49.9mph Using M440 Octura

[detox]

Today using Grimracer L40 x 57 my UL-1 went 48.9 mph and boat handled perfect with no chine walk and no cavitation that I noticed.
Grimracer L38 x 55 was about the same speed as L40 x 57 and boat handled verywell.
Grimracer L38 x 63 too much chine walk
Octura 2140/3 too much stern bouncing, chine walk, and slower
Octura V940/3 too much stern bouncing, chine walk, and slower
Octura m440 went 49.9 mph and boat handled verygood (my favorite prop so far... motor temp 119, esc 93, batteries 115)

Al testing was done with strut set 1 1/8" below hull and turn fin was angled upwards slightly according to setup board. My new G3 Hyperion 2s 25c 5000mah packs were faster than my older Flightpower 2s 25c 4900mah packs (new packs are allways faster). Jeff Wohlt .078" wire drive and custom .078" OSE Octura collet worked perfectly. I will try to get video soon.

God I love the UL-1! Turn fin area has no cracks either. Throttle was held wide open in turns!

[EPower]

Today using Grimracer L40 x 57 my UL-1 went 48.9 mph and boat handled perfect with no chine walk and no cavitation that I noticed.
Grimracer L38 x 55 was about the same speed as L40 x 57 and boat handled verywell.
Grimracer L38 x 63 too much chine walk
Octura 2140/3 too much stern bouncing, chine walk, and slower
Octura V940/3 too much stern bouncing, chine walk, and slower
Octura m440 went 49.9 mph and boat handled verygood (my favorite prop so far... motor temp 119, esc 93, batteries 115)

Al testing was done with strut set 1 1/8" below hull and turn fin was angled upwards slightly according to setup board. My new Hyperion 2s 25c 5000mah packs were faster than my older Flightpower 2s 25c 4900mah packs. Jeff Wohlt .078" wire drive and custom .078" OSE Octura collet worked perfectly. I will try to get video soon.

God I love the UL-1! Turn fin area has no cracks either. Throttle was held wide open in turns!

How do you like your new batteries are they up to your expectations

[detox]

So far so good...I ran them all the way down to the Low Voltage Cutoff. Boat never slowed down before hitting LVC, but stuttered then died very quickly on pond. The Flightpower batteries did slow down more noticably before hitting LVC.

[LuckyDuc]

Nice write up on the props. I may order a M440 to test with for a heat prop. I wonder how much the results would differ between the stock flex cable and the wire drive setup you tested with?

[detox]

The UL-1 Motor loves to spin high so I am sure the .078" wire helps free up some RPM's. I may test stock cable vs. piano wire next.

[jingalls007]

thanks again for sharing this info. I put a .150 hughey flex in mine with an Octura Collet, bad idea, collet didn't grab flex shaft and boat didn't move. Put back stock shaft and collet, no problems. I will order my M440 this week.

[Fluid]

Why was that a "bad idea"? The Octura flexhexes work great, apparently there is something wrong with your parts. Are you certain the cable is 0.150"? Is the flexhex for 0.187" cable? Did you put anti-seize on the collet threads and cone? :confused:



.

[jingalls007]

Flex hex for 5mm to .150, same as flex shaft at .150. I may have had the flex hex to fat down on the drive shaft of the motor so the flex shaft may have not been inserted far enough in the hex flex to really hold it tight.?

[detox]

Collet needs to be TIGHT, but not overly tight. Tighten until you poot. If you crap you went too far.


.................

[detox]

I puchased a pair of $5.00 extra strong +3.00 reading glasses from Walmart to help see LOTS better while sharpening all my props.

Here's some good sharpening instructions:
http://www.aquacraftmodels.com/accessories/prop-tuning.html

......

[detox]

Today my UL-1 went 50.2mph using the Grimracer L40 x 57/3 prop. Water conditions were smooth as glass with a very slight wind chop here and there. This Grimracer prop is now my favorite because it handles ruff water better than two blade prop. Mike knew what he was doing when he designed this prop for the stock UL-1.

More attention to detail during sharpening should make prop faster. Any ideas?

[Capt. Crash]

I got 50.0mph out of my old dull 40X57/3 this weekend too. :thumbup1:

[detox]

I converted my UL-1 batteries over to Castle's 6.5 bullet connectors. I am using 7/16"OD x 5/16"ID clear Vinyl tubing as an insulator (purchased at Homedepot). I also replaced just the factory male motor connectors using Castle's 4mm male bullets.

[LuckyDuc]

Did you notice that your connectors were building heat?

[jingalls007]

Good idea!! I've noticed my deans getting a little warm as well.

[detox]

Did you notice that your connectors were building heat?


Yes...Plus my Brushless Traxxas Emaxx uses the 6.5 bullets also.

[detox]

Bullets are more troublsome to handle, but well worth it sometimes.


