nue...you could use the same principal

http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?t=6938&highlight=water+jacket+finned+motor

[Flying Scotsman]

We all feel you anguish. Yes, you need a Castle link. On the finned motor I do not know. It is a bit of a shame you did not do a bit more research into FE boating before you invested a very large sum of cash. Hang in there as many want you to succeed.

Douggie

[jingalls007]

We all feel you anguish. Yes, you need a Castle link. On the finned motor I do not know. It is a bit of a shame you did not do a bit more research into FE boating before you invested a very large sum of cash. Hang in there as many want you to succeed.

Douggie

In all fairness it's really a shame he was slicked lipped by Fine Design RC, not his fault!

[midwestboat]

We all feel you anguish. Yes, you need a Castle link. On the finned motor I do not know. It is a bit of a shame you did not do a bit more research into FE boating before you invested a very large sum of cash. Hang in there as many want you to succeed.

Douggie

Typical me, Just jump in and swim. It is a investment that I am not sorry I made. Just learning more and more everyday. Thanks to all for the help and knowledge. I feel I will be very competitive in my district with my setup. I also feel by looking around AFTER my purchase I couldn't have had anyone build my boat any cheaper. I feel I was over promised some but Chris is making good on his word, just taking a while. Here is to looking forward:beerchug:

[midwestboat]

We all feel you anguish. Yes, you need a Castle link. On the finned motor I do not know. It is a bit of a shame you did not do a bit more research into FE boating before you invested a very large sum of cash. Hang in there as many want you to succeed.

Douggie

What is a Castle Link? Thanks

[domwilson]

I've dealt with Chris in the past. He is knowledgeable about boats. Sometimes he's hard to get ahold of. But he will stand by his products, at least he did with me. Here is the link for the Castle link...http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=cas-link

[Apples1]

After reading all the posts i didnt notice any mention of Lipo warming..... in my 6s rigger i can gain up to 10kph with warm lipos and run time is a little better.

if your not warming your batts, your batt life will reduce and performance will drop.

Give it a go, if you dont have a warmer, just use a hot water bottle in a small esky and pop you packs onto that, just make sure you change the water every 90 min to keep them toasty.

[AntronX]

Well, Saturday was cycling the Batteries and the Controller quit, smells burnt, Have a new one coming, Didn't get to race, Did get the boat to handle well with the X465. Batt temps where 104 to 107, motor was 170 one time and 204 the next. running between 63 and 65 pending on how wet I run. Am satisfied with the boat except for the failure. Chris said it isn't a "common" thing to have happen. Thought it was a thermo failure? next race 2 weeks.

You need water cooling for your motor. If you got Neu 2215, then buy this: http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=ham-Neu2215-jacket

If your motor is Neu 2230, then do what I did: http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?t=7827 You can still use my method for 2215, just shorten the pipe.

Your Hydra's are not going to survive long with X465 on little battery pack you have. You need 2P at least. Then how long were your wires from battery to Hydra? Post a picture of your boat all set up, just before putting it in the water. Do you have a thrust bearing installed between the motor coupler and motor case? Or do you have nylon bushings between the drive dog and the strut? Are your connectors clean? You have to wipe them with the q-tip dipped in Acetone, at least once before every day of running your boat. Does your flex shaft spins freely at full throttle when out of the water? Test that next time, look for vibrating strut, prop and brass tube. Do you have shaft grease on the flex? Teflon liner or brass? Best would be for you to record a video and post it here.

Edit: Whops! Did not notice you are already running 2P. Still, post a picture how you joined 4 packs together. Very important.

[will35]

Hey everyone, i am new on here. I have had a couple of boats built by Chris at FE. He is a good guy. Had some problems with some of the setups but we are working them out. I read on the post anyone doing 65mph. I have an aeromarine mean machine with a 1521 1.5 Neu and hydra 240. Running x645 octura and 6 cell lipo. Boat flies. Hit 63mph today with have charged batteries.

[Alfa Spirit]

I bought a Prather S-225 to Chris from Fine Design, very nice job, price is good. He answer to e-mails and prop arrived perfectly in France, no problem.


http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/4763/temp248.jpg

[Doby]

Not sure what this means, but when I went to their site this morning,,,its gone!!!!!!! It was there last week.

[AndyKunz]

It's still there. You might have tried during a problem on the web.

http://www.finedesignrc.com/

Andy

[Doby]

Nope,,,link takes me elsewhere...something about renewing a domain name?????

[JMSCARD]

Site is definately down.... was there on saturday... nothing today...shes gone.

[turbonutt]

I'm on the site right now, looking at the H&M hulls

[JMSCARD]

must have just came back from the dead... I'm on now.... maybe he paid his overdue bill:)

[Doby]

Something weird is happening?????? I still get the Domain name site.

[Steven Vaccaro]

Something weird is happening?????? I still get the Domain name site.

It will take some time for all the servers, all over the world to point back to the correct site.

[turbonutt]

I thought he might be tracking IP's from the forum! lol, just kidding

[Steven Vaccaro]

I bought a Prather S-225 to Chris from Fine Design, very nice job, price is good. He answer to e-mails and prop arrived perfectly in France, no problem.




WOW, I just noticed, This is a pretty old post to bring back from the dead.