UL-1 Power system upgrade arrived!

[LuckyDuc]

The power system upgrade for my UL-1 arrived today.:banana:
Motor: Medusa Research 36-60-2200
ESC: Etti 150 opto

Eagle Tree test data coming soon!

[detox]

The small Grimracer L38 x 55 prop would be a good prop to start testing with. Be careful Alvinsmith burned up the ETTI controller in his UL-1. Do not use a lot of ON/OFF throttle.

[LuckyDuc]

Thanks for the heads up about the Etti. I hope it is beafer than that:olleyes: Perhaps it was the BEC that burned up with his. I intend to use an external BEC with mine as I purchased the higher volt version that does not have an internal BEC. If it does burn up with less than full throttle I know better than to buy an Etti again.
The first prop I intend to test is a grimracer L40x57... it's the smallest I have at the moment. I plan to test an Octura x440/3 blade also, but it hasn't arrived yet.

[detox]

Dude my etti was the 150 non bec and it didn't last 4 minutes. I would try a xl motor with the 120, then you should be safe.

The capacitor upgrade should help.

The L40 X 57/3 would be cool to test also. Let us know.


...

[EPower]

Originally Posted by alvinsmith75
Dude my etti was the 150 non bec and it didn't last 4 minutes. I would try a xl motor with the 120, then you should be safe

What a load of C#*p nothing wrond with the Etti 150 i have been running one with a KB458xl 6s m445 & abc H5 prop no problem that esc will handle your app no problems just start with a small prop x442
The caps bank is a good insurance anyways :beerchug:

Adrian

[jingalls007]

The power system upgrade for my UL-1 arrived today.:banana:
Motor: Medusa Research 36-60-2200
ESC: Etti 150 opto

Eagle Tree test data coming soon!

Your Eagle Tree data might come in pretty useful for this thread.

http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?t=7803

can't wait to see your results.

[LuckyDuc]

Wow! Looks like you started quite a discussion there:popcorn2:

[jingalls007]

Wow! Looks like you started quite a discussion there:popcorn2:

Ya, all thanks to you amigo!! We'll see what happens, now get out there and prove those NEU fanatics wrong with that medusa and your eagle tree data thingy..... or come really really close.:smile:

[LuckyDuc]

I finished installing the new power system this afternoon. Everything seems to be functioning properly.

Changes I made from the stock configuration include…
-----------------
-An external 6 volt ParkBEC to power the Rx and servo.

-Installed a Medusa 36-60-2200 motor coupled with an OSE aftermarket UL-1 water jacket. Seems to fit fine.

-Replaced the stock collet with a Kintec 3 piece collet adapter. I kept the stock collet with the stock motor for ease of swapping motors back and forth.

-Installed a 5mm thrust bearing between the motor and the collet.

- Replaced the stock ESC with an ETTI 150 ESC
-------------

Things I noticed during the installation….
The motor shaft sticks out a bit from the end of the motor can. Shown in pic below. I need to keep the wires and lipos clear of this. I may make a cover.

The front of the motor shaft hit the end of the collet, preventing me from closing the gap between the motor, thrust bearing, and collet. I had to add 3 washers to the outside of the thrust bearing to take up the extra space between the motor and collet. No biggy. Pic of installed thrust bearing below.

I also had to trim 3/32” off of the flex cable to get the proper clearance between the drive dog and the back of the strut.

[Brushless55]

Looks good man!
cant wait for the video..

[jingalls007]

I finished installing the new power system this afternoon. Everything seems to be functioning properly.

Changes I made from the stock configuration include…
-----------------
-An external 6 volt ParkBEC to power the Rx and servo.

-Installed a Medusa 36-60-2200 motor coupled with an OSE aftermarket UL-1 water jacket. Seems to fit fine.

-Replaced the stock collet with a Kintec 3 piece collet adapter. I kept the stock collet with the stock motor for ease of swapping motors back and forth.

-Installed a 5mm thrust bearing between the motor and the collet.