...........

[jingalls007]

soo, which is your favorite prop now? Is it the 40x57 or the M440?

[detox]

I like the L40 x 57 because I think it handles slightly better crossing wakes, but both are fast.

[Capt. Crash]

Anyone detounged the 40X57 and try getting on plane yet?

[detox]

Thanks to Alvinsmith75 recent post http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?t=7630 I repaired my old damaged esc by soldering on a new capacitor (original capacitor failed). I remove the old capacitor then coated end of ESC using liquid electrical tape. Then I soldered on new capacitor to battery leads (yes there is a positive and negative side to a capacitor). I got the new capacitor from work so I am not sure if they make this version anymore (2000uf 25v).

I think these will work also
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsCnlYck6hSqD5NQpID FweZkqUyH0XnouY%3d

[detox]

BTW...before a run be sure to tape down the Nose Canopy also. My Nose Piece flew off after hitting some rough chop. Nose piece floated as designed then I retrieved it.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXVXR3&P=Z

[alvinsmith75]

Awesome! Glad it worked for you.
Caps were .90cents each. Sure beats buying a new ESC. Thanks Brian B.

[Brushless55]

Thanks to Alvinsmith75 recent post http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?t=7630 I repaired my old damaged esc by soldering on a new capacitor (original capacitor failed). I remove the old capacitor then coated end of ESC using liquid electrical tape. Then I soldered on new capacitor to battery leads (yes there is a positive and negative side to a capacitor). I got the new capacitor from work so I am not sure if they make this version anymore (2000uf 25v).

I think these will work also
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsCnlYck6hSqD5NQpID FweZkqUyH0XnouY%3d

What does the cap do? and do we need a special kind of cap?

[longballlumber]

Below is the cap that I added to my speed control. The cap helps smooth out voltage spikes the controller can see at times. I woulds say YES to you second question. I doesn't need to be "special" but it does need to be speced out correctly... Again, I have been using the below cap with out any problems.

http://www.newark.com/rubycon/25zlh1500m12-5x20/aluminum-electrolytic-capacitor/dp/38M3253?_requestid=246709

[detox]

Some say the Rubycon capacitors are the best. Longballlumbers choice (Rubycon 1500uf 25v) is a verygood one.

..........

[Brushless55]

Thanks, does this go in between the battery and esc?

[detox]

Thanks, does this go in between the battery and esc?

Yes...Solder negetive side of capacitor/capacitors to negetive battery wire and positive side of capacitor to positive battery wire. You can coat exposed wire using liquid electrical coating. This .56 cent cap fix beats spending another $90.00 for new UL-1 esc.

...

[longballlumber]

Adding a cap to any controller is a small price to pay...

[Brushless55]

Yes...Solder negetive side of capacitor/capacitors to negetive battery wire and positive side of capacitor to positive battery wire. You can coat exposed wire using liquid electrical coating. This .56 cent cap fix beats spending another $90.00 for new UL-1 esc.

...

Awesome!
It this what usualy goes on the esc? or causes it to fail?
and can you add extra on a good working esc?

[detox]

Awesome!
It this what usualy goes on the esc? or causes it to fail?
and can you add extra on a good working esc?

Yes, Yes, and Yes


...

[Brushless55]

Awesome! Great! Thank you!

[detox]

Today I tried my Hyperion G3 35c 4s 3300mah (4s2p) in my UL-1. The added weight and more forward arrangement of these batteries made the boat more stable crossing wakes. Speeds also appeared faster (no room for my GPS). Motor/ESC temps were about the same as before, but the new batteries were slightly cooler in upper 90's. I checked the temperature of my newly replaced Rubycon 1500uf Capacitor and it was 195 degrees... WOW capacitors can get really hot. I can see why the stock UL-1's smaller 680uf capacitor goes bad so easily. Adding one more should make them run a little cooler.

Ten Rubycon capacitors in picture were $12.71 shipped to my door. Thanks Longballlumber!
http://www.newark.com/rubycon/25zlh1500m12-5x20/aluminum-electrolytic-capacitor/dp/38M3253?_requestid=246709

[Brushless55]

Thanks for the update detox.. let us know your speed when you get your gps back in that boat..

[detox]

Thanks for the update detox.. let us know your speed when you get your gps back in that boat..

me no fit gps


...

[Capt. Crash]

If you think about it get some temps on deans connectors too. I'm only running 2s 5250 30c and mine were @150 degrees.

Crash


You can put the GPS aft.

[Brushless55]

me no fit gps


...

can you put it in the back of the boat?

[Capt. Crash]

Like this!

[detox]

I guess I could mount GPS at rear, me forget.

Running 4s 2p 6600mah seems easier on the Dean's connectors than running 4s1p 5000mah.

[longballlumber]

Thanks Longballlumber!