- Replaced the stock ESC with an ETTI 150 ESC
-------------

Things I noticed during the installation….
The motor shaft sticks out a bit from the end of the motor can. Shown in pic below. I need to keep the wires and lipos clear of this. I may make a cover.

The front of the motor shaft hit the end of the collet, preventing me from closing the gap between the motor, thrust bearing, and collet. I had to add 3 washers to the outside of the thrust bearing to take up the extra space between the motor and collet. No biggy. Pic of installed thrust bearing below.

I also had to trim 3/32” off of the flex cable to get the proper clearance between the drive dog and the back of the strut.

Looks great, can't wait to see the results. You going to start with an M440 or similar?

[LuckyDuc]

Thanks!

I have a Grimracer L40x57 3 blade on there right now to test with first. When I get done testing that prop at the various strut depths I plan to test an Octura x440/3 next. It should arrive before the weekend with any luck. I intend to also test a Grim 40x52 3 blade to see how it compares to the x440/3.

And... when I get done with those... just for kicks, I have a Grim L42x66, Octura m445, and a Prather S220 to test:biggrin:

[Jeff Wohlt]

You can also trim the motor shaft off if needed instead of adding washers.

[jingalls007]

duc, my favorite was the 38X55 for speed out of the turns, speed in the straights, and decent temps. nothing was to hot to melt anything after a 10 minute run. another prop that may be really fun for your setup is an X637 0r X642. The EDDI and new motor should take a 6 series prop if you don't get to big.

will there be video on hand cause I'd really like to see this.. good luck man!!

[LuckyDuc]

I think I will order a 38x55 tonight for testing as well. I will talk the wife into manning the video camera when I get a chance to run it.

At Jeff,
I thought about cutting the shaft, but it seemed like very hard steel, and I only have a dremel:o

[detox]

The Octura collet (long version) should fit without cutting shaft.

[Jeff Wohlt]

The dremmel works well on shafts.

[Capt. Crash]

The dremmel works well on shafts.


Yes....I've cut off numerous shafts with mine but get a metal cut off disk...the thin brittle ones that come with the tool will shatter and stick in skin...eyes...etc....don't ask! :zip-up:


Very cool man...I can't wait to hear/see the results!

[LuckyDuc]

My first run results with the Medusa 36-60-2200 and Grim L40x57 prop are below.

Strut depth was set at 1 1/8". She was chine walking something fierce... I think I need a smaller prop for this motor. She was still fast as she danced across the lake:w00t:
The L38x55 and x440/3 should arrive tomorrow. I going to try tweaking my setup to see if I can eliminate the chine walk with this prop while I wait for the other props to arrive.

[Jeff Wohlt]

Wow...54 mph! I think that is the fastest I have heard of...not including Brian's run.

How was the heat and all that?

[Capt. Crash]

54mph....cool man! :thumbup1:

Where was that 200+ temp at?

The chine walk may be that fin. More weight up front may help with it.

It's looking like a rain out here for the whole weekend....and I'm just about to bust to try out my new setup....RATS! :cursing:

[LuckyDuc]

Sorry, forgot to label the temp locations...

High Temp A = Motor can
High Temp B = ESC to Battery bullet connector
High Temp C = Motor lead bullet connector (205.7 degrees)

I plan to fiddle with the strut and turn fin on the next runs to see if I can reduce the walking. It's going to be awhile before I have the new test props balanced and sharpened anyway, so I might as well see if I can get the L40x57 tweaked better.

[Jeff Wohlt]

Love the stats but how do you feel about the motor in general?

[jingalls007]

Awesome! 54 mph is fast on the water. Now with the extra KV and the 38X55 I would raise the strut a bit more. The lifter prop's liked the strut at 1" for me, handled better ran cooler at 1" then at 1 1/8". How did she handle in the corners?

[LuckyDuc]

Love the stats but how do you feel about the motor in general?
I like it. This is not my first Medusa motor though. I have them in two of my EDF jets.

[LuckyDuc]

Awesome! 54 mph is fast on the water. Now with the extra KV and the 38X55 I would raise the strut a bit more. The lifter prop's liked the strut at 1" for me, handled better ran cooler at 1" then at 1 1/8". How did she handle in the corners?

It was chine walking everywhere with the L40x57. I think that prop is too much for that level of rpms and the hull.

[jingalls007]

I think your right, AND maybe even a X637 or X642 int he future? Isn't this sport/hobby fun, constant things to try out and tinker. so many props, so little money.

[Darin Jordan]

... so many props, so little money.

SOOO many tweaks you could do to your EXISTING prop to find out that it WAS the right one after all! ;)

[jingalls007]

SOOO many tweaks you could do to your EXISTING prop to find out that it WAS the right one after all! ;)

Like??

the mo' knowledge the mo' betta'

[LuckyDuc]

I got around to testing my Octura x440 3 blade prop with the Medusa.
The best strut depth setting for this prop seemed to be 15/16" below the hull.

In short, it had a much higher average lap speed than the L40x57 prop (43mph avg), but had a 2mph slower top end. Temps, Amps, and Watts were much higher though. As you can see by the increased avg lap speed, it was much more stable on the water than the L40x57.

I may de-tongue the x440 to see if I can squeeze a little more speed out of it.

BTW. The Grim L38x55 was the worst of the 3 props I've tested so far with the Medusa. It was VERY unstable. I tried many different setups, but it didn't help with this prop.

x440 stats/chart below.
Temp A = Motor Temp
Temp B = ESC/Battery Bullet connector temp
TEmp C = Motor lead bullet connector temp.

[detox]

Have you tried the factory detunged Octura m440? I think you will get more speed using it.

Water conditions have more effect in how the UL-1 handles and it's speed. I find it difficult to get the same exact water conditions every test.

[Drag Boat Bob]

Great data...again!

I must admit that I am very surprised that the 38x55 performed poorly. Was the instability accompanied with any increase in speed or was that down also?

Have you given any thought to the m440? I believe it is just a de-tongued x440. Not sure about you, but my fingers are numb for a long time after a lot of filing.

Thanks, and keep the data coming... :thumbup1:

[LuckyDuc]

Have you tried the factory detunged Octura m440? I think you will get more speed using it.

Water conditions have more effect in how the UL-1 handles and it's speed. I find it difficult to get the same exact water conditions every test.

I have not. I thought that the m440 was a two blade prop? The x440 is a 3 blade prop. I was hoping to find a 3 blade prop for this motor.

I try to do my testing on similar water conditions, thus keeping that variable as consistant as possible. This is normally 30 minutes before dark when the lake is glass with a slight ripple. I might try a Grim L40x52 3 blade also.

[LuckyDuc]

Great data...again!

I must admit that I am very surprised that the 38x55 performed poorly. Was the instability accompanied with any increase in speed or was that down also?

Have you given any thought to the m440? I believe it is just a de-tongued x440. Not sure about you, but my fingers are numb for a long time after a lot of filing.

Thanks, and keep the data coming... :thumbup1:

I was suprised about the L38x55 too. Below is the chart and stats from the best run with it.
I may try a m440. To my knowledge the m440 is a 2 blade prop. My x440 is a 3 blade with tongues.

I hear ya about filing:laugh:

[Drag Boat Bob]

I got around to testing my Octura x440 3 blade prop with the Medusa.
The best strut depth setting for this prop seemed to be 15/16" below the hull.

In short, it had a much higher average lap speed than the L40x57 prop (43mph avg), but had a 2mph slower top end. Temps, Amps, and Watts were much higher though. As you can see by the increased avg lap speed, it was much more stable on the water than the L40x57.

I may de-tongue the x440 to see if I can squeeze a little more speed out of it.