No Problem, it's a small price to pay for a little extra protection with very little risk invlolved.

Mike

[nate]

Detox, Whats your run time on 4s2p???

[detox]

I try not to run them down to LVC because boat will stutter bump then suddenly stall on water. Then I will have to wade for it. But 6600mah should run longer than 5000mah...plenty long enough for me.

[Grimracer]

The UL-1 Speedo has a SB (Stutter Bump) system as well as a LVC (Low Voltage Cutoff).. The UL-1 SB comes in at 12V and the LVC at 11.6. Just so you know we did not pick those numbers out of a hat.. We have tons of data regarding lipo discharge and also qualified our finding with some of the fastest FE RC boaters in the world.. True!

From our testing we have found about 15 to 25 second from SB to LVC.. more then enough time to get the boat back to shore.

Haivng said that there is certanly NOTHING wrong with only using part of the MAH the batts provide..

Hope this helps

Grim

[detox]

Cool Info...I will test the Stutter Bump and LVC again this evening.

[Capt. Crash]

I've hit the speed bump a couple times and was able to get her to shore before she cut out.

I'm still curious about those dean temps. :popcorn2:

[detox]

I will check the Deans temps this evening also.

[detox]

OK I am back from the pond. It was 5:00PM when I ran UL-1 so the winds were still blowing and water had more chop than I like for speed runs. Second run lake was more calm than first run.

First Run Using the HEAVIER 4s2p 6600 mah combo. The heavier weight help UL -1 handled a little better
49.1mph max speed
Close to 5 minute runtime
Dean's temps 159-161 degrees
Battery temps 131 degrees
motor 119 degrees
esc 121 degrees

Second Run Using the LIGHTER 4s1p 5000mah combo. The lighter weight caused propeller to jump in and out of water causing wide voltage spikes. Thus popping a another cap. Or maybe cap was still too hot from the first run building even more heat then popping the brown capacitor fluid inside hull.
49.6mph max speed
3 minutes (popped a cap?)
Bullets...did not record temp

Stutter and LVC test: Again the boat stuttered then died very quickly so I had to wade to retrieve it. Second run I popped another cap so boat just died on water, but would rearm to bring back to shore. I will try two caps next time...Two caps should run cooler.

Here are pictures...I will try to get video one day

[Capt. Crash]

Some of those temps are pushing it....bad on battery! Good info..thanks! :thumbup1:


Were you using the M440?

[detox]

Were you using the M440?

No...I was using the Grimracer L40 x 57/3

In this UL-1 I have seen battery temps reach 170 using new Flightpower batteries. These G3 batteries run cooler.

..................

[detox]

EDIT: Next I will try to get the most out of the UL-1 by using different prop angles, prop depths, and props. Lead ballast also.


...

[Brushless55]

The UL-1 Speedo has a SB (Stutter Bump) system as well as a LVC (Low Voltage Cutoff).. The UL-1 SB comes in at 12V and the LVC at 11.6. Just so you know we did not pick those numbers out of a hat.. We have tons of data regarding lipo discharge and also qualified our finding with some of the fastest FE RC boaters in the world.. True!

From our testing we have found about 15 to 25 second from SB to LVC.. more then enough time to get the boat back to shore.

Haivng said that there is certanly NOTHING wrong with only using part of the MAH the batts provide..

Hope this helps

Grim

Today my SB came in and 3 seconds later it stopped, but was very close to shore

I love this boat!

[Fluid]

Some of those temps are pushing it....bad on battery!

Not really, good cells can handle 140F+ without damage - the internal resistance is lower at high temps. Over 160F is where good cells can start to go bad, although I prefer not to exceed 140F-145F personally. Heating the cells before running - or running them at an ambient of ~100F - is easier on the cells.


.

[detox]

Today my SB came in and 3 seconds later it stopped, but was very close to shore

I love this boat!

My LVC came on MUCH SOONER than 15 - 25 seconds...more like 3 seconds after Stutter Bump. But I still love the UL-1

[alvinsmith75]

I ran mine today and @ 2min 53 sec with y537/3 boat stopped and then started back up. The hottest thing was the motor at about 125 degrees. What could this be?
here is vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Xnqdq8NkyM
It looks like I stopped but it just so happened to be coming towards me when it happened.

[jingalls007]

you might be over propped. Next run change it up with a new prop, see if you get the same results.

[alvinsmith75]

I'll go with the y437/3 thanks.

[detox]

Could have been the Studder Bump Grim was talking about or...

Today after running my boat I noticed 4mm banana plugs (female esc side) started to become unsoldered. If these wires seperate boat will briefly stop then restart. I will soon switch to beefier Castle 5.5 bullets. These beefier versions will not get as hot as the CHEAP factory versions .

I think maybe the heavier weight and longer runtime using 4s2p caused this

[alvinsmith75]

Oh yeah I forgot to mention that when I put my batteries on the charger they were at 15.6 volts. I will try new connectors and 437/3 prop.

[jingalls007]

Could have been the Studder Bump Grim was talking about or...

Today after running my boat I noticed 4mm banana plugs (female esc side) started to become unsoldered. If these wires seperate boat will briefly stop then restart. I will soon switch to beefier Castle 5.5 bullets. These beefier versions will not get as hot as the CHEAP factory versions .

Jay Turner runs 5.5 bullets on his UL-1, he said you might see a speed increase as well when switching to the larger bullet connectors.

[Brushless55]

Jay Turner runs 5.5 bullets on his UL-1, he said you might see a speed increase as well when switching to the larger bullet connectors.

More speed with bigger connectors, cool!

[nate]

Are you serious..:confused2:

[nate]

Maybe take more heat from 4s2p setup..but no faster..:tongue_smilie:

[jcald2000]

Lower resistance from bigger plugs, equals less heat AND higher voltage to the motor.

[Capt. Crash]

Not really, good cells can handle 140F+ without damage - the internal resistance is lower at high temps. Over 160F is where good cells can start to go bad, although I prefer not to exceed 140F-145F personally. Heating the cells before running - or running them at an ambient of ~100F - is easier on the cells.


.

As quoted by Jason @ MaxAmps:

"120 amps is hot but with in 10 degrees of the max that a Li-Po should ever get which is 130 degrees. Chances are the issue of the pack puffing is due to the fact that your running it at or close to it's max rating for the whole run."

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1046645

After the smoke cleared in that thread, I'm not so sure about his knowledge on the subject nor do I think he makes a very good representative for MaxAmps. All I was trying to get was the minimum recommended temp to run my lipos at and was wondering if I puffed one due to running it too cold.

This is from the MaxAmps lipo care page:

"Lipo Battery Warming Devices/”Bumping” Lipo Packs:

Do not, under any circumstances, attempt to “heat up” your batteries or increase the voltage of a pack above 4.2V per cell using these devices or techniques. Some insidious lithium polymer retailers/distributors have suggested using these devices and techniques to increase the performance of your lithium polymer packs. THIS IS NOT SAFE AND IS LITERALLY PLAYING WITH FIRE!

Devices on the market that heat up lithium polymer batteries can increase the risk of a fire. Lithium polymer cell manufacturers suggest that exceeding 140 degrees is NOT a safe temperature for a lithium polymer cell. At 140 degrees, the pack can become unstable and very dangerous. The small increase in performance is not worth the risk of a fire. PLEASE STAY SMART AND SAFE BY NOT USING THESE PRODUCTS!

Some retailers/distributors of other brands of lithium polymer batteries have suggested that their customers and racers “bump” the voltage of their packs using settings other than the lithium polymer setting on their charger. The manufacturers of lithium polymer cells suggest a voltage range of 3V-4.2V. Increasing voltage above 4.2V per cell is not safe. You should never attempt to charge your packs beyond the voltage set for lithium polymer packs on your lithium polymer charger. Using other battery settings to “bump” the voltage beyond 4.2V per cell can cause fire and injury. The small increase in performance is not worth the risk of fire. PLEASE DO NOT USE THESE METHODS!"

http://www.maxamps.com/lipo-care.php

So as per usual there is a whole mess of opinions and conflicting information out here on the subject and this lipo newbie is trying to sort it all out!

:doh:

[Grimracer]

Please consider

If you are running high load props (like the 40X57/3-or other) you are taking the ESC to its limits.. This load will reduce the time you have to between SB and LVC..

Having said this it will be my pleasure to look into the shorter times between SB and LVC you are seeing.

Grim

[Fluid]

I prefer to listen to the ThunderPower and FlightPower techs, and to read their instruction sheets. Both have told me that 140F is okay. Both have told me that heating the packs can be a good thing. The fastest R/C boater in the world told me not to exceed 160F. Max who? :olleyes:

If higher temperatures scare you, then by all means run at 120F or less. It ruins all the fun if you are always worried about damaging your packs. :smile:



.

[Brushless55]

Please consider

If you are running high load props (like the 40X57/3-or other) you are taking the ESC to its limits.. This load will reduce the time you have to between SB and LVC..

Having said this it will be my pleasure to look into the shorter times between SB and LVC you are seeing.

Grim

I run a S220 and my esc temp is only in the upper 90s, and I only have about 3seconds after the SB kicks in..
Also the LVC kicks in to low.. Last time I ran my UL-1 I had 7.1v in one pack and 7.2v in the other.

[detox]

I've installed the 5mm bullet connectors on the motor/esc wires. I also installed two capacitors on the esc's pos/neg wires. I will also try adding lead to sponsons to make UL-1 more stable in rough water conditions.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXK204&P=7

[detox]

Double post