BTW. The Grim L38x55 was the worst of the 3 props I've tested so far with the Medusa. It was VERY unstable. I tried many different setups, but it didn't help with this prop.

x440 stats/chart below.
Temp A = Motor Temp
Temp B = ESC/Battery Bullet connector temp
TEmp C = Motor lead bullet connector temp.

You are right Duc,
It seems they don't make (or list anyway) a 3 blade in the 'M' series for the 440. Odd, that they make the 'X' in both the 2 and 3 blade.

Your data indicates (to me at least) that the L38x55 does not load the motor like the others (watts and amps much less), which I would expect it to be, with the dia/pitch decrease from the 440 and being a 2 blade. However you are pulling 51 mph. I sure wish you had rpm with that setup...

I guess it is possible that the rpm of the motor is up to spec and looking for more load/torque. It might also be the reason for the instability (torque roll?)

Have you tried the m445?

[LuckyDuc]

m445... Not yet, but I have a feeling that it will be pulling way more amps than I'm comfortable with.

[Drag Boat Bob]

m445... Not yet, but I have a feeling that it will be pulling way more amps than I'm comfortable with.

If you don't test, then how will you know?

If the old AQ motor/esc took it, why not the new setup? A short run may prove to be very enlightening. :zip-up:

[LuckyDuc]

I just tried 3 different runs with the m445 and the Medusa motor. Data below. Water condition was close to glass. The boat blew over each run, even with all 3 of my lipos at the front with lead weight. Definitely too much prop and motor for this boat.

[Brushless55]

m445... Not yet, but I have a feeling that it will be pulling way more amps than I'm comfortable with.



I agree, an M445 on your 2200kv motor could hurt something.. :crying:

[Drag Boat Bob]

I just tried 3 different runs with the m445 and the Medusa motor. Data below. Water condition was close to glass. The boat blew over each run, even with all 3 of my lipos at the front with lead weight. Definitely too much prop and motor for this boat.

Oops...

I guess that takes care of that!

I'll keep quiet now.:sorry:

[detox]

The whole purpose of the larger 2200kv motor was to run faster wasn't it. Do not give up...put an air dam under it to reduce fly overs, lower the strut more 1 3/16". Keep trying that m445.
...

[line6]

Ya really don't give up if its just blowing over give it some strut angle. and a air dam like detox is saying.

[LuckyDuc]

I have no intention of giving up.;) However, I would rather find the "best" prop to heat race with in IMPBA first... before revisiting larger props like the m445 for all out speed runs. The m445 generates more heat than I'm comfortable with for heat racing, and race water is pretty rough, even with an air dam for that prop. IMHO anyway.

The x440/3 seems to be the best so far, as the boat is stable and averages 43mph each lap with a top end of 52mph. The Grim L40x57 is super fast too (54mph), but is pretty aggressive for heat racing as well and less stable. I'm hoping that the Grim L40x52/3 runs similar speeds and stability, but with less amps. When I finish testing props for heat racing, I will then mess around with larger stuff like the m445 and air dams to satisfy everyone's interest in all out speed testing :buttrock:

[LuckyDuc]

Well… I think that I found the right setup for the Medusa and the Grim L40x57. The 73.53mph number is legit as the gps had 8 satellites fixed when it got that reading, but it only did it right off the start. The boat cavitated for the first 10yds, and when it finally hooked up it took off like a rocket. Thus, yielding the 73.53mph reading. After that it settled to a 55-52mph top end each lap. The boat was planted with this setup too. I lowered the strut further than with previous test runs (15/16 inch.) It cavitates a bit off the start, but once it hooks up, it is planted. I also angled the turn fin up a bit too. Color me HAPPY. I like this little Medusa motor and the Grim L40x57 prop.:bounce:

[detox]

I wonder why it slowed the way it did? Did boat appear to be going slower after that 73mph fast start?

[detox]

Make sure your prop is not bent on leading edges.

[LuckyDuc]

I wonder why it slowed the way it did? Did boat appear to be going slower after that 73mph fast start?

Yes, it did. My best guess as to the speed off the start.... Fully charged packs coupled with a "sling shot" effect from the cavitation then hook up.:confused2:

Perhaps a more knowledgeable FE boater can explain. Kinda makes you wonder just how reliable the Max speed reading is on normal handheld GPS devices.:confused:

BTW. The prop looks fine. Still sharp with no dents/bends/folds/etc.

[Brushless55]

Well… I think that I found the right setup for the Medusa and the Grim L40x57. The 73.53mph number is legit as the gps had 8 satellites fixed when it got that reading, but it only did it right off the start. The boat cavitated for the first 10yds, and when it finally hooked up it took off like a rocket. Thus, yielding the 73.53mph reading. After that it settled to a 55-52mph top end each lap. The boat was planted with this setup too. I lowered the strut further than with previous test runs (15/16 inch.) It cavitates a bit off the start, but once it hooks up, it is planted. I also angled the turn fin up a bit too. Color me HAPPY. I like this little Medusa motor and the Grim L40x57 prop.:bounce:


Awesome job LuckyDuc! :bowdown:
makes me want a different motor for my UL-1

[Capt. Crash]

Wow...way to go Lucky! :rockon2:

The 40X57 is my favorite prop since I started playing with it last Dec/Jan.

My GPS readings are very consistant down to the 1/10 mph. I feel like I'm getting good readings.

I have my boat ready to rumble again. After a rain out this weekend I am getting antzy. I took my 40X52/3 and did about a 75% de-tounge job on it. I'm curious to see if I can get a few more MPH out of it and cooler temps at the same time. If I can get 46-47mph... I will be happy with it.

Crash

[Drag Boat Bob]

Well… I think that I found the right setup for the Medusa and the Grim L40x57. The 73.53mph number is legit as the gps had 8 satellites fixed when it got that reading, but it only did it right off the start. The boat cavitated for the first 10yds, and when it finally hooked up it took off like a rocket. Thus, yielding the 73.53mph reading. After that it settled to a 55-52mph top end each lap. The boat was planted with this setup too. I lowered the strut further than with previous test runs (15/16 inch.) It cavitates a bit off the start, but once it hooks up, it is planted. I also angled the turn fin up a bit too. Color me HAPPY. I like this little Medusa motor and the Grim L40x57 prop.:bounce:

Congratulations Duc! :beerchug:

The rpm must have been off the scale in order for it to hook up like that. A 35+% increase in speed is truly amazing.

Good job keeping it on the water and not becoming one of your other jets.

Did you use an air dam?

[LuckyDuc]

Thanks guys!

No air dam for that run. Perhaps when I re-visit the larger more aggressive props.

I wonder... could I reproduce a consecutive run if I let the boat off plane and cavitate again. :confused: How do the SAW guys do it?

[Capt. Crash]

I don't think they have the turn fin on...take that puppy off and try it....but you will need a wide turn around area. :cool2:

[Drag Boat Bob]

I don't think they have the turn fin on...take that puppy off and try it....but you will need a wide turn around area. :cool2:

I'll second that!

And I'll even file the flight plan for you... :tt2:

[jingalls007]

I was suggested to try the X642 with the stock setup as a Heat prop. This coming from an experienced FE racer on this site who knows his stuff. You might even think about trying an X637 to start with but don't go over your 3 minute run times, things may heat up a little too much. I love the 6series prop's for speed and handling, maybe give it a shot.

[Brushless55]

What prop is your favorite so far jingalls007 ?

[LuckyDuc]

I was suggested to try the X642 with the stock setup as a Heat prop. This coming from an experienced FE racer on this site who knows his stuff. You might even think about trying an X637 to start with but don't go over your 3 minute run times, things may heat up a little too much. I love the 6series prop's for speed and handling, maybe give it a shot.

Thanks. I will try the x642 after the Grim L40x52.

[jingalls007]

What prop is your favorite so far jingalls007 ?


the 38X55 for my UL-1. I just finished my Sprint Cat build and am testing different props with that today, last night was my first run with an m440. Im about to head out with my X642 and will also try that on my UL-1. I see your also building a MM, nice work.

[jingalls007]

Thanks. I will try the x642 after the Grim L40x52.


im going to try the X642 on the UL-1 today, ill let you know how she goes.

[Brushless55]

the 38X55 for my UL-1. I just finished my Sprint Cat build and am testing different props with that today, last night was my first run with an m440. Im about to head out with my X642 and will also try that on my UL-1. I see your also building a MM, nice work.



Yes I am letting some stuff dry out before I head out to the lake with my MM. :rockon2:

Let us know how you like the x642, I might need to pickup a 38x55 for my UL-1

[bigpapa]

got one to try also on the UL-1

[LuckyDuc]

im going to try the X642 on the UL-1 today, ill let you know how she goes.

How did the x642 work out?

[jingalls007]

How did the x642 work out?

I had time for one run and it was very fast. I ran for 2 minutes and temps were warm on motor. Your setup may be too much for that prop. I just ordered an x637 but I'm selling my ul-1 so won't get to test it out. I'm going to build a Phil Thomas 20 sport and need the cashola.

[detox]

OK...back from the pond. No GPS, but I would say 60mph easily using the L38 x 55 prop and NUE 1515 1Y (2200kv). Weeds are starting to be a problem...rudder would hang weeds and boat would slow down noticably (around 45mph). Boat was very stable on glass smooth water, but once UL-1 hit a small wake it would get very loose (it flipped once). I will add lead tape to the outer sponsons to maybe help stabilize boat better. FUN FUN FUN

ESC temp.....145degrees
Motor............135
G3 Lipos........101

[detox]

OOPS...I posted the above post in wrong tread, but I will leave here.

[Brushless55]

So was this upgrade worth the cost over stock motor and esc?

[LuckyDuc]

So was this upgrade worth the cost over stock motor and esc?

In my opinion... YES! I can hit mid 50's with it no problem, and I was faster than all of the other boats in my heat races last Sunday (They were nitro sport 20s though.) This motor with a Grim 40x52/3 is a GREAT heat racing setup.

I just switched back to the stock motor /ESC to race next Sunday in my NAMBA club (They limit motors to SV27, BJ, and UL-1 motors) The loss of speed and performance is VERY noticeable.... It feels like a dog now:o:biggrin:

[Drag Boat Bob]

In my opinion... YES! I can hit mid 50's with it no problem, and I was faster than all of the other boats in my heat races last Sunday (They were nitro sport 20s though.) This motor with a Grim 40x52/3 is a GREAT heat racing setup.

I just switched back to the stock motor /ESC to race next Sunday in my NAMBA club (They limit motors to SV27, BJ, and UL-1 motors) The loss of speed and performance is VERY noticeable.... It feels like a dog now:o:biggrin:


LD,

Glad to hear that you are satisfied with the new motor.

Kinda miss those "heat" reports on the old setup :tt2:

How many poles is the medusa motor? I can't seem to find that info on their website.

[LuckyDuc]

I'll have some heat racing reports for the stock motor/esc soon, as my other club won't let me run the Medusa setup in the LSH class.

From Medusa Research's website for the 36mm motors...
"All Medusa Research motors are rated for 60,000 RPM operation and use ABEC 5 bearings. For the best efficiency, your ESC should be setup with 8º to 15º advance, and a switching rate of 10 to 20kHz. The above motors have 4 poles."

[Drag Boat Bob]

I'll have some heat racing reports for the stock motor/esc soon, as my other club won't let me run the Medusa setup in the LSH class.

From Medusa Research's website for the 36mm motors...
"All Medusa Research motors are rated for 60,000 RPM operation and use ABEC 5 bearings. For the best efficiency, your ESC should be setup with 8º to 15º advance, and a switching rate of 10 to 20kHz. The above motors have 4 poles."


My oversight; thanks!

Look forward to the heat racing data